Optimum Tvan & Traxide Setup

[DieselLSE]

Once again I need the advice of the AULRO Brains Trust.
I have just purchased a Tvan with a 120W solar panel and dual 105Ah AGM batteries with a Redarc BCDC1240 solar controller and battery charger.
The D4 has a Traxide D4 Kit -5U with solar input as per the attached schematic.
According to the Redarc manual, the BCDC1240 is designed to work with a fixed voltage alternator. As we all know, the D4 has a variable voltage alternator along with its own Battery Management System. Also, the BCDC1240 can only input one source at a time, either the 120W Tvan solar panel or power from the car. This strikes me as being decidedly dumb as you’d think you’d want to allow all the inputs possible. The solar on the D4 inputs available power via a controller all the time.
My two lonely brain cells are trying to figure out what will happen when the Tvan is connected to the Traxide system via the Andersen plug. I mean it has been connected and all looks OK, but am I right in assuming:
1. The Tvan batteries will draw current from the D4 batteries until the alternator kicks in and starts to charge all batteries at the same time (subject to the Traxide controller for the second D4 battery and downstream batteries)?
2. As the Tvan’s Redarc BCDC1240 is expecting a constant alternator charge, will it be happy receiving whatever the D4 alternator produces?
Is there a better way I could set this all up?
172488

[drivesafe]

Hi Don, this is just a suggestion, and I am sure others will also have ideas.

If it were my setup, I would first make sure the cabling from the Tvan’s Anderson plug to the batteries is 6B&S.

I would leave the solar connected to the DC/DC unit but would run the cabling direct from the Anderson plug to the battery terminals.

You will need something like a 60 amp fuse on the positive ( + ) cable, mounted as close to the battery as practical.

Thats it. Your D4 will keep the batteries charged while driving and the solar will assist.

When parked, all your batteries will run your Tvan accessories and the two solar panel setups ( in the D4 and the Tvan ) will help to keep all the batteries charged.

[DieselLSE]

Hi Don, this is just a suggestion, and I am sure others will also have ideas.

If it were my setup, I would first make sure the cabling from the Tvan’s Anderson plug to the batteries is 6B&S.

I would leave the solar connected to the DC/DC unit but would run the cabling direct from the Anderson plug to the battery terminals.

You will need something like a 60 amp fuse on the positive ( + ) cable, mounted as close to the battery as practical.

Thats it. Your D4 will keep the batteries charged while driving and the solar will assist.

When parked, all your batteries will run your Tvan accessories and the two solar panel setups ( in the D$ and the Tvan ) will help to keep all the batteries charged.
Aaah! Thanks Tim, that makes sense. Will do.

[Odysseyman]

My AOR Matrix is a similar system and it is wired as Tim (drivesafe) describes.

However there is also a blue cable on the Redarc which is an ignition switched trigger wire and is connected via pin 9 in the 12 pin plug to the D4.
Apparently, if this is not connected, once the car batteries are full the smart alternator in the car lowers its output and the camper batteries may not be fully charged. (Sorry, I’m not an expert on the technicalities on this either.)

Incidentally if you had a Redarc BCDC1240D model it would prioritise and use solar on the camper while you are driving, before asking for anything from the car alternator.
cheers
David

[DieselLSE]

My AOR Matrix is a similar system and it is wired as Tim (drivesafe) describes.

However there is also a blue cable on the Redarc which is an ignition switched trigger wire and is connected via pin 9 in the 12 pin plug to the D4.
Apparently, if this is not connected, once the car batteries are full the smart alternator in the car lowers its output and the camper batteries may not be fully charged. (Sorry, I’m not an expert on the technicalities on this either.)

Incidentally if you had a Redarc BCDC1240D model it would prioritise and use solar on the camper while you are driving, before asking for anything from the car alternator.
cheers
David
I wondered about the ignition trigger as I read about it in the Redarc manual. I've yet to look at the Tvan wiring. But mine is a 7 pin plug, so not sure if it would carry an ignition wire. If so, there must be a relay in the circuit somewhere. Yes, the D seems to be a later model than mine and makes more sense.

[Odysseyman]

I wondered about the ignition trigger as I read about it in the Redarc manual. I've yet to look at the Tvan wiring. But mine is a 7 pin plug, so not sure if it would carry an ignition wire. If so, there must be a relay in the circuit somewhere. Yes, the D seems to be a later model than mine and makes more sense.

You might have a spare in your 7 pin you can use, if you don’t have reversing lights for example. The trigger requires only minimal power.

I have read about this trigger wire on other forums and some have said connect it and others not. In the end I spoke to Redarc, who are extremely helpful, and they assured me it is essential.

If I remember correctly we picked up an ignition switched feed in behind the left rear taillight from the drl’s. When I think about it you could maybe bridge from the taillight feed in the 7 pin socket to the spare pin.

The will be other, way more knowledgeable than me, who could advise you.
cheers
David

[drivesafe]

Hi again Don, can I suggest you set up your DC/DC for solar ONLY operation for now and see how it goes.

As long as you have 6B&S cabling running from the Anderson plug at the front of your Tvan to your house batteries, your DC/DC device can then be “ADDING” charge current to your house batteries while driving.

This setup will give you the fastest recharging system available.

If your batteries are only partially used, then having a DC/DC device will mean your batteries will be TOPPED UP quicker then direct alternator recharging.

But the instant you use any real amount of battery capacity while camping, and need to replace as much of that used capacity while driving, the above setup will easily out perform any DC/DC setup.

I have lost count of the number of customers who have told me how well their setup has worked, especially when they have been travelling with other, who have well-known and expensive DC/DC setups that did not perform anywhere near as well..

The story usually goes, they meet up as a group, to do a long trip, and the first thing others state is that my customer’s setup will never charge their house batteries.

Then on the second stopover, by the second day, the owners of all the expensive DC/DC setups are idling their vehicles, trying to put back enough used battery capacity, to keep their fridges running over night.

While my customers are simply sitting back enjoying a cold one, and this happens even after the previous drive time was for many hours.

It is not uncommon for my customers to have 3 large house batteries and a separate solar regulator, which is similar to what you will have.

Again, this setup allows for the fastest recharging of house batteries and your solar will not only increase your recharging capacity while driving, it will help to top up your batteries while stopped.

[DieselLSE]

Thanks all and Tim. I've exposed the Tvan wiring and just confirming where everything goes. Tim, I'm going to do as you suggest. Each Tvan battery has a 40amp in-line Midi fuse close to it on the positive side. All cabling appears to be 6B&S. So all good. I plan on running the Anderson input (from the alternator) direct to the battery if I can (via the existing junction box). If not, I intend to splice the Anderson input into the output wire of the in van Projecta 240V battery charger. Can you see any problem with this? I mean wiring the Anderson feed directly to the battery junction box has the same effect anyway as all the input wires are connected together somewhere.
I'll remove the Redarc BCDC1240 trigger relay and directly connect the solar input feed to the BCDC1240 input.
It all makes sense to me (which is a bit of a worry!)

[drivesafe]

Hi Don, as long as the cabling is 6B&S all the way to your house batteries, I would increase the MIDI fuse to 60 or 70 amps.

If your two house batteries are in a low state of charge at the beginning of a days drive, you could easily see charging currents up to 70 amps for the state of the drive.

A 60 amp fuse will safely handle this sort of current.

[DieselLSE]

Hi Don, as long as the cabling is 6B&S all the way to your house batteries, I would increase the MIDI fuse to 60 or 70 amps.

If your two house batteries are in a low state of charge at the beginning of a days drive, you could easily see charging currents up to 70 amps for the state of the drive.

A 60 amp fuse will safely handle this sort of current.
OK. But the Traxide fuse is only 50A anyway. Or am I missing something?

[drivesafe]

OK. But the Traxide fuse is only 50A anyway. Or am I missing something?
Hi Don and no you are not missing anything.

The latest versions of our isolators are now fitted with MIDI fuses instead of the 50 amp circuit breakers.

We are no longer using circuit breakers because of the high current alternators found in most new vehicles ( Land Rovers and other makes ). This is because the circuit breakers will not satisfactorily meet the higher current capabilities of these larger alternators.

[DieselLSE]

Hi Don and no you are not missing anything.

The latest versions of our isolators are now fitted with MIDI fuses instead of the 50 amp circuit breakers.

We are no longer using circuit breakers because of the high current alternators found in most new vehicles ( Land Rovers and other makes ). This is because the circuit breakers will not satisfactorily meet the higher current capabilities of these larger alternators.
OK. I didn't take much notice of the circuit breaker box when I did the Traxide install. Is it in the engine bay or inside the cabin? Can it be simply changed over to a Midi fuse? Do you sell these?

[drivesafe]

OK. But the Traxide fuse is only 50A anyway. Or am I missing something?
The Traxide “fuse” is actually a 50 amp auto resetting circuit breaker.

The device will allow periodic overloads, it will trip and then reset and so on.

A fuse in this type of setup must be larger to avoid having to continually replacing the blown fuse.

In a small number of cases, the circuit breaker is tripping too often and eventually fails.

Your isolator can safely handle 90 amp CONTINUOUS load and spikes of well over 100 amps.

[DieselLSE]

The Traxide “fuse” is actually a 50 amp auto resetting circuit breaker.

The device will allow periodic overloads, it will trip and then reset and so on.

A fuse in this type of setup must be larger to avoid having to continually replacing the blown fuse.

In a small number of cases, the circuit breaker is tripping too often and eventually fails.

Your isolator can safely handle 90 amp CONTINUOUS load and spikes of well over 100 amps.
Should I replace the Traxide 50Amp circuit breaker with your latest upgrade (which from the above posts would be a midi fuse)? If so, do you provide the upgrade fuse/holder assembly? I'm quite happy to solder it in.

[drivesafe]

Should I replace the Traxide 50Amp circuit breaker with your latest upgrade (which from the above posts would be a midi fuse)? If so, do you provide the upgrade fuse/holder assembly? I'm quite happy to solder it in.
No, there is no need to replace the circuit breaker as it will work fine in the vast majority of cases.

I have upgraded the newer isolators to remove the few times the circuit breakers have been a problem.

[DieselLSE]

No, there is no need to replace the circuit breaker as it will work fine in the vast majority of cases.

I have upgraded the newer isolators to remove the few times the circuit breakers have been a problem.
Thanks Tim, I'm getting it bit by bit. I'll upgrade the two battery Midi fuses from 40Amp to 60Amp and retain the 50Amp Traxide circuit breaker. Should I have problems, what size Midi fuse should replace the circuit breaker? 70Amp?
And to round off the thread. If I were to upgrade the Tvan batteries from AGM to Lithium, what would be the recommended charging setup?

[drivesafe]

what size Midi fuse should replace the circuit breaker? 70Amp?
A 70 amp MIDI fuse will be fine.

To go to lithium in your Tvan, you will need a DC/DC setup.