Air Suspension

[Andrew67]

G'day

Well finally limped from Barkly Homestead to Barrows Creek then onto Alice Springs.

Firstly I cleaned all three valve blocks and had the suspension start to operate correctly, moved up and down the the height modes. Bingo I thought, then after a test drive the Suspension fault came back. Then in the morning the front had lowered which was unusual because I had not had any leaks in the system previously.

What I have at the moment is the compressor starting up and stopping abruptly. Fault appears and can neither raise or lower

I disconnected the power lead to the compressor and added 12v power direct from a spare battery and it just seems to make what I can only describe as a jamming noise ? as if its pushing against an already pressurized system ? I removed the compressor and it operates fine when connected up to my spare battery.

Before I put the compressor back in the car does anyone have an idea of what could cause the symptoms ?? I have tested the relay although on reflection I should have just replaced it. Also the fuses are all ok.

Thanks in advance for any advice. Andrew

[Graeme]

FYI, the system vents the line from the compressor to the valve blocks directly after stopping the compressor so that the compressor can start next time with little back pressure.

What was the original misbehaviour of the system?

[Andrew67]

FYI, the system vents the line from the compressor to the valve blocks directly after stopping the compressor so that the compressor can start next time with little back pressure.

What was the original misbehaviour of the system?


System was fine, went to leave Barkly homestead and Suspension fault amber and wouldnt lift or lower tried driving then the red fault at 40km.

Came back and tinkered with fuses etc, cleaned solenoid valve and got some operation, disconnected battery overnight to reset. in the morning i got normal height so removed 20a fuse and then limped to Alice Springs..

Cleaning all the valves at Alice got me fully operational, till the morning when it was low at the front.

[Graeme]

That's typical behaviour of the compressor failing to get the reservoir up to pressure triggering the amber warning light then later the compressor unable to get to or maintain the selected height mode (usually normal height) on all corners so the light goes red and the suspension drops to the bump-stops. Stopping then restarting the engine restarts the timers which gives time to get the suspension up as much as possible to allow the 20A fuse to be removed to prevent lowering to the bump-stops. If the compressor has overheated then allow time for it to cool before restarting the engine.

The compressor could be weak but you stated that the compressor has recently been changed so unlikely but possible.
The dryer could be blocked but the compressor has recently been changed so very unlikely.
The compressor exhaust valve could be leaking although not a common fault.
An air-spring could be leaking. Removing the 20A fuse overnight will reveal a leaking air-spring.
A valve block could be leaking at a fitting, either because the fitting isn't tight or the valve block has split.
A valve block could be leaking from under the back plate due to a failed o-ring. I've suspended a valve block in a container of water with the airlines still connected to find the culprit. However the leak was quite slow so only caused lowering overnight, never a warning light.
An air-line could be damaged but such damage usually results in a major loss of pressure such that it is not possible to raise the vehicle much at all.

Knowing the fault codes may help in diagnosing the cause. Spraying soapy water around the base of air-springs can confirm a leak but cannot rule-out a leak.

[Andrew67]

That's typical behaviour of the compressor failing to get the reservoir up to pressure triggering the amber warning light then later the compressor unable to get to or maintain the selected height mode (usually normal height) on all corners so the light goes red and the suspension drops to the bump-stops. Stopping then restarting the engine restarts the timers which gives time to get the suspension up as much as possible to allow the 20A fuse to be removed to prevent lowering to the bump-stops. If the compressor has overheated then allow time for it to cool before restarting the engine.

The compressor could be weak but you stated that the compressor has recently been changed so unlikely but possible.
The dryer could be blocked but the compressor has recently been changed so very unlikely.
The compressor exhaust valve could be leaking although not a common fault.
An air-spring could be leaking. Removing the 20A fuse overnight will reveal a leaking air-spring.
A valve block could be leaking at a fitting, either because the fitting isn't tight or the valve block has split.
A valve block could be leaking from under the back plate due to a failed o-ring. I've suspended a valve block in a container of water with the airlines still connected to find the culprit. However the leak was quite slow so only caused lowering overnight, never a warning light.
An air-line could be damaged but such damage usually results in a major loss of pressure such that it is not possible to raise the vehicle much at all.

Knowing the fault codes may help in diagnosing the cause. Spraying soapy water around the base of air-springs can confirm a leak but cannot rule-out a leak.

Hi Graeme thank you for the response. It does sound like the compressor as you suggest. I did fit a replacement but only a cheap one (China) $350 It seemed to work ok Fitted it Camooweal and certainly improved the ride. Got the Barkly and next morning the Amber light. I wasn’t expecting to get the same years as an original but just. Week 😂😂😂😂 wished I had reconditioned the old one. Maybe time for a AMK upgrade ??

[loanrangie]

Hi Graeme thank you for the response. It does sound like the compressor as you suggest. I did fit a replacement but only a cheap one (China) $350 It seemed to work ok Fitted it Camooweal and certainly improved the ride. Got the Barkly and next morning the Amber light. I wasn’t expecting to get the same years as an original but just. Week 😂😂😂😂 wished I had reconditioned the old one. Maybe time for a AMK upgrade ??

It does sound like your cheap compressor is failing or has failed , if you still have the original hitachi rebuild it with a kit,i wouldn't fit an AMK.

[Andrew67]

It does sound like your cheap compressor is failing or has failed , if you still have the original hitachi rebuild it with a kit,i wouldn't fit an AMK.

Yes I still have the original Hitachi compressor, my only observation was that the lines to the pump and Solenoid Valve block from the dryer appear to be riveted ? the cheap one I have has threaded connection to the compressor body and riveted on the dryer cap to the valve. I considered using the dryer and rings to rejuvenate from the new one onto the old one. Or as you suggest rebuild the old one.

Have you tried removing these seemingly riveted lines ? or am I mistaken and they can be removed ?

[Graeme]

They have collars that need to be pressed and held to release the plastic pipes. The collars may be filled with dirt which can often be washed out with a good jet of water.

[Tombie]

It does sound like your cheap compressor is failing or has failed , if you still have the original hitachi rebuild it with a kit,i wouldn't fit an AMK.

My Hitachi was questionable when the vehicle was 6 months old so as a precaution dealer upgraded to AMK for me.
Its now 11 years old and faultless..

[Andrew67]

They have collars that need to be pressed and held to release the plastic pipes. The collars may be filled with dirt which can often be washed out with a good jet of water.


Thank you Graeme,

Will have a go at rebuilding the original with the dryer, dessicant and seals from the new one

Andrew

[loanrangie]

My Hitachi was questionable when the vehicle was 6 months old so as a precaution dealer upgraded to AMK for me.
Its now 11 years old and faultless..

There were some issues with them at one stage and dealers with replacing them, if its been serviced they are ok but they don't usually seem to last as long plus hitachi parts are plentiful.

[loanrangie]

Thank you Graeme,

Will have a go at rebuilding the original with the dryer, dessicant and seals from the new one

Andrew

Buy a new kit, i wouldn't trust re-using parts off the cheapy.

[Andrew67]

Buy a new kit, i wouldn't trust re-using parts off the cheapy.

Agreed, Broke each one down and have started replacing critical parts, on the new cheapy the dryer o ring was already broken up, its was a nasty o ring. Not sure why they cut corners on something so cheap !! anyway good to break it down and see how they are made up. I may get a decent emergency spare out of it, could be handy for me or a fellow D3/4 traveller.

I bit the bullet and bought the real deal from Roverlord and it's on its way along with a very obscure hose I damaged getting the cheapo out !!

I've said it once and will say it again ! Mario is the man. He tracked down what I needed and is getting them express posted to me. I know if I had spoken to him before buying the cheapo compressor he would have told me not to do it, lesson learned.

Anyway I'm enjoying pulling them apart and seeing how they tick, $350 jigsaw puzzle : )

[Tommy Armstrong]

If it is needed, I have a new amk compressor for sale with the upgraded hose kit. Feel free to PM me.

[Andrew67]

If it is needed, I have a new amk compressor for sale with the upgraded hose kit. Feel free to PM me.
Will PM YOU when I can work out how to do it 😂😂😂😂

All good. I was on the mobile app which didn’t have all the functionality 🙄👍

[Andrew67]

Ok well I'm pulling my hair out here with this suspension issue,

Got to Alice Springs on Normal Height after pulling the fuse. Got red and amber lights at Barkly Homestead,

Replaced the compressor with New Dunlop compressor and new relay no change it just continued to run. Did the overnight test and saw the front left corner drop.

Got diagnostic test from Land rover and no leak in the airline but confirmed the front left airbag has leak, they made sure the software was upto date for the compressor.

Replaced the front air bag and still the compressor keeps running. Very eratic kpa pressure when viewed in the live values on my GAP tool. Gallery pressure hovers in the high 400kpa then plummets to 250kpa and fires up the compressor, repeat and repeat again : ( pressure gets up to 1700kpa then the compressor shuts down, kpa drops and the process starts all over again

When I pull up and turn off ignition the compressor continues short vents every 15/20 seconds or so for a while till the car drops down on the left side

I've taken out the reservoir and water tested it for leaks pumped about 100psi into it but nothing, it looks reasonably new.

Replaced the reservoir valve block and all the voss connectors,

The compressor is brand new

The front left air bag is brand new

First Suspension fault which has now gone,




C1130-66 (6C) Air spring air supply - Algorithm based failure - signal has too many transitions/events
( on 24-08-2021 11:28:30 at 188542 km )


Latest fault today is "Pressure not reducing when venting gallery"

Any pointers would be very much appreciated before said D3 end its life in a very deep quarry : )

[Graeme]

When I pull up and turn off ignition the compressor continues short vents every 15/20 seconds or so for a while till the car drops down on the left sideI would test again with the 20A fuse removed but remove it before switching off the ignition (ie prevent the suspension ecu from opening any valves) to determine if there is a leak or if the suspension ecu is making a height adjustment.

What's the fault code for the pressure not reducing when venting gallery?

Edit: I found the code. Check that the pipe from the reservoir valve haven't been transposed.

C1A1364 Pressure Does Not Decrease When Venting Gallery
Exhaust valve stuck closed
Exhaust valve does not hold minimum retention pressure
Gallery pipe blocked/damaged
Pressure sensor fault
Air suspension exhaust silencer blocked/restricted
Air suspension exhaust pipe blocked/damaged
Reservoir valve block pipes incorrectly installed (unions reversed)
Refer to the guided diagnostic routine for this code on the
approved diagnostic system. Check the Air suspension exhaust
pipe and silencer for blockage/restriction. Check the reservoir
valve block pipes for correct routing and installation.

[Andrew67]

I would test again with the 20A fuse removed but remove it before switching off the ignition (ie prevent the suspension ecu from opening any valves) to determine if there is a leak or if the suspension ecu is making a height adjustment.

What's the fault code for the pressure not reducing when venting gallery?

Edit: I found the code. Check that the pipe from the reservoir valve haven't been transposed.

C1A1364 Pressure Does Not Decrease When Venting Gallery
Exhaust valve stuck closed
Exhaust valve does not hold minimum retention pressure
Gallery pipe blocked/damaged
Pressure sensor fault
Air suspension exhaust silencer blocked/restricted
Air suspension exhaust pipe blocked/damaged
Reservoir valve block pipes incorrectly installed (unions reversed)
Refer to the guided diagnostic routine for this code on the
approved diagnostic system. Check the Air suspension exhaust
pipe and silencer for blockage/restriction. Check the reservoir
valve block pipes for correct routing and installation.

I have removed the air filter and checked pipe for any signs of wear and its good with no blockage. The air filter foam was basically rotten and crumbling so I will source a new filter. However I don't think it would have got past the cloth filter at the bottom.

Having a spot of trouble removing the air intake silencer as I would like to check for contamination, seemed reasonably straight forward however what looks to be the petrol overflow container is restricting pulling the silencer out ? do I need to remove/disconnect this overflow container to remove the silencer ? Thank you : )

[Graeme]

Sorry, I'm of no help there. I don't recall seeing my now-gone D4's silencer although I expect that I did and the workshop manual doesn't say where it is mounted, let alone on what has to be removed to extract it.

[Graeme]

The WSM states that the evaporative canister must be removed. (further along from where I first stopped)

[Andrew67]

The WSM states that the evaporative canister must be removed. (further along from where I first stopped)


Yes it did need removing as it was just way too tight to get the silencer past the cannister , you could possibly force it down below the silencer but its a strain on the connections.

Anyway I did remove the Emissions cannister and the connections ( 3 of them ) need soaking in WD40 or very soapy water as they are tight as, very awkward to remove but it has to come out.

Silencer cannister is out and will take a look at it tomorrow and check all the lines. Cannister does look a little tired : )

[Andrew67]

Hi members,

Thought I would post an update and hopefully help another member in the future,

After a number of issues the front left airbag needed replacing and this was a very easy job so if your reasonably mechanical I would fit your own. Here's where the real problem came in, I was getting continual venting from the compressor exhaust valve till the D3 hit the bump stops. On the GAP tools live values the pressure would not hold, very erratic, pressure up but the shoot down to mid 200kpa then the compressor would kick in, kept repeating the process. Then the compressor would do a large dump of air when I came to a stop and turned her off.

So I replaced the central reservoir valve block having found dessicant powder in the pressure valve. The problem remained. So I went back to the beginning of the system and removed and checked the reservoir again very easy to remove and I also checked the line to the reservoir block and this was all good.

I had just replaced the compressor with a Dunlop aftermarket so this was good also. So up to that point it was all working. I really had suspected the reservoir valve but this wasn't the problem.

So I went to the next part in the line up and removed the silencer and air filter, this is a total disaster of a job and I would not do this again I would just blow the lines in situ. The air filter is in a ridiculous location and I altered this setup slightly to give better access for future service. My air filter was in need of replacement as the sponge inside had broken down.

I changed the rear air filter for a quality K/N type, pushes over the rear air hose and you can leave it directly behind the rear left hatch for easy cleaning. Its original location up behind the rear quarter light is just plain ridiculous for access. Putting it back there is nigh on impossible.

Now I went to each valve block starting with the front which is easy to get to and work on. On closer inspection ( I have already had these out ) the very small rubber o rings had deteriorated so I changed them over. You dont need to order the sets online if your stuck somewhere you can if possible go to a decent engineering place or the like and they will most likely have the same o rings or at least the critical ones. However keeping a rebuild kit in your D3 is a smart idea. Checked the rear valve and the same , not quite as bad but on the way so I replaced the guilty o rings. I'm doing the complete rebuild on the valves now. This was the culprit, immediately the pressure was smoother on the GAP tool, the system went through a couple of cycles which I presume is to build up the reservoir pressure. Once it was at 1600/1700kpa it settled down held right of 330kpa and no more venting only the one D3 fart as its known. The ride is far better now these valves have all been rebuilt. So after all that it was some little rubber o rings with a value of a $ so if your getting some air leaks and done the overnight tests to see if its an airbag then overhaul your valves if you know they haven't been done for a while if ever. Very easy and also a cheap job , I would recommend this as part of your upkeep/servicing.

When replacing front airbag I used a quality push in connector because supporting the airbag while trying to thread the Voss connector in such a tight space is a fiddly job because you cant get enough slack on the air line to have the air bag low enough for ease of access.

Also put quality push in connectors on the rear valve block as it too is very fiddly trying to screw Voss connectors in without crossing the plastic valve body thread.

If you haven't had your inside wheel arch covers off for a while ?? then take them out.....blow your mind how much **** accumulates behind those things : ) mine must be 20 kilos lighter now with all the crap I removed.

Hope this helps some other unfortunate soul like me,

[DiscoJeffster]

Can you elaborate on what connectors you went with instead of VOSS?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Replaced all 4 air struts at 210000km, next is front LCAs and sway bar tie rods with hd items.

Air Comp (hitachi) has had a full rebuild and alloy cap. I don't have any air suspension error codes, and car does not drop on any corner even after a week of parked up, so I think all is ok. it was however interesting to read improved ride when reading about the valve block rebuild.

Would be good to know o ring sizes all round to build a bit of an emergency kit...

[DiscoJeffster]

Replaced all 4 air struts at 210000km, next is front LCAs and sway bar tie rods with hd items.

Air Comp (hitachi) has had a full rebuild and alloy cap. I don't have any air suspension error codes, and car does not drop on any corner even after a week of parked up, so I think all is ok. it was however interesting to read improved ride when reading about the valve block rebuild.

Would be good to know o ring sizes all round to build a bit of an emergency kit...

Just buy this

https://4x4airseals.com/product/land-rover-l322-range-rover-discovery-3-4-r-r-sport-valve-block-solenoids-oring-repair-kit

[BradC]

Just buy this

https://4x4airseals.com/product/land-rover-l322-range-rover-discovery-3-4-r-r-sport-valve-block-solenoids-oring-repair-kit

Mine arrived yesterday along with the drier kit and new end cap.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Just buy this

Land Rover L322 Range Rover Discovery 3 4 R R Sport Valve Block Solenoids Oring Repair kit - 4x4 Air Seals (https://4x4airseals.com/product/land-rover-l322-range-rover-discovery-3-4-r-r-sport-valve-block-solenoids-oring-repair-kit)

Cheers DJ, will do

[loanrangie]

Just buy this

https://4x4airseals.com/product/land-rover-l322-range-rover-discovery-3-4-r-r-sport-valve-block-solenoids-oring-repair-kit

about $5 worth of o-rings there, some one buy the kit then replicate it.

[PerthDisco]

about $5 worth of o-rings there, some one buy the kit then replicate it.

Oh but the joy of having every single piece correct and delivered to your door. Priceless.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Oh but the joy of having every single piece correct and delivered to your door. Priceless.

No, not 'priceless' about $66 if my PayPal account is correct. Bit steep for some o rings, but cheaper than remote recovery. Mine are now 10yo, so cost per year $6.6 or $1.65 pet corner per year isn't too bad

[BradC]

about $5 worth of o-rings there, some one buy the kit then replicate it.

I'm happy to pay the 30 bucks and reward them for actually making it available, documenting it and supporting their stuff.

[DiscoJeffster]

I'm happy to pay the 30 bucks and reward them for actually making it available, documenting it and supporting their stuff.

Same

[BradC]

about $5 worth of o-rings there, some one buy the kit then replicate it.

Dimensions are here. Go your hardest.

Austausch vorderer Ventilblock? (https://www.blacklandy.eu/blboard/forum/showthread.php?134473-Austausch-vorderer-Ventilblock&p=1392269&viewfull=1#post1392269)

[Celtoid]

Hi members,

Thought I would post an update and hopefully help another member in the future,

After a number of issues the front left airbag needed replacing and this was a very easy job so if your reasonably mechanical I would fit your own. Here's where the real problem came in, I was getting continual venting from the compressor exhaust valve till the D3 hit the bump stops. On the GAP tools live values the pressure would not hold, very erratic, pressure up but the shoot down to mid 200kpa then the compressor would kick in, kept repeating the process. Then the compressor would do a large dump of air when I came to a stop and turned her off.

So I replaced the central reservoir valve block having found dessicant powder in the pressure valve. The problem remained. So I went back to the beginning of the system and removed and checked the reservoir again very easy to remove and I also checked the line to the reservoir block and this was all good.

I had just replaced the compressor with a Dunlop aftermarket so this was good also. So up to that point it was all working. I really had suspected the reservoir valve but this wasn't the problem.

So I went to the next part in the line up and removed the silencer and air filter, this is a total disaster of a job and I would not do this again I would just blow the lines in situ. The air filter is in a ridiculous location and I altered this setup slightly to give better access for future service. My air filter was in need of replacement as the sponge inside had broken down.

I changed the rear air filter for a quality K/N type, pushes over the rear air hose and you can leave it directly behind the rear left hatch for easy cleaning. Its original location up behind the rear quarter light is just plain ridiculous for access. Putting it back there is nigh on impossible.

Now I went to each valve block starting with the front which is easy to get to and work on. On closer inspection ( I have already had these out ) the very small rubber o rings had deteriorated so I changed them over. You dont need to order the sets online if your stuck somewhere you can if possible go to a decent engineering place or the like and they will most likely have the same o rings or at least the critical ones. However keeping a rebuild kit in your D3 is a smart idea. Checked the rear valve and the same , not quite as bad but on the way so I replaced the guilty o rings. I'm doing the complete rebuild on the valves now. This was the culprit, immediately the pressure was smoother on the GAP tool, the system went through a couple of cycles which I presume is to build up the reservoir pressure. Once it was at 1600/1700kpa it settled down held right of 330kpa and no more venting only the one D3 fart as its known. The ride is far better now these valves have all been rebuilt. So after all that it was some little rubber o rings with a value of a $ so if your getting some air leaks and done the overnight tests to see if its an airbag then overhaul your valves if you know they haven't been done for a while if ever. Very easy and also a cheap job , I would recommend this as part of your upkeep/servicing.

When replacing front airbag I used a quality push in connector because supporting the airbag while trying to thread the Voss connector in such a tight space is a fiddly job because you cant get enough slack on the air line to have the air bag low enough for ease of access.

Also put quality push in connectors on the rear valve block as it too is very fiddly trying to screw Voss connectors in without crossing the plastic valve body thread.

If you haven't had your inside wheel arch covers off for a while ?? then take them out.....blow your mind how much **** accumulates behind those things : ) mine must be 20 kilos lighter now with all the crap I removed.

Hope this helps some other unfortunate soul like me,

Great news mate. :thumbsup:

Question ... are you towing a workshop? Sounded like you have what it takes to rebuild the whole car [bigrolf]

Cheers.

[Andrew67]

Replaced all 4 air struts at 210000km, next is front LCAs and sway bar tie rods with hd items.

Air Comp (hitachi) has had a full rebuild and alloy cap. I don't have any air suspension error codes, and car does not drop on any corner even after a week of parked up, so I think all is ok. it was however interesting to read improved ride when reading about the valve block rebuild.

Would be good to know o ring sizes all round to build a bit of an emergency kit...


4x4 air seals kit, but if not then dismantle a valve and take the o rings to a decent engineering shop or as I did CBC bearings in Alice, you will get the critical ones that seal the air inside the valves.

[Andrew67]

Great news mate. :thumbsup:

Question ... are you towing a workshop? Sounded like you have what it takes to rebuild the whole car [bigrolf]

Cheers.

I do now : ) I've certainly got a good range of critical spares if I need them

[Andrew67]

Can you elaborate on what connectors you went with instead of VOSS?

A company called HOSETECH in Alice Springs supply them, very nice quality I will get an accurate name for them

They have a 6mm push in connection ( HOSETECH also supply the hose if you need some spare ) the thread is same as the Voss obviously.

Will take some pictures of mine, I have now tested them over a 1,000kms and they have held with no problems.

[Andrew67]

173496173497173498173499
Can you elaborate on what connectors you went with instead of VOSS?

The nickel plated push in connectors are really nice quality, already with PTF tape, they retail for $4 each,

Hosetech also supply 6mm tube and its good to keep a few meters on board, $2 a meter

The black plastic T and straight connectors are handy in an emergency or use to setup an individual inflate system for the whole system or individual set up for each airbag. Less than $3 each from memory

The VOSS to CONNECTION to SCHRAEDER was my setup to inflate the reservoir to test it. Also you could use this to setup individual inflation of each airbag for emergency OR permanent.

I'm sure plenty of place would stock these I happened to go to HOSETECH in Alice Springs and they were very helpful and I'm sure they would post.

Hope this helps Andrew67