Defender 2012 Stolen, rebirthed, rego'd, Gov dept not interested

[DazzaTD5]

So I'm not going into great details of vehicle details or owner, so a sort of short story mostly in point form.

*I picked up some oddities of a Defender in my workshop recently and the end result it's a stolen vehicle that has been re-birthed.
*I know this as I'm a bit of a rivet counter when it comes to Defenders.

*Its VIN plates say its a 2008 2.4 its blue with a black roof (VIN plate, VIN on chassis, the rego)
*Doing a VIN decode, says its a 2008, white on white (yes vin decodes are only a there abouts type thing)
*Everything on it is a 2012 2.2 (apart from the items above)
*Engine, cast manufacture numbers on transfer case, gearbox, diffs etc etc all with 2012 marks, the adaptor shaft housing is a later 2.2 that has a serial ending in AB (early 2.4 had a AA serial), lower door seals are later 2011 onwards, fuse box under drivers seat is a 2.2, bonnet release is a later 2.2 on right hand side of steering wheel, fuel tank, breather location, fuel lift pump is a 2.2, the harness with the inertia switch under bonnet is a 2.2

*Engine ECU VIN is a 2012 2.2
*Doing a VIN decode on the VIN from ECU, says its a 2012 blue on white (ref "on white" is roof colour)
*REVS check on the ECU VIN says stolen in W.A 2013 with a Police WA report number.
*Doing a NSW check on the NSW plates (its came from NSW) says it was first reg'd in NSW JAN 2021 for 3 months by a motor dealer. (its got a new owner back in W.A)

*Yes the 2012 2.2 that was stolen could have been recovered, sold to a wreckers and a Defender enthusiast could have bought it and put all the 2012 2.2 goodness on his/her 2008 (white) Defender (including the blue panels?)

*BUT...the chassis on this 2008 (thats all blue now remember) has had the complete u-section where the VIN is stamped on the chassis cut out and has a new u-section welded in which bares the VIN of the VIN plate (the white 2008 Defender). There are grind marks where someone has slipped cutting it out and there is the section by the power steering box that hasnt been welded, making the cut out clearly visible.

*I printed all this info and went to the local Police who said (para-phrasing) "not our job we cant look at it any further", "as its been inspected in NSW and has passed" "yes something may look suspicious"

*I did say well the fact that it passed a inspection in NSW says the inspector is either corrupt or incompetent - Police reply: cricket sound.
*And the VIN plate that had been clearly removed and re-rivetted back? - Police reply: cricket sound.
*And the section that had been cut out where the VIN is stamped on the chassis? - Police reply: cricket sound.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing...


The above situation is an example of why I got out of the industry of Cranes and Mobile elevated work platforms. Nobody was interested or cared that a structurally faulty machine had passed yearly inspections yet had loose or broken slew bolts (these are the bolts that hold the top rotating part to the lower chassis)

[DeeJay]

We had a very nice Ford Escort stolen in the early 80's & after a couple of weeks the answer from the police to our follow up was, " oh we don't investigate cars under $5k value" - it was worth $4800 !!
I recall a newspaper article not long after about a criminal syndicate with a factory of 45 stolen cars in Moorabbin busted - all due to a young bloke chasing down his stolen Toyota FJ45..

[DazzaTD5]

a criminal syndicate with a factory of 45 stolen cars in Moorabbin busted - all due to a young bloke chasing down his stolen Toyota FJ45..

That's because he had the passion to get his vehicle back.
Clearly I was naive to believe that Police are more than just a 9 - 5 job.

[alien]

That's because he had the passion to get his vehicle back.
Clearly I was naive to believe that Police are more than just a 9 - 5 job.
Department Of Transport may be more interested. Your customer can’t be over enthused after hearing what you found either.

[karlz]

So it sounds like, if you do the crime = no worries mate!

Very sad, I'd be ****ed if someone stole my Defender and got away with it.

NSW police must suck. Maybe thats a NSW thing that everything they do is only in halves ;)

[scarry]

NSW police must suck. Maybe thats a NSW thing that everything they do is only in halves ;)

Er,no,same happens here.
A mate of mine had a Falcon wagon stolen,and the authorities did stuff all.

Six months later,after a lot of effort he found the vehicle in a dealers yard,then the Police did something.

If he hadnt done all the work,the vehicle would still be 'missing'

[MLD]

A timely warning in a COVID world where inspecting a vehicle is a practical limitation in many instances.

if i was the owner and you laid that out for me, i wouldn't be keen for the police or Dept of transport to investigate it. Risk of losing a very expensive vehicle with little or no recourse for recovery against the seller. You would need to prove that the seller knew or ought to have known of the fraud. The owner will have to bear the costs of factual investigations, commencing legal proceedings etc. If the seller is an individual, recovery of a judgment debt is often a practical reality. if it was a dealership at least there is a business to sue and if the business wants to be a going concern will likely pay the judgment debt rather than go into liquidation.

The alternative is to live with a dirty secret and invoke caveat emptor if you sold the vehicle.

Tough situation to be in.

[d@rk51d3]

Reckon I have come across something similar.

Just found a 2004 D2a V8 HSE on Gumtree. Blue with leather trim.
"Dealer" ad, fuzzy pics.....
Ran a check on the rego, and all seemed ok.

Asked for the vin, then ran those numbers.

Comes up as a 2003, Bonatti Grey, cloth trim.

Mentioned it to the seller, ad still up, but selllers name has changed. :bat:

On the one hand, it's regoed and in the system.
On the other hand, you don't really know what you have.

[DazzaTD5]

Just to update this thread....

*I passed all the info onto the owner and also told him I had taken the info to the Police as I really didnt know where I stood in all this.
*I told him what the Police has told me and he asked what should he do about it.

*I had been thinking about all this for quite some time and decided...
*I spoke to the owner and said well we aren't the Police, we are also not "Gov Dept of inspections", or "approved" Gov bodies that obviously go through very rigorous standards, so I will prep it for roadworthy as I normally would do.
*I also said to the owner if we push this and they go to court (whom ever they are) will likely take their lawyer to court and get off with a good behavior bond or something similar.


So mechanically issues where:
*leaking steering box, did the seal, changed driveline fluids, pressure washed under side and engine bay clean.
*NO BOLTS holding the roof on except zip ties (I **** you not) head lining was teck screwed under the plastic caps, bolted everything back how it should be.
*NO BOLTS holding front guards, radiator support panel, plastic grill, a/c condenser, all of them were zip tied in place. bolted it all back together.
*NO BOLTS / fixings holding the dash. again replaced all the missing bolts and screws.
*Cleaned up front chassis all that light corrosion and coated in chassis black, mounted a steering guard and bullbar.
*Replaced the cheap nasty racer boy seats (that had 2 bolts attached to a alloy strip teck screwed to the under side of the seat) with 2 new Defender seats.
*I also noted that it was a mix of atleast 3 vehicles.

*The end result was a Defender prepped for a roadworthy inspection as how I would prep any vehicle that comes to me.
*So now it's been inspected and has a W.A rego and as far as I'm concerned its a legit roadworthy vehicle.

After all what would a dumb mechanic know when compared to far more knowledgeable Gov Depts.
DONT buy sight unseen especially from NSW which is the stolen rebirth capitol of Aust.

P.S on a side note, if you sat there and worked out or at least estimated the cost of each cut, as in for stripping it, likely putting it in a container with a pile of other parts, shipping it, storing it, put it vaguely back together, slipping it past a NSW inspection, another bit for the car yard etc etc. it sold for $47K I reckon after all said and done they (whom ever they are) prolly made maybe 20K on it. You could make more money doing legit work, so why would you bother? (apart from it being illegal right)

[DazzaTD5]

Also...

The car yard that sold the vehicle has shut it's doors.
My customer had been chasing the car yard boss for a proof of purchase to get it rego'd.
Finally got a tax invoice marked as paid after I said to my customer simply say you will contact the ATO and say this guy won't supply a tax invoice.
It's the ATO fav past time chasing up small business that are trying to avoid paying tax!

[101RRS]

My neighbour had his $300k AMG Mercedes (only 4 months old) and his wife's $150k top spec C Class (2019 model) knocked off from his garage the night before last. They did not touch the 2008 Lamborghini, the brand new Nissan Navara, the BMW X5 or the Nissan work ute - yes it is a big house with a big garage.

My bet is the AMG will be used as a getaway car for a middle eastern or bikie gang hit and the C Class will be stripped for parts. Was a professional job as they clearly knew what they were after. I think these cars would be difficult to rebirth but you never know.

I am sure the cops will be more interested in finding the Mercs than say, some old RRS that was parked in my drive if it had been knocked off instead.

Garry

[Arapiles]

My neighbour had his $300k AMG Mercedes (only 4 months old) and his wife's $150k top spec C Class (2019 model) knocked off from his garage the night before last. They did not touch the 2008 Lamborghini, the brand new Nissan Navara, the BMW X5 or the Nissan work ute - yes it is a big house with a big garage.

My bet is the AMG will be used as a getaway car for a middle eastern or bikie gang hit and the C Class will be stripped for parts. Was a professional job as they clearly knew what they were after. I think these cars would be difficult to rebirth but you never know.

I am sure the cops will be more interested in finding the Mercs than say, some old RRS that was parked in my drive if it had been knocked off instead.

Garry


How did they get past the immobilisers?

A couple of years ago high end stolen cars from here were reportedly turning up in China and Japan.

[101RRS]

How did they get past the immobilisers?



Broke into the house with 4 people inside and stole the keys off the hook - lesson - do not leave your keys in the house within easy reach of an intruder. Oh and consider where you locate the switch inside to open the garage door - in this case the Navara, the Mercs and the Lambo were inside the garage with electric door closed and they just pushed the button to open the garage door - was definitely a well planned job.

As a result I now have my keys stored in a more secure location and considering what to do with the garage opener.

[gavinwibrow]

As a result I now have my keys stored in a more secure location and considering what to do with the garage opener.



Good point but if like me and probably most doors (not that I have a Lamborghini or similar) your garage door has an internal switch on the actual door motor, what then?

[gruntfuttock]

I was told that if you have a keyless start car, the key fob has a range and this can be used via a computer like a relay to start the car. Solution? Put the keys in a tin, not plastic or china but tin, as the signal cannot get out of the tin.

[discorevy]

Unless you're confident and able enough to take on a couple of professional scumbags or meth heads it's better to leave keys outside the bedroom .
They will probably have both the element of surprise and some sort of weapon.
Having better security / cameras for your dwelling and / or a vehicle tracker with remote shut down if your in the city or burbs is a good idea.
Country folk more likely to have dogs / guns and less likely to drive status symbols worth stealing in general .

The investigating copper might just have a look at their finances from the perspective of someone having $450 000 worth of vehicles stolen but not the lambo ( sentimental value maybe ?)

[Tombie]

Broke into the house with 4 people inside and stole the keys off the hook - lesson - do not leave your keys in the house within easy reach of an intruder. Oh and consider where you locate the switch inside to open the garage door - in this case the Navara, the Mercs and the Lambo were inside the garage with electric door closed and they just pushed the button to open the garage door - was definitely a well planned job.

As a result I now have my keys stored in a more secure location and considering what to do with the garage opener.

WRONG!!! Very wrong!

Leave the keys away from your bedroom... Or you will find out how they coerce you to hand them over.

[BreakingBad]

I was told that if you have a keyless start car, the key fob has a range and this can be used via a computer like a relay to start the car. Solution? Put the keys in a tin, not plastic or china but tin, as the signal cannot get out of the tin.

and line the tin with lead

[Arapiles]

WRONG!!! Very wrong!

Leave the keys away from your bedroom... Or you will find out how they coerce you to hand them over.


Yeah .... unfortunately the recommended thing now is to leave the keys where a home invader can grab them without coming into contact with the people at home.

Cars can be replaced, people less so.

[gruntfuttock]

and line the tin with lead
No. Any old biscuit or tea tin. The radio frequencies can’t get out, not strong enough

[scarry]

No. Any old biscuit or tea tin. The radio frequencies can’t get out, not strong enough

There are small metal pouches available on Ebay,which do the job.

I cant believe some people still leave their car keys visible or easily found by intruders.
The authorities have been at us for years to treat them like cash,keep them well hidden at all times.
I suppose some have to learn the hard way.

Fingerprint recognition on main stream vehicles is just around the corner,which will stop many car thieves in their tracks.

[Gav 110]

There are small metal pouches available on Ebay,which do the job.

I cant believe some people still leave their car keys visible or easily found by intruders.
The authorities have been at us for years to treat them like cash,keep them well hidden at all times.
I suppose some have to learn the hard way.

Fingerprint recognition on main stream vehicles is just around the corner,which will stop many car thieves in their tracks.

As with all new technologies, there will be someone who works there way around it

I’ve found at my property in Perth, the best way to stop undesirables breaking into our vehicles is to leave them unlocked, nothing inside worth stealing and battery isolated

My immediate neighbours have the same theory, and its worked over the years
I heard some footsteps out the front one night and had a look through the blinds, before I had a chance to get up and turn a light on, grab the self defence tool of choice, they had opened the door of the 110 realised there was nothing in there to steal and moved on to the neighbours place to get the same results
By the time I got outside they were hurrying of into the bush empty handed (from my place anyway)

I know that works on older not so sought after vehicles and isolating the battery on newer vehicles isn’t ideal as you loose all your settings, but to leave your keys where a thief can easily break into your house and take off with your car is not a good idea as mentioned above

Those worried about having some pumped up meth head asking where your keys are in the middle of the night, upgrade your security (window screens, door locks etc) and lock yourself inside 24/7 as there is more chance being mugged out on the street [emoji1531]

[emoji481][emoji481][emoji481]
Gav

[scarry]

My immediate neighbours have the same theory, and its worked over the years
I heard some footsteps out the front one night and had a look through the blinds, before I had a chance to get up and turn a light on, grab the self defence tool of choice, they had opened the door of the 110 realised there was nothing in there to steal and moved on to the neighbours place to get the same results
By the time I got outside they were hurrying of into the bush empty handed (from my place anyway)


[emoji481][emoji481][emoji481]
Gav

If the thieves are youngish,and they see the three pedals,they will just walk away.

[gruntfuttock]

There was a bloke in Italy that stopped people stealing his land rover.
He installed an electric switch in the main line coming from the brake master cylinder. Unless you were able to remotely activate the switch it just wouldn’t release the pressure and eventually the brakes just locked on.
Not legal but then again stealing a car isn’t either. He said that he didn’t think it was dangerous as you apply the brakes to stop anyway.

[scarry]

There was a bloke in Italy that stopped people stealing his land rover.
He installed an electric switch in the main line coming from the brake master cylinder. Unless you were able to remotely activate the switch it just wouldn’t release the pressure and eventually the brakes just locked on.
Not legal but then again stealing a car isn’t either. He said that he didn’t think it was dangerous as you apply the brakes to stop anyway.

Years ago,in another life i used to work for a company that had a fleet of Falcon panelvans.

After a few were stolen,they installed a normally closed solenoid valve in the fuel line,wired up to a touch pad,that needed a code entered to energise the valve,everytime the ignition was turned on.

Instead of a touchpad,a hidden switch would do the same job,and be a relatively easy fit,with the solenoid valve.