Single lithium battery for cranking and auxiliary

[Ranga]

It's been a while since I bothered you all about lithium batteries. This time I'm interested in feasibility of replacing my wet cranking battery and AGM auxiliary battery with a single lithium in the old 300Tdi Defender. Can it be done, do I need to change alternator (or anything else), and if so how can I protect the battery from discharging too much to start the vehicle?

[AK83]

The general consensus is "don't do it".

Lithium is fine for aux, but not starter.

[trout1105]

The idea of using an auxillary battery to power various things (fridges, lights etc.) when the engine isn't running is to protect the cranking battery from being depleated so that it can start the engine.
Running everything from a single battery regardless of its size/type is a recipe for disaster.
Stick with the cranking battery AND and auxillary battery setup[thumbsupbig]

[disco gazza]

Have a look at iTechworld - Lithium Battery, Solar Power & Generator Power Experts (http://www.itechworld.com.au)
There is another company that does cranking lithium batteries but I cant remember the name.Think they were WA based as well.
They arent CHEAP but if you get there daily emails they,ll let you know when there on special.

For a 300tdi I,d go for a normal battery and if you go camping then get a lithium for the fridge,lights etc.

cheers DG

[W&KO]

Have a chat to DCS……I think these guys are the only ones doing lithium starters.

Those that are running lithium starters still run a second lithium for AUX.

Stop being tight and sort your slide on out first……for the times you’re disconnected from the 130.

[Geedublya]

Stephan Fischers discussion on the DCS lithium starter and auxillary.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbStDC-7Q9E&t=1076s

[Homestar]

Mate, it's really simple - stick a Lithium in for the aux stuff - you won't regret it, then ditch the cranking battery and strap a crank handle to the bull bar. [thumbsupbig]

[33chinacars]

I run Lithium batteries in one of my bikes & a Polaris 4x4 .
Benefits : Light weight & holds charge for a long time - real benefit when the Polaris only gets used every 6-12 months.
When the batteries die in my other bikes will be switching over to Lithium
Disadvantages : Cost . May need a different charger to recharge if they do go flat

[scarry]

A mate does the DCS lithium installs,they have literally done hundreds with no issues,under bonnet,on many vehicles.

The 100Amp is generally slightly larger than a wet cell 100 Amp,so is difficult to fit in some vehicles.

The Jap brigade are the usual customers,and two fit easily under the LC200 bonnet.

[Ranga]

A mate does the DCS lithium installs,they have literally done hundreds with no issues,under bonnet,on many vehicles.

The 100Amp is generally slightly larger than a wet cell 100 Amp,so is difficult to fit in some vehicles.

The Jap brigade are the usual customers,and two fit easily under the LC200 bonnet.

Do you know if he's done any as a single cranking battery?

[Vern]

Do you know if he's done any as a single cranking battery?Lot's of guys in the Y62 game just run the DCS starter only and a fridge etc..and feedback is that they don't really need to run a 2nd battery.

[scarry]

Do you know if he's done any as a single cranking battery?

I dont think so,they do single Auxillary batteries,though.

[Baytown]

Now that the technology is maturing, I’m going to replace my primary battery with one of these.

‘My only concern is robustness, i.e handling heavy corrugations etc, but the weight saving of around 18Kg once my current HD battery is replaced is more than welcome.

I run an ITech World 120 Amp Lithium in the rear as the accessory battery and its bullet proof, charging off a Redarc charger. I’m really happy with these units and purchase/delivery is painless.

173180

[DiscoMick]

Aren't lithiums designed for slow discharge and so better as auxiliary batteries, while starting batteries are designed to give a quick large power boost?

[Baytown]

What ever the starting requirements Mick, ITech World have sorted it and their Starter Lithium battery (as pictured) is rated at 1300CCA!, so it certainly suits our needs and my LS3 6.2 V8 starting requirements.

Defenders are well suited as obviously we run them outside of the engine bay anyway so no heat insult to the battery which was an issue for Lithium I believe.


Aren't lithiums designed for slow discharge and so better as auxiliary batteries, while starting batteries are designed to give a quick large power boost?

[drivesafe]

Hi Mick, you have to be specially careful when selecting lithium batteries because they vary greatly in what they can safely tolerate in both charge current and discharge current capabilities.

Lead Acid batteries, be they AGM or Wet Cell, also need to be selected according to required use.

A dedicated Deep Cycle battery will be slower to charge and are not that good for high current discharge situations.

BUT, there are now quite a few so-called Hybrid lead acid batteries that are both cranking batteries and deep cycle batteries.

Cranking batteries have always been able to be used as a deep cycle battery but the hybrid type usually allow for much deeper discharging.

With the large alternators being fitted to most vehicle these days, using a hybrid type battery, like an SSB HVT battery, you have a deep cycle battery that can be very quickly recharged with these large alternators.

This gives them a number of distinct advantages over both lithium and lead acid deep cycle batteries.

[W&KO]

What ever the starting requirements Mick, ITech World have sorted it and their Starter Lithium battery (as pictured) is rated at 1300CCA!, so it certainly suits our needs and my LS3 6.2 V8 starting requirements.

Defenders are well suited as obviously we run them outside of the engine bay anyway so no heat insult to the battery which was an issue for Lithium I believe.

I see you’re running an electric winch…how many amps does it pull at full load compared to max discharge of battery??

I’m guessing worst case you you do a 2:1 pull to reduce load.

I run a PTO winch therefore no idea on current draw on electrics

[Baytown]

Ive no idea re amps at full load but yep, I often do a 2:1 pull and always only run the winch for short periods.👍


I see you’re running an electric winch…how many amps does it pull at full load compared to max discharge of battery??

I’m guessing worst case you you do a 2:1 pull to reduce load.

I run a PTO winch therefore no idea on current draw on electrics

[W&KO]

Ive no idea re amps at full load but yep, I often do a 2:1 pull and always only run the winch for short periods.[emoji106]

Cools, I’m just thinking the BMS will shut down the battery if you exceed the max. discharge current of the battery.

If this is what’s happen you may need to be familiar with how to reset the BMS when overloaded, it may even auto reset..

I have been wondering if there are any issues or limitation with winching using these start type lithium batteries.

[drivesafe]

It's been a while since I bothered you all about lithium batteries. This time I'm interested in feasibility of replacing my wet cranking battery and AGM auxiliary battery with a single lithium in the old 300Tdi Defender. Can it be done, do I need to change alternator (or anything else), and if so how can I protect the battery from discharging too much to start the vehicle?
Hi Ranga, you can use a single battery both as a cranking battery and as an accessories power supply and many people do this with lead acid ( AGM or Wet/Flooded type ) cranking batteries.


The same can be done with a lithium but there are differences.


A simple and minimal costing low voltage cut-out device will protect lead acid batteries but you need something a lot more complex and more expensive to be able to protect a lithium battery from over discharging.


So you will need to do some homework to see if it is a viable alternative to using lead acid batteries.





Ive no idea re amps at full load but yep, I often do a 2:1 pull and always only run the winch for short periods.👍
Hi and you need to check the operating specs for your specific winch.


It is not uncommon for a winch to draw 400+ amps when nearing stall and you MUST cater this high current possibility occurring.

[Ranga]

So, after a bit of research, I found 2 lithium batteries that are designed and guaranteed for used for cranking, and work directly from the alternator.

12 Volt Lithium Cranking Batteries | Buy Online– iTechworld (https://itechworld.com.au/collections/12v-lithium-cranking-batteries) - however they told me it wasn't really designed for auxiliary use. Therefore, an extra battery and DC-DC charger would be required. Still might be a decent option to replace my cranking battery, and may work out cheaper than lead acid in the long run.

12V 80Ah Extreme battery (LITHIUM) (https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/product/12v-80ah-extreme-battery/) - not the cheapest, but apparently would work for both.

I think this device Victron Smart Battery Protect SBP-100 (https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/product/victron-battery-protect-bp-100/) will work ok to protect the cranking from over-discharge and allow for starting the vehicle.

I still need to consider total cost of ownership, which isn't a clear choice for me yet...