Climate sceptic? Met 40,000,000 thirsty people

[NavyDiver]

The Colorado River and huge wonder of the world hover dam and a 20 year drought has not in many peoples worst nightmare had a headline a little hard of ignore? Bet of course some can not only overlook it but keep rubbishing science and evidence[bigwhistle]

40 Million People Rely on the Colorado River. It’s Drying Up Fastlink (https://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2021/08/31/40-million-people-rely-on-the-colorado-river-its-drying-up-fast)
While 1000s of people die of Covid I understand animals and humans are hoping for rain in Nevada. California, Arizona and Mexico. Population of which is in the headline for humans only.

The logistics of Melbourne's little desalination plant to cover a few million is in contrasts starkly I think.

When in the Military I heard a yarn about millions of people overwhelming our some what smaller ammunition supply. Suspect water wars are not stuff of science fiction overwhelming many things people consider stable and reliable.

Excuse the gloomy post. I honesty see several very effective options to avoid a complete stuff up. As I put my money where my mouth is I wont specify those risky investment choices. Glad we do have choices [thumbsupbig]

[DeeJay]

And at the opposite end..& closer to home. Its been bucketing down here since this article too.

Forecast of heavy rain stirs nerves in landholders downstream of Hume Dam - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-03/forecast-of-heavy-rain-stirs-nerves-in-people-below-hume-dam/100429406)

[Slunnie]

Excuse the gloomy post. I honesty see several very effective options to avoid a complete stuff up. As I put my money where my mouth is I wont specify those risky investment choices. Glad we do have choices [thumbsupbig]

That's it, the right infrastructure can make water use fairly efficient.

Things as simple as a rainwater tank on houses will go a long way. In my case, my 105,000 litre rainwater tank has never been more than about 30cm from full with the exception of when a hose burst and almost all of it pumped out. I've never drawn on bore water for the house.

In Orange near where I live they have a number of ways of catching raw water:

Catchments of Suma Park, Spring Creek and Gosling Creek dams, including raising of the dam wall at Suma Park for additional capacity,
Blackmans Swamp Creek and Ploughmans Creek stormwater harvesting - so for those in town the council prefer you to not have water tanks, just let it run off and it will be caught, filtered and treated,
Macquarie River to Orange Pipeline to preserve water storage at a certain threshold while the river flows, and
Underground water bores.


There was a lot of pooing when it is being built for a whole lot of reasons, because of the cost and especially every time it rains, but those same people go very very quiet when we are in drought, the town is on restrictions, the water is drying up and we are relying on those systems so they have water. They will also be the first to complain the day they turn on their tap and nothing comes out.

[NavyDiver]

Love my tank as well Slunnie. We all should if we can. Its almost odd to actually pay for water and waste water like we do for the water pipe into our houses and the sewage/waste water on the way out

Notice FOX or the aussie equivalent has moved from ANTI anything to do with climate changes to being a "24-hour news channel to champion net zero emissions" "Rupert Murdoch’s global media empire has faced growing international condemnation and pressure from advertisers over its editorial stance on climate change, which has long cast doubt over the science behind global warming and has since 2007 attacked various federal government efforts to reduce emissions." link (https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/rupert-murdoch-newspapers-24-hour-news-channel-to-champion-net-zero-emissions-20210905-p58oyx.html)

Not changing much to do with anything other than advertisers pulling money from them I would guess? Its nice to see one of the biggest and loudest climate issue belittle or obfuscation makers.

"[B]Sky News will support the cause which will feature across the metropolitan tabloids mastheads. The Hildebrand-led campaign will not appear in the national masthead, The Australian, they said, but the newspaper will continue to temper its editorial stance on the issue"

A little more shift to come

[Homestar]

Not sure if anyone else remembers but water tanks on suburban properties used to be banned - I was only a kid so can't remember why but both Dad and a Neighbour a few doors down had one and had them screened pretty well to avoid prying eyes - a friend of Dad's was forced to remove his back then when found out. Would love to know the reason behind this - I was too young to remember why, but I do recall them both telling us not to go telling everyone because they weren't supposed to be there.

We moved after that to a rural property where the only water was tank water and that's what we grew up with - I still have short showers to this day as I'm sure I'll still get Dad hammering on the bathroom door telling me I've been too long - even from beyond the grave. [biggrin]

[JDNSW]

I believe the ban on urban tanks was primarily for health reasons - both the health problems likely to result from the drowned rats etc, the somewhat toxic water from ronoff from roofs and trim painted with lead based paints, and the fact that they can easily provide a breeding spot for mosquitoes.

[superquag]

LOTS of things are in play for 'Climate Change', and from the Time when Witch Doctors etc first noticed a regular pattern in the natural world, - they've used/abused such knowledge to elevate THEIR position in the Tribe... You must admit, that "calling back the Sun" at the end of an eclipse.... is pretty powerfu ju-ju. ! Keep that in the back of the mind when wading through a sea of ... confounders. ie, :-

Why an ice age occurs every 100,000 years: Climate and feedback effects explained -- ScienceDaily (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130807134127.htm) Regularity of Ice Ages.

and..... In Ancient Rocks, Scientists See a Climate Cycle Working Across Deep Time - The Fourth Extinction (https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2018/05/07/milankovitch-cycles-deep-time/)


Three factors illustrated Milankovitch Cycles and Glaciation (https://geol105.sitehost.iu.edu/images/gaia_chapter_4/milankovitch.htm)

And the Earth belching...... How Volcanoes Influence Climate | UCAR Center for Science Education (https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/how-climate-works/how-volcanoes-influence-climate)

Apparantly cuts both ways.... Climate Change Causes Increased Volcanism | Live Science (https://www.livescience.com/25936-climate-change-causes-volcanism.html) - That one is devious, LOTs of Rabbit - holes to distract and waste your evening !!!! [biggrin][biggrin][bigsmile]


Some graphical stuff for those who like pictures... Hard to imagine a thriving viticulture in the North of England... Or ice so thick and strong on the Thames... enough to safely support tempory 'towns'.

Yes, properly managed rainwater tanks on ALL (large enough) houses would make a difference in getting suburban Australia through the dry times. Perhaps a rebate of sorts oln AUSTRALIAN made tanks, help to move the shattered economy along. ?

[AK83]

And at the opposite end..& closer to home. Its been bucketing down here since this article too.

Forecast of heavy rain stirs nerves in landholders downstream of Hume Dam - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-03/forecast-of-heavy-rain-stirs-nerves-in-people-below-hume-dam/100429406)

You know the tragedy of this story .. is not the repeated nature of it .. it's that in the next 10 years 'people' will forget what happened just prior to this event!

That is, the hume weir was at something like 10% capacity and the news stories for the mindless masses being told were of doom and gloom and fairytales of death and destruction going forward, due to the lack of water from this point onwards.

I'd really love to know what is it about the here and now, that nullifies the memory of the past.

Maybe it's due to some psychological condition in the majority that catalogued historical event are some kind of conspiratorial agenda or something, and hence not to be trusted?

This country (and in others) has experienced much worse floods and droughts at some point, than we have in this post doom and gloom era of climate change.
The difference is that we personally may have experienced this era of wet and dry spells, and what happened in the past happened to others(ie. not us!).
it's only the here and now that seems to be the important factor.

These stories of 'millions going thirsty' is nothing but a sensationalist grab for attention by biased parties .. nothing more and little else.
I'll bet my last dime that the people noting this current situation(usually some illiterate journalist) have biases for the doom and gloom scenario of a warming globe.
I'm 99.9% confident that they haven't looked into the water supply demand upstream of the rivers before claiming drops in flow levels and capacity levels.

In this country(that I really concern myself with) it is a fact .. verifiable fact, not from these biased illiterate journalists .. that global warming is leading to a wettening of the entire country(as an average). Some parts will become dryer, most areas are becoming wetter. This info comes directly from the raw data provided by the Beauro of Met. You only need to see this data for yourself.
I have read of similar analysis of Africa too. I can imagine that on the whole, the US will be in a similar situation.
It's happened before, and the reasons for this phenomenon makes good sense.

So these headlines of millions going thirsty are not due to climate change! Just as in this country .. 99.99999% of it are due to gross mismanagement of the water resources as the infrastructure was intended to provide.

[d@rk51d3]

I believe the ban on urban tanks was primarily for health reasons - both the health problems likely to result from the drowned rats etc, the somewhat toxic water from ronoff from roofs and trim painted with lead based paints, and the fact that they can easily provide a breeding spot for mosquitoes.

Down here it was to protect the creeks and runoffs from drying out.
They also wanted to put meters on everyone’s tanks too.
They almost got lynched over that one, and were promptly run out of town.

[NavyDiver]

You know the tragedy of this story .. is not the repeated nature of it .. it's that in the next 10 years 'people' will forget what happened just prior to this event!

That is, the hume weir was at something like 10% capacity and the news stories for the mindless masses being told were of doom and gloom and fairytales of death and destruction going forward, due to the lack of water from this point onwards.

I'd really love to know what is it about the here and now, that nullifies the memory of the past.

Maybe it's due to some psychological condition in the majority that catalogued historical event are some kind of conspiratorial agenda or something, and hence not to be trusted?

This country (and in others) has experienced much worse floods and droughts at some point, than we have in this post doom and gloom era of climate change.
The difference is that we personally may have experienced this era of wet and dry spells, and what happened in the past happened to others(ie. not us!).
it's only the here and now that seems to be the important factor.

These stories of 'millions going thirsty' is nothing but a sensationalist grab for attention by biased parties .. nothing more and little else.
I'll bet my last dime that the people noting this current situation(usually some illiterate journalist) have biases for the doom and gloom scenario of a warming globe.
I'm 99.9% confident that they haven't looked into the water supply demand upstream of the rivers before claiming drops in flow levels and capacity levels.

In this country(that I really concern myself with) it is a fact .. verifiable fact, not from these biased illiterate journalists .. that global warming is leading to a wettening of the entire country(as an average). Some parts will become dryer, most areas are becoming wetter. This info comes directly from the raw data provided by the Beauro of Met. You only need to see this data for yourself.
I have read of similar analysis of Africa too. I can imagine that on the whole, the US will be in a similar situation.
It's happened before, and the reasons for this phenomenon makes good sense.

So these headlines of millions going thirsty are not due to climate change! Just as in this country .. 99.99999% of it are due to gross mismanagement of the water resources as the infrastructure was intended to provide.

No argument at all with most of you thoughts. Fully agree the headline is sensationalist in several ways- it is clear wetter wet and drier dry's and simply more extremes al every level which has impacts on places which may have the capacity to move enough water or make it like our little Desalination plants Vic. Suspect also the largely coastal habitat we almost all live in Australia may have a little better outcome than non coastal areas 100s + km from the oceans. My theory only.

It is not the same as prior events more than a few of us recall. Bush fires, droughts and floods and everything in between we have all seen. The scale and impacts is probably not the same as past events and we are highly likely to see much worse.


Population and water is and always will be a management issue.

[RANDLOVER]

I believe the ban on urban tanks was primarily for health reasons - both the health problems likely to result from the drowned rats etc, the somewhat toxic water from ronoff from roofs and trim painted with lead based paints, and the fact that they can easily provide a breeding spot for mosquitoes.

Don't forget dead snakes. lizards, geckos and pigeons on the roof or in gutters (and their droppings), I have a little 3000L rainwater but only use it for the washing machine and flushing the guest toilet, not for drinking. This winter has been wetter here than most as the tank lasted all the way through, normally I have to go back to mains water until the summer rain comes, around the time of the Gold Coast Indy or whatever they call it nowadays.

[RANDLOVER]

You know the tragedy of this story .. is not the repeated nature of it .. it's that in the next 10 years 'people' will forget what happened just prior to this event!

That is, the hume weir was at something like 10% capacity and the news stories for the mindless masses being told were of doom and gloom and fairytales of death and destruction going forward, due to the lack of water from this point onwards.

I'd really love to know what is it about the here and now, that nullifies the memory of the past.

Maybe it's due to some psychological condition in the majority that catalogued historical event are some kind of conspiratorial agenda or something, and hence not to be trusted?

This country (and in others) has experienced much worse floods and droughts at some point, than we have in this post doom and gloom era of climate change.
The difference is that we personally may have experienced this era of wet and dry spells, and what happened in the past happened to others(ie. not us!).
it's only the here and now that seems to be the important factor.

These stories of 'millions going thirsty' is nothing but a sensationalist grab for attention by biased parties .. nothing more and little else.
I'll bet my last dime that the people noting this current situation(usually some illiterate journalist) have biases for the doom and gloom scenario of a warming globe.
I'm 99.9% confident that they haven't looked into the water supply demand upstream of the rivers before claiming drops in flow levels and capacity levels.

In this country(that I really concern myself with) it is a fact .. verifiable fact, not from these biased illiterate journalists .. that global warming is leading to a wettening of the entire country(as an average). Some parts will become dryer, most areas are becoming wetter. This info comes directly from the raw data provided by the Beauro of Met. You only need to see this data for yourself.
I have read of similar analysis of Africa too. I can imagine that on the whole, the US will be in a similar situation.
It's happened before, and the reasons for this phenomenon makes good sense.

So these headlines of millions going thirsty are not due to climate change! Just as in this country .. 99.99999% of it are due to gross mismanagement of the water resources as the infrastructure was intended to provide.

The SOI Southern Oscillation Index/ Indian Ocean Dipole/ La Nina/ El Nino/ Madden-Julian Oscillation, is a far better predicter of Australia's rainfall, what climate change does predict is greater extremes, one reason for this is warmer oceans generate wetter weather, so more frequent and extreme floods, cyclones, etc. Thus the average may look great at say 1200mm for a year, but not good if it all falls in one go, much better to get 100mm a month. This is why I think we should be building more/bigger dams to catch the windfall of water for the dry/drier times ahead.

[NavyDiver]

I suspect water temp is a great indicator. Tropical fish down in Mexico and our huge kelp ( seaweed) been stripped bare is clear to only the people who get wet of course.

On a bigger study plus "The study team, led by Hartmut Aumann of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, combed through 15 years of data acquired by NASA's Atmospheric Infrared Sounder (AIRS) instrument over the tropical oceans to determine the relationship between the average sea surface temperature and the onset of severe storms. (https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2837/warming-seas-may-increase-frequency-of-extreme-storms/)" was not pretty.


" tropical ocean surface temperatures may rise by as much as 4.8 degrees Fahrenheit (2.7 degrees Celsius) by the end of the century. The study team concludes that if this were to happen, we could expect the frequency of extreme storms to increase by as much as 60 percent by that time. Although climate models aren't perfect, results like these can serve as a guideline for those looking to prepare for the potential effects a changing climate may have"

Estimates and predictions are prone to misfires. History is not depending of course on the search parameters.

Floods and droughts are evident over millions of years almost every where in our landscape. The creek at the bottom 200m below where I sit drops another 100 ish metres to the Yarra river less than 5 km from here. The hills or gullies carved out millions of years ago by floods and water? Change is inevitable over time. rapid made changes to our environment are not with a little effort.

[Ronski]

Population and water is and always will be a management issue.

Here lies the real problem, no one is managing the population.
Consider this, 100 years ago, after WW1 the world population was around 1.3 billion.
Today we are surging past 7 billion, predicted to reach 15 billion around 2025 or 2030.

We have to be fed and watered, natural rain forests cleared for 'irrigated crops' to feed us.
Livestock has to be watered to feed us, not to mention filling the backyard pool in rich countries.
Huge increase in water demanding industries, to give us all the 'things we need'.

We are simply using more than the rains supply, don't fully blame the climate.
Verging on a disaster now, What about in 20 years?
Human behavior is what it is, do nothing until it happens.
So, how do we manage the world population? good luck with that.

[Gav 110]

Don't forget dead snakes. lizards, geckos and pigeons on the roof or in gutters (and their droppings), I have a little 3000L rainwater but only use it for the washing machine and flushing the guest toilet, not for drinking. This winter has been wetter here than most as the tank lasted all the way through, normally I have to go back to mains water until the summer rain comes, around the time of the Gold Coast Indy or whatever they call it nowadays.

We too only use the water out of the tanks for the washing and toilets
As we have found those listed things IN the tank, also a dead cat
I can understand things getting in through the overflow, but it’s got me ****ed how a cat got in there[emoji848]
Maybe last owner left the lid off for a while 🤨

[Tote]

Yass town water is so undrinkable we do the reverse.... We have a 2000 gallon tank attached to the garage that is our source of drinking water. The garage is all colourbond however, and the tank has stainless screening. Hasn't killed us yet :-)

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be keen to drink the runoff from the house roof with 120 year old roofing iron, lead flashings and is a possum highway most nights.

Regards,
Tote

[NavyDiver]

We drained an undergound tank at a mud brick house near Bet Bet Vic when I was a kid. My role was to fill up a bucket of mud and crap to be lifted out. The mud and muck was above my waist we I first dropped in[tonguewink] I assume it had not been cleaned out for a bit[bigrolf] Bones of mice, rats and birds I assume in the mud gave me a interesting time considering it was our main drinking water tank. It took two days as the people up top got tired.

I love Melbourne water. Sweeter than Sydney and Perth's by a long shot. My water tank feeds the loo, garden and car wash.

[Tote]

Growing up on farms the loo was always plumbed to dam or bore water as it was by far the greatest consumer of water in the house.

Regards,
Tote

[NavyDiver]

Growing up on farms the loo was always plumbed to dam or bore water as it was by far the greatest consumer of water in the house.

Regards,
Tote

Ours was too. The camouflage the dam water gave to deposits did give provide a bit of cover IF some one forgot to flush or a floater was stubborn on the way out [bigrolf]

[vnx205]

In Narrabri in the 1970s, it was standard practice to have three taps over the sink: hot water, cold water and drinking water (from the tank).

When I coated the inside of the tank with a product to deal with all the pinholes in the tank, I found an interesting collection of bird and frog skeletons.

[vnx205]

Yass town water is so undrinkable we do the reverse....
... .... ...
Regards,
Tote

When the bypass was built around Yass, a bore was put down near the river towards the top of where the water backed up from the weir. That was the water they used to make the concrete for the bypass.

The story at the time (which may or may not have been true) was that when they tested the dam water that was the town supply they found it was not fit for making concrete.

[Arapiles]

.....

Things as simple as a rainwater tank on houses will go a long way. In my case, my 105,000 litre rainwater tank has never been more than about 30cm from full with the exception of when a hose burst and almost all of it pumped out. I've never drawn on bore water for the house.




We're in the inner city and installed 3 x 6000 litre tanks. We've only connected mains water to the cold sink taps (i.e., for brushing teeth and cooking) and everything else runs on tank water. With that arrangement we only use 30 litres a day of mains water, which works out at about 6 litres per person per day. It's also been years since I watered the lawn, as the grass appears to be very drought-proof.

[Tombie]

I worked on a site fed from bores via RO plants.
We washed in it etc…

It was part of my task profile to analyse the water as we had to keep the Radiation content below certain levels [emoji41]

[JDNSW]

In Narrabri in the 1970s, it was standard practice to have three taps over the sink: hot water, cold water and drinking water (from the tank).

........

Standard practice in a lot of places. I first encountered it in Roma, where the town water supply comes from bores. And has a substantial content of oil and gas (the first discovery of gas in Roma was in a water well drilled in the 1890s for town water). The stuff that came out of the taps was pretty repulsive, so nearly everyone had a water tank for drinking.

[Slunnie]

We're in the inner city and installed 3 x 6000 litre tanks. We've only connected mains water to the cold sink taps (i.e., for brushing teeth and cooking) and everything else runs on tank water. With that arrangement we only use 30 litres a day of mains water, which works out at about 6 litres per person per day. It's also been years since I watered the lawn, as the grass appears to be very drought-proof.

Thats another really good point! All of my Garden is natives which apart from when tubestock have never been watered and the grass is all just pasture grass.

[Slunnie]

In Narrabri in the 1970s, it was standard practice to have three taps over the sink: hot water, cold water and drinking water (from the tank).

When I coated the inside of the tank with a product to deal with all the pinholes in the tank, I found an interesting collection of bird and frog skeletons.

I have mesh on the intake and outlet to keep all of those out as best as possible.

Reminds me of Birdsville. They had 2 taps, one was hot water and the other was hot water. :lol2:

[JDNSW]

One or more of the towns round Augathella have hot water delivered to the houses, and if you want cold (well, as cold as it gets there in summer!) water you have to have a cooling tank if I remember rightly.

[Arapiles]

In this country(that I really concern myself with) it is a fact .. verifiable fact, not from these biased illiterate journalists .. that global warming is leading to a wettening of the entire country(as an average). Some parts will become dryer, most areas are becoming wetter. This info comes directly from the raw data provided by the Beauro of Met. You only need to see this data for yourself.




That's partially true - there's heavier rain in the north of WA but the drying out of the South-West of WA (as well as the Wimmera and Central Victoria etc etc) is an established fact and of more relevance given where agriculture and our populations are.

Want to guess where the largest rainfall anomaly in Victoria is? In the catchment for the Thompson Dam ....

[prelude]

Here lies the real problem, no one is managing the population.
Consider this, 100 years ago, after WW1 the world population was around 1.3 billion.
Today we are surging past 7 billion, predicted to reach 15 billion around 2025 or 2030.

We have to be fed and watered, natural rain forests cleared for 'irrigated crops' to feed us.
Livestock has to be watered to feed us, not to mention filling the backyard pool in rich countries.
Huge increase in water demanding industries, to give us all the 'things we need'.

We are simply using more than the rains supply, don't fully blame the climate.
Verging on a disaster now, What about in 20 years?
Human behavior is what it is, do nothing until it happens.
So, how do we manage the world population? good luck with that.

You need not worry about that for too long. The population of the world is set tot dramatically decrease in a couple of decades. Most developed continents have a net loss in population, that is; less new people are being born than (will) die. The only reason we are seeing growth in those area's is because people no longer die at the top end ;) ie people live longer but the replacement rate is down nearly everywhere except I believe Africa at this time. Some argue that the loss of such a large part of the population is an economic disaster in itself. Also 15 billion in 2030 is not going to happen. 11 billion is currently the peak and if I combine both sets of information it seems to suggest that after that 11 billion we might see a fairly steep decrease.

-P

[NavyDiver]

Climate change means bigger bills - and ears and tails as wellTail ears and bigger bills ( The Beak type not $$$)
did not expect that. I love scientists

Climate change is causing some animals to “shape shift” and grow larger extremities such as beaks, ears and tails, an Australian review of global scientific research has revealed, as the creatures adapt to hotter temperatures.

The study, by Deakin University bird expert and PhD student Sara Ryding, shows these changes have been occurring across wide geographical regions and among an array of unrelated, warm-blooded species.

Climate change causing animals to ‘shape-shift’ and grow larger beaks, ears and tails (https://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/climate-change-means-bigger-bills-and-ears-and-tails-as-well-20210907-p58pg6.html)

DEFINE_ME (https://www.cell.com/trends/ecology-evolution/fulltext/S0169-5347(21)00197-X)


What is also very interesting is many Companies moving faster to fix and correct issues they make. Fascinating to watch. Coles, BHP. Fotescue .......... Almost all annual share holder meeting CEO address have covered some large moves to offset and also reduce emissions.

[AK83]

....
did not expect that. I love scientists

....

That's a weird reaction.
If anything, not evolving to the changing conditions would be more unexpected.

This is exactly what Darwin wrote about so many years ago.
A few mm larger here, and few mm longer there, it all counts. We probably won't see it, but in say 100 years that generation will have the data to confirm that the average beak, or bill or feather or whatever ... has got larger since more accurate records were being catalogued.

[NavyDiver]

Watched a interesting plan to release water from some dams to allow the massive power at the lake med - hoover dam to keep the lights on for three US states



The dams mentioned in the very annoying computer voice in the video below are in the above this link. Flaming Gorge Water Database (http://flaminggorge.water-data.com/) Flaming Gorge, Aspinall dam and Navajo dam. Aspinall isn't in the link It seem to be three "Crystal Dam
Blue Mesa Dam
Morrow Point Dam
"

A quick look at each of the dams was a wow, Hoover power is "about 4 billion kilowatt-hours of hydroelectric power each year for use in Nevada, Arizona, and California - enough to serve 1.3 million people"

That seem to be a lot of power to replace if 'dead pool' the term they are using if the water is below the outlet pipes of the Hydro station(s)

If your interested have a look at Lake Navajo. It they are counting on it to save their power and water needs I suspect they are in real trouble and making more trouble for locals at several places listed.

Hope they get lot of snow and rain falls. Its been a dry 20 years for them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq0mzuLy7eQ

[350RRC]

............................
"

A quick look at each of the dams was a wow, Hoover power is "about 4 billion kilowatt-hours of hydroelectric power each year for use in Nevada, Arizona, and California - enough to serve 1.3 million people"

That seem to be a lot of power to replace if 'dead pool' the term they are using if the water is below the outlet pipes of the Hydro station(s)..............................



4 billion KWH = 4 million MWH = 4,000 GWH.

For a year..........divide by (365 x 24 = 8,760) = 0.457 GW / yr.

The **** ant Yambuk windfarm puts out 90 GW / yr.

Am I missing something here? Dud maths? (very happy to be corrected).

DL

[NavyDiver]

4 billion KWH = 4 million MWH = 4,000 GWH.

For a year..........divide by (365 x 24 = 8,760) = 0.457 GW / yr.

The **** ant Yambuk windfarm puts out 90 GW / yr.

Am I missing something here? Dud maths? (very happy to be corrected).

DL
thank god I am not a Sparky. 2-3 US states I can count to from the reports. PS Yambuk is clearly cool

[350RRC]

thank god I am not a Sparky. 2-3 US states I can count to from the reports. PS Yambuk is clearly cool

Well.............. Yambuk is small and relatively old, but it does have published annual outputs which does match its 30 odd % capacity factor. None of that info is easy to access.

Kiata is newer and has a capacity factor of around 47%, newer farms using bigger turbines like Berrybank would be higher again.

I suspect the quoted Hoover figure is wrong.

DL

[NavyDiver]

Well.............. Yambuk is small and relatively old, but it does have published annual outputs which does match its 30 odd % capacity factor. None of that info is easy to access.

Kiata is newer and has a capacity factor of around 47%, newer farms using bigger turbines like Berrybank would be higher again.

I suspect the quoted Hoover figure is wrong.

DL
Dam you google [thumbsupbig]

[JDNSW]

4 billion KWH = 4 million MWH = 4,000 GWH.

For a year..........divide by (365 x 24 = 8,760) = 0.457 GW / yr.

The **** ant Yambuk windfarm puts out 90 GW / yr.

Am I missing something here? Dud maths? (very happy to be corrected).

DL

Yes. You are messing up rate and quantity. First line is correct, 4,000GWH

And, as stated at the beginning that is the quantity of energy produced per year - you don't need to divide it by anything. And it is large compared to the Yambuk wind farm, assuming that you meant to quote it as 90GWH/year.

To reiterate:-

Watts, Kilowatts, Megawatts and Gigawatts are a measure of the rate at which energy is generated, used, transported etc. Adding "per hour, year etc" is a meaningless quantity

Watt-hours, Kilowatt-hours, Megawatt-hours are measures of the quantity of energy generated, used, transported and is the number of Watts multiplied by the number of hours etc. Kwh/hour = kilowatt

[NavyDiver]

General Sherman - Hands to Action stations - Not kidding

Firefighters are wrapping fire-resistant blankets around ancient trees as blazes tear through California's world-famous Sequoia National Park.


Officials fear the fire could reach the Giant Forest, a grove of some of the world's biggest trees, within hours.


The forest hosts some 2,000 sequoias, including the 275ft (83m) General Sherman, the biggest tree by volume on Earth and about 2,500 years old.


The Colony and Paradise fires have been growing for a week.


More than 350 firefighters, along with helicopters and water-dropping planes, have been mobilised to battle the blazes.


They have wrapped several trees, including the General Sherman, with aluminium foil to protect them.[wink11][wink11][wink11]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/6657/production/_120599162_sherman.png

[NavyDiver]

Four significant giant sequoia trees were not harmed by a wildfire that reached the edge of Giant Forest in California’s Sequoia National Park (https://www.nps.gov/seki/index.htm), authorities said Link (https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/kidspost/4-famous-giant-sequioa-trees--the-four-guardsmen--protected-from-wildfire/2021/09/20/1a950ebe-144a-11ec-9589-31ac3173c2e5_story.html)

That's great to hear. I want to see those trees If I can.


A little further south in Brazil things might be a bit dry and dark? Oddly Daylight savings is a issue there as well.

"Brazil’s reservoirs are dwindling. In a country where almost two-thirds of power comes from hydroelectric generation, low rainfall has serious consequences. The situation is so bad, Bolsonaro asked Brazilians on September 23 to stop using elevators when possible and to take “much healthier” cold showers."

Oddly I see an Aussie company about to restart refining bauxite (https://www.mining.com/web/home-alcoa-powers-up-in-brazil-as-china-aluminum-powers-down/) there."Alcoa’s restart of its idled Brazilian capacity and Russian producer Rusal’s reactivation of its long-delayed Taishet smelter project."

Cannot see how that will work if the power is limited ???? Off Topic I Wonder if Portland (VIC) might recover If prices are jumping as suggested.

"BRASILIA, Sept 1 (Reuters) - Brazilian Vice President Hamilton Mourao said on Wednesday a severe drought could lead to energy rationing in Brazil, contradicting other officials who have said that such a step would not be necessary.Brazil, one of the world's agricultural superpowers, is suffering from one of its worst droughts in a century. The lack of rainfall has emptied hydroelectric reservoirs, fanned inflation and hurt farmers. The government has given incentives to use less energy but says rationing is not expected."
Some on is telling fibbs?

"Brazil's Mines and Energy Minister Bento Albuquerque on Tuesday said the country's energy crisis was worse than previously thought. In a televised national address, Albuquerque said Brazil had lost hydropower output equal to the energy consumed by the city of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil's second largest, in five months." Link (https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/drought-may-force-brazil-ration-power-says-vice-president-mourao-2021-09-01/)

[350RRC]

Four significant giant sequoia trees were not harmed by a wildfire that reached the edge of Giant Forest in California’s Sequoia National Park (https://www.nps.gov/seki/index.htm), authorities said Link (https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/kidspost/4-famous-giant-sequioa-trees--the-four-guardsmen--protected-from-wildfire/2021/09/20/1a950ebe-144a-11ec-9589-31ac3173c2e5_story.html)

That's great to hear. I want to see those trees If I can.


A little further south in Brazil things might be a bit dry and dark? Oddly Daylight savings is a issue there as well.

"Brazil’s reservoirs are dwindling. In a country where almost two-thirds of power comes from hydroelectric generation, low rainfall has serious consequences. The situation is so bad, Bolsonaro asked Brazilians on September 23 to stop using elevators when possible and to take “much healthier” cold showers."

Oddly I see an Aussie company about to restart refining bauxite (https://www.mining.com/web/home-alcoa-powers-up-in-brazil-as-china-aluminum-powers-down/) there."Alcoa’s restart of its idled Brazilian capacity and Russian producer Rusal’s reactivation of its long-delayed Taishet smelter project."

Cannot see how that will work if the power is limited ???? Off Topic I Wonder if Portland (VIC) might recover If prices are jumping as suggested.

"BRASILIA, Sept 1 (Reuters) - Brazilian Vice President Hamilton Mourao said on Wednesday a severe drought could lead to energy rationing in Brazil, contradicting other officials who have said that such a step would not be necessary.Brazil, one of the world's agricultural superpowers, is suffering from one of its worst droughts in a century. The lack of rainfall has emptied hydroelectric reservoirs, fanned inflation and hurt farmers. The government has given incentives to use less energy but says rationing is not expected."
Some on is telling fibbs?

"Brazil's Mines and Energy Minister Bento Albuquerque on Tuesday said the country's energy crisis was worse than previously thought. In a televised national address, Albuquerque said Brazil had lost hydropower output equal to the energy consumed by the city of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil's second largest, in five months." Link (https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/drought-may-force-brazil-ration-power-says-vice-president-mourao-2021-09-01/)

Wouldn't be related to rainforest clearing by any chance? [biggrin]

[NavyDiver]

Cold or hot?? It cost money

"US household winter heating costs to see double-digit growth: EIA. Energy prices climbed 1.3% in September and are now up 24.8% over the past year" Foxy news and EIA data [biggrin]


If Australia takes we have a big new rail line for coal we can ship to you I wonder what the reaction will be at COP26: What is the Glasgow climate (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56901261)"
Be interesting to watch. My silly thought is carbon free Uranium which is hated by many[biggrin]

[SBD4]

Cold or hot?? It cost money

"US household winter heating costs to see double-digit growth: EIA. Energy prices climbed 1.3% in September and are now up 24.8% over the past year" Foxy news and EIA data [biggrin]


If Australia takes we have a big new rail line for coal we can ship to you I wonder what the reaction will be at COP26: What is the Glasgow climate (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56901261)"
Be interesting to watch. My silly thought is carbon free Uranium which is hated by many[biggrin]

or green hydrogen[thumbsupbig]

[V8Ian]

or green hydrogen[thumbsupbig]
Twiggy's onto it.

[SBD4]

Twiggy's onto it.
Yep and raise and call by NSW gov't as well which is great!

[numpty]

Not sure if anyone else remembers but water tanks on suburban properties used to be banned - I was only a kid so can't remember why but both Dad and a Neighbour a few doors down had one and had them screened pretty well to avoid prying eyes - a friend of Dad's was forced to remove his back then when found out. Would love to know the reason behind this - I was too young to remember why, but I do recall them both telling us not to go telling everyone because they weren't supposed to be there.

We moved after that to a rural property where the only water was tank water and that's what we grew up with - I still have short showers to this day as I'm sure I'll still get Dad hammering on the bathroom door telling me I've been too long - even from beyond the grave. [biggrin]


This happened in NSW as well in the '80's. One excuse was tanks were an eyesore and breeders of mosquitoes etc.

Then the great turnaround happened and the state government started subsidising the purchase and installation of water tanks. Go figure.

I grew up with tank water, am now connected to town water on my rural block and I don't waste water. And that is the main crux, people use too much water. Bugger building more dams and destroying more river systems. Utilise what we already have more wisely.

[NavyDiver]

The US water is odd- flooding East coast and 10 year drought west cost[bighmmm]

Bit crook plus when animals are left high and dry:rulez:

"MOENKOPI, Ariz. — On the bone-dry plateau where the Hopi people have lived for well over a thousand years, Robinson Honani pulled his truck to the side of a dirt road and pointed to a carcass.“This is where the cows come to die,” Mr. Honani, manager of the Hopi Office of Range Management, said one morning in September as he spotted the remains nearby of another bovine decaying under the sun. It was at least the 10th dead cow Hopi range officials had found in recent weeks.
Alarmed by the two-decade drought that has dried up springs, withered crops and killed cattle, the Hopi Tribal Council ordered ranchers in August to slash their herds in a bid to preserve water supplies and avoid the cruelty of an even larger death toll. Link (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/02/us/arizona-megadrought.html)


It is like a slow train wreak watching a drought. Just a bit more news as it is a food bowl across several states and two countries "

New estimates show Colorado River levels falling faster than expected" The Bureau of Reclamation report released Thursday shows an 88% chance that Lake Powell could fall below 3,525 feet by next August, a level that would endanger hydropower production, with chances Lake Mead will hit critical levels in the next few years"Not this week thankfully (https://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2021/09/29/new-estimates-show-colorado-river-levels-falling-faster-than-expected)?

Watching a East Coast of OZ drenching this weekend happily. Given our track record I hope that doesn't lead to a bad fire season[bighmmm]

[NavyDiver]

"The wet winter the American south-west has hoped for as it battles extreme drought and heat is increasingly unlikely to materialize as scientists now predict that a phenomenon known as La Niña (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/la-nina) will develop for the second year in a row.The weather system could intensify the worst effects of the drought that much of the region already finds itself in, including higher wildfire risks and water shortages through 2022."


Many of us who have had drought dry up our dams and tanks know the saying. "If its yellow let it Mellow. If its brown flush it down"
https://realfunny.net/uploads/conserve_water_if_its_yellow_let_it_mellow._if_its _brown_flush_it_down._3110169149.jpg
That needs water to flush it of course "‘Stinky city’: Los Angeles reels from reek of ‘sewer gas (https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/stinky-city-los-angeles-reels-from-reek-of-sewer-gas-20211017-p590p9.html)’" It is "hydrogen sulfide" of course. Year 10 science class flash back anyone?

What just might be a real kick in the guts in when after 20 odd years it does start to rain another issue may be tricky plus "For the past three years, the nitrate-removal system hasn’t run at all. “This was built for the old normal,” Corrigan said. Thanks to the drought, there’s been little runoff and hence few nitrates in the water. The problem is that farmers don’t stop applying fertilizer or running large breeding operations because of drought. So the nitrates build up. When they’re eventually washed into rivers and reservoirs, they could overwhelm the system and leave the city unable to meet demand.“The worst-case scenario for us is the drought ends with a wet spring and a huge flush of nitrates.”" Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-10-17/iowa-s-water-crisis-offers-a-glimpse-of-the-future)

[NavyDiver]

Odd?
New Delhi to close schools, construction sites due to heavy air pollution link (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-14/delhi-schools-construction-sites-to-due-to-smog/100618900)




v We love coal?
"The change India proposed replaced the phrase "phase out" with "phase down".

His voice breaking with emotion after hearing from nations which expressed their anger over the changes to the text, he said: "May I just say to all delegates, I apologise for the way this process has unfolded and I am deeply sorry." Link


(https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-14/cop26-climate-deal-reached-with-coal-compromise/100618866)Logical or rubbish is science or self interest or self destruction?

A bit similar to the water issue? In August 2021, the Colorado River captured the attention of the nation. In a first-of-its-kind decision (https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/extremely-serious-federal-regulators-declare-first-ever-shortage-on-the-colorado-river-as-water-officials-look-toward-a-drier-future), the federal government declared a water shortage on the river, which provides 90% of Southern Nevada’s water supply. Mandatory water delivery cuts, known as “Tier 1” reductions, followed for the states of Nevada and Arizona, as well as for the country of Mexico. Paired with expectations of a drier climate, these cuts have catalyzed a conversation about how the region’s water policies – and assumptions about future water availability – must be adapted Link (https://www.unr.edu/nevada-today/blogs/2021/impact-of-colorado-river-shortages-on-nevada)


Seems odd posting about water shortages (US) when we are getting one of the best wet starts for decades? A 100+ year old pear tree which as had one one or two 'shriveled' pears on it for the last 20+ years is over loaded with fruit this year[thumbsupbig]


Its gun draw sadly now Farmers V Fish- (https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/11/10/if-the-fish-die-the-people-die-water-wars-in-americas-west)

Speaking publicly about racial justice was not without risk in Klamath Falls. A year earlier, at the park where Gentry now sat, a small Black Lives Matter demonstration was met with hundreds of counter-protesters (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/klamath-falls-oregon-victory-declared-over-antifa-which-never-showed-n1226681) armed with rifles, shotguns and pistols. Now, Gentry planned to argue that the Klamath Basin’s festering racial injustices were also at the root of the region’s explosive issue: water.
For decades, water has divided farmers and Indigenous people throughout the 15,000 square-mile (38,850 square km) Klamath Basin, which comprises parts of Southern Oregon and Northern California. Tensions rose in May when the federal government shut off access (https://www.usbr.gov/newsroom/#/news-release/3850) to the water that generations of local farmers had relied on to irrigate their crops. Climate change had brought on extreme drought and the hottest summer in the state’s history. Under those conditions, extracting water for agriculture from Upper Klamath Lake could further threaten endangered species of fish that are sacred to the Klamath Tribes, federal officials said.

[NavyDiver]

In Port Fairy not just for a Chemo run. Noted several hundred metres of dunes now having rock wall to stop them washing away. Ditto at Portland and same at Cape Bridgewater. Millions $$$$$ plus wasted I see as no way that stops water with clear evidence at spots where storm surges had already moved 100s of tonnes of the rocks by washing the sand way- who would have thought that might happen? [bigwhistle]

Back in the Nevada winter wild fires burnt hundreds or thousands of home just before snow storms in Winter Oddly Horse seem as much a issue (https://www.sierranevadaally.org/2022/01/03/wildfires-and-wild-horses/)

The plans to help seem to overlook the issues in Western Districts of Vic and the US I felt. Perhaps I am a dooms dayer? In the US leaders are deciding what to do with a lot less water (https://www.kuer.org/health-science-environment/2021-12-17/utah-leaders-and-colorado-river-officials-meet-about-future-of-the-river-basin).

I wonder if they are considering a dead duck? Let it snow is a better hope [bigsmile1]

[NavyDiver]

headlines are big. Time frame for worst seem to get worse.

Either way its a dry argument?
Megadrought in Southwest US worst in a millennium


The American West is experiencing its worst drought since 800AD - around the time Charlemagne ruled - according to a newly released study.



The ongoing drought has seen lakes, reservoirs and rivers in California fall to record lows, exacerbating wildfires, according to scientists.


The current drought is the worst 22-year dry period in the last 1,200 years - dating back to Vikings and Mayans.

"journal Nature Climate Change relied on data from the rings in trees and wood beams preserved at Native American archaeological sites. "




Megadrought in Southwest US worst in a millennium - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60396229)
In other news your can see stuff not seen for 60 years "With Lake Powell water levels at historic lows, Gregory Natural Bridge recently resurfaced for the first time in almost 60 years."

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/cc/acccff41-4bf6-5b9a-b923-ea3dd7307c4d/6201a4f0a8ea0.image.jpg'resize=1200%2C801

[ramblingboy42]

Just don't be climate skeptic......it's the reason the world is in it's terrible current situation.....you all know it , don't deny it.

[RANDLOVER]

headlines are big. Time frame for worst seem to get worse.

Either way its a dry argument?
Megadrought in Southwest US worst in a millennium


The American West is experiencing its worst drought since 800AD - around the time Charlemagne ruled - according to a newly released study.



The ongoing drought has seen lakes, reservoirs and rivers in California fall to record lows, exacerbating wildfires, according to scientists.


The current drought is the worst 22-year dry period in the last 1,200 years - dating back to Vikings and Mayans.

"journal Nature Climate Change relied on data from the rings in trees and wood beams preserved at Native American archaeological sites. "




Megadrought in Southwest US worst in a millennium - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60396229)
In other news your can see stuff not seen for 60 years "With Lake Powell water levels at historic lows, Gregory Natural Bridge recently resurfaced for the first time in almost 60 years."

For those who'd rather watch than read Western states face a bleak future amid the worst drought in more than 1,000 years - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyPXpIqyKRM&t=0s)

[NavyDiver]

With a clear dought break+++++ here in Australia - A bit to much in some places [bigwhistle] Had a quick look at this one again. Sadly the US state which is a major bread basket is drier than ever and nothing showing a break for them. Not forgetting a country to the south of them and other near by US states in strife as well[bighmmm]

"The first two months of 2022 are shaping up to be the driest January and February in California history, prompting state officials to warn of dire water conditions ahead. “There’s no precipitation forecast through the remainder of February. And there’s very little precipitation in the long-range forecast for March,” Erik Ekdahl, a deputy director with the State Water Resources Control Board, said at a board meeting Tuesday. “All this is pointing to, again, some pretty dire conditions statewide for drought.” After record-setting storms in October (https://www.weather.gov/mtr/AtmosphericRiver_10_24-25_2021) and then December (https://twitter.com/UCB_CSSL/status/1475511462588211200), the past six weeks — usually among the wettest months in California — have seen precipitation totals plateau (https://cdec.water.ca.gov/floodER/hydro/) at roughly half the yearly average in the state’s major watersheds." link (https://calmatters.org/environment/2022/02/california-drought-record-january-february/)

Sadly shipping water from QLD and NSW to California s not possible.

[austastar]

Hi,
Seriously, we need to rethink our residential zones.
The Bribane River (and others) have a city problem.
Cheers

[ramblingboy42]

I'm not sure how many times I've seen Brisbane River flood , but each time the media try to coerce locally affected people into blaming their misfortunes upon others.

There is not one single home owner , not one , who doesn't know the risk of living where they do. There really is no one to blame. Blame Hughie , he sent it down.

Same in Northern NSW River systems.

People are already saying its their home and they love and they wouldnt move....Kinda like "the Castle.

I have a cousin was evacuated from his Norman Pk home , an old Qlder, which paid 1.2 for last year. He's not leaving either.

So be climate skeptical, ignore climate change and whatever it's causes may be , live in your castle , but the next flood will be sooner . Those who live in flood zones know they do.

If you feel for these people there is mud army 2.0 forming right now.

[JDNSW]

Hi,
Seriously, we need to rethink our residential zones.
The Bribane River (and others) have a city problem.
Cheers

I remember my father saying the same, looking at the pictures of Lismore in the morning paper - about seventy years ago! (Actually I think it was 1954!).

[Hogarthde]

Similar to building on the ocean frontage; The sun and moon align, high tide, strong wind,large wave movement , and there goes the front lawn, and this little black duck has little sympathy.

[NavyDiver]

Similar to building on the ocean frontage; The sun and moon align, high tide, strong wind,large wave movement , and there goes the front lawn, and this little black duck has little sympathy.

some make it magic https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/76abac450452994ff979ac1f6a085bc5


Back on water for a second"Roughly half the world’s population currently faces severe water scarcity (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/06/climate/world-water-stress.html) at least part of the year."

"“One of the most striking conclusions in our report is that we’re seeing adverse impacts that are much more widespread and much more negative than expected,” said Camille Parmesan, an ecologist at the University of Texas, Austin, and one of the researchers who prepared the report."

Ominous stuff! We'll all be rooned said hanrahan

"If global warming reaches 1.5 degrees Celsius — as is now likely within the next few decades — roughly 8 percent of the world’s farmland could become unsuitable for growing food, the authors wrote.
"


A report worth considering I think

"The report is part of the sixth major assessment of climate science from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which was created in 1988. The first report in the series (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/climate/climate-change-report-ipcc-un.html), released last August, examined the science behind how human activity is heating the planet. A separate report, expected this spring, will explore strategies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and halt warming"

Our Droughts, fires and floods here not exempt of course.

The QLD/NSW flood levels records are falling faster than the flood waters recede.

The "First Time Ever this has happened" seem to be getting rather too common.

[RANDLOVER]

I'm not sure how many times I've seen Brisbane River flood , but each time the media try to coerce locally affected people into blaming their misfortunes upon others.

There is not one single home owner , not one , who doesn't know the risk of living where they do. There really is no one to blame. Blame Hughie , he sent it down.

Same in Northern NSW River systems.

People are already saying its their home and they love and they wouldnt move....Kinda like "the Castle.

I have a cousin was evacuated from his Norman Pk home , an old Qlder, which paid 1.2 for last year. He's not leaving either.

So be climate skeptical, ignore climate change and whatever it's causes may be , live in your castle , but the next flood will be sooner . Those who live in flood zones know they do.

If you feel for these people there is mud army 2.0 forming right now.

If you're not going to spend any time in the mud army, how about some time on empathy training?

[NavyDiver]

If you're not going to spend any time in the mud army, how about some time on empathy training?

So many Never happened before!

- 1637mm at Mount Glorious, QLD
- 1180mm at Pomona, QLD
- 1094mm at Bracken Ridge
Brisbane has absolutely smashed its three-day rainfall record with 677mm, by recording over 200mm each day for three days in a row.

Dunoon in NSW recorded the second-highest daily rainfall total in NSW when 775mm fell in just the 24 hours to 9am Monday.
Doon Doon in NSW picked up a whopping 1040mm of rain in just the 48 hours to 9am Tuesday. That is over a metre of rain in just two days.

More extreme weather is forecast over the coming days as an east coast low develops off the NSW coast.
Severe thunderstorm warnings are in place for large parts of New South Wales this evening and flood watches are in place for parts of the NSW coast from Newcastle to Bega, pushing down into Victoria.
How unusual is all this rain we'''re having? The answer? Very - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-01/weather-explainer/100873014)


Tassie getting a look in as well. Statistics are a bit bar humbug. The sheer volumes and wide spread size is as stated Very unusual. Not predictable and give many of the home sunk were not in flood zones and had flood insurance the owners and insurance industry both must be going WOW. All the share market listed ones are down 2-5% for good reasons.
Tropical down pours are amazing to be in. The localized nature of them in the past is normal. Heavy rain in Sydney is as well at times.

Hearding cattle by canoe is cool. keep safe

https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/963c8dc57eb13dda1b173eb9195a08c0?impolicy=wcms_cro p_resize&cropH=864&cropW=1536&xPos=0&yPos=702&width=862&height=485

[scarry]

So many Never happened before!

- 1637mm at Mount Glorious, QLD
- 1180mm at Pomona, QLD
- 1094mm at Bracken Ridge
Brisbane has absolutely smashed its three-day rainfall record with 677mm, by recording over 200mm each day for three days in a row.

Dunoon in NSW recorded the second-highest daily rainfall total in NSW when 775mm fell in just the 24 hours to 9am Monday.
Doon Doon in NSW picked up a whopping 1040mm of rain in just the 48 hours to 9am Tuesday. That is over a metre of rain in just two days.

More extreme weather is forecast over the coming days as an east coast low develops off the NSW coast.
Severe thunderstorm warnings are in place for large parts of New South Wales this evening and flood watches are in place for parts of the NSW coast from Newcastle to Bega, pushing down into Victoria.
How unusual is all this rain we'''re having? The answer? Very - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-01/weather-explainer/100873014)


Tassie getting a look in as well. Statistics are a bit bar humbug. The sheer volumes and wide spread size is as stated Very unusual. Not predictable and give many of the home sunk were not in flood zones and had flood insurance the owners and insurance industry both must be going WOW. All the share market listed ones are down 2-5% for good reasons.
Tropical down pours are amazing to be in. The localized nature of them in the past is normal. Heavy rain in Sydney is as well at times.

Hearding cattle by canoe is cool. keep safe

https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/963c8dc57eb13dda1b173eb9195a08c0?impolicy=wcms_cro p_resize&cropH=864&cropW=1536&xPos=0&yPos=702&width=862&height=485




And more rain forecast here for end of week and weekend[bigsad]

[V8Ian]

After a warm, clear day here, it just started raining heavily again.

[ramblingboy42]

Back on water for a second"Roughly half the world’s population currently faces severe water scarcity at least part of the year."....quote

bring on the revised...note revised....Bradfield Scheme Mk11.....it would work...whats a few billion? political campaign money....

[ramblingboy42]

If you're not going to spend any time in the mud army, how about some time on empathy training?

how about some starc reality checks?

I showed empathy nominating the mud army....didnt you read that bit?

where did I say that I wasn't going to spend any time with the mud army?

did I mention that I opened my laundry/ bathroom / spare sleeping facilities for some that need it.?

jumped in half cocked did we?

[Tote]

Back on water for a second"Roughly half the world’s population currently faces severe water scarcity at least part of the year."....quote

bring on the revised...note revised....Bradfield Scheme Mk11.....it would work...whats a few billion? political campaign money....

Sadly the Bradfield scheme has been thoroughly debunked as not viable..Fact Check: Why has the Bradfield Scheme been rejected so many times? (https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/06/18/bradfield-scheme-fact-check/) much to Barnaby and Pauline's disappointment

Regards,
Tote

[V8Ian]

A far greater impact upon previously unflooded properties, by climate change, is developer's greed.
Developers are prepared to wreck environments, carving up any type of land, in their endless quest for obscene wealth.
As a case point, consider North Lakes, between Kallangur and Redcliffe Queensland.
It has always been open ground with a smattering of fruit stalls and a small cultivated area of mango trees; for good reason, it was a natural flood plain, regularly going underwater in moderate rain.
Development saw the area built-up and leveled, increasing the average elevation over two metres.
Almost 8,000 miniscule residential blocks were formed plus a massive commercial and retail precinct. The area is now more than 90% covered in bitumen and concrete. The result is twofold, firstly all the water that used to drain into the area has to now go elsewhere and secondly, all the rain that fell and soaked into the ground there, now has to also go elsewhere. That elsewhere is Rothwell and beyond, flooding houses that previously never flooded, even in 1974.
But hey, that's alright, the rich are getting richer at the expense of ordinary, working Australian families. The council officers who approved this development were either on the take or grossly incompetent.
This is not an isolated case, this is happening all over Australia.

[RANDLOVER]

And more rain forecast here for end of week and weekend[bigsad]

Which is a worry, I live on a bit of a hill and water is still seeping out of my front lawn into my drains, and I can hear water roaring in the storm water drains in the streets around my place, I suspect the most of SEQ is like this, so any rain is just going to sheet off.

[scarry]

A far greater impact upon previously unflooded properties, by climate change, is developer's greed.
Developers are prepared to wreck environments, carving up any type of land, in their endless quest for obscene wealth.
As a case point, consider North Lakes, between Kallangur and Redcliffe Queensland.
It has always been open ground with a smattering of fruit stalls and a small cultivated area of mango trees; for good reason, it was a natural flood plain, regularly going underwater in moderate rain.
Development saw the area built-up and leveled, increasing the average elevation over two metres.
Almost 8,000 miniscule residential blocks were formed plus a massive commercial and retail precinct. The area is now more than 90% covered in bitumen and concrete. The result is twofold, firstly all the water that used to drain into the area has to now go elsewhere and secondly, all the rain that fell and soaked into the ground there, now has to also go elsewhere. That elsewhere is Rothwell and beyond, flooding houses that previously never flooded, even in 1974.
But hey, that's alright, the rich are getting richer at the expense of ordinary, working Australian families. The council officers who approved this development were either on the take or grossly incompetent.
This is not an isolated case, this is happening all over Australia.

Yarrabilba is another example of huge development.Even the road going out there from Waterford is still one lane each way,a real joke.They have been flooded in since Saturday,and the water is still up today.

What about the people in some areas that bought land,built houses,on a condition the land is flood free,and now it’s under 2 M of water.This has happened in both Gympie and Lismore.

I recon we are slowly completely wrecking the place.Even Koalas are now on the endangered list[bigsad]

It’s definitely greed on the part of developers,happening everywhere.
The run off from all the new roads and houses must produce a lot more water than 20 yrs ago,but those in the council,government,what ever don’t give two hoots.

[NavyDiver]

Yarrabilba is another example of huge development.Even the road going out there from Waterford is still one lane each way,a real joke.They have been flooded in since Saturday,and the water is still up today.

What about the people in some areas that bought land,built houses,on a condition the land is flood free,and now it’s under 2 M of water.This has happened in both Gympie and Lismore.

I recon we are slowly completely wrecking the place.Even Koalas are now on the endangered list

It’s definitely greed on the part of developers,happening everywhere.
The run off from all the new roads and houses must produce a lot more water than 20 yrs ago,but those in the council,government,what ever don’t give two hoots.

A house built on a flood zone in a little place I have seen flooded or [B]impacted frequently by high tides has me amazed. Its a new build in Port Fairy on the river in a tidal zone[bigwhistle]

[austastar]

Hi,
I can remember a huge flood in the Sandy Bay Rivulet at the bottom of our block back in the 50s.
It took out several bridges, eroded a large part of our yard and flooded quite a few nearby houses.
One house owner then had his house jacked up about 1m and bricked and filled underneath.
To my knowledge, the Rivulet has not flooded since, which is strange.
Life is a bit of a lottery I guess.
Cheers

[Tombie]

A house built on a flood zone in a little place I have seen flooded or impacted frequently by high tides has me amazed. Its a new build in Port Fairy on the river in a tidal zone[bigwhistle]

Over here that wouldn’t get approval.

Following a small flood event in 2008 the rules here now require houses to be at a certain elevation depending on geographical location to prevent flooding.

[Saitch]

A far greater impact upon previously unflooded properties, by climate change, is developer's greed.
Developers are prepared to wreck environments, carving up any type of land, in their endless quest for obscene wealth.
As a case point, consider North Lakes, between Kallangur and Redcliffe Queensland.
It has always been open ground with a smattering of fruit stalls and a small cultivated area of mango trees; for good reason, it was a natural flood plain, regularly going underwater in moderate rain.
Development saw the area built-up and leveled, increasing the average elevation over two metres.
Almost 8,000 miniscule residential blocks were formed plus a massive commercial and retail precinct. The area is now more than 90% covered in bitumen and concrete. The result is twofold, firstly all the water that used to drain into the area has to now go elsewhere and secondly, all the rain that fell and soaked into the ground there, now has to also go elsewhere. That elsewhere is Rothwell and beyond, flooding houses that previously never flooded, even in 1974.
But hey, that's alright, the rich are getting richer at the expense of ordinary, working Australian families. The council officers who approved this development were either on the take or grossly incompetent.
This is not an isolated case, this is happening all over Australia.

I got offered that land, by the brothers that owned it originally. Forget their names. I think $200g was mentioned. That amount scared the living daylights out of me, at the time![biggrin]

[Tombie]

I got offered that land, by the brothers that owned it originally. Forget their names. I think $200g was mentioned. That amount scared the living daylights out of me, at the time![biggrin]

And that is why “the rich get richer”.

Many of us won’t take such risks (me included on many occasions).

[V8Ian]

I got offered that land, by the brothers that owned it originally. Forget their names. I think $200g was mentioned. That amount scared the living daylights out of me, at the time![biggrin]
Shame, it would've made a fantastic four wheel drive park and you could have cleaned up (excuse the pun) with a coin operated car wash. [bigwhistle]
Discount for AULRO members, of course? [bighmmm]

[scarry]

Over here that wouldn’t get approval.

Following a small flood event in 2008 the rules here now require houses to be at a certain elevation depending on geographical location to prevent flooding.

Same here, they generally go on 1974 flood levels.

But the big difference is flood levels,compared with run off from a heavy rain event or storm.

Many properties are being built, and are way above '74 flood level,but are being flooded due to run off.

There has been a huge amount of property development since '74,and changes to watercourses,etc.

[NavyDiver]

I read despite the floods parts of QLD are still in Drought- Bugger!

US is spreading the NOT joy

(CNN)The West is far from the only region experiencing remarkably dry weather so far this year. According to Thursday's report from the US Drought Monitor (https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap.aspx), more than 61% of the contiguous US is in some classification of drought (https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/17/weather/west-california-drought-maps/index.html).

It is the largest portion of the country in a state of drought since 2012 (https://twitter.com/DroughtCenter/status/1501913263704985601), the year when the continental US saw an all-time record of 65% during September.
And in recent weeks, drought has increased significantly. In the last month alone, the percentage of the continental US in drought has jumped from 55% to more than 61%, an increase of nearly 170,000 square miles; an area larger than the size of California.


keeps breaking records "The Colorado River below Hoover Dam in January. The US Drought Monitor reported Thursday that more than 61% of the Lower 48 is in drought."

177649

Hope they get a break soon as well.

QLD issue
Lingering western Queensland heatwave and drought forces axing of stock (https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2022-03-11/heat-wave-continues-drought-across-northern-queensland/100898654)
That must be so frustrating with large parts of the East Coast going into floods :(

[NavyDiver]

Worst in 1200 years is a BIG claim. Made by ’Kathleen Johnson, California Associate professor of Earth system science at the University of California, Irvine and others.

Bush fires raging are adding to the woes. I had hoped it might turn to flood issues by now[bighmmm]


"Western ‘Megadrought’ Is the Worst in 1,200 YearsAn exceptionally dry year in 2021 pushed the 22-year-long drought to the top of the record books

" Western 'Megadrought' Is the Worst in 1,200 Years - Scientific American (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/western-megadrought-is-the-worst-in-1-200-years/)

Re the fires. Its not close to peak heat time for their summer yet[tonguewink][tonguewink]

Water wars was I thought bit of waffle. Farmers are unhappy plus Hydro Electricity it a fizzer? 1930s "Dust Bowl drought (https://www.drought.gov/what-is-drought/historical-drought)" may be about to loose its crown as worst in US history?

The Map on the US government site has half of America in trouble. Home | Drought.gov (https://www.drought.gov/)

Makes me thirsty looking at it.

[superquag]

Here lies the real problem, no one is managing the population.
Consider this, 100 years ago, after WW1 the world population was around 1.3 billion.
Today we are surging past 7 billion, predicted to reach 15 billion around 2025 or 2030.

We have to be fed and watered, natural rain forests cleared for 'irrigated crops' to feed us.
Livestock has to be watered to feed us, not to mention filling the backyard pool in rich countries.
Huge increase in water demanding industries, to give us all the 'things we need'.

We are simply using more than the rains supply, don't fully blame the climate.
Verging on a disaster now, What about in 20 years?
Human behavior is what it is, do nothing until it happens.
So, how do we manage the world population? good luck with that.


The Conspiracy Theorists have a perfectly logical "suggestion" about this problem...

[NavyDiver]

"Where Lawns Are Outlawed (and Dug Up, and Carted Away)


With drought and growth taking a toll on the Colorado River, the source of 90 percent of the region’s water, a new law in Las Vegas mandates the removal of turf, patch by patch."
where does fido poo now?

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/04/25/climate/00cli-turfban8/merlin_204817773_455d3d9c-ab6a-43cf-b5b8-0d9990e78df9-superJumbo.jpg
Add that "
new pumping station at Lake Mead, part of a $1.5 billion project that will allow Southern Nevada to continue to receive water even as the lake level continues to drop.
"

20 years of planning for that 1.5 billion to keep the taps on is a wow plus. Link to story (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/03/climate/las-vegas-lawn-grass-ban.html)


I wonder if it will be hotter due to the grass being removed? Suspect so. Plenty of studies showing the treeless west of Melbourne is hotter than the leafy east.

[Tote]

I read the referenced story, its an interesting contrast between Vegas and Australian cities such as Broken hill which have never had the luxury of "unlimited" water in the first place and so have never developed the ability to create the illusion of a green oasis in the desert. For what it is worth dogs in Broken Hill can still find places to relieve themselves. Australia is also much more aligned to living with dry periods, if the grass dies due to lack of water at my place I am comfortable that it will grow back when it rains.....

The concept of "unlimited" resources that come from a tap is not only about water in the US though, I spent six weeks in Silicon Valley once and was constantly amazed at the spa in the hotel that was outdoors with no cover and was run at 40 degrees centigrade 24 hours a day. You could literally see the heat rising from the shed that held the natural gas heater. Locals just said "gas is cheap and plentiful so why not"

Regards,
Tote

[austastar]

Hi,
Leigh Creek, (mining town S.A.) had landscaping with desert plants and grasses planted amongst river gravel beside footpaths and divisions in the car park. Looked good if not viewed with Southern prejudice.
Cheers

[NavyDiver]

Hi,
Leigh Creek, (mining town S.A.) had landscaping with desert plants and grasses planted amongst river gravel beside footpaths and divisions in the car park. Looked good if not viewed with Southern prejudice.
Cheers
I love the sand in WA as well mate[biggrin] Often think lawns are far less desirable myself anyway. They made it illegal to have grass was the surprise
[bigrolf]

[JDNSW]

.........
The concept of "unlimited" resources that come from a tap is not only about water in the US though, I spent six weeks in Silicon Valley once and was constantly amazed at the spa in the hotel that was outdoors with no cover and was run at 40 degrees centigrade 24 hours a day. You could literally see the heat rising from the shed that held the natural gas heater. Locals just said "gas is cheap and plentiful so why not"

Regards,
Tote

The attitude is widespread, and not just in the US. It seems very few anywhere can see any problem with this sort of attitude applied to anything, from leaving the heat/aircon, TV, lights etc on when nobody is there, to chucking anything you don't need or don't like into landfill even though it is perfectly serviceable, to disposable everything.

I was brought up by two parents who lived through two world wars and the Great Depression, and had the concept of waste knocked into me from a very young age.

[Tombie]

The attitude is widespread, and not just in the US. It seems very few anywhere can see any problem with this sort of attitude applied to anything, from leaving the heat/aircon, TV, lights etc on when nobody is there, to chucking anything you don't need or don't like into landfill even though it is perfectly serviceable, to disposable everything.

I was brought up by two parents who lived through two world wars and the Great Depression, and had the concept of waste knocked into me from a very young age.

And yet sadly the current generations blame Boomers for wrecking the planet.

Whilst some may not have been. Many Boomers were frugal and ecologically (often driven by personal economics at the time) responsible by recycling or repairing.

Plastics everywhere now, recycled glass back then!
Paper or cloth shopping bags were the normal.

Serviceable home goods.

Yep. Todays attitude sucks! And I’m A few generations past boomer.

[JDNSW]

And yet sadly the current generations blame Boomers for wrecking the planet.

Whilst some may not have been. Many Boomers were frugal and ecologically (often driven by personal economics at the time) responsible by recycling or repairing.

Plastics everywhere now, recycled glass back then!
Paper or cloth shopping bags were the normal.

Serviceable home goods.

Yep. Todays attitude sucks! And I’m A few generations past boomer.

I don't qualify as a boomer - They are at least six years younger than I am!

[Homestar]

I wonder if it will be hotter due to the grass being removed? Suspect so. Plenty of studies showing the treeless west of Melbourne is hotter than the leafy east.

Could be a combination of less trees and more loud mouths out West (I live in the West so I can say that)… [emoji56][emoji38]

[NavyDiver]

Why is easy- hiding is not perhaps? "A prolonged megadrought in the American West caused the reservoir’s water levels to plunge to historic lows, and is unearthing some grim finds.Las Vegas Police were called to reports of a barrel containing human remains at Lake Mead National Recreation Area at around 5.45pm on 1 May.
“We believe this is a homicide as a result of a gunshot wound,” said Homicide Section Lt. Ray Spencer.
Detectives believe the victim was killed sometime in the mid ‘70s to early ‘80s, based on clothing and footwear the victim was found with."

A big dry 45 years ago found not so gruesome stuff in our dam. Hundreds of dead redfin and carp [bawl][bawl] And the bike - Not mine happily and the ride is still with us all very happily [bigrolf]

[NavyDiver]

Almost moved this to Current affairs inflation thread[bighmmm]

"Over a third of America's vegetables and two-thirds of its fruits and nuts are grown in California. But tens of thousands of acres lie idle because farmers can't get enough water to grow crops.
The impact may be seen on grocery store shelves next year, Bill Diedrich, a Californian farmer, told BBC. This season's produce shows up at shops next season, he explained as he showed his bone-dry fallowed fields. Typically, he would plant tomatoes for canning on this field but he didn't have enough water."

Hope it pours PLUS for the poor sods
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/A1F5/production/_125016414_image3.jpg


Noted that it might be possible to desalinate a bit of salty stuff if power was cheap enough. California is trying to extend the life of a nuclear plant which supplies 9% of that states power. "Diablo Canyon is the single-largest generator of zero-carbon energy in the state. The only thing the plant requires to continue operating is political leadership on the part of the governor. "

Scheduled to shut in 3 years[bigwhistle] Hydro power is clearly not going to help at all if years of heavy rain and snow falls do not occur in that area.

[NavyDiver]

Might need to change the threat to a billion+ thirsty people?

179095
Climbing to the bottom of a dry well for few drops is NOT in OH&S guidlines.

"India is the largest extractor of groundwater in the world - many still rely on it for their daily water supply.


But almost two-thirds of the country's districts are threatened by falling groundwater levels, the World Bank says (https://blogs.worldbank.org/endpovertyinsouthasia/india-seeks-arrest-its-alarming-decline-groundwater).


India is projected to face severe water stress by 2050, with 30 cities said (https://www.livemint.com/news/india/30-indian-cities-likely-to-face-acute-water-risks-by-2050-wwf-11604371789053.html) to fall in high-risk regions."

The world banks 2050 seem to have been about 30 years to late?

Madhya Pradesh: Viral video shows Indians risking life for water - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-61679615)




Poor sods!

Edit- Chennai with 4 million people looks tough! "Chennai's more than four million population is now relying solely on government tankers to provide their water. Others are paying large sums of money for private companies to supply water to their homes. Even then, it can take up to four days for the tanker to arrive.And the price of each tanker has quadrupled in the last month because water is so scarce."

Hope it rains in India!

[Saitch]

That's why they 'Bless the Rains Down in Africa'.

[NavyDiver]

"the air surrounding Salt Lake City would occasionally turn poisonous. The lake bed contains high levels of arsenic and as more of it becomes exposed, wind storms carry that arsenic into the lungs of nearby residents, who make up three-quarters of Utah’s population.“We have this potential environmental nuclear bomb that’s going to go off if we don’t take some pretty dramatic action,” said Joel Ferry, a Republican state lawmaker and rancher who lives on the north side of the lake." [bigwhistle]



La Niña could become the norm for Australiacollapse of this system — called the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation — would shift the Earth's climate to a more La Niña-like state. This would mean more flooding rains over eastern Australia and worse droughts and bushfire seasons over southwest United States.


Not good news for the dry in the US? Salt lake city looks grim. Mean while the best snow season in years here. Just wonder re wheat harvesting in Spring/summer IF this is all on the money?


The Great Salt Lake, which has already shrunk by two-thirds and is accelerating. Bit of a sticky situation.

[Saitch]

"the air surrounding Salt Lake City would occasionally turn poisonous. The lake bed contains high levels of arsenic and as more of it becomes exposed, wind storms carry that arsenic into the lungs of nearby residents, who make up three-quarters of Utah’s population.“We have this potential environmental nuclear bomb that’s going to go off if we don’t take some pretty dramatic action,” said Joel Ferry, a Republican state lawmaker and rancher who lives on the north side of the lake."



[B]La Niña could become the norm for Australia

collapse of this system — called the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation — would shift the Earth's climate to a more La Niña-like state. This would mean more flooding rains over eastern Australia and worse droughts and bushfire seasons over southwest United States.


Not good news for the dry in the US? Salt lake city looks grim. Mean while the best snow season in years here. Just wonder re wheat harvesting in Spring/summer IF this is all on the money?


The Great Salt Lake, which has already shrunk by two-thirds and is accelerating. Bit of a sticky situation.

'Thanks', ND.
Interesting.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/oceans/amoc

[NavyDiver]

'Thanks', ND.
Interesting.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/oceans/amoc

A farmer in my crew is really worried re this. Rain is great at the right time in crop farming. Some of the forecasts are impacting on both sides of the pacific.

On the bright side we may not be thirsty [bighmmm]

[350RRC]

A farmer in my crew is really worried re this. Rain is great at the right time in crop farming. Some of the forecasts are impacting on both sides of the pacific.

On the bright side we may not be thirsty [bighmmm]

Beer doesn't fall from the sky............... why worry?[biggrin]

[JDNSW]

Beer doesn't fall from the sky............... why worry?[biggrin]

I was under the impression that it depended on the barley harvest or something - which implies that it is weather dependent?

[NavyDiver]

Running out and using more water. The naughty crew get taps turned down in California
"This week came a measure of last resort. The local water agency began choking the taps of the worst offenders, limiting the water flow of those who flouted water conservation rules, paid the fines, and kept on flouting. Their showers will henceforth slow to a trickle. Sprinklers will be rendered unusable. Good luck refilling the pool. Or the koi pond.“This is not our preferred way of interacting with our customers,” "


Pumping rights for farms are shut or shutting. "California farms and Bay Area cities ordered to stop diverting water from rivers"

Dry arguments. Let them drink beer might be a little Marie Antoinette let them eat brioche Ian? [biggrin]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Marie-Antoinette%2C_1775_-_Mus%C3%A9e_Antoine_L%C3%A9cuyer.jpg/330px-Marie-Antoinette%2C_1775_-_Mus%C3%A9e_Antoine_L%C3%A9cuyer.jpg

[V8Ian]

Or chocolate eclairs[biggrin].

[NavyDiver]

Having worst drought in 70 years is painful after the mess they had for the last two years poor sods.

Heat wave in Japan as well. Bit hot up North?


Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-18/worst-drought-in-70-years-threatens-northern-italy-s-food-power)

[350RRC]

I was under the impression that it depended on the barley harvest or something - which implies that it is weather dependent?

Just tongue in cheek cynicism John. Gets me questioned every time by those who can't pick it.

take care, DL

[RANDLOVER]

People have to make ice tepees in the Himalayas due to changing weather patterns causing them to run out of glacier melt water. They are basically making their own glacier closer to home that melts at the right time.

Could Frozen Ice Sculptures Save a Himalayan Cold Desert? | Latest Science News and Articles | Discovery (https://www.discovery.com/science/frozen-ice-sculptures-could-save-a-himalayan-cold-desert)

[NavyDiver]

" A national emergency has been declared, and the UK's first red extreme heat warning issued,
London heatwave




A national emergency has been declared, and the UK's first red extreme heat warning issued, with temperatures possibly reaching 41C (106F). That would be the highest temperature ever recorded in the UK - above the current high of 38.7C in Cambridge in 2019."

Noting many English types visiting Australia strip off at 18c[bighmmm]

The tough bit is housing designed to survive sub zero may not be very helpful at 38 or above 40C.

EU heat wave is apparently due to a Climate change split weather system in their upper atmosphere? Bush fires and very hot in France and Spain among other places .

"Dr Eunice Lo, climate scientist at the University of Bristol in England, said ...."Scientists expect this record to be broken in the future because of climate change."Extreme heat can be deadly to people. Dr Lo said that on average, about 2,000 extra deaths in England are linked to heatwaves each year."

I hope the water hose and sprinklers are ready for them.

[Saitch]

I hope the water hose and sprinklers are ready for them.

Not to mention the hankie with four knots.

179834

[NavyDiver]

Not to mention the hankie with four knots.

179834

American trick needed as well Saitch :)

"In much of the United States, it’s hot out there. Still.
Many parts of the Central Plains and Texas are under heat advisories and warnings this weekend and will be well into the week in what is already a historically — and relentless — hot summer, forecasters with the National Weather Service said.
It might not be as hot as it was in recent weeks, but heat advisories will be in effect for much of the Central and Southern Plains, including the Oklahoma Panhandle, east toward most of Oklahoma and Arkansas, southwestern Missouri and southeastern Kansas, said Bob Oravec, a lead forecaster with the Weather Service. The extensive heat is contributing to droughts in a lot of those areas as well.

" "with predicted highs reaching 102 to 110 degrees,"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpktBGInl60

Edit- the whole song needed! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuCBXTfoVq8

[Grumbles]

"

"Dr Eunice Lo, climate scientist at the University of Bristol in England, said ...."Scientists expect this record to be broken in the future because of climate change."Extreme heat can be deadly to people. Dr Lo said that on average, about 2,000 extra deaths in England are linked to heatwaves each year."

Except that Englands unusually hot summers are not that hot when compared to many other countries where peoples do not die from heat. So is Dr Lo really saying that Englanders are genetically pre-disposed to dying from what is essentially an English only heat wave phenomenon.

We hear a lot about climate change and the blaming of mankind for it but generally do not consider all factors.

The sun is ignored as it is assumed to be a constant, unchanging source of light and heat whereas it is not. It goes through various cycles of differing heat and light outputs which do affect our climate.

[vnx205]

........
.......

We hear a lot about climate change and the blaming of mankind for it but generally do not consider all factors.

The sun is ignored as it is assumed to be a constant, unchanging source of light and heat whereas it is not. It goes through various cycles of differing heat and light outputs which do affect our climate.

The sun is not ignored.

Climate scientists have studied it and their conclusion is:
Over the last 35 years the sun has shown a cooling trend. However global temperatures continue to increase. If the sun's energy is decreasing while the Earth is warming, then the sun can't be the main control of the temperature.

https://skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm

[NavyDiver]

Still hotter

Western France is facing a "heat apocalypse", experts have warned, as extreme temperatures continue to hit much of Europe.


Temperatures could reach record levels in 15 regions of the southwest, with firefighters battling wildfires and thousands forced to evacuate.


Blazes in Spain, Portugal and Greece have forced thousands more to flee.


The Poms seem to be topping out at 35 (https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/uk) today. Records will fall tomorrow apparently

[Arapiles]

The tough bit is housing designed to survive sub zero may not be very helpful at 38 or above 40C.


Even slightly warm weather can be a problem in London because a lot of buildings, for example in the City, don't even have ventilation, let alone AC - in one of the buildings we were doing training in we had to open a window when it was about 28C.

[NavyDiver]

Even slightly warm weather can be a problem in London because a lot of buildings, for example in the City, don't even have ventilation, let alone AC - in one of the buildings we were doing training in we had to open a window when it was about 28C.

Sadly as expected and not over yet
"An extreme heat wave that meteorologists call an "apocalypse" broiled much of Europe and the United Kingdom on Monday, and hundreds of people died because of record high temperatures and ferocious wildfires.

At least 748 heat-related deaths have been reported in the heat wave in Spain and neighboring Portugal, where temperatures reached 117 degrees this month.

Wales reported its hottest temperature on record Monday of 95.5 degrees, the U.K. Met Office said.

"
Mean while we have a 1 degree shiver here![bigwhistle]

[spudfan]

This is for today where I live in Ireland. The temperature will peak at 20 degrees C at 12 noon. By 7.00pm it will have dropped to 11 degrees C.
For tomorrow 20th July the peak will be 14 degrees C
Thursday it is to peak at 16 degrees C.
Friday the peak will be at 18 degrees C and that will be hottest forecast until early next week,
You can check it out on XCWeather.co.uk and put in Carndonagh, which is not in the UK but it gives us a forecast!

[NavyDiver]

This is for today where I live in Ireland. The temperature will peak at 20 degrees C at 12 noon. By 7.00pm it will have dropped to 11 degrees C.
For tomorrow 20th July the peak will be 14 degrees C
Thursday it is to peak at 16 degrees C.
Friday the peak will be at 18 degrees C and that will be hottest forecast until early next week,
You can check it out on XCWeather.co.uk and put in Carndonagh, which is not in the UK but it gives us a forecast!

Cool Spudfan! Not much warmer than our cold winter Sir. News here just said it was over 1000 dead in the hot areas.

I used to wash my ship by chasing rain squalls out at sea. In shorts and sandles only as it was hot we would rinse. leave the rain, detergent then scrub then back in for a Rinse before getting all dressed up for entry into Port. Here I can have 30+ day and drive up a near by Mountain and have a mild 20 degree cool of most of the time in summer. Perhaps the pub with a guinness and a nice hot fire to warm up in summer for you mate.

42 now??? Wales record already. Learn to swim classes required!!!

The UK is set to see its hottest day on record, with temperatures on Tuesday expected to reach up to 42C (107.6). (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62217282)



A high of 38.1C was reached in Suffolk on Monday, just short of the UK record of 38.7C set in 2019. Wales recorded its hottest day on record with 37.1C.


The Met Office has issued a red extreme heat warning covering much of central, northern, and south-east England.


At least four people are believed to have drowned after attempting to escape the heat in rivers and lakes.


Network Rail has issued a "do not travel" warning for Tuesday affecting services travelling through the "red zone" of the Met Office's weather warning.

Just read a bit more- edit 3 :)

"Scotland and Northern Ireland also saw their warmest days of the year, with temperatures of 31.3C and 31.1C recorded in Aboyne, Aberdeenshire and Derrylin, Co Fermanagh respectively. Temperatures remained in the low and mid-20s overnight, raising the possibility the UK would also see its warmest night on record."

Just warmest day of the year not records- DOH. Is it that North Ireland divided issue Spudfan?

[spudfan]

[QUOTE=NavyDiver;3156471]Cool Spudfan! Not much warmer than our cold winter Sir. News here just said it was over 1000 dead in the hot areas.

I used to wash my ship by chasing rain squalls out at sea. In shorts and sandles only as it was hot we would rinse. leave the rain, detergent then scrub then back in for a Rinse before getting all dressed up for entry into Port. Here I can have 30+ day and drive up a near by Mountain and have a mild 20 degree cool of most of the time in summer. Perhaps the pub with a guinness and a nice hot fire to warm up in summer for you mate.

Can picture you you in a straw hat, or am I mixing you up with Lee Marvin in a film?[biggrin]

[spudfan]

Makes you realise how sensible and green flaps on a Land Rover were. No air conditioning needed. Just Mother Nature doing her job as you drove.

[350RRC]

Makes you realise how sensible and green flaps on a Land Rover were. No air conditioning needed. Just Mother Nature doing her job as you drove.

Just like the quarter vent windows in a 74 2 door RRC. [biggrin][thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig]

DL

[NavyDiver]

When our dam went dry in 1982 we found hundreds of very tasty redfin and a HUGE gold fish. About 6kg I think!


I wonder if ??

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/07/21/climate/21cli-coloradoriver1/merlin_204634344_24cc280b-02b8-4a44-b159-dcfd3cf3a568-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp

" Lone Rock Beach on Lake Powell in Utah,"

Off topic but 1982-83 was a dry argument :) I wonder if it has been beaten??

Federation and Meteorology, Australian Meteorology through the 20th Century, page 1612 (https://www.austehc.unimelb.edu.au/fam/1612.html)
The 1982–83 Drought In terms of short-term rainfall deficiencies (up to one year) and their impacts, the 1982–83 drought was probably Australia's worst in the twentieth century.

[spudfan]

We went to visit our daughter today and hit this coming home. The cars tried to avoid the water at the roundabout by going around it the WRONG way thus meeting oncoming traffic causing standstill and chaos. I went through it in the Puma and did not get caught in the gridlock. Yep summer is definately back..

[spudfan]

I have a basic weather station yoke on the wall..outside. So when it rains I can go out to my weather thing and confirm that it is indeed raining[bigwhistle]

[austastar]

Hi,
A piece of string does that AND tells you if it is windy.
If the string disappears, it's magpie nesting season.
Cheers

[NavyDiver]

I heard a pod cast on this years ago. It was G Bush senior and Margret Thatcher who they wanted undermined after they declared an emergency 30+ years ago.

"The audacious PR plot that seeded doubt about climate change" BBC version (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62225696)


Some of the miss information was swallowed by me [bighmmm][bighmmm][bighmmm] The Melbourne crew who contributed are still at it a bit. Just went for a walk with the dog along the yarra at Hawthorn. I may have walked past a mansion or two owned by one or two of the liars.

"Communications partner to change the narrative on climate change" Hundreds of Millions very well spent if you consider their goals:bat:

[vnx205]

Deniers have it easy.

They don't need to prove that the problem doesn't exist. They can achieve their goal just by creating a little doubt in people's minds about the evidence.

That tactic worked for the tobacco industry and it is working for the fossil fuel industry.

[Arapiles]

Deniers have it easy.

They don't need to prove that the problem doesn't exist. They can achieve their goal just by creating a little doubt in people's minds about the evidence.

That tactic worked for the tobacco industry and it is working for the fossil fuel industry.


It's purportedly the same PR companies involved.

Edit: yep, the guy discussed in the BBC article.

[NavyDiver]

Deniers have it easy.

They don't need to prove that the problem doesn't exist. They can achieve their goal just by creating a little doubt in people's minds about the evidence.

That tactic worked for the tobacco industry and it is working for the fossil fuel industry.

One of the biggest is it is only the others -left or green - who are the only concerned by climate change. George Bush and Margret Thatcher are far from the lunatic left some seem to assume are the only ones trying to see a brighter future.

The lies from tobacco have seem legal cases in the US already. Be nice to see liars held to account I think. Including a few Australians. [bigwhistle]

[Arapiles]

The comment about the media wanting contrarian views is interesting - the actual issue is that the (responsible) media want to, or are required to, provide "balance" by getting a differing opinion. That's fine with social or general news issues, but they shouldn't've been applying it to a scientific issue where there was broad consensus amongst scientists. It meant that the fringe contrarians were being presented as legitimate and that the issue was 50/50 - it's not. It's as if every time they discuss the world being a globe they have to "balance" it by giving air time to people who believe that the world is flat*.



*Flat earth - I presumed these people were joking but they're not - they actually believe that the world is flat.

[NavyDiver]

Flat earthers are not joking? Just a joke perhaps? [biggrin] Endlessly entertaining and very imaginative if you close your eyes and whistle

careful !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSnkWzZ7ZAA

Back on topic

The US drought is still WOW

Map released: Thurs. July 21, 2022
Data valid: July 19, 2022 at 8 a.m. EDT
Intensity

[B]None
D0 (Abnormally Dry)
D1 (Moderate Drought)
D2 (Severe Drought)
D3 (Extreme Drought)
D4 (Exceptional Drought)
No Data


Map has NO DO, D1 with a little bit of D2 Severe Drought and the rest is OUCH+ [bigwhistle]
| U.S. Drought Monitor (https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx?CA)"Extreme drought and inflationary pressures are forcing US farmers in Western states to sell off their cattle herds in greater numbers, at levels not seen in over a decade."

Pretty significant impacts on all farmers and farm types. . "California’s historic drought (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-28/megadrought-on-the-u-s-west-coast-threatens-blackouts) may leave the state with the largest amount of empty farmland in recent memory as farmers face unprecedented cuts to crucial water supplies.
The size of fields intended for almonds, rice, wine grapes and other crops left unworked could be around 800,000 acres, double the size of last year and the most in at least several decades, said Josue Medellin-Azuara (https://www.ucmerced.edu/content/josu%C3%A9-medellin-azuara), an associate professor at University of California Merced.

"

Poor sods.

Rain dance needed +++++++ heavy Snow

[NavyDiver]

Drain the swamp and look what they find? Just joking a bit Lake Mead is or was not a swamp![bighmmm]

More human remains found on July 25According to a news release from the National Park Service, another set of human remains was found at Lake Mead on July 25th, 2022.

[Saitch]

I wonder what would be found if Sydney Harbour was drained?

[NavyDiver]

I wonder what would be found if Sydney Harbour was drained?

I started my Navy Diving at the bottom of Sydney Harbour. Boats, bodies.............

A WW2 bomb from the bottom of a river went boom in Italy Saitch. The River is dry for the first time perhaps?


Thread title might need a population increase?? Europe, China, India.......?

Not always bad for everyone - [B]Ying and Yang! "In Le Pouliguen, western France, the evaporation of seawater is producing a record harvest of sea salt, Reuters news agency reports.
François Durand says the average yield was about 1.3 tonnes per salt pan over the last 10 years, but this year it is 2.5 tonnes"


On the other foot "More than 100 French municipalities are short of drinking water, which is being delivered by truck. There are widespread restrictions on watering gardens and golf courses, car-wash facilities have been closed and many fountains are now dry."


In pictures: Drought hits Europe'''s rivers and crops - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62466990)

The POMs suggest driest since 1935 (http://A bomb from the bottom of a river went boom Saitch) and "Water companies are warning that restrictions on household water use may be introduced."

I thought it always rained over there?

It used to be simple to lift 100,000 plus ships. Rain and lots of it was the trick. Back to the Americas "The Panama Canal is a great feat of 20th-Century engineering.


Upon its completion in 1914, this man-made waterway linking the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans nearly halved the travel time between the US West Coast and Europe.


To this day, ships have to pass through a series of locks to overcome the differences in height along its 50-mile (80km) length. They are lifted up to 85ft (26m) above sea level before being lowered again.


The canal's locks act as a kind of elevator, using enormous amounts of water released from artificial lakes at the top of mountains to raise the vessels, explains Mahelis de García, a Panama Canal guide."

They use a drip or two!!



" 55m gallons (250m litres) of fresh water is used, then released into the sea. On average, 37 ships go through the locks every day, using more than 2bn gallons (9bn litres) of fresh water."

[Saitch]

We may have to prepare for famine sooner than later? :spudnikcrazy::spudnikcrazy::spudnikcrazy:

11 Scientific Predictions for the upcoming Grand Solar Minimum (spoiler: wrap up, it's getting cold) - Electroverse (https://electroverse.co/11-scientific-predictions-for-the-upcoming-grand-solar-minimum/?fbclid=IwAR1yGTwPnUftZZyvvREV5mwxiURc4NU7HFiPkC0u aUZAfQPB0G4tU6TPwpQ)

[NavyDiver]

The Drought might be comming to a very very wet end?

The computer modeling suggesting this is amazing if true. Hope its not paywalled


The Coming California Megaflood - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/12/climate/california-rain-storm.html)

[RANDLOVER]

A drought may or may not be a drought officially in Qld it seems, as droughts are declared by secret committees.

Queensland farmers call for government review into drought declaration committees - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-16/call-for-review-on-queensland-drought-declaration-committee/101334496)

[ramblingboy42]

I see a whingeing post in face ache about european river cruises.

It appears some of the climate/drought affected rivers are now too shallow for some cruise boats thus causing long delays and cancellations.

I'm just wondering what it's going to take for populations/governments to accept or believe that climate change is causing/creating major problems on a global scale.

It is obviously not hurting enough yet , but it won't be long.

Hot potatoe Hot potatoe

[NavyDiver]

Great Ocean Road is on or beside the beach in several spots.

Sand Dunes are:
A- solid and never move
B- Blown by wind and water all the time
C- Blown by wind and water all the time despite millions/billions of silly SAVE ME


A bit past the Great Ocean road is a place I like.

https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/1ced654cd9c926b244d6a85f2a3415fb?impolicy=wcms_cro p_resize&cropH=506&cropW=900&xPos=167&yPos=64&width=862&height=485

"Committee member Ian Powell remembers when the original tip sites were used in the 1970s. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-31/port-fairy-takes-steps-to-fix-old-tip-site/11159736)"They were inland by 100 metres or more by the coast, so they were no problem then," Mr Powell said.
(https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-31/port-fairy-takes-steps-to-fix-old-tip-site/11159736)
"Over time, the erosion's taken place and it's only then they've become an issue. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-31/port-fairy-takes-steps-to-fix-old-tip-site/11159736)

"

The sea wall put in place over the last 100 years have all created problems either side of them in this black ducks thoughts.

Its a little like the people with houses in know flood areas. Coastal Zones have always also been in the firing line as people love them and they are as stable as what they are on. Rock- Millions of years, Sand- any way the wind blows ( or waves wash)

Edit add lots of rain to a high tide and Divers/boats neededPort Fairy Flooding - Drone Footage | After receiving more than a months rain in 2 days, Port Fairy, Victoria has had one of its worst floodings in over 20 years according to the State... | By Skyline Drone Imaging (https://www.facebook.com/skylinedroneimaging/videos/port-fairy-flooding-drone-footage/336672350896902/)

[JDNSW]

Another factor is the dams placed on the Murray system over the last hundred years or so have greatly reduced the volume of sediment feeding into the longshore drift east of the Murray mouth.

[NavyDiver]

"The Western U.S. is bracing for more extreme weather as some regions prepare for torrential rain and others for continuing extreme heat.
Monsoon rains are forecast to continue over the deserts in the Southwest and up into the Rocky Mountains, with potential for flash flooding in Arizona, Utah, Colorado and Wyoming on Sunday.

"

BBC view of a freeway washed away (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-62705240)


"A flood watch is in effect for more than 8 million Americans from Phoenix and Las Vegas all the way into Wyoming as that steady stream of moisture leads to flooding rain.
Among the first places to watch for flash flooding is along the burn scars of recent wildfires.

"

Suspect erosion is the result for fires then floods.


A lot of rain is needed of course.

[superquag]

Then..... All of a sudden, we are hit with TV news of China's terrible drought, whole rivers dried up.... cutting Hydro generation ... and a reason for them planning to build more (?) COAL fired stations... Y'know, the dirty CO2 belching things wot makes Climate Change .... which warms the planet and causes droughts.

Funny, that said TV News reports were SO delayed in getting here.

Not just hydro going down what was 'The Gurgler'... but farmers with failing / failed crops is causing consternation, and their Economy gunna take a hit. - Who knows what that'll do to their manufacturing output / cheap renewables such as PV arrays and wind turbines !
- Maybe those shortages will bite the rest of the world as much as China. ?

[Arapiles]

It's all looking a lot like The Day After Tomorrow. Just need the troposphere touching down somewhere and we're there.

[NavyDiver]

It's all looking a lot like The Day After Tomorrow. Just need the troposphere touching down somewhere and we're there.
its a crazy world- Two legionnaire's cases at work and "A recent study (https://apnews.com/article/science-oceans-glaciers-greenland-climate-and-environment-9cd7662658ebbeaba05682352de8aa87) says this amount of ice melt is expected to raise the global sea level by a minimum of 10.6 inches, leading to severe storms, flooding (https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a29444278/flash-floods/), and higher tides.
During the good old days in Greenland, endless ice seemed a permanent part of the landscape—but its future is destined to look much different. The warming power of climate change (https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/green-tech/a39642200/united-nations-climate-change-report-april-2022/) is enough to chip away at chunks of frozen ice sheets called “doomed ice” and “zombie ice” that will melt and raise the global sea (https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/g210/strange-sea-animals-2/) level by at least 10.6 inches, according to a study published Monday (https://go.redirectingat.com/?id=74968X1553576&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nature.com%2Farticles%2Fs415 58-022-01441-2&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.popularmechanics.com%2Fscie nce%2Fenvironment%2Fa41030694%2Fdoomed-zombie-ice-melting-greenland%2F) in the journal Nature Climate Change."

Some dayz it seems nuts yet other bits seem so cool I may be happy? [bigwhistle]

Cooked the coolest steak. Grated parsnip, chilli, mint, lime, spring onion, fried beans on rice omg it rocked and my design so even happier[thumbsupbig] fish sauce, Mirin, sugar and and few other bits....

[NavyDiver]

More water more fish? Not sure if it helps all drought areas of course.

"Zombie ice from Greenland will raise sea level 10 inches

"

Great headline? Link (https://apnews.com/article/science-oceans-glaciers-greenland-climate-and-environment-9cd7662658ebbeaba05682352de8aa87)

180668

How much is a given and how much more??? "The unavoidable ten inches in the study is more than twice as much sea level rise as scientists had previously expected from the melting of Greenland’s ice sheet. The study in the journal Nature Climate Change said it could reach as much as 30 inches (78 centimeters). By contrast, last year’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report projected a range of 2 to 5 inches (6 to 13 centimeters) for likely sea level rise from Greenland ice melt by the year 2100."

Bragging about 9 or 10 inches is not proper? I had to check. It is 25.4cm [bigwhistle]

[ramblingboy42]

what I was looking for was date/time for the 25.4 cm ocean rise to be effective , which appears to be in 75yrs , which equates to 3.5mm. approx sea level rise per year.

ok you mathematicians who love a good challenge.....if we get an ocean rise of any significance, then river systems flowing to the sea will remain that amount deeper...ok? agreed?

that means that Khati Thanda will hold more water progressively. If the lake deepens by the 25,4cm how much larger will its surface area become?

will William Ck be under water?

btw , there is a lot more ice melting than just greenland.

none of you reading will need a boat.....you'll be dead

[JDNSW]

what I was looking for was date/time for the 25.4 cm ocean rise to be effective , which appears to be in 75yrs , which equates to 3.5mm. approx sea level rise per year.

ok you mathematicians who love a good challenge.....if we get an ocean rise of any significance, then river systems flowing to the sea will remain that amount deeper...ok? agreed?

that means that Khati Thanda will hold more water progressively. If the lake deepens by the 25,4cm how much larger will its surface area become?

will William Ck be under water?

btw , there is a lot more ice melting than just greenland.

none of you reading will need a boat.....you'll be dead

No. River gradients will have changed, but it won't be that simple. The gradient (and hence flow rate) close to the see will decrease, so the river will spread out more, but once the current river surface gets more than a metre or so above sea level the river will not change. not immediately anyway, but the lower flow rates near the mouth will lead to increased sediment deposition, which will progressively obstruct the river upstream, but only slowly.

[NavyDiver]

Records are cool at times. This was HOT. China has just had a 3 months heat wave. I think Spain and other places gave it a very good shake as well!

The big dry in some parts of the US, China and other places such as France and Germany conversely record rains and floods might be confusong to some.

50 years ago a very smart person was ignored almost. He was very very close to being on the money!
What the controversial 1972 'Limits to Growth' report got right: Our choices today shape future conditions for life on Earth (https://theconversation.com/what-the-controversial-1972-limits-to-growth-report-got-right-our-choices-today-shape-future-conditions-for-life-on-earth-184920)
One of Disco Mick quoted papers/web site the guardian covers it very well I think

A remarkably accurate global warming prediction, made in 1972


A paper (http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=15752468459985585088&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5) published in Nature in 1972 accurately predicted the next 30 years of global warming



Man-made Carbon Dioxide and the “Greenhouse” Effect
50 years ago. Who would have thought we has such smartpeople. Who thinks some people like keeping a lid on some information?

[NavyDiver]

Fires over in the US are having a little bit of cooler and humidity helping right now. Thats good. National Geographic seems very pessimistic?
The drought in the western U.S. could last until 2030After a brutally hot and dry 2021, the region is now in the worst "megadrought" in 1,200 years. Climate change is to blame (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/the-drought-in-the-western-us-could-last-until-2030).




Always thought Australia was the 1st Place for Droughts and then 1st place for floods at times. Cheecky buggers OS seem to be stealing our thunder ?

A quick look later perhaps NatGeo is not the only one.
The American West is experiencing its driest period in human history

They have seven statistics which are a bit WOW (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/3589671-seven-stats-that-explain-the-wests-epic-drought/),

"The drought has a 75 percent chance of lasting through 2030. A February study published in the journalNature Climate Changefound that not only is the drought the worst since the year 800, it’s set to persist.
The analysis found a 94 percent chance the drought lasts into next year at least, and likely much longer.

"

Statistics are not really my cup of cha for predictions and forecasts. Hope it gets wet for them and dry for others- Would not get those two mixed up of course!

[RANDLOVER]

The drought in California is making them come up with some clever ideas, like covering their irrigation canals in solar panels instead of concrete.

California to install solar panels over canals to fight drought, a first in the U.S. - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-solar-panels-canals-drought/)

[NavyDiver]

The drought in California is making them come up with some clever ideas, like covering their irrigation canals in solar panels instead of concrete.

California to install solar panels over canals to fight drought, a first in the U.S. - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-solar-panels-canals-drought/)

And stop them shutting off the biggest C02 carbon free power source! [bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

Saw a interesting analysis of water use <15% was home and business. 85% was for food/farming. That has huge implications for them as it is the food bowl of America.

They put Nuclear in "Total Thermal and Non-Renewable (https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2021-total-system-electric-generation)" not by C02 emissions which is a bias I feel. They forecast loosing Diablo Cannon just last year (https://sd13.senate.ca.gov/news/getting-to-zero/august-25-2021/californias-largest-sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions). It is very clear the Hydro power might go sooner than later "Low Water Levels At Hoover Dam, Glen Canyon Dam Threaten Power Supply (https://www.newsy.com/stories/critically-low-water-levels-threaten-power-supply/)"

Our dams are nice and full down here in Mexico [thumbsupbig]

[NavyDiver]

It wet wet wet here right now!

Not so in some part of the US still
"Years of drought exacerbated by a warming planet, the great reservoirs of the Colorado River are at historic lows. The dramatic shrinking of Lake Mead near Las Vegas and Lake Powell above the Grand Canyon has prompted the Biden administration to call for the river basin states to cut their river water use by 25 percent next year or face federally mandated cuts. While the greatest proportion of California’s share goes to the Imperial Valley to irrigate crops, the river is also an important water source"

The 40,000,000 thirsty people line is looking sadly on the money. Mexico not seeming to be part of the conversation?

"For nearly a decade, Texas has battled New Mexico over its share of the waters of the Rio Grande. On October 25, the two states announced that they reached a long-awaited settlement in the lawsuit, Texas v. New Mexico and Colorado, No. 141 Original. Though the settlement details are confidential, El Paso Matters reported that it was a “carve-out decree (https://elpasomatters.org/2022/10/25/rio-grande-water-trial-upended-by-texas-new-mexico-settlement-draft/).” That means it resolves only the dispute between Texas and New Mexico, according to Jeffrey Wechsler, special assistant to the New Mexico Attorney General, not federal claims against New Mexico.

link (https://www.hcn.org/articles/south-water-the-history-behind-the-new-mexico-texas-rio-grande-settlement)

The Rio Grande flows nearly 2,000 miles from its headwaters in Colorado’s San Juan Mountains to its mouth near the border cities of Brownsville, Texas, and Matamoros, Tamaulipas, in Mexico. Over the last century, diversions for agriculture and cities such as Albuquerque and El Paso have strained the river. It regularly dries up for a stretch along the U.S.-Mexico border, and this year ran dry in Albuquerque as well."


People, animals and agriculture are a bit more than dry.

On a related topic as it shows why water can move 1000s of km or more in massive amounts

What are atmospheric rivers?
In February 2022, one dumped cubic kilometres of water onto the city of Brisbane. An atmospheric river is a narrow, fast-flowing stream of moist air. It can be many thousands of kilometres long, and a few hundred wide. It’s a giant and invisible conveyor belt of water in the sky, moving above and across the planet.
At any given moment, there are about a dozen of these atmospheric phenomena across the globe – most of them over water. But, unlike a land-based river, they are not fixed in location. Instead, they continually form, fade, reform and evolve. So they come and go.

What are atmospheric rivers? - Australian Geographic (https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/blogs/dr-karl-need-to-know/2022/10/what-are-atmospheric-rivers/)

[discomatt69]

what is the real issue though?
Global warming? Yes
What causes global warming?
Human activity and the life we now 8 billion want to live.
I would suggest we stop doing what most in the medical profession seem to do half the time and stop treating the symptoms and look at the cause.
Over population, inequality when it comes to resources, education and wealth
Mother nature will win eventually, I have no concerns about nature, that will heal itself over millions of years, the real concern is the next 100 years for the long term viability of humans.

[NavyDiver]

what is the real issue though?
Global warming? Yes
What causes global warming?
Human activity and the life we now 8 billion want to live.
I would suggest we stop doing what most in the medical profession seem to do half the time and stop treating the symptoms and look at the cause.
Over population, inequality when it comes to resources, education and wealth
Mother nature will win eventually, I have no concerns about nature, that will heal itself over millions of years, the real concern is the next 100 years for the long term viability of humans.

Do NOT listen to What Peat can tell us (https://open.spotify.com/episode/1tDaJIQnrSOs3sKo9RSx8B'si=0d5ab9ef0bad4845)

Do not listen to minute 40-45 re sea leave change![bigwhistle]

Going for a run can be interesting - Happily a new PB I have been unable to run at 4 min pace much at all for 3 years. I was up to 400-600m with a LOT of puffing and a bit of pain.

Nailed ONE km yesterday in < 4 minutes- Run repeat and do it again now will make it soo much better[thumbsupbig]

[NavyDiver]

Bit of rain and a bit of snow - storms welcomed of course.

Really a sip only according to the Americans sadly



"Last week’s winter storm was enough to keep Northern California indoors, but not enough to significantly move the needle on the state’s drought conditions. The U.S. Drought Monitor, in a weekly update published Thursday, reports the entire state at “abnormally dry” conditions. Close to 98% of the area is experiencing “moderate drought” conditions, 80.6% of the land is in “severe drought,” 35.5% of the state is in “extreme drought” and 7.16% of the state is suffering “exceptional drought conditions.” This week’s numbers show improvement compared to last week. “Moderate” conditions dropped by more than one percentage point and “severe” and “extreme” conditions statuses decreased more than four points. The proportion of the state with “exceptional” conditions decreased by more than five points.

Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/water-and-drought/article270054427.html#storylink=cpy"


Africa is screaming about drought- Unicef states "Over 20 million people, including 10 million children, in Djibouti, Ethiopia, Kenya and Somalia will need water and food assistance through 2022. As severe malnutrition and the risk of water-borne disease collide, children could die in devastating numbers unless urgent support is provided."

Things dry seem odd with floods here at present. It seems all related of course- wetter one place Drier at others is not unusual. The scale of the wet and dry seems ??? Africa is a big place of course "Extreme rainfall triggered deadly flooding across West Africa recently"

"More than 800 people were killed over June-October and tens of millions more were displaced. In Nigeria (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/17/world/africa/nigeria-floods.html) and Niger (https://www.africanews.com/2022/09/19/nearly-160-dead-and-225-000-affected-in-nigers-rains/), the floods were among the deadliest on record. In Nigeria alone, floodwater inundated hundreds of thousands of hectares of land, displacing 1.3 million people (https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/10/1129787) and damaging more than a million hectares of farmland (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/nigeria-facing-hunger-crisis-flooding-wipes-farmland-food-production/). Among the country’s dead are 76 people (https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1579449416586592257) who were killed when a boat carrying flood victims capsized.

very Wet and very Dry [bighmmm]

"

[NavyDiver]

This might help water at least?

Incoming USA weather BOMB

"US winter storm expected to collide with peak holiday travel

People in the US are preparing for some of the coldest weather in recent memory as the country heads into the Christmas holiday season.

"

Hope they fixed up those tropical/hot weather gas and electricity lines in Texas.


Also hope as well its not as bad as this forecast!
"A ‘once in a generation’ winter storm will impact nearly every state and cripple Christmas travel

The strengthening storm will bring more than a foot of snow and possible blizzard conditions to the Midwest, as the weather service warns of “life-threatening” (https://www.preview.cnn.com/2022/12/20/health/cold-weather-safety-advice-wellness/index.html) wind chills for millions.
More than 90 million people are under winter weather alerts and more than 87 million are under wind chill alerts. The alerts stretch across 37 states, dipping as far south as the Texas/Mexico border. CNN link (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/21/weather/christmas-arctic-winter-storm-wednesday-wxn/index.html)

"

Its 26+ outside here in our Australian Mexico [bigwhistle] Noting is was snowing in some mountains here just last week[biggrin]

One year ago a storm was a huge problem for the US. Both seem to missed or will miss the catchments for the Colorado river unfortunately


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU-t0_9E4g0

[NavyDiver]

Atmospheric River Arrives in California
This is the third storm to march through the state in less than two weeks. Another is expected for the weekend.


this view of it is cool https://www.nytimes.com/article/california-storm-maps-weather-rain.htm (https://www.nytimes.com/article/california-storm-maps-weather-rain.html?name=styln-california-storm&region=TOP_BANNER&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=Article&variant=show&is_new=false)

Looks like it may be a bit too coastal for the

Western Australia sourced much of its moisture from a so-called "atmospheric river" that continues to head eastwards." Lake Argyle Ord River is happily at 84.8% from the new very heavy rain falls.

[RANDLOVER]

............... Noting is was snowing in some mountains here just last week[biggrin]
..............

I have Foxtail palms seeds that have sprouted in my garden which according to the literature should be impossible, as ground temps too cold in Brisbane.

[Tombie]

I have Foxtail palms seeds that have sprouted in my garden which according to the literature should be impossible, as ground temps too cold in Brisbane.

Nah! Happily grow in 30f temps so no problem in Brissy.

Bloody things are everywhere down here too.

[NavyDiver]

Hope some things are wrong. Evidence suggests otherwise saddly

In China, 1 million people are at risk from glacier-melt flooding, a disaster threat set to grow with global warming

Glacial lake outburst floods – or GLOFs – threaten 15 million people around the world, including vulnerable populations in western China
New Zealand academic says governments could encourage residents to move from the danger zone, while reserving high-risk areas for agriculture only


In China, 1 million people are at risk from glacier-melt flooding, a disaster threat set to grow with global warming | South China Morning Post (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3209379/china-1-million-people-are-risk-glacier-melt-flooding-disaster-threat-set-grow-global-warming'module=lead_hero_story&pgtype=homepage)

Ice Melts is a known know

"The global study by researchers in Britain and New Zealand found that across the world, 15 million people who live within 50km (31 miles) of a glacial lake could be under threat from floods, a risk that will grow amid changes to the climate (https://www.scmp.com/topics/climate-change'module=inline&pgtype=article)."


Not a issue in OZ of course. No Australian Glaciers, NZ has a few of course. Very beautiful in my recollection.

[NavyDiver]

glad to hear some are less in trouble with drought. "LOS ANGELES (AP) — Tremendous rains and snowfall since late last year have freed half of California from drought, but low groundwater levels remain a persistent problem, U.S. Drought Monitor data showed Thursday.
The latest survey (https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx?CA) found that moderate or severe drought covers about 49% of the state, nearly 17% of the state is free of drought or a condition described as abnormally dry. The remainder is still abnormally dry." Half Of California Freed From Drought Thanks To Rain, Snow | HuffPost Latest News (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/california-drought_n_6401b93be4b08223f12de06d)

February has been kind[thumbsupbig]

[NavyDiver]

"In 1963, humans stopped time, when the brand new Glen Canyon Dam (https://www.usbr.gov/uc/rm/crsp/gc/) on the Utah-Arizona border cut off the reddish sediment that naturally eroded the Grand Canyon. Today the river runs vodka clear from the base of the dam.
But the silt never ceased arriving in Lake Powell (https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/sir20225017), the reservoir above the dam. Each day on average for the past 60 years, the equivalent of 61 supersize Mississippi River barge-loads of sand and mud have been deposited there. The total accumulation would bury the length of Manhattan to a depth of 126 feet — close to the height of a 12-story building.
"

Thats a lot of mud. Interesting as during a Drought in Vic 1982-1983 our dam went dry- Besides a LOT of fish yabbies and a huge red gold fish that had become FishZilla[bigrolf] . The Old Cocky whose family had dug the dam looked as was shocked it was less than 1/2 the depth it was when he saw it before any water was in it. He had a picture.

A little digging later 40 odd tonnes of silt and stuff was removed - case of beer for the road work grader driver I think[bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]


Back the the MUD

" Colorado have drawn the reservoir down to record lows, the silt is exposed — forming “mud glaciers.” And because of a gradient created when the lake level falls, the giant mud blobs are moving at a rate of 100 feet or more per day toward the dam."


I had not thought of that myself-

"These advancing mud blobs pose existential threats to the water supply of the Southwest: One day they could form a constipating plug that blocks Glen Canyon, preventing the water from flowing downriver. They could also someday endanger the structural integrity of the dam."

Electricity now!

"Lake Mead would start filling up with sediment, eventually becoming useless, with mud eventually replacing all the water behind Hoover Dam."

Very interesting to alarming for some I assume!

Dale Maharidge: The Colorado River is running dry, but nobody wants to talk about the mud (https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2023/03/21/dale-maharidge-colorado-river-is/)

[JDNSW]

Sediment buildup is a well known problem with ant dam. An interesting book I have on the history of dams has a picture of an ancient Roman dam in spain - the dam is filled to the top of the wall, and the stream has cut a new channel through this flat land and down through the dam wall almost to the base of the dam. The surrounding flat is used as a successful orchard!

Many dams are set up with a floodgate near the bottom which can be opened periodically to flush the mud downstream.

[cripesamighty]

Kinda like these...

See What Happens A Huge Dam Is Opened After Years - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGw1ZPgyEaE)

and from a different angle

Look What Happens When a Huge Dam Is Opened ! #3 | Dam Water Release | Pressure - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-GGZahNzcs)

another one...

Look What Happens When a Huge Dam Is Opened ! | Dam Water Release | Pressure |Dam Waterfall - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nak5NBJou9Q)

[austastar]

Hi,
I think beaver dams eventually silt up to form beaver meadows. Similar may happen with modern concrete dams with out planning. The potential energy stored in the mud could be scary!
Cheers

[NavyDiver]

Lots of rain and snow- 20 bad and 1 good = still crook


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKupKoci1_Y

[350RRC]

"[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Georgia]In 1963, humans stopped time, when the brand new Glen Canyon Dam (https://www.usbr.gov/uc/rm/crsp/gc/) on the Utah-Arizona border cut off the reddish sediment that naturally eroded the Grand Canyon. Today the river runs vodka clear from the base of the dam...................

Tooroorong Reservoir, just north of Whittlesea, is actually the silt trap for Yan Yean.

In the closed catchment there are miles and miles of cut stone channels from all the off takes.

The whole system is quite remarkable, dating back to the 1880's.

Also of note is the off take on Wallaby Ck which directs water south into this system.

Wallaby Ck naturally flows around a spur after this off take, into King Parrot Ck which ends up in the Goulburn, which ends up in the Murray.

So Melbourne has been 'stealing' water from north of the divide long before the N/S pipeline.

DL

[NavyDiver]

"CORCORAN, Calif. — It is no secret to locals that the heart of California’s Central Valley was once the largest body of fresh water west of the Mississippi River, dammed and drained into an empire of farms by the mid-20th century.
Still, even longtime residents have been staggered this year by the brute swiftness with which Tulare Lake has resurfaced: In less than three weeks, a parched expanse of 30 square miles has been transformed by furious storms into a vast and rising sea.
The lake’s rebirth has become a slow-motion disaster for farmers and residents in Kings County, home to 152,000 residents and a $2 billion agricultural industry that sends cotton, tomatoes, safflower, pistachios, milk and more around the planet. The wider and deeper Tulare Lake gets, the greater the risk that entire harvests will be lost, homes will be submerged and businesses will go under.


..Across the region, the surprise barrage of atmospheric rivers (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/us/atmospheric-river-explainer.html) that swept through California over the past three months already has saturated the ground, overflowed canals and burst through levees. The fear now is that record walls of snow in the southern Sierra Nevada will liquefy in the intensifying spring heat into a downhill torrent that will inundate the Central Valley.

"

A Farmer tying to patch a whole in a levy used his PICK UP Truck filled with dirt (https://twitter.com/agleader/status/1635690151304388608)!

Novel!!!! A front end loader might have be better? The rains was well below the Dams and Colorado River (https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/12/us/lake-mead-drought-shoreline-discoveries-climate-ctpr/index.html)

Got a bit windy in some parts of the Mid USA! sadly a lot of people died

[NavyDiver]

buried? Metres of snow! 72.5 feet is how many metres?

22.9m[bigwhistle]

Mammoth Mountain sees record snowfall after series of atmospheric rivers










Mammoth Mountain announced on Wednesday that it has received more snow this season than any other year on record.
This year’s measurement of 695 total inches of snow at the Main Lodge dwarfs the 260 inches received in the 2021-22 season, according to the resort (https://www.mammothmountain.com/on-the-mountain/snowfall-history). In fact, the Main Lodge hasn’t topped 500 inches in a season since the 617.5 inches received in 2016-17.

[NavyDiver]

May is looking good for a bit of inflows and beating the water out[thumbsupbig]
Lake Powell Water Database (https://lakepowell.water-data.com/)


two boat ramps open and power supply might be in trouble still? "Glen Canyon Dam" "Following guidance from the White House, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and state and local public health authorities, the dam is closed to the public. For more information about Glen Canyon Dam, please visit the US Bureau of Reclamation (https://www.usbr.gov/projects/index.php?id=144)."That link has "Glen Canyon Dam, 15 miles upstream from Lees Ferry, is the key feature of the CRSP. This 710-foot-high structure provides more storage capacity than all other storage features of the project combined. The concrete arch dam has a crest length of 1,560 feet and contains 4,901,000 cubic yards of concrete. Thickness of the dam at the crest is 25 feet, and the maximum base thickness is 300 feet."

It is huge! The above average seasonal snow melt and rain is helpful. Needs decades of that to get back to full of course. More likely taking less water out is going to be required!

[NavyDiver]

More than half the world's lakes drying up — study3 hours ago3 hours ago
Researchers of a new study say global warming and human consumption are causing the world's lakes to lose water.

"
What were some of the findings? According to the research, led by hydrologist Fangfang Yao of the University of Colorado, the world's large lakes and reservoirs had shrunk since the early 1990s.

"

Headline and a bit of WOW More than half the world'&#39;'s lakes drying up — study – DW – 05/19/2023 (https://www.dw.com/en/more-than-half-the-worlds-lakes-drying-up-study/a-65672277)


I suppose some might wonder if the other half are over flowing???

The WHY is interesting!

"
The team of experts said some of the world's critical freshwater sources had lost water at a cumulative rate of around 22 gigatonnes per year for nearly three decades.

"More than half of the decline is primarily attributable to human consumption or indirect human signals through climate warming," said Yao who pointed out that warming contributed "the larger share of that." (https://www.dw.com/en/water-cycle-climate-change-sponge-cities-drought-flooding-monsoon-hindu-kush-himalayas/a-63332091)
Researchers also found that changes in rainfall and run-off, sedimentation, and rising temperatures had caused global reductions in lake levels.

"

Long showers? My silly thoughts switch immediately to water required for Hydrogen via Electrolysis ( Not Hydrogen Pyrolysis happily for this black duck)

The 1.5% temperature increase limit goal is a basket case now so its not likely to get better?

PS NASA suggests "A single gigaton of water would fill about 400,000 Olympic-sized swimming pools; [B]each gigaton represents a billion tons of water."

A billion sound deep! 22 per year is?







[/URL]

(https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https://p.dw.com/p/4RYMH%3Fmaca%3Den-Facebook-sharing)[URL="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet'source=webclient&text=More%20than%20half%20the%20world's%20lakes%20 drying%20up%20%E2%80%94%20study+https://p.dw.com/p/4RYMH%3Fmaca%3Den-Twitter-sharing"] (https://twitter.com/intent/tweet'source=webclient&text=More%20than%20half%20the%20world's%20lakes%20 drying%20up%20%E2%80%94%20study+https://p.dw.com/p/4RYMH%3Fmaca%3Den-Twitter-sharing)Over half of the world's lakes have shrunk, according to a new study published on Thursday.

An international research team published their findings in the journal Science and found global warming and human activity to be the chief culprits.
Natural lakes and reservoirs contain around 87% of the Earth's freshwater —only about 3% of Earth's water is fresh. (https://www.dw.com/en/is-the-ocean-a-viable-solution-for-water-scarcity/a-65043802)

[NavyDiver]

Its a lot of money which even skeptics suggest is not nearly enough? News.com has "Experts have warned that a hard-fought agreement between California, Arizona and Nevada to cut the use of the Colorado River won't solve the long-term water crisis."

If this is how its done not a lot of reason to suspect it will be fixed any time soon. "three states that make up the lower portion of the sprawling Colorado basin will pare back 13% of water consumption from the beleaguered river over the next three years if adopted, averting the prospect of more stringent cuts imposed by the federal government. Backed by $1.2bn in federal funds, the bulk of the reductions are structured to encourage voluntary cuts taken by rights holders, in exchange for grant money."

23 years of drought. That is spooky! "The three longest drought episodes occurred between July 1928 and May 1942 (the 1930s Dust Bowl drought), July 1949 and September 1957 (the 1950s drought), and June 1998 and December 2014 (the early 21st-century drought)." History is interesting
Historical Drought | Drought.gov (https://www.drought.gov/what-is-drought/historical-drought)


Here our "1895–1903: Federation Drought, the worst since European settlement" apparently. "The Millennium Drought (2001–09) was one of the most severe. In 2017 drought set in again across parts of New South Wales and Queensland."

Going way back records or evidence suggest bigger badder and worse Drought has occurred here before captain cook swung by!

The reference I put to hydrogen is on the minds of South Australians. Plans to use our Mighty Murray river for a lot of water for Hydrogen Electrolysis did get some blow back. The Iron ore/Poo farm to hydrogen is on fire today with now news or reasons? See Jokes on loosing money (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/29343-jokes-post3193490.html#post3193490)Tax Deductions and investment advice[bigrolf]


Boxes of tissues used here today [tonguewink]

[NavyDiver]

If the science and Canadian PM on the month long already Bush fires impacting all the way down to NY State isn't enough, Record droughts in several places and so much more.


"Global climate records tumble at rapid rate as 2023 could become the warmest year on record

"

This year could be a watershed moment in Earth's climate history.
Major global climatological records are breaking at a rapid rate, a trend likely to continue during the coming years as the world's oceans and atmosphere rebound sharply following a triple La Niña.

This year has already produced record-high global ocean temperatures and record-low Antarctic sea ice. And in recent weeks, a sudden surge of record-high air temperatures could propel 2023 to become the warmest year on record.



Global climate records tumble at rapid rate as 2023 could become the warmest year on record - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-16/global-climate-records-breaking-rapid-rate/102484434)


Reading today that its a little task of reducing 1000 of billions (or trillion??) tonnes of man made C02 to Zero seemed tricky. A C02 negative WA business ( NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE) give me hope science will quickly over come several issues for all our benefit.

The bush fires in Canada "According to the Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre, there are 426 active fires in the country as on June 8, 2023.


Weather maps hang on the walls and precipitation reports flash across screens in the Winnipeg office where major decisions about Canada’s battle against an unprecedented wildfire season are made. Inside the Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre headquarters in Manitoba’s capital, just east of the exact longitudinal centre of Canada, there are discussions on how best to battle blazes from coast to coast.“It’s definitely an unprecedented season,” Jennifer Kamau, communications manager for the centre, said Tuesday.“It started early and it accelerated very quickly.”

"

Worst bit is "
They said the risks from warm and dry conditions are forecasted to persist in nearly every province and territory through the summer.
"


Given its early this will be tough year for the Canadians. Its not business as usual with "Of the more than 400 fires burning in Canada, more than one-third are in Quebec, which has little experience with so many and such large wildfires"
"
Three months left in Canada’s wildfire season, blazes have already scorched more than 10 times the acres of land burned by this time last year. The size and intensity of the fires are believed to be linked to drought and heat brought on by a changing climate.
Fires are burning in forests in all of Canada’s provinces and territories, except the province of Prince Edward Island and Nunavut, a northern territory that sits above the tree line, where temperatures are too low for trees to survive."
The news that last year 150,000 fire fighters in Canadian full time and volunteer firefighters is an issue we are hearing about here as well.

More fires and issues and less people volunteering for the often extended periods we need to bring big fires under control or to prepare to try and avoid them in the first place.

Several complex issues all at once. Note Lots of Aussie and other firefighters from around the are in or on their way to help in Canada.
Bravo Zulu Volunteers and regulars

[NavyDiver]

Records falling for HOT in many places. "US bakes under relentless heat dome, as heatwaves sweep the globe from Asia to Europe from ‘hot and dangerous weekend’



Tens of millions were battling dangerously high temperatures in the United States on Saturday as record heat forecasts hung over Europe and Japan
California’s Death Valley, one of the hottest places on Earth, is also likely to register new peaks on Sunday, with the mercury possibly rising to 130F (54C)




"

Japan, China and EU all having a blistering time. Oddly looking at wheat futures impact from the hot dry North american crop then found China crop is being impacted by heavy rains[bighmmm]


"State capital Phoenix recorded 16 straight days above 109F (43 degrees Celsius), with temperatures hitting 111F on Saturday en route to an expected 115F":firedevil: Death Valley, one of the hottest places on Earth, is also likely to register new peaks on Sunday, with the mercury possibly rising to 130F (54C).Temperatures had already reached 48C by midday on Saturday and even overnight lows could exceed 38C.
:firedevil::firedevil::firedevil:

Loved running on my holiday at above 30 c. Its 12 degrees out side here making this seem rather odd [thumbsupbig]

Add bushfires from Canada to Spain and its going to be tough for many places!

[350RRC]

................


Loved running on my holiday at above 30 c. Its 12 degrees out side here making this seem rather odd [thumbsupbig] .................

[/FONT][/COLOR]

Even though it seems cold in Vic one consistent thing I've noticed (using Elders weather, bottom of the page) is how the minimum for the month from the nearest weather station is consistently higher than the long term average.

ATM it's 2.5 degrees above average for July.

Even when the maximum temp is down the minimum is never down by as much and can even be up.

I wonder why that would be? [bigwhistle][bighmmm][happycry]

DL

[NavyDiver]

this is cool (HOT)

Tweet from MET office about world heat. Watch the China bit. BBQ!!!! Provisionally highest ever recorded in China 52.2.

The Met Office said, the mercury hit 52.2 degrees in the village of Sanbao yesterday.

Sanbao is in the Turpan basin, a below-sea-level depression with a desert that has recorded some of the most extreme temperature variations in China, from temperatures well below zero in winter to baking summers. link (https://newsonair.gov.in/News'title=China-provisionally-records-highest-ever-temperature-in-the-north--western-region-of-Xinjiang&id=464407)

Twitter may not work? It showed me the post then stopped me the next time [bigrolf]

https://twitter.com/metoffice/status/1680925410723262466

[NavyDiver]

Name for storms can be a bit funny[bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

"As of Friday afternoon, the hurricane had lost a little steam and its centre was located roughly 325 miles south-west of Mexico's southern edge.Parts of Mexico are under a tropical storm watch, and its government has placed 18,000 soldiers on standby to assist in rescue and relief efforts.


Hilary is expected to weaken to a tropical storm by late Sunday before it reaches southern California, the NWS said.



Heavy rainfall until next Wednesday could bring catastrophic flooding to parts of the south-western US."

If the heavy rain gets up to Lake Mead it will be a good event. Trend is your friend[biggrin]
Lake Mead Water Level (https://mead.uslakes.info/Level/)

Panama canal lake Gatun could use a few drops as well.

"[B]Drought Now Throttling Traffic at Panama Canal, A Threat to 40% of All U.S. Container Shipments

"

It is a LONG way of course. Trivia its about 8000 nautical mile extra to go around the Panama Canal via South America the long way. Assuming 20knts its 400 hours of more!!! (16.6 days) roughly[thumbsupbig]

[4bee]

Down here it was to protect the creeks and runoffs from drying out.
They also wanted to put meters on everyone’s tanks too.
They almost got lynched over that one, and were promptly run out of town.


As I recall, to rub salt into the wound we were expected to pay for the Meters + installation.

As you say it never happened

[NavyDiver]

"Lake Mead has risen by SEVEN FEET since start of 2024 and is now on cusp of not being in drought...but experts say America's largest reservoir will drop by 19 feet later
"

question on expert opinions of course[thumbsupbig]

[4bee]

"Lake Mead has risen by SEVEN FEET since start of 2024 and is now on cusp of not being in drought...but experts say America's largest reservoir will drop by 19 feet later
"

question on expert opinions of course[thumbsupbig]

#1 expert. There is a very large diameter hose between these two, it runs under the Pacific Ocean......One is t pushing H2O in the other end is filling.

Just like the PLUTO Fuel Pipeline to France during WW2 but one day flow will reverse & there will be floods in Oz/USA.



Simples James, you just have to ask.:wallbash::Rolling:

[NavyDiver]

Hottest 10 years ever? Here apparenlty

"Busiest cyclone season in 19 years possible with weather system forming off west coast

"

New one inbound up north here Busiest cyclone season in 19 years possible with weather system forming off west coast - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-20/busiest-cyclone-season-19-years-forming-west-coast-weather/105072672)

Apparently the ARMY and a EV car guru went to break open some dams on the river prompting this thread.

"The two DOGE agents even flew to California with the goal of turning the pumps on themselves, in what people familiar with the incident characterized as a stunt for a “photo op.”

Days after that unsuccessful DOGE trip, the White House ordered the US Army Corps to release water from the Terminus Dam at Lake Kaweah and Schafer Dam at Lake Success. Ultimately, 2.2 billion gallons flowed out of the two dams into a dry California lakebed before panicked local water managers and Republican and Democratic California lawmakers beseeched the Army Corps to shut it down."

Some other parts of that article might be political.

I like warm over cold yet this seems a bit hot?

World Meteorological Organization: Last 10 Years Have Been the Hottest on Record

A WMO report also found that 2024 was the warmest year in a 175-year observational period.

By Eloise Goldsmith (https://truthout.org/authors/eloise-goldsmith/) , CommonDreams (https://www.commondreams.org/news/wmo-warming-record-10-years)PublishedMarch 19, 2025

[Saitch]

Hottest 10 years ever? Here apparenlty

"Busiest cyclone season in 19 years possible with weather system forming off west coast

"

New one inbound up north here Busiest cyclone season in 19 years possible with weather system forming off west coast - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-20/busiest-cyclone-season-19-years-forming-west-coast-weather/105072672)

Apparently the ARMY and a EV car guru went to break open some dams on the river prompting this thread.

"The two DOGE agents even flew to California with the goal of turning the pumps on themselves, in what people familiar with the incident characterized as a stunt for a “photo op.”

Days after that unsuccessful DOGE trip, the White House ordered the US Army Corps to release water from the Terminus Dam at Lake Kaweah and Schafer Dam at Lake Success. Ultimately, 2.2 billion gallons flowed out of the two dams into a dry California lakebed before panicked local water managers and Republican and Democratic California lawmakers beseeched the Army Corps to shut it down."

Some other parts of that article might be political.

I like warm over cold yet this seems a bit hot?

World Meteorological Organization: Last 10 Years Have Been the Hottest on Record

A WMO report also found that 2024 was the warmest year in a 175-year observational period.

By Eloise Goldsmith (https://truthout.org/authors/eloise-goldsmith/) , CommonDreams (https://www.commondreams.org/news/wmo-warming-record-10-years)PublishedMarch 19, 2025




Pardon my cynicism, ND, but any organisation beginning with "World", rings alarm bells with me.

[NavyDiver]

Pardon my cynicism, ND, but any organisation beginning with "World", rings alarm bells with me.

I did add the "Apparently" Saitch [biggrin]

[NavyDiver]

"Oceans expand as they warm, contributing significantly to sea level rise (34–40% in recent decades)
1
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise)"

Sydney morning herald headline "Confirmed: 2024 was the hottest year on record in the air and the oceans
(https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/confirmed-2024-was-the-hottest-year-on-record-in-the-air-and-the-oceans-20250319-p5lkni.html)Although warming around the world rose last year, "

Seems a bit close to home in this pic

https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/a0cbcdcaa70257c80f9d602c6e9c4c8d?width=1024 From ‘Insanity’: Land ‘worthless’ due to new planning law | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site (https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/aussie-towns-100km-apart-face-planning-rules-making-land-worthless/news-story/e8f3cd07b14941672e71bc5a512a47f5)

"NASA's latest report highlights an alarming acceleration in sea level rise. In 2024, the rate of rise was nearly a quarter of an inch per year, surpassing expectations. This increase was driven by unusual ocean warming and significant meltwater from glaciers"

One inch is 25.4mm I think so that may be about 6mm in 2024? I wonder if NASA is avg or specifically at one place?

EDIT- Found it :)
Global sea level rose faster than expected in 2024, mostly because of ocean water expanding as it warms, or thermal expansion. According to a NASA-led analysis, last year’s rate of rise was 0.23 inches (0.59 centimeters) per year, compared to the expected rate of 0.17 inches (0.43 centimeters) per year.
“The rise we saw in 2024 was higher than we expected,” said Josh Willis, a sea level researcher at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Southern California. “Every year is a little bit different, but what’s clear is that the ocean continues to rise, and the rate of rise is getting faster and faster.”

NASA Analysis Shows Unexpected Amount of Sea Level Rise in 2024 – NASA Sea Level Change Portal (https://sealevel.nasa.gov/news/282/nasa-analysis-shows-unexpected-amount-of-sea-level-rise-in-2024/)

[Saitch]

"Oceans expand as they warm, contributing significantly to sea level rise (34–40% in recent decades)
1
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise)"

Sydney morning herald headline "Confirmed: 2024 was the hottest year on record in the air and the oceans
(https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/confirmed-2024-was-the-hottest-year-on-record-in-the-air-and-the-oceans-20250319-p5lkni.html)Although warming around the world rose last year, "

Seems a bit close to home in this pic

https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/a0cbcdcaa70257c80f9d602c6e9c4c8d?width=1024 From ‘Insanity’: Land ‘worthless’ due to new planning law | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site (https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/aussie-towns-100km-apart-face-planning-rules-making-land-worthless/news-story/e8f3cd07b14941672e71bc5a512a47f5)

"NASA's latest report highlights an alarming acceleration in sea level rise. In 2024, the rate of rise was nearly a quarter of an inch per year, surpassing expectations. This increase was driven by unusual ocean warming and significant meltwater from glaciers"

One inch is 25.4mm I think so that may be about 6mm in 2024? I wonder if NASA is avg or specifically at one place?

EDIT- Found it :)
Global sea level rose faster than expected in 2024, mostly because of ocean water expanding as it warms, or thermal expansion. According to a NASA-led analysis, last year’s rate of rise was 0.23 inches (0.59 centimeters) per year, compared to the expected rate of 0.17 inches (0.43 centimeters) per year.
“The rise we saw in 2024 was higher than we expected,” said Josh Willis, a sea level researcher at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Southern California. “Every year is a little bit different, but what’s clear is that the ocean continues to rise, and the rate of rise is getting faster and faster.”

NASA Analysis Shows Unexpected Amount of Sea Level Rise in 2024 – NASA Sea Level Change Portal (https://sealevel.nasa.gov/news/282/nasa-analysis-shows-unexpected-amount-of-sea-level-rise-in-2024/)

Having the wherewithal to measure a 6mm increase over such a large, irregular surface is mind boggling! I wonder what else they're satellites are really capable of? I'm sure the average, Joe Blow will never know!