Suspension questions

[Bohica]

I am looking at changing the suspension. The current suspension is I do not know how old. It sags at the front, compared to the rear. I have a winch bar and a winch.
I am looking at a Dobinsons kit. However, linear or variable? I do have roof rack and it does get loaded up a fair bit, what with fuel jerry cans, water, tents, etc.
The rear variable has a 200kg constant load. But what does that mean?
I think the heavy duty for the front, 45mm lift, and 50mm lift on the rear.

Suggestions?

[Slunnie]

I am looking at changing the suspension. The current suspension is I do not know how old. It sags at the front, compared to the rear. I have a winch bar and a winch.
I am looking at a Dobinsons kit. However, linear or variable? I do have roof rack and it does get loaded up a fair bit, what with fuel jerry cans, water, tents, etc.
The rear variable has a 200kg constant load. But what does that mean?
I think the heavy duty for the front, 45mm lift, and 50mm lift on the rear.

Suggestions?

It doesn't tell you anything specific about the springs but it gives you an idea of what the springs are designed for.

Front HD Linear will be correct for you. You need HD due to the winch bar, when you get under about 220lb/in the springs stuggle to retain their ride height over the longer term. You would need to ask Dobinsons what they have spec'd at, but in the early days many companys were specing a lighter but long spring to retain a soft long travel ride but it wasnt a good setup as they wouldn't sustain ride height and at the other end of travel the front prop was interfering with the removeable Xmember. You can work around the Xmember, but not the soft springs. Nutshell - look for 220-230lb front spring rates, not lower.

On the rear, it tells you that it is a stiff spring, but how stiff is stiff because it doesn't tell you the spring rate, i just tells you the spring is designed so for a Disco2 that always has an additional 200kg in the boot. The variable springs can be setup in a a lot of different ways depending on what they're trying to achieve and you would have to ask Dobinsons also how the variable rate has been setup. Some are variable because they use an increased spring rate to increase the ride height and in some cases the lifted HD spring is shorter than standard, or they're running a longer shock and they need the stiff short spring to be longer, so at the installed length the variable rate is inactive and compressed - it may only be 1 or 2 coils, but in this setup it is purely to get a stiff short spring to have an increased spring rate in a spring that is longer. The other variable rate setup is running a softer spring rate at its installed length and then it undertakes a spring rate change after a certain amount of compression. So for example with my blue Disco, I designed the springs so that they have a rate of 300lb/in and then after 25mm of compression from unloaded the spring rate increases to 340lb/in. Nutshell, no probs with variable rate springs, they allow the spring to do more than a linear, but you need to ask Dobinsons how theirs are setup.

Feedback on the Dobinson springs has always been pretty positive. The brand often seem to give a bit more lift than expected as well.

By the way, I think you will find the ride isn't affected too much by increased spring rates, you will mainly feel it via the bumpstops when you hit them, so the lift and an increase in rate doesn't always mean it rides stiffer. Where you will feel it most is from the shocks, so pick your shocks really carefully.

[AK83]

.... Where you will feel it most is from the shocks, so pick your shocks really carefully.

definitely this!! [thumbsupbig]

I bought a cheap D2 to part out some years back.
it has standard looking springs .. very thin coil, and look old.
But it has brand spanking new shocks of an unbranded nature.. bright yellow heathen things that simply do not compress.
The ride driving the D2 home was gocart like .. luckily it was only about 10k and 9.9 k of freeway too. On the undulating sections of the freeway, it bashed so hard into the ground .. damned I forgot to bring my kidney belt.
How any owner would put up with such a dreadful ride ... ????

So, like Slunnie said, choose shocks carefully .. I reckon these "yellow peril tubes" were cheapo for the person that got them .. and maybe why they were selling the car!(nah, it had other issues). Once the part car is stripped, it'll go to the recyclers more importantly the yellow perils will too!

My D1 rides pretty hard too(nothing like the part car tho) and it has some brand of shocks that I never heard of before. "RideKing" or Roadking some garbage(can't remember really) .. and are garbage too. Can't wait to rid myself of them too.

[Bohica]

Feedback on the Dobinson springs has always been pretty positive. The brand often seem to give a bit more lift than expected as well.

Thanks for an excellent response, lots to think about.
As a novice in this area, the positive feedback helps.
I've sent an email re the spring rates. The kit includes shocks.

At present the distance between the hub and the top of the wheel arch is about 500mm on the rear and about 450mm on the front.
would this go to 550mm front and rear with the 2" lift?

[Slunnie]

Thanks for an excellent response, lots to think about.
As a novice in this area, the positive feedback helps.
I've sent an email re the spring rates. The kit includes shocks.

At present the distance between the hub and the top of the wheel arch is about 500mm on the rear and about 450mm on the front.
would this go to 550mm front and rear with the 2" lift?

It'll be interesting to hear what they reply with and how it comes up when installed.

Its a bit of a guess as to what you will get. There are a few reasons for this.

The 2" lift is a nominal number and they end up being anything typically from 25mm to a bit over 50mm. The other reason is because of what your base measurement is, as there are 4 different specs you can use - delivered ride height, specified ride height, lowest tolerance and highest tolerance. That said, with 1 exception, all of the Disco2's we measured as delivered were at the lowest tolerance which is a hub to guard of front 485mm and rear coil of 470mm (yes, they're all tail down), so it is pretty safe to say that most spring makers have designed from standard springs.

So as you say, your rears are really good and more than what I would have expected - but probably correct if you're meant to have 200kg constantly in the back.
Your fronts have collapsed.

New springs will settle over their first 12 months, but I don't think you will get more lift out of new rears, in fact they may lower it a bit, but you should see a big gain at the front. It's hard to tell with Dobinsons though, because some of their springs come in a lot higher than what they say.

[finallyrangie]

I have dobinson springs on mine, bullbar up front and steel rear bar with drawers and fridge in the back, have to say with bilstein plus 2 shocks these ride very well, freely admit to knowing nothing about suspension, just my experience.

[Kaaaiju]

I have 3inch dobinson springs 200kg at the back and 100kg at the front with the Bilstein 7100 and being out in the big Victorian desert on the sand and the whoops and the corrugated roads the shocks are beautiful, soak up everything and the springs are amazing too

[Four Loko]

I am looking at changing the suspension. The current suspension is I do not know how old. It sags at the front, compared to the rear. I have a winch bar and a winch.
I am looking at a Dobinsons kit. However, linear or variable? I do have roof rack and it does get loaded up a fair bit, what with fuel jerry cans, water, tents, etc.
The rear variable has a 200kg constant load. But what does that mean?
I think the heavy duty for the front, 45mm lift, and 50mm lift on the rear.

Suggestions?

I got the dobinsons H/Duty +2" kit, don't bother with the kit, the shocks in the rear are way too short. They are basically at the full extension from the get-go, with no room for any flex. The springs seem fine. I have them in and swapped the shocks out for the TF +3's adjustable until revision 3.


Comfort is great even un-loaded, fully loaded, draws, roof tent, fridge, water etc sill great. I don't notice any excessive rebound in the rear either seems to soak it all up well.


https://i.ibb.co/NtM2r1Q/Screen-Shot-2021-09-27-at-9-42-28-am.png (https://ibb.co/9c7Hhwz)
https://i.ibb.co/w0ycZcK/tg-image-1348740524.jpg (https://ibb.co/PmxDsD5)

[Slunnie]

Do you guys know what hub to guard or bumpstop clearance measurements the 2" and 3" kit gave?

[V8Ian]

What are the front and rear standard height, wheel centre to guard measurements supposed to be, for a EAS equipped D2a?

[gavinwibrow]

What are the front and rear standard height, wheel centre to guard measurements supposed to be, for a EAS equipped D2a?

From the D2 manual (2003)

Front
Nominal height from hub centre to wheel arch (not liner)*
500 ± 15 mm (19.7 ± 0.6 in)

Rear
Nominal height from hub centre to wheel arch (not liner):*
⇒ Coil spring 483 ± 15 mm (19.0 ± 0.6 in)
⇒ Air spring 473 ± 15 mm (18.6 ± 0.6 in)

* Measurement taken with vehicle at unladen weight.

[V8Ian]

Cheers Gavin.

[scarry]

The springs sagged badly on the last D2 i had,and the OEM shocks were shagged.

MR auto suggested Kings springs and Bilstein shocks.

Had them fitted and it was like a different car,came up slightly higher than before and handled and rode beautifully.

[Slunnie]

The springs sagged badly on the last D2 i had,and the OEM shocks were shagged.

MR auto suggested Kings springs and Bilstein shocks.

Had them fitted and it was like a different car,came up slightly higher than before and handled and rode beautifully.

King are great, a comparitively soft spring. I think they gave me F40mm and R30mm lift - I added 20mm shims over the rear.

[V8Ian]

From the D2 manual (2003)

Front
Nominal height from hub centre to wheel arch (not liner)*
500 ± 15 mm (19.7 ± 0.6 in)

Rear
Nominal height from hub centre to wheel arch (not liner):*
⇒ Coil spring 483 ± 15 mm (19.0 ± 0.6 in)
⇒ Air spring 473 ± 15 mm (18.6 ± 0.6 in)

* Measurement taken with vehicle at unladen weight.


The springs sagged badly on the last D2 i had,and the OEM shocks were shagged.

MR auto suggested Kings springs and Bilstein shocks.

Had them fitted and it was like a different car,came up slightly higher than before and handled and rode beautifully.
My front springs have sagged 35ish mm., noticeable in the headlight alignment.
How accurate are the Kings, Paul? I need them to suit the airbag height.

[scarry]

My front springs have sagged 35ish mm., noticeable in the headlight alignment.
How accurate are the Kings, Paul? I need them to suit the airbag height.

My D2a was a 5 seater,coils all around,so different to yours.

But it did come up well,as the front was way down.

Sorry i dont know the numbers of the coils,as it was ages ago.

If know one here knows,i could call MR and ask them.

One thing i do know is springs are sometimes difficult to get right,my brother had heaps of issues before he got his D1 coils sorted.
So advice from someone that knows is critical.

Slunnie may know more?

FWIW,on another note,i just fitted a set of BP-51 shocks to the vehicle we have now,it handles and rides rediculously well,so much better than it did.
Unfortunately seems they are not available for D2,but for those with Defenders,they are available,but not cheap.

[Four Loko]

I never took any measurements, have not adjusted any bumps stops yet either, don't think I need to?

Here is a pic of the dob rears vs TF's.

https://i.ibb.co/r5dhdBm/photo-2021-09-27-22-06-07.jpg (https://ibb.co/BTnJnht)

[Slunnie]

Thats a big difference. You will need to check your brake and ABS lines, they may very well not be long enough. Also you watts linkage, the lower link for clearance one the axle mount for the pivot housing - you will see what I mean when you're under it.

[Tombie]

King are great, a comparitively soft spring. I think they gave me F40mm and R30mm lift - I added 20mm shims over the rear.

Shouldnt be in the heavier front option. Originally they were 180lb fronts, when I worked with them we moved to the 225lb front and 300-340lb progressive rears using the new alloy.

[Slunnie]

Shouldnt be in the heavier front option. Originally they were 180lb fronts, when I worked with them we moved to the 225lb front and 300-340lb progressive rears using the new alloy.
They were the ARB/OME’s weren’t they? The King spec were softer then OME. Lovells measured them and they came up at something like F190 and rears were about 250-270 or something like that.

[Tombie]

They were the ARB/OME’s weren’t they? The King spec were softer then OME. Lovells measured them and they came up at something like F190 and rears were about 250-270 or something like that.

Initially yes. I went to Kilsyth and met with them and we did the D2 and Defender coils (and Defender LTRs).

Kings then shifted their spec across on the HD last I spoke with them.

[Slunnie]

Initially yes. I went to Kilsyth and met with them and we did the D2 and Defender coils (and Defender LTRs).

Kings then shifted their spec across on the HD last I spoke with them.

Ahh cool. I didn't know King changes their specs. That was a good move.

[Bohica]

Is it possible to have 2 inch spacers on the factory air springs? Manually controlled? If a no go then the Dobinsons for the rear.
The rear has original Land Rover shocks
Looking at the Dobinsons HD for the front, currently has Pedders Red shocks.

Any recommendations for the shocks?

[Slunnie]

I thought you could get SLS spacers that go onto the lower perch. You will also need rods to adjust the ride height sensors.

I would look at Bilstein shocks, but you may need to chat to Les Richmond Automotive or someone like that to get the right spec ones for SLS with spacers that allow for the spacer but don't pull on the bags or various brake lines.

[Bohica]

Non SLS car. No rods to worry about.

[Slunnie]

Oh, were you thinking SLS with Shrader valves or something? I'm pretty sure you can run that setup and there are manual controllers for these systems. I'm sure companies like Airbagman etc do them. I looked into this also for mine, but never did it. I figured it would always need chasing as the load and fuel levels kept changing. I dont' think it was all that cheap. In the end (actually the beginning) I just installed poly airbags and they just have shims under them for any suspension lift.


Is it possible to have 2 inch spacers on the factory air springs? Manually controlled?

[Bohica]

I just installed poly airbags and they just have shims under them for any suspension lift.
Poly airbags as in air helper springs? It has them, but both burst a while back.

[Bohica]

I got this from them.

C51-052 38.50
C51-027v Variable rate.

I'm guessing they mean N/mm

[au.shammus]

I have been watching this from the sidelines as i am in the process of buying the bits to do a 2" lift on my D2a with airbags. i have bought the airbag spacer kit and SLS Sensor extenders from Andrew at LRA, some new springs for the front, spacers for cross member, some longer sway bar ends, was getting ready to buy some shocks until i saw mention of the +2" shocks in the rear not being long enough(now i am really confused). Does this affect the Air bag rear end the same way? i can fix a computer real good and wield a soldering iron pretty well, but get really confused trying understand suspension ;).
going by the conversation; would i be better served putting +2" shocks in the front and +3" on the rear?

cheers
Owen

[Scouter]

The springs sagged badly on the last D2 i had,and the OEM shocks were shagged.

MR auto suggested Kings springs and Bilstein shocks.

Had them fitted and it was like a different car,came up slightly higher than before and handled and rode beautifully.

Thanks, that's good to know- I'm booked in with MR to have the shocks and tie rod ends done in a couple weeks. Supposedly the front shocks being "empty" is a bad thing[bigwhistle]

[Slunnie]

I have been watching this from the sidelines as i am in the process of buying the bits to do a 2" lift on my D2a with airbags. i have bought the airbag spacer kit and SLS Sensor extenders from Andrew at LRA, some new springs for the front, spacers for cross member, some longer sway bar ends, was getting ready to buy some shocks until i saw mention of the +2" shocks in the rear not being long enough(now i am really confused). Does this affect the Air bag rear end the same way? i can fix a computer real good and wield a soldering iron pretty well, but get really confused trying understand suspension ;).
going by the conversation; would i be better served putting +2" shocks in the front and +3" on the rear?

cheers
Owen

It depends on what your free lengths end up being. You will probably find those shock lengths are too long for the front and rear. I really suspect they will pull on the brake lines at both ends and the rear ABS lines, but you can unclip and pull the front ABS lines through a bit. You may also have to review you bumpstops also, but I suspect the watts linkage will be ok. The problem with the SLS is that you can not run shocks that will allow the airbag to be pulled on at all otherwise it will tear the bag off the top mount and then it is shot - which is why I probably wouldn't run more than a 2" longer shock with a 2" SLS spacer.

[au.shammus]

Thanks Slunnie, I forgot to mention that I had already done extended brake lines, so 2” shocks it is, and to check the ABS wiring as well
Much appreciated
Owen