Weird; How can this be?

[GregMilner]

Okay, at m local indy this afternoon, after having them replace the front disc pads with ceramic jobbies, they tell me the front LCAs are flogged out. lots of play etc.
I'm not doubting them, I'm just curious. They replaced the front LCAs in May last year with brand new ones - the whole thing, not just the bushes - with OEM parts from Rovacraft in Perth. s
Now, after less than 25,000km, those same LCAs are buggered. No off-road work, just normal highway kms, perfect alignment etc etc. Is this normal? The original ones lasted 75,000kmh, including a fair slab of gnarly work. These ones? Not so much.

I'm not doubting the Indy's assessment at all. It's the second complaint they've had about Discos in the past couple of weeks. What's it about?
They are calling Rovacraft in the morning to to find out if there's any warranty on these things...

But I'm damned if I can accept less than 30,000kms of easy "nanny driving" from these parts...

Anyone else have this experience?

[letherm]

Okay, at m local indy this afternoon, after having them replace the front disc pads with ceramic jobbies, they tell me the front LCAs are flogged out. lots of play etc.
I'm not doubting them, I'm just curious. They replaced the front LCAs in May last year with brand new ones - the whole thing, not just the bushes - with OEM parts from Rovacraft in Perth. s
Now, after less than 25,000km, those same LCAs are buggered. No off-road work, just normal highway kms, perfect alignment etc etc. Is this normal? The original ones lasted 75,000kmh, including a fair slab of gnarly work. These ones? Not so much.

I'm not doubting the Indy's assessment at all. It's the second complaint they've had about Discos in the past couple of weeks. What's it about?
They are calling Rovacraft in the morning to to find out if there's any warranty on these things...

But I'm damned if I can accept less than 30,000kms of easy "nanny driving" from these parts...

Anyone else have this experience?

My experience is that the LCA's had to be replaced after 4 years and 37,000 kms from new. The dealer got it through under the extended warranty after an initial rejection by the warranty people. I have only driven mainly suburban short drives in the 5 to 10 km range with an occasional highway round trip of about 180kms . Virtually no off road driving (Don't ask [bawl])

I was surprised too. Maybe it's something to do with roundabouts and speed slowing rubbish we get in the city. Doesn't explain your highway mileage but nonetheless similar kms.

Martin

[101RRS]

I would say that is crap - my car is on its original LCAs and now done 200,000km - mix of onroad and offroad work - yes they need replacing now but still OK on the highway - just rattle when driving over gutters - but speed bumps are fine - the type of kms you guys have done indicates someone is pulling the ........

[josh.huber]

I average 80,000 from a set, I push in genuine bushes. I did use new arms once to save time I didn't have.. Was a waste. They only lasted 40,000k. The arms I got were supposed to be OEM..

When I rebushed the while car, I used a mix of genuine or lemforder or Delphi bushes. Mainly genuine.

[scarry]

The lowers on mine were completely shagged at 80 000 Km,which is pretty normal.

The uppers were starting to go as well,but still just OK.

Something is not right if they are going at the lower mileages,although the OEM ones seem to be the better quality.

[DieselLSE]

Everyone is referring to OEM. This can mean virtually anything these days. Are you all referring to Genuine Landrover or aftermarket? My guess is that the failures are aftermarket and the longevity is from Genuine. Aggressive driving, lots of raising and lowering the car when stationary, aggressive off road driving (i.e. too fast) and to a lesser extent towing will accelerate the wear on all suspension components. Remember, the lower rear bushes are sacrificial components.
When off road, I drive the D4 at the same speed I'd drive a series leaf sprung Landrover.

[Geedublya]

Its possible when the LCAs were replaced that they were torqued up when the car wasn't at the correct height and this has led to premature failure.

[DieselLSE]

Its possible when the LCAs were replaced that they were torqued up when the car wasn't at the correct height and this has led to premature failure.
Good point. But you'd have to go out of your way to stuff this job up. It's clearly documented in the manual. It's not rocket surgery! And any amateur with the skills and tools should have no problem working their way through it. The trick is finding a wheel alignment place that knows how to do the alignment properly.

[letherm]

I would say that is crap - my car is on its original LCAs and now done 200,000km - mix of onroad and offroad work - yes they need replacing now but still OK on the highway - just rattle when driving over gutters - but speed bumps are fine - the type of kms you guys have done indicates someone is pulling the ........


I take your point but this was the dealer I bought it from new. Their advice was to change them. Didn't cost me anything as it was done under warranty. As I said, I was surprised when they said they needed replacing. Looking at the service receipt it says that they were checked following my mentioning a problem. Can't remember what it was but obviously some problem. Original equipment can fail. That's what warranties as for. Just bad luck if you ask me.

Martin

[Redtail]

Mine had been done by the previous owner just before I bought it at around 88,000km. They needed doing again at 125k.

I now know there are heavy duty versions around, and that's all my indy will fit.
Perhaps you have the standard versions, not an HD set?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Bought my D4 with 88,000km on the odo. At 125000km the front LCAs were done, replaced with genuine LR units, albeit apparently a revised design? Now at 216000km and they need doing again. This time I've bought Meyle HD items and will DIY. The consensus appears to be that around 100,000km is expected wear life of the lower hydra-bush.

IMHO they should not fail at 25-35,000 km, clearly something wrong at install.

[letherm]

IMHO they should not fail at 25-35,000 km, clearly something wrong at install.

Except that mine were on a new vehicle not a replacement set. I presume the factory knew how to assemble them. [bigsmile1]

Martin

[Eric SDV6SE]

Except that mine were on a new vehicle not a replacement set. I presume the factory knew how to assemble them. [bigsmile1]

Martin

Perhaps thou doth presume too much....

But seriously, that is a fair point, original equipment can fail as you say, they are all mass produced componentry.

[GregMilner]

On Friday I was phoned by my local Indy shop to tell me Rovaspares are going to replace the shagged LCAs with a new set under warranty.
That’s good to hear. But still doesn’t answer the question of why they were flogged out after only about 25,000km with only Highway kms, no off road.
I don’t doubt they are buggered, on my drive to Perth from Dunsborough on Friday there was noticeable steering wheel vibration under brakes at highway speed, and it’s not the pads or rotors, the car had new ceramic pads installed only on Thursday. That’s when the mechanic discovered the LCAs were done for.

[Eric SDV6SE]

On Friday I was phoned by my local Indy shop to tell me Rovaspares are going to replace the shagged LCAs with a new set under warranty.
That’s good to hear. But still doesn’t answer the question of why they were flogged out after only about 25,000km with only Highway kms, no off road.
I don’t doubt they are buggered, on my drive to Perth from Dunsborough on Friday there was noticeable steering wheel vibration under brakes at highway speed, and it’s not the pads or rotors, the car had new ceramic pads installed only on Thursday. That’s when the mechanic discovered the LCAs were done for.

I think yours can be explained by poor alignment. After doing mine today, I think the actual fit up is not too hard, but I think the trick is in the correct alignment and setting the bolts to the correct torque. There is about 20-25 mm lateral movement in the slotted holes where they mount, plus then the eccentric washers, this combined creates a multitude of angles possible for (mis)alignment. I will be taking mine to a LR alignment specialist that my indie uses, and make sure they align to spec AND set the bolt torque correct.

[Pippin]

I think yours can be explained by poor alignment. After doing mine today, I think the actual fit up is not too hard, but I think the trick is in the correct alignment and setting the bolts to the correct torque. There is about 20-25 mm lateral movement in the slotted holes where they mount, plus then the eccentric washers, this combined creates a multitude of angles possible for (mis)alignment. I will be taking mine to a LR alignment specialist that my indie uses, and make sure they align to spec AND set the bolt torque correct. Or were the LCA bolts not tightened fully with the the suspension jacked to give the dimension of 466mm from the centre of the half shaft to the edge of the fender trim. If this is not done the bushes will not last long. Nick

[veebs]

Bit of talk about alignment - had mine adjusted the other week, and the bloke tells me the LCAs are rooted (25k old). Was also perplexed by the ‘suspension not in customer mode’ warning on the dash (I had put it into TTM on arrival)

LCAs later confirmed by indie as being ‘as new’ :-)

Leads me to my question - is there an alignment place in Perth anyone can recommended?
Someone who believes me, when I say ‘there are no coil springs, mate’

[Eric SDV6SE]

I go to integrity tyres in Wangara. They do all the alignment work for Dovers Rovers.

They do all series LR and all Discovery variants. They have the proper alignment equipment.

Link: Home (https://integritytyres.com.au/)

[GregMilner]

I think yours can be explained by poor alignment. After doing mine today, I think the actual fit up is not too hard, but I think the trick is in the correct alignment and setting the bolts to the correct torque. There is about 20-25 mm lateral movement in the slotted holes where they mount, plus then the eccentric washers, this combined creates a multitude of angles possible for (mis)alignment. I will be taking mine to a LR alignment specialist that my indie uses, and make sure they align to spec AND set the bolt torque correct.


Mmm...poor alignment. But I doubt it. I had the alignment done, properly in TTM, last time the LCA's were replaced in May 2020, and the car has tracked perfectly ever since. Well, until recently anyway, when the LCAs started to deteriorate.

[GregMilner]

Or were the LCA bolts not tightened fully with the the suspension jacked to give the dimension of 466mm from the centre of the half shaft to the edge of the fender trim. If this is not done the bushes will not last long. Nick

Nick do you know what the recommended torque figure is for those bolts? And when you say 'jacked', I presume you mean the suspension has to be jacked till that dimension is precisely 466mm?

I would have thought Dave the Indy would know all this, since they've been Land Rover specialists for years.

[Pippin]

Nick do you know what the recommended torque figure is for those bolts? And when you say 'jacked', I presume you mean the suspension has to be jacked till that dimension is precisely 466mm?

I would have thought Dave the Indy would know all this, since they've been Land Rover specialists for years. Yes that is correct. 275 Nm (203 lb.ft)

[gavinwibrow]

Bit of talk about alignment - had mine adjusted the other week, and the bloke tells me the LCAs are rooted (25k old). Was also perplexed by the ‘suspension not in customer mode’ warning on the dash (I had put it into TTM on arrival)

LCAs later confirmed by indie as being ‘as new’ :-)

Leads me to my question - is there an alignment place in Perth anyone can recommended?
Someone who believes me, when I say ‘there are no coil springs, mate’



TyrePower in Scarborough Beach Rd Osborne Park, near Frobisher Rd - have regularly done mine on recommendation from several LR owners on here.

[DazzaTD5]

There is no rhyme or reason for some lower control arms to flog out and some dont.

The lowest I've changed out are 70K.
The highest 300K.
I seem to note that city based vehicles wear them out faster.

Anything but genuine lower control arms are complete ****.
The bolts that come with the no branded ones are also rubbish.
OEM? did they have a brand on them? a label? or were they in a britpart box?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Yes that is correct. 275 Nm (203 lb.ft)
300Nm for the strut and ball joint bolts, 275Nm for the front and rear arm bolts. Tighten when the assembly is jacked so that the center of the hub to the inside to edge of the guard is 466mm.

[Falcon500]

There is no rhyme or reason for some lower control arms to flog out and some dont.

The lowest I've changed out are 70K.
The highest 300K.
I seem to note that city based vehicles wear them out faster.

Anything but genuine lower control arms are complete ****.
The bolts that come with the no branded ones are also rubbish.
OEM? did they have a brand on them? a label? or were they in a britpart box?


Hi Daz,

Just a follow up question on this - would you consider the Meyle and Lemforder lower control arms no good also? They are not genuine but touted as being "quality" or "Original" so just interested in your opinion on this.

Cheers!

[Pippin]

Hi Daz,

Just a follow up question on this - would you consider the Meyle and Lemforder lower control arms no good also? They are not genuine but touted as being "quality" or "Original" so just interested in your opinion on this.

Cheers!I'll just jump in with my comment. Advanced Factors in the UK for HD Lower Control Arm kits KIT680HD Meyle HD Front Lower Arms & OEM Bolt Kits Discovery 3 4 Year Warranty (https://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/kit680hd-meyle-hd-front-lower-arms--oem-bolt-kits-discovery-3----4-year-warranty-1366313-p.asp) They are great. Nick

[Falcon500]

I'll just jump in with my comment. Advanced Factors in the UK for HD Lower Control Arm kits KIT680HD Meyle HD Front Lower Arms & OEM Bolt Kits Discovery 3 4 Year Warranty (https://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/kit680hd-meyle-hd-front-lower-arms--oem-bolt-kits-discovery-3----4-year-warranty-1366313-p.asp) They are great. Nick

Thanks for the feedback Pippin, good to hear peoples experiences 👍

[Pippin]

Thanks for the feedback Pippin, good to hear peoples experiences 👍 Kit680 for Discovery 4 as well.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I'll just jump in with my comment. Advanced Factors in the UK for HD Lower Control Arm kits KIT680HD Meyle HD Front Lower Arms & OEM Bolt Kits Discovery 3 4 Year Warranty (https://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/kit680hd-meyle-hd-front-lower-arms--oem-bolt-kits-discovery-3----4-year-warranty-1366313-p.asp) They are great. Nick

That's exactly what I've just fitted, well made by the looks of them. I also chucked in a pair of hd sway bar links, these have a larger ball joint than oem.

[GregMilner]

So I had the LCA's replaced under warranty today -although I had to shell out to the indy for labour - and took a quick pic of the ones that were flogged out, then had another wheel alignment done at Tyrepower in Busselton, making sure it was in TTM before they took it onto the hoist.
Let's just see how long these last - hoping for more than 25,000kms this time.

174199
174200

[DazzaTD5]

Hi Daz,

Just a follow up question on this - would you consider the Meyle and Lemforder lower control arms no good also? They are not genuine but touted as being "quality" or "Original" so just interested in your opinion on this.

Cheers!

Yes both Meyle and Lamforder make good quality parts, although I've not tried them as buying genuine ones locally from the dealer is cheaper (go figure in these times with freight costs)

[Falcon500]

Yes both Meyle and Lamforder make good quality parts, although I've not tried them as buying genuine ones locally from the dealer is cheaper (go figure in these times with freight costs)

Great, thanks for getting back to me mate, much appreciated. Good to know there's decent options out there 👍

[jwb]

Anything but genuine lower control arms are complete ****.
The bolts that come with the no branded ones are also rubbish.
OEM? did they have a brand on them? a label? or were they in a britpart box?

I had originals done at 65k, soon after I bought the car; they were knocking badly.
Indy used ‘OEM’ which I took to be LR parts (wrong!). Just replaced them myself after another 50k with genuine LR arms and the parts I took out are unbranded so probably Britpart.

[DazzaTD5]

I had originals done at 65k, soon after I bought the car; they were knocking badly.
Indy used ‘OEM’ which I took to be LR parts (wrong!). Just replaced them myself after another 50k with genuine LR arms and the parts I took out are unbranded so probably Britpart.

OEM is such a bull**** term nowdays.
I find with Land Rover parts you know when you have got a actual OEM part over a genuine is that the OEM part has had the Land Rover logo and part number removed.

Example of this:
Genuine (Defender TDCi) turbos has a Land Rover logo on the inlet casting. OEM has the Land Rover logo linished off.
Genuine D4 airbag strut has a Land Rover logo on the rubber top cap and a sticker with a Land Rover logo and part number. OEM has had the sticker removed but the logo is still on the rubber top.
Genuine D4 viscous fan has a Hella, Behr and Land Rover logo on the plastic fan casing. OEM has the Hella, Behr logo and the Land Rover logo has been dremelled off.
Genuine TCCM has a sticker with a Bosch, Land Rover logo and part number. OEM has the Land Rover logo and part number removed.