Best approach to converting S1 80" to Dual brake Circuit

[jedwards]

Gentlemen,
I hoping to get some advice from the group on the best approach to converting to dual brake circuits on my 1953 S1 80".
I am still working on completing the brake lines, so thought it would be a good idea to consider converting to Dual brake circuit, now rather than later. ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that all that is required is to get hold of a suitable dual circuit Master cylinder and then run one circuit to the front and one to the rear brakes. If it actually that straight forward?

What is the best Master Cylinder to go hunting for. I've heard that Defender Master Cylinders will work. Are there any complexities with mounting these?

Many thanks in advance.
regards
Jeff

[cjc_td5]

It would not be a small job and would technically require engineering, as nothing would bolt straight in. The MC is under the floor vs on the bulkhead in Series 2 and later landies.

It would be possible, but would require a bit of thought and parts searching.

[cjc_td5]

A Defender MC will have the bore sized to be boosted and run disc brakes, both of which you don't have. It will also have the reservior mounted on top of it, which will not fit in your under floor location.

You may have to see if a Series 3 MC can be made to fit, including fitting a feed pipe to replace the reservior. Would would need to fit the PDWA valve also.

[JDNSW]

I have difficulty seeing a good case for this conversion. There are two points.

1. The value of an early Landrover is largely dependent on originality - dual circuit braking is not, and would require extensive modifications.

2. The improvement in safety is minimal, and largely illusory provided the vehicle is maintained in line with the owner's handbook including daily inspections.

To put it in perspective, I have been driving vehicles with single circuit brakes for over sixty years and have yet to encounter a case of brake failure that would be avoided by dual circuits, either myself or any other vehicle I have known of.

Against this we have a vehicle with effectively zero safety equipment as we know it today, and specifically with unboosted drum brakes that will fade if heavily used, and stop working completely after deep wading, and need adjusting every service.

Don't get me wrong, there are some safety improvements I would definitely fit to an 80" - these would include seat belts, turn indicators and a second windscreen wiper and left hand mirror, and would seriously consider radial tyres and windscreen washer. But I would not even consider dual circuit braking.

[jedwards]

Hi John,
As always, your advice makes great sense. Thanks.
My S1 80" will do very little work and be pampered once finished. I am already incorporating every one of safety features you mentioned, and as you suggested, I will save the money and time of a complex brake update by doing regular and careful inspections. Everything in the brakes department is being renewed, including all lines, couplings, cylinders (wheel & Master) and new shoes and adjustors all round.

regards
Jeff in Perth

[1950landy]

When my brother was racing his Mk7 Jaguar in historic racing we converted it to a dual brake M/Cyl. The Mk7 has an identical M/Cyl to an 80" LR . I think from memory we used a M/Cyl off a Daihatsu truck . This was done for safety reasons for racing but as stated there is no need to do it on a S1 , in fact I find the Std brakes on my 80" are better than I remember my fathers new S3 LR had.

[JDNSW]

If the S3 was a swb, they are almost exactly the same brakes - and the S3 goes faster and is a lot heavier!

[1950landy]

If the S3 was a swb, they are almost exactly the same brakes - and the S3 goes faster and is a lot heavier!

All yes to that.

[5380]

Hi John,
As always, your advice makes great sense. Thanks.
My S1 80" will do very little work and be pampered once finished. I am already incorporating every one of safety features you mentioned, and as you suggested, I will save the money and time of a complex brake update by doing regular and careful inspections. Everything in the brakes department is being renewed, including all lines, couplings, cylinders (wheel & Master) and new shoes and adjustors all round.

regards
Jeff in Perth


Jeff,

John has hit the nail on the head. The best, simple safety upgrade would be to use silicone brake fluid from day one. It will keep your rubber parts in perfect condition, reduce corrosion and won't need to be changed every few years. It also seems to reduce internal friction and pedal effort. Maybe I'm imagining it, but the pedal feel seemed to improve after changing over to silicone fluid.

Mike 5380

[LR1953]

Jeff,

John has hit the nail on the head. The best, simple safety upgrade would be to use silicone brake fluid from day one. It will keep your rubber parts in perfect condition, reduce corrosion and won't need to be changed every few years. It also seems to reduce internal friction and pedal effort. Maybe I'm imagining it, but the pedal feel seemed to improve after changing over to silicone fluid.

Mike 5380

Jeff, I'm a fan of silicon brake fluid too. I used it from the get-go after overhauling the brakes on my '53 80" in about 1988 and I haven't had a problem since apart from replacing linings and adjusting as needed. Perfect for a vehicle which is used intermittently. good for caravans etc with hydraulic braking systems too.

Cheers, Rob S

[JDNSW]

Actually, sinc the main attraction of silicone fluid is that it is not hygroscopic, the best protection would be to move inland!