Difference between tunes?

[Matt_Rides]

Hi all,

I recently bought my old mans 2002 D2 TD5 off him and back in 2006 he had a Davis Performance tune done. It was an exchange ECU even though it has the NNN ECU. Its now 2021 and I feel the car is a bit of a pig. I haven't driven a non tuned TD5 so I have nothing to compare it to. I have just ordered an EGR delete and Terrafirma Cat delete pipe to get it breathing a bit easier. Nanocom should be arriving in the mail tomorrow so i'll see what it's boosting to and go from there. I've seen TD5Zilla get mentioned a new times and started speaking to Ben with a view of getting him to do a tune that might wake the car up a bit more.

My question is - should I really bother with another tune or is the Davis tune from back then as good as they kind of get?

I like the idea that TD5Zilla can customise something for me to help towing etc but would still like some input from you guys to see if its worth it.

Thanks in advance!

[SPROVER]

Have a chat with 'Shack' who is a member on here. He's great to deal with and will customise the tune to suit you.

[shack]

I don't know of the tuner you mentioned.

I do however tune them myself and I know that the more modern methods of tuning-- Avoiding duration map hacks for instance, is far superior on many fronts, it is however probably a longer job to get right.

So I'd say if he/she is tuning with more modern techniques, it will be an order of magnitude better than the one you mentioned you are running.

The early ones were often really laggy, then straight to full power, not very nice to drive at all.

I'm not trying to audition for work...

Just make sure who ever you get is using more modern techniques and you should be happy!

Cheers
James

[simonmelb]

I have a Davis tune also ( just mild I think) and mine is really good. Engine in strong and reliable at 330k km. Exhaust is standard.

Most significant impact on performance is when boost is low, such as incorrect waste gate rod adjustment or a faulty wastegate modulator, so check these first.

[onebob]

I have a Davis tune also ( just mild I think) and mine is really good. Engine in strong and reliable at 330k km. Exhaust is standard.

Most significant impact on performance is when boost is low, such as incorrect waste gate rod adjustment or a faulty wastegate modulator, so check these first.

X2 [emoji1419]

[Kaaaiju]

I have td5inside map and alive and td5zilla and td5zilla is the best, with the knowledge and performance and price is fantastic

[onebob]

I have td5inside map and alive and td5zilla and td5zilla is the best, with the knowledge and performance and price is fantastic

Re Td5Zilla I just went to his web page for info - and it has no content to speak of [emoji53]

[Kaaaiju]

You message him or email him
Re Td5Zilla I just went to his web page for info - and it has no content to speak of [emoji53]

[onebob]

You message him or email him

I’ll do that [emoji1417]

[AK83]

Have a chat with 'Shack' who is a member on here. He's great to deal with and will customise the tune to suit you.

I've also had very recent dealings with Shack .. and having a TRS tune in mine(done by previous owner) ... Shacks has transformed mine into an awesome engine now.
Mine's auto too.

The more I drive it(been about a week and a bit now) the more it reveals itself.
This arvo coming home 'a different way' I was in 3rd (locked) coming up a slight incline.
Before Shacks mods to the TRS tune, I know it would have lagged then kicked down into 2nd from an unlocked 3rd.(been there done that).
But his tune now pulls immediately effortlessly from down into the 1400rpm range, stays locked(thanks to the V8 Trans ECU) and just pulls like a freight train .. no fuss! [thumbsupbig]

Had to catch up with brother early in the week, and he drove it and .... :BigThumb: .... massive smile on his face.

[johnp38]

I've also had very recent dealings with Shack .. and having a TRS tune in mine(done by previous owner) ... Shacks has transformed mine into an awesome engine now.
Mine's auto too.

The more I drive it(been about a week and a bit now) the more it reveals itself.
This arvo coming home 'a different way' I was in 3rd (locked) coming up a slight incline.
Before Shacks mods to the TRS tune, I know it would have lagged then kicked down into 2nd from an unlocked 3rd.(been there done that).
But his tune now pulls immediately effortlessly from down into the 1400rpm range, stays locked(thanks to the V8 Trans ECU) and just pulls like a freight train .. no fuss! [thumbsupbig]

Had to catch up with brother early in the week, and he drove it and .... :BigThumb: .... massive smile on his face.

So was it a complete new tune or just the TRS one modded to work better with the V8 trans controller?

[gavinwibrow]

I've also had very recent dealings with Shack .. and having a TRS tune in mine(done by previous owner) ... Shacks has transformed mine into an awesome engine now.
Mine's auto too.

The more I drive it(been about a week and a bit now) the more it reveals itself.
This arvo coming home 'a different way' I was in 3rd (locked) coming up a slight incline.
Before Shacks mods to the TRS tune, I know it would have lagged then kicked down into 2nd from an unlocked 3rd.(been there done that).
But his tune now pulls immediately effortlessly from down into the 1400rpm range, stays locked(thanks to the V8 Trans ECU) and just pulls like a freight train .. no fuss! [thumbsupbig]

Had to catch up with brother early in the week, and he drove it and .... :BigThumb: .... massive smile on his face.



Highjack, but on topic

So, when bought, my car had an early 1999 TD5 ECM with a Bruce Davis power upgrade - it's an early TD5/injectors so doesn't use the later "standard" reprogrammable ECU. I believe though, Bruce fits a reprogrammable chip to these earlier ones, so they can now be redone/changed easier/cheaper. .

What I'd love to have is access to 4th lockup in the ZF 4HP24 without having to hit 80 ie no more than 69 would be nice, as I seem to travel on a lot of 70 kmph roads.

How difficult/expensive is this likely to be if possible?

[johnp38]

Highjack, but on topic

So, when bought, my car had an early 1999 TD5 ECM with a Bruce Davis power upgrade - it's an early TD5/injectors so doesn't use the later "standard" reprogrammable ECU. I believe though, Bruce fits a reprogrammable chip to these earlier ones, so they can now be redone/changed easier/cheaper. .

What I'd love to have is access to 4th lockup in the ZF 4HP24 without having to hit 80 ie no more than 69 would be nice, as I seem to travel on a lot of 70 kmph roads.

How difficult/expensive is this likely to be if possible?

About 100 dollars if you score the right part number Transmission control module from a D2 V8, easy fit.

I have tried 2 but kickdown too sensitive but have a third on the way.

[shack]

Highjack, but on topic

So, when bought, my car had an early 1999 TD5 ECM with a Bruce Davis power upgrade - it's an early TD5/injectors so doesn't use the later "standard" reprogrammable ECU. I believe though, Bruce fits a reprogrammable chip to these earlier ones, so they can now be redone/changed easier/cheaper. .

What I'd love to have is access to 4th lockup in the ZF 4HP24 without having to hit 80 ie no more than 69 would be nice, as I seem to travel on a lot of 70 kmph roads.

How difficult/expensive is this likely to be if possible?I should clarify...

The "mod" to run the V8 Auto controller would require a remap if you want to avoid the "kickdown when not required" scenario.

AK83 had a remap already, but to avoid the kickdown issue more changes were needed that were probably not known about when his was originally done.

Simply fitting the V8 unit will not provide satisfactory performance if:

1. You are running stock tuning.

2. You are running on older style remap.

The issue for guys that are running MSB****** ECU's is that they are not easily remapped even if they have been fitted with socketed chips, as a heap more gear is required to do it.

I do not really feel inclined to learn, although the MSB unit is not without benefits.

AK83's tune was "simply" modified, it's not running any more fuel than before, although I doubt he believes that.

Cheers
James

[shack]

Just for interest sake, I popped in a "chipped" MSB I had laying around.

Ran some logging data, tried to do some mathematics, and came to the conclusion that the ECU I was checking is putting out VERY ROUGHLY about 380nm torque at 2krpm, and 111kw at 3800 rpm.

These are only calculated estimates at the flywheel.

It doesn't really go very well!

Cheers
James

[AK83]

....

AK83's tune was "simply" modified, it's not running any more fuel than before, although I doubt he believes that.

Cheers
James

Good that James clarified the inner workings of the retuned file I then uploaded.

It is hard to comprehend that it's not running 'any more fuel' than before tho, but it's easy to believe.

previous two full tanks netted me 7.99 and 8.02km/lt(whatever that converts to in lt/100km).

I had used half a tank before I uploaded Shacks retune/mod, and already explained the vastly improved driveability and better use of the already torquey feel of the motor.
But on half a tank already used .. so with half a tank remaining, the last fill(ie. half with with Shacks mod) I got 8.47km/lt.

This current tank(only down to 140km used) I suspect will show even less fuel use I'm kind'a guessing into the high 8's km/lt .. or about 11ish lt/100 ...
So, to reply to James comment that I would doubt there is more fuel being fed .. nope! fully believe it .. just hard to comprehend it.
My driving mix is 50/50 freeway (to work and back) and pickup the missus to city and back via dense urban rubbish.

The highway component has room for improvement by removing the hideous(and heavy) roof rack too.

Car has been neglected somewhat by brother .. even tho I tried hard to coach him into keeping on top of this and that.

At the moment, a part of the 'this and that' neglectfulness is a broken manifold stud, extremely likeleyhood of a warped manifold(not yet debwebbed), and a small list of other things I need to look into(once lockdown starts to ease up a bit).

I have a strong suspicion that engine mounts have caved too. engine feels a bit more rough than I initially remember it(although could just be exhaust) ..

my experience is that a modded TD5 map with v8 trans ecu PLUS a well retuned map for it .. will work as Gavin wants and better!

[gavinwibrow]

About 100 dollars if you score the right part number Transmission control module from a D2 V8, easy fit.

I have tried 2 but kickdown too sensitive but have a third on the way.

Thanks, I have every confidence you will update us when you succeed, and if you find a second one, please let me know.

[gavinwibrow]

Good that James clarified the inner workings of the retuned file I then uploaded.

It is hard to comprehend that it's not running 'any more fuel' than before tho, but it's easy to believe.

previous two full tanks netted me 7.99 and 8.02km/lt(whatever that converts to in lt/100km).

I had used half a tank before I uploaded Shacks retune/mod, and already explained the vastly improved driveability and better use of the already torquey feel of the motor.
But on half a tank already used .. so with half a tank remaining, the last fill(ie. half with with Shacks mod) I got 8.47km/lt.

This current tank(only down to 140km used) I suspect will show even less fuel use I'm kind'a guessing into the high 8's km/lt .. or about 11ish lt/100 ...
So, to reply to James comment that I would doubt there is more fuel being fed .. nope! fully believe it .. just hard to comprehend it.
My driving mix is 50/50 freeway (to work and back) and pickup the missus to city and back via dense urban rubbish.

The highway component has room for improvement by removing the hideous(and heavy) roof rack too.

Car has been neglected somewhat by brother .. even tho I tried hard to coach him into keeping on top of this and that.

At the moment, a part of the 'this and that' neglectfulness is a broken manifold stud, extremely likeleyhood of a warped manifold(not yet debwebbed), and a small list of other things I need to look into(once lockdown starts to ease up a bit).

I have a strong suspicion that engine mounts have caved too. engine feels a bit more rough than I initially remember it(although could just be exhaust) ..

my experience is that a modded TD5 map with v8 trans ecu PLUS a well retuned map for it .. will work as Gavin wants and better!



Just to clarify, my version runs about 420 N/m as the PO convinced Bruce Davis the upgraded 4HP24 replacement transmission fitted could handle more than the standard 400 Nm max applied to automatic 4HP22s. Apparently the engine max torque/power is ultimately controlled by the gearbox ECU!

[shack]

Just to clarify, my version runs about 420 N/m as the PO convinced Bruce Davis the upgraded 4HP24 replacement transmission fitted could handle more than the standard 400 Nm max applied to automatic 4HP22s. Apparently the engine max torque/power is ultimately controlled by the gearbox ECU!
I have hours of really detailed logging.

The only time the Auto controls the engine output is basically on gear changes to prevent flaring and reduce shock through the Auto and drivetrain.

Running the V8 Auto ECU won't really change much in that department.

Cheers
James

[Newlandy]

I have hours of really detailed logging.

The only time the Auto controls the engine output is basically on gear changes to prevent flaring and reduce shock through the Auto and drivetrain.

Running the V8 Auto ECU won't really change much in that department.

Cheers
James

I have a 2002 TD5, have been through the tuning shlep from the "old" to "new" tuning methods, but have never heard of changing the TD5 auto box ecu to a V8 ecu. What does this mod do for the drivability of the car and what is required to get it working correctly?

What part numbers are required?

[AK83]

I have a 2002 TD5, have been through the tuning shlep from the "old" to "new" tuning methods, but have never heard of changing the TD5 auto box ecu to a V8 ecu. What does this mod do for the drivability of the car and what is required to get it working correctly?

What part numbers are required?

I think the part numbers 'may' be a bit hit and miss.
From what I've read, some folks get good results from one part number, but others don't using the same/similar part number.

There are two recent threads you can read up on.

One here ... HERE! (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/288041-transmission-ecu-swap-2.html) ... and the other is in the 'what happened too D2' thread from about page 755.
I also remember other threads on the topic from about a year or two ago too .. so it should be searchable(not sure how pinpoint specific the search will end up tho).

Mylesaway has some part numbers listed there, so does johnp38 as I listed the one I had spare too.

it's a great mod for a tuned TD5 that has gobs of low down torque and feels like it's revving like mad for no reason! And there's a possibility that your tune may need a tune again(talk to Shack).

Mine ended up 'good' around town, but not so good(not terrible tho) on the highway, and less usable than the TD5 auto ECU. Shack retuned my ECU(engine ECU) and now it's perfect.

[johnp38]

Thanks, I have every confidence you will update us when you succeed, and if you find a second one, please let me know.

Ok I will just keep going here as it will tie in to ECU tune

So today I got my UHC 000020 Trans controller (V8 LOW COMPRESSION)

Chucked it in and went for a speed around suburban streets and up hill down dale out on the highway.

Works much much better than the other 2 controllers which were V8 HIGH Compression and were touchy on downshifting and a bit erratic on their changing sometimes. (IGG 000010, IGG 000040)

While it is good enough for me and I have left it in as the mild throttle much sooner upshifts are nice to have, (along with lower speed lock up) I still found it a touch more sensitive than I want out on the highway, but happy to live with it for now.

Much better than the high comp units as I could put my foot down a lot further and use torque for longer to accelerate but even at 110 I could get it to kickdown far too quickly with a bit of spirited overtaking, and I would think towing would be affected (but not tried yet)

So from reading threads in various forums there are many options if you're starting out in order of least effort:

1. Stock tune, stock converter, change to IGG 000070 if you have earlier IGG 100010 to get 4th lock at 80 instead of 83 klicks an hour.

2. Performance tune with change to later TCU as above if earlier disco

3. Performance tune to suit changeover to V8 TCU, stock converter (SHACK tune ?)

4. Performance tune to suit V8 TCU and V8 torque converter (SHACK tune ?)

The preferred Trans Controller Units that have acceptable suburban driving shifting to get from earliest number upwards, all low comp donk, UHC100230, UHC100350, UHC000020, IGG000050

Thanks to all unnamed but very appreciated various forum contributors on the subject .

It would be good to have ECU performance tunes that incorporate the ability to use the V8 controllers as shack has done for arthur but without having to worry about low or high comp differences.

[shack]

Ok I will just keep going here as it will tie in to ECU tune

So today I got my UHC 000020 Trans controller (V8 LOW COMPRESSION)

Chucked it in and went for a speed around suburban streets and up hill down dale out on the highway.

Works much much better than the other 2 controllers which were V8 HIGH Compression and were touchy on downshifting and a bit erratic on their changing sometimes. (IGG 000010, IGG 000040)

While it is good enough for me and I have left it in as the mild throttle much sooner upshifts are nice to have, (along with lower speed lock up) I still found it a touch more sensitive than I want out on the highway, but happy to live with it for now.

Much better than the high comp units as I could put my foot down a lot further and use torque for longer to accelerate but even at 110 I could get it to kickdown far too quickly with a bit of spirited overtaking, and I would think towing would be affected (but not tried yet)

So from reading threads in various forums there are many options if you're starting out in order of least effort:

1. Stock tune, stock converter, change to IGG 000070 if you have earlier IGG 100010 to get 4th lock at 80 instead of 83 klicks an hour.

2. Performance tune with change to later TCU as above if earlier disco

3. Performance tune to suit changeover to V8 TCU, stock converter (SHACK tune ?)

4. Performance tune to suit V8 TCU and V8 torque converter (SHACK tune ?)

The preferred Trans Controller Units that have acceptable suburban driving shifting to get from earliest number upwards, all low comp donk, UHC100230, UHC100350, UHC000020, IGG000050

Thanks to all unnamed but very appreciated various forum contributors on the subject .

It would be good to have ECU performance tunes that incorporate the ability to use the V8 controllers as shack has done for arthur but without having to worry about low or high comp differences.And that can probably be done.

What I did is match up all the tuning and controller back at headquarters, then I mapped until I was happy with performance on my own car, then sent that out.

I've done both early and late ones, it is a bit niche, but really satisfying.

I've been messing with the V8 controller for some time, so have a bit of a handle.

I guess it really is a bit of a "bespoke" tuning thing as I ran the whole tune back here to make sure AK83 would hopefully be happy.

But it may well require the same thing again should different ECU versions arise.

I am not across all versions, but earlier on believed there was realistically only 2 V8 versions, one for the 4.0, and one for the 4.6 sold in America, but I haven't done any further research, someone will no doubt classify this.

As far as what I do? I just change the mapping until I'm happy, whatever the version!

Cheers
James

[mylesaway]

My research shows that there were 17 different TCU's in 6 different 'Family groups' used in the D2.

They are the following...

TD5 EU2

UHC100250 - IGG100010 - IGG000060




TD5 EU3

IGG000070



V8 ROW
Low Comp

UHC100230 - UHC100350 - UHC000020 - IGG000050



V8 EU & UK
High Comp

UHC100260 - IGG100020 - IGG000010 - IGG000040



V8 USA
High Comp

UHC100240 - UHC100360 - UHC000010 - UHC000080



V8 USA
4.6 EFI

UHC500010


Use only "V8 ROW Low Comp" for 'plug and play' in D2 TD5's.

[shack]

My research shows that there were 17 different TCU's in 6 different 'Family groups' used in the D2.

They are the following...

TD5 EU2

UHC100250 - IGG100010 - IGG000060




TD5 EU3

IGG000070



V8 ROW
Low Comp

UHC100230 - UHC100350 - UHC000020 - IGG000050



V8 EU & UK
High Comp

UHC100260 - IGG100020 - IGG000010 - IGG000040



V8 USA
High Comp

UHC100240 - UHC100360 - UHC000010 - UHC000080



V8 USA
4.6 EFI

UHC500010


Use only "V8 ROW Low Comp" for 'plug and play' in D2 TD5's.



























Thanks for your efforts there, I wonder how the unit you suggested would perform on a stock tune. Have you tried it?

[mylesaway]

Thanks for your efforts there, I wonder how the unit you suggested would perform on a stock tune. Have you tried it?

Yes, I have tried it..

MSB101193 TD5 Auto ECU with the V8 R.O.W TCU UHC100350.

It can be driven but performs similar to the 'V8 High Comp' units when in cruise control in that it drops back to 3rd quiet violently.
It can be nursed along out of CC if you are prepared to let your D2 drop back 3-5kmh on the same hill. I had trouble getting used to the lack
of power with the Std ECU.

Also tried..

MSB101340 TRS ECU with the same TCU UHC100350. It has '09/16' written on the cover- presume this is the rechipping date - although I bought in 2018 I think.
This was my second TRS ECU after the first one died after 7-8 years. This one has the same fueling tune Id's as Johnp38's has.

This ECU had no troubles with the hills in CC (100km/hr) although it did drop out of 4th lock-up on the first run. On the second run of the 10km circuit it had no problems.
I put this down to the trans not being up to operating temp and/or the ECU 'learning to talk' to the TCU.

Am running now..

A MASTAZ Full Power with Boost Controller delete. It's a rechipped MSB xxx xxx unit. It says 'boost delete' but that is not strictly true as it will still cut the engine
and the MIL light comes after 30 something PSI boost.

Well..This bad boy eats the hills and idles around town nicely. It seems to compliment the Hybrid Turbo nicely. Works well with HD Torque Converter and the D2a
intercooler and 3" exhaust.

Also have a ....

NNN500030 unit. Bought this originally with the idea of getting a TD5 Inside/ Alive type remap for it. Have been trying to download a EU2 base fuel map (NNW501250)
from the Nanocom site but it's just not happening on my computer. A lack of computer skills maybe part of the problem...
I'll try and persist though....

Note; I'm running standard tyres and only have roof bars (with a mine site bar). Everybody's vehicle will be a bit different..

cheers