Locked out! 2001 HSE.

[PeterH]

Well, it happened, after 11 years of ownership, the P38 has locked me out!
My remote only locks it, I use the physical key to open the door, which has never been a problem until now.
The key just turns the lock in the drivers door with no resistance, so I'm pretty sure the latch has failed in some way, probably one of the wire shafts or something has come loose, preventing the key from being able to unlock.
I had an RACV guy try to get in, but all the locks do nothing.
They called a locksmith who didn't want to know about it.

So the problem at hand is I need to gain access to the vehicle.
Once I'm in I can get it sorted.
I know I can pry the small window out, but if the locks will not unlock, I'm still locked out.
I'm pretty stuck here, any suggestions will be very welcome.
The remote is still working, the locks will only lock with the remote.
I don't want to trigger an EKA code lockout if it can be helped.
What can I do?
Thanks, Pete.

[PeterH]

Having a think about it, I have probably unwittingly superlocked the car, which may be why the locks are unresponsive.
I really need to get access, preferably without smashing glass or making things worse.
Is there a remote repair service in Australia that deals with P38s?
Thanks, Pete.

[Saulman1010]

Dang.
What a mess.
I'm sure the brains trust will jump on me but I don't think AU spec P38's had EKA code enabled.
Its irrelevant anyway as you say the key lock has failed.
The only thing I can think of is to break and enter and change the door lock.
But if you disconnect the battery the BECM will go into sulk mode and will need unlocking.
When you say the unlock button on the remote didn't work, could you try to pull it apart and see if you can trigger an unlock - jumping the connections for the switch. That assumes the remote is synchronised which it must be. But then again, you mustn't take the battery out - an unsychonised remote won't help your battle.

Hmmmm.....thinking.....

Mjshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211018/61619e1536ae8cd08a688ee2ce146c84.jpg

[PeterH]

Thank you so much for your thoughts Saulman1010, yes you can see the problems!
I had a thought to call LR and order a new key for mine, I know it's not cheap, but it just might get me in again using the remote function.
I don't want to make things worse, so I'm doing my homework before doing anything else.
Yes the remote is synced and works, except it only locks, not unlocks.
If I can get access and get the door open, I can deal with it from there.
Cheers, Pete.

[DieselLSE]

I'm sure the brains trust will jump on me but I don't think AU spec P38's had EKA code enabled.
Yes they did. Any dealer will be able to give it to you.
But I agree this may not fix the problem. It sounds like the door actuator is functioning but with not enough travel to unlock.

[PhilipA]

Does the light in the fob come on to unlock?
if not probably the microswitch has failed or has broken solder.
You can get microswitches at Jaycar and a phone fixer should be able to resolder or replace the microswitch.
Regards PhilipA
PS I am 72 , with poor close vision and clumsy but I can do it so it's not all that difficult.

[Saulman1010]

But if the vehicle is superlocked and you break in - becm will be disabled. "Sulk mode"
Also, how will you synchronise the new remote to the lock if you can't use they key? Can that be done in the ignition?
Strip the remote and jumper the push button is where I'm heading.


Mjs

[PeterH]

Thank you Phillip, yes the light in the fob does work when either button is pressed, but both buttons lock the car, not unlock.
I have read on another forum someone took their remote to a TV repair guy and he was able to get it working again, I didn't think of a phone repair place, thank you for the suggestion.
If I could get the remote to unlock the car, I might be out of trouble.
Thank you, Pete.

[PeterH]

You are probably on the right track Saulman1010, I have never pulled the remote apart other than to change the battery, so I don't really know what i'm looking at.
The fact that both buttons lock, it does sound like some sort of fault in the remote.
I wouldn't know what I was looking for though if I did get it apart.
Possibly a short somewhere, causing the lock signal to be sent from both buttons, rather than the unlock signal from the unlock button.

[Saulman1010]

The remotes clip together and are glued. You may have to get aggressive with a Stanley knife but the outer cases only are on ebay quite cheap.
Be ready to catch little spring.
Leave the circuit board in the battery side of the remote to keep it powered up.
Mjshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211018/de56f3c225d7a9c88c38fef63da80f87.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211018/09875382149f40140f39e3ea12c57728.jpg

[PhilipA]

That is not a D2 remote , compared to my 2002 D2 anyway.
The D2 remote clips together and should be able to be pried apart at or near the loop for the keyring.
Regards PhilipA

[PeterH]

After sleeping on it, I think trying to get the key working is the best way forward to start with, rather than tyring to break in.
I'll call a car key specilist to come and see if they can help.
If I can get the fob to send an unlock signal, then at least the vehicle will be unlocked, then the fob can be repaired and I can get into the door to repair the latch.
I usually get any problems sorted very quickly with my P38, it's usually back on the road in under 24 hours.
I'll let you know how it goes. wish me luck!
Thanks for all the replies everyone, it really is most appreciated, I wasn't sure where to start with this one.

[PeterH]

I'm not having any luck so far, have called a few key fob specialists and none of them are interested in helping.
I took the fob to one guy, who had never even seen a P38 fob before.
He pressed the buttons several times and now the remote seems to have lost synch with the vehicle.
Can anyone help me here, do you know of anyone in Melbourne who is familiar with P38 key fobs?
I'm really stuck, any help will be most apprecaited.
I've been searching forums, but I'm not getting anywhere as to how to gain access to a superlocked car with a broken latch and faulty remote.
Thanks, Pete.

[old dirt bikes]

Hi Peter,
It would be worth talking to Lee at Labtronics. He is a specialist in all things P38 electronics. But worst case you may have to break in and get access to the inside of the drivers side door, which may not be pretty. My BECM on my first P38 went to sleep and would not wake up. I had to send the BECM, key and drivers door lock to Lee. A couple of days and he had it sorted.
Regards,
Alan Temperley






I'm not having any luck so far, have called a few key fob specialists and none of them are interested in helping.
I took the fob to one guy, who had never even seen a P38 fob before.
He pressed the buttons several times and now the remote seems to have lost synch with the vehicle.
Can anyone help me here, do you know of anyone in Melbourne who is familiar with P38 key fobs?
I'm really stuck, any help will be most apprecaited.
I've been searching forums, but I'm not getting anywhere as to how to gain access to a superlocked car with a broken latch and faulty remote.
Thanks, Pete.

[PeterH]

Thank you so much for this info Alan, do you have the contact details for Labtronics?
I've been pretty stumped on how to proceed with this, it would be great to have a way forward.
It's hard to have my daily driver hopelessly locked and blocking my driveway.
Hope you are recovering well from all your recent goings on.
Thanks, pete.

[Keithy P38]

G’day mate, I thought I’d throw in my 0.02, even though you appear to be on the right track.

My 2002 does this from time to time, immobilising then whole show. I’ve narrowed it down to the dual battery system back-feeding (solar on the roof) into the main battery, making the system believe the car is being swiped and super locking (and subsequently immobilising the P38 at the same time).

My solution temporarily is to remotely switch the car fridge on, removing the voltage feed to the main battery and de-immobilising the entire show.

That said, I’m not sure if you have a dual battery system that could be doing this, but it’s food for thought.

Cheers
Keithy

[econti]

Firstly, have you changed the battery in the remote?
Are there any other keyholes on the vehicle, I assume not?
If not, then honestly the easiest way is to break a window. Find one from a wrecker and change it. I'm a locksmith by trade and trust me in this situation a locksmith will charge more than it'll cost to do a window. If you have windscreen cover on your insurance policy then just do that

[PeterH]

Thank you for your thoughts Keithy, I'm glad you found a way around that, it's not nice being locked out of your own vehicle!
I have a single battery, not a duel set up.

My first problem is how to gain access, unfortunately I think I'm going to have to smash the drivers window, which I really don't want to do.
I have read access can be gained through the tailgate by applying 12 volts to the wiring, but I think the wiring is inside the vehicle, probably not accessable from the outside.
Makes you realise how robust the security is on our P38s.
I have read something about 'friendly synchronisation' on the later P38s, (which mine is, being a 2001), something about being able to sync the key in the ignition somehow.

I also saw this posted on another forum by Glenhendry:
"A very knowledgeable LR technician proved to me beyond all reasonable doubt that syncing will work if the lock is turned in ANY direction any time within 30 seconds of EITHER fob button is pressed. It is not fussy about the procedure, all it needs is a remote fob click and a door lock turn. I saw this with an elaborate bench top test kit and my own BeCM broken down into all its pieces".

So with that info, it might be worth a shot to break in, get the door open from the inside (if thats possible), reconnect the latch part that has come adrift, and attempt to resynch the key, even though it only works to lock, following the above advice it should work, then I would be able to open the door with the physical key once again.
That's the theory anyway!
I will have to disconnect the horn if the alarm keeps sounding.

That's my thinking at the moment.
It's really my own fault, I should have had a spare key made and the original one repaired, then I wouldn't be in this situation.
The expensive price tag of a new key put me off, but now I wish I had done that!

[PeterH]

Thanks for your advice econti, the batteries in the remote were changed not all that long ago, and the red led still flashes when the buttons are pressed.
But it might be worth a shot.
Only drivers door has a key hole.
Sounds like a smash entry is the best option here, there is a Land Rover wreckers not too far from here, I might even get a replacement window first, so i know I have a replacement.
As I'll be in the drivers door anyway, it makes sense to do that one, proabably easier than the windscreen route, as I can easily change the window glass myself.

[PeterH]

I found this info about friendly re synching if anyone is interested.

On vehicles from 1997, friendly resynchronization was introduced on vehicles with passive immobilisation. A remote handset that is not synchronised to the BeCM will automatically be re-synchronised when the key is inserted in the ignition without using the vehicle key or Emergency Key Access (EKA) procedure. The re-synchronisation uses a pick-up coil in the remote handset and a passive coil located around the ignition barrel. The passive coil provides a signal for the remote handset to transmit an unlock signal to remobilise the vehicle.

[PhilipA]

Just a thought.
Do these have an inertia switch to cut off the fuel pump and unlock the doors in an accident.

I know it was a bit of a joke when I worked for BMW, that you could open a 735 by punching the bonnet near the windscreen!

If there is an inertia switch maybe give it a nudge with another car or if you can get under the bonnet give next to the inertia switch a whack with a hammer.

Regards PhilipA
I found this on Landyzone.


Addendum: Just read the Electrical Troubleshooting Manual for the 1997 P38....in the Security/Central Locking pages, in the system description it does say the intertia switch unlocks the doors....so I stand corrected....

But it is still on the A pillar none-the-less !!

So depends on the location I guess.

[PeterH]

Thank you PhilipA, would be a nice trick if it worked!
I don't know the location of the inertia switch, unless it's part the inertia reset switch in the drivers foot well.
I'll keep that in mind.

[DieselLSE]

Thank you PhilipA, would be a nice trick if it worked!
I don't know the location of the inertia switch, unless it's part the inertia reset switch in the drivers foot well.
I'll keep that in mind.
I thought the inertia switch was under the driver or passenger seat like in the classic, but I just googled it and they say it's in the right hand footwell under a plastic cover. But it appears to just shut off the fuel supply, not unlock the doors. Maybe the BECM does that?

[biggin]

Do the P38’s have a lock/ unlock switch on the dash like a discovery?
If so, I have heard of wedging open the top of the door and using a bit of fencing wire to operate the switch.

[PeterH]

Thanks biggin, unfortunately no switch like that on P38s.
Thank you for the idea though, would have been handy!

So far I've found a second hand replacement drivers window, I'll get that before smashing anything so I know I have one on hand.
I replaced the fob batteries just to be sure, but no difference, as I can't sync the fob anyway.
I rang Land Rover and they gave me the EKA code for my vehicle over the phone, which is great, at least I have that now.
I also priced a new key fob, which will take 4 to 6 weeks to arrive from the UK and will cost over $500.

What I'm hoping, is to gain entry by smashing the drivers window, somehow remove the door card with the door closed and see if I can open the door from the inside.
Then repair or replace the drivers latch, which hopefully will enable me to enter the EKA code via the key in the lock.
At least that's the theory!

Failing that, I'll have to send the bits off to be rectified electronically.

[old dirt bikes]

Hi Peter,
yes going good now thanks. I had been off work for 7 months on sick leave, so when I went back to work I only worked for 2 weeks and I decided it was a good time to retire, so I am using up long service leave and then I will be retired.
The contact details are--- Lee Bourgeois, Lab Electronics, 0248711218.
Regards,
Alan Temperley





Thanks biggin, unfortunately no switch like that on P38s.
Thank you for the idea though, would have been handy!

So far I've found a second hand replacement drivers window, I'll get that before smashing anything so I know I have one on hand.
I replaced the fob batteries just to be sure, but no difference, as I can't sync the fob anyway.
I rang Land Rover and they gave me the EKA code for my vehicle over the phone, which is great, at least I have that now.
I also priced a new key fob, which will take 4 to 6 weeks to arrive from the UK and will cost over $500.

What I'm hoping, is to gain entry by smashing the drivers window, somehow remove the door card with the door closed and see if I can open the door from the inside.
Then repair or replace the drivers latch, which hopefully will enable me to enter the EKA code via the key in the lock.
At least that's the theory!

Failing that, I'll have to send the bits off to be rectified electronically.

[Grahame Roberts]

Having a think about it, I have probably unwittingly superlocked the car, which may be why the locks are unresponsive.
I really need to get access, preferably without smashing glass or making things worse.
Is there a remote repair service in Australia that deals with P38s?
Thanks, Pete.

I had super lock on my Disco 2.
YouTube vids saved me.
I had to pull down the door card and drill an entry to the lock and use a hook to open the latch. Search on the tube.

[TheTree]

another key option if feasible for you

P38 Range Rover rplacement Key | Range Rover P38 Key | (https://remotekey.co.uk/range-rover/range-rover-p38-replacement-key/)

[PeterH]

For those follwing this with interest, I bet you are glad it's me and not you!
I'm determined to get this sorted, one way or another.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed, it has all been very helpful.
I'm one to do my homework before I start anything, so I'm being careful to not make the situation worse.

Big thanks to Alan, who put me on to LAB Electronics, I gave them a call and Lee was so great to talk to.
It's a very different coversation when you are speaking to someone who knows what they are doing, compared to someone who hasn't even seen a P38 key fob before.
Such a nice guy and full of knowledge, I have sent my key off to him to be repaired and also make a second key.
At least I will be starting with two properly working keys, I'll have a better chance of getting this sorted.

Thanks also to Grahame for the suggestion, I have been watching You Tube vids and one showed a P38 latch wire that had come loose, preventing the EKA code from being entered, which is probably the situation I have.

I still don't know how I'm going to get into the vehicle yet, smashing a window will be the last resort, I'm not keen on doing that if I can help it.
Anyway I'll keep you posted with any developments.
Thanks, Pete.

[Saulman1010]

We await your next post with bated breath..[emoji40]
I think we P38a owners love a good mystery.
Mjs

[Wojer]

For those follwing this with interest, I bet you are glad it's me and not you!
I'm determined to get this sorted, one way or another.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed, it has all been very helpful.
I'm one to do my homework before I start anything, so I'm being careful to not make the situation worse.

Big thanks to Alan, who put me on to LAB Electronics, I gave them a call and Lee was so great to talk to.
It's a very different coversation when you are speaking to someone who knows what they are doing, compared to someone who hasn't even seen a P38 key fob before.
Such a nice guy and full of knowledge, I have sent my key off to him to be repaired and also make a second key.
At least I will be starting with two properly working keys, I'll have a better chance of getting this sorted.

Thanks also to Grahame for the suggestion, I have been watching You Tube vids and one showed a P38 latch wire that had come loose, preventing the EKA code from being entered, which is probably the situation I have.

I still don't know how I'm going to get into the vehicle yet, smashing a window will be the last resort, I'm not keen on doing that if I can help it.
Anyway I'll keep you posted with any developments.
Thanks, Pete.


I am uncertain of the features of earlier models, but my Disco 4 has a separate button for the rear tailgate which is useful to clamber through.
Saves smashing windows...just a thought.

[PeterH]

Thank you for the suggestion Woger, I have been searching the internet and reading as much as I can like a mad man trying to work out the best way to gain entry once I have working keys again.
I did read on another forum about someone who cut the tail gate button open, extracted the inside part to get to the wiring.
From what I can gather, the tail gate switch has a constant 12v feed, he was able to use a wire and earth the switch to the tow bar, causing the tail gate to unlock and setting off the alarm.
It is unclear if the tail gate switch would still have 12v when the vehicle is in a superlocked state.
I'd rather destroy the switch than smash a window, but I'm not sure if it will work.
Thanks, Pete.

[Scouse]

Just reading this now...the little 1/4 window in the rear doors can be fairly easily removed from outside. Or get one of those inflatable bags/pillows to spread the door frame out a little. If it is actually superlocked though, you might be in bigger trouble.

[Scouse]

Such a nice guy and full of knowledge, I have sent my key off to him to be repaired and also make a second key.
Was Lee able to make a 2nd remote/key assy or just a key blade?

[PeterH]

Thanks Scouse, the vehilce is currently superlocked, so even if I did remove the small window, the inner door handles are disabled, preventing access.
It has been an interesting learning curve, but I am getting somewhere.
I managed to pry the bottom of the drivers window open enough using a rubber door wedge, and got a borescope in there to see what is going on.
As you can see in the photo, the key barrel arm has broken, the rod that operates the lock mechanism is hanging off to the left.
Apparently that's a thing that can happen!
Lee was able to repair my existing remote, and also program a new one, also supply a replacement new handle ready to go with my key.
I'm still waiting for those to turn up, huge delays with Australia Post parcels in Melbourne at the moment.

So the theory is, I'll get the borescope in the door cavity again, use a pick up tool, (or something made with wire), to grab the end of the broken rod and move that up or down to simulate a key turn. Then I'll push the button on the repaired remote to hopefully re sync the remote.
That should give me access without breaking anything!
Then I'll be able to replace the door handle and solve the issue.
I'll report back on how it all goes, but at the moment, I'm waiting for a delayed express post delivery.
Pete.

[Saulman1010]

Good step forward! When you have won the battle, it would be awsome if you could document the symptoms-solutions and we can all benefit from your pain[emoji6]

I need to pull the door cards on Rosie to solve a squeaky panel problem rather than locks so I will have a good sniff around the latch and handle linkages as well[emoji846]

Mjs
Mornington

[PeterH]

Sorted!
I'm very pleased to say I managed to get in without breaking or smashing anything, even though I was told by mechanics that is the only way.
I got my repaired key fob back from Lee, along with another working key, plus a new drivers door handle set up to work with my key.
You can see in the first pic, the arm that pulls/pushes the rod to unlock had broken, rendering the physical key unable to unlock.
You can clearly see the broken arm, it may have been like that for a while before it fell out of the barrel.
That, along with a faulty remote, meant I was unable to gain access to the vehicle, which I accidentally superlocked when the lock failed.

To gain access, I pushed a rubber door stop into the window above the door lock, while prying out the external trim, you have to be careful, but you can get about 1cm for access.
A borescope inspection camera is essential, I doubt you'd be able to see what you are doing without one.
I tried a grabber tool and a wire loop in a pipe, with no luck, they just wouldn't hold it tight enough.
A coathanger wire with a plastic pipe over it, needs to be bent just the right way to catch the rod and press down with the pipe to capture the rod.
I have a new appreciation for keyhole surgery!
As the rod was just sitting there with nothing holding it, it was hard to capture the rod with the wire, it was just flopping around when it made contact with the wire.
But after many attempts, I did manage to hook the wire onto the rod and pushed down with the pipe to capture the rod.
Pushing down will unlock, pulling up will lock, you have to get it at the right angle to work, while pushing the keyfob button to cause a resync.
I was probably being a bit too careful to not damage anything, but a good push at the right angle is what it needs.
After much effort, the central locking popped up, I couldn't believe it!
No alarm sounded, just like that I was able to open the doors and start the engine like normal.
With the window wound down, I was able to lock and unlock with the repaired remote again, great result!

Then I replaced the drivers door handle, all is back in working order once again.
I probably could not have done this without the amazing help from Lee at LAB electronics, I can't recommend him highly enough, he is very knowledgeable with P38s and a great guy too!
Thank you to Alan on this forum for the contact details, that was a huge help.

To any P38 owner, 2 working key fobs are very important to have, that way you have a back up and can save yourself dramas like this.
Lucky for me, mine failed in a car park where a tray tow truck could drag the P38 up using skis under the tyres, it wasn't pretty, but I did manage to get it home and in my driveway at least.
If you do find yourself in this situation, whatever you do, don't panic and make things worse, sometimes it's what you don't do that saves the day.
Mine was superlocked, which required a key fob resync to resolve, but if you start smashing windows or breaking in, the vehicle may think it is being broken into and trigger an EKA key lockout.
That would be a worse situation, where the EKA code would need to be input using the method described above. I don't know if that would even be possible, although theoretically it could be done, you would have to get a lot of pushes and pulls just right, much easier with a key in the door.
I hope this helps someone in this situation, it's not where you want to find yourself!
I was without my P38 for 2 1/2 weeks while getting this resolved.
But it's not the end of the world, it is possible to fix.
Pete.

[Saulman1010]

Yey!
When the door buttons jumped up you must of felt like a bank robber cracking the safe!

A lesson in patence and learnings for us all. Thx.

Mjs

[old dirt bikes]

Yey!
When the door buttons jumped up you must of felt like a bank robber cracking the safe!

A lesson in patence and learnings for us all. Thx.

Mjs


Hi Peter, I am glad I could help. I have learnt so much from this forum it is the least I could do to help someone else when they need help. I guess all P38 owners will be out checking their door locks this weekend. I am building a mezzanine floor in my shed (6.6 mt by 9 mt ) so I have a bit on my plate at the moment, but as soon as I get some spare time I will be checking inside my drivers door.
Regards,
Alan Temperley