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prelude
20th October 2021, 11:24 PM
I know this is mostly specific to the P38 but I reckon this is a general chat topic. I could have posted under technical but this is not necessarily a technical topic but an opinion piece (well asking for anyway) but! mods, feel free...

Anyway, I have been looking into making my P38 as campable as possible. The chinese flu has buggered the planning somewhat but that does not mean I have given up on my world travel ideas. I have been "fighting" with vehicle weight and comfort for quite some time now for those who have seen my posts throughout the years. Let us start with comfort.

We have been (the missus and me) camping out of a soft shell rooftop tent for 5 years now.

Pros

the space. Those things are actually quite roomy.
speed of setup. It takes less than 5 minutes to set it up
of the ground gives a (false?) sense of security
relatively light
wonderful all round views (except the rear)
very airy when it needs to be
privacy when we use the bottom zip on extension


Cons

though light, weight is up high
increased fuel consumption
extra bottom tent and poles and such to carry inside the vehicle


Those are just the bullet points. We have used the tent in -27c when traveling to the north cape and it was quite comfortable with a petroleum heater and an extra blanket but, the most important pro is also its most important con. It is a perfect tent to travel the oz outbakc in summer or to use in the african bush. Sleep in a fairly airy and breezy tent and wake up to a magnificent sunrise, perhaps even surrounded by wildlife if you are lucky. That same benefit also becomes a downside in south east asia when it's almost constantly wet or in patagonia where the wind does not let down. The rtt becomes a damp, moldy and noisy nuisance.

Couple that to the range rovers max carrying capacity of around 780kg (let's say 800) and I was starting to look around at alternatives. To make an easy bullet point list again, these in my opinion are the options (towing is not an option imho, I'll get into that later)



hard shell rtt

less space and comfort than a soft shell
MUCH faster to put away
less chance of mold
probably a lot more wind proof
less visibility
HEAVY


pop top roof conversion

life inside vehicle
"ultimate" comfort
more weight on top but less than a hard shell I reckon
expensive
limited vehicle choice, and with that
less comfortable to drive


4x4 van of some sort

no need for conversion
all weight down low
"big" and not very 4wd capable
even less comfortable to drive potentially



Of those three options, the pop top roof conversion seems to tick the most boxes since it allows one to use a very capable 4x4 as the basis for the vehicle and then simple make a cross between the venerable camper van and the (hard shell) roof top tent with (almost) none of the downsides of the other options. The only real downside I can see is that there really seem to be only two vehicles that will allow for the amount of space a van has; the troopy and a converted 130.

Putting everything back into perspective once again I found that the 110 is smaller than a troopy but not by much, you miss the most in the width of the vehicle. Also, the leaf springs in the back of the 70 series are not very appealing in terms of ride quality and the spring that hangs below the axle that will be the first thing to catch on anything. So it's back to the defender then. If the 110 is a bit small-ish, the 130 could be an option but the huge turning radius and breakover angle could be problematic. I know of the frenchy/oz couple doing a world trip in a 130 with a jack off camper, I find it somewhat appealing but I am not sure on that setup. Also, I do not really need a double cab. I have seen a company in OZ that has done a pop top roof conversion of a 130, turning it into a 130 van first and adding the roof later. I think there is a lot of space in there but again, the vehicle might become a tad too big.

When I thought about these variables I decided to make a bit of a list with things like dimensions turning circle, weight, gvm, etc. To my surprise the difference in weight carrying capacity between a range rover and a 110 is "only" 200kg or thereabouts. A 130 can't really take THAT much more than a 110 and the troopy wins out hands down with almost 500K more than a P38 iirc.

The thing is, the P38 doesn't lend itself to chopping up the roof for a pop top conversion due the the raked rear. To no ones surprise I guess there is this guy from Blighty who actually did what I had been pondering about for months :) Range Rover Overland camper build diary : part 1 - BeaDy (http://www.beady.com/blog/my-mission-to-build-the-best-overland-camper-ever/range-rover-overland-camper-build-diary-part-1/)

Now, far be it for me to steal the guys exact design but it is close to what I would do and seeing as he managed to keep the weight of the vehicle within spec and keep it comfortable and reliable... I am quite intrigued by this whole idea.

The way I see it, a P38 is a really comfortable way of traveling, much more comfortable than a troopy or defender I reckon and if I keep using the P38 as is I would certainly need to look into towing a small trailer for some of the heavier stuff. That is all fine and well but like the rtt, it only works in say OZ because in most other parts of the world that thing becomes a hindrance.

So here is one for the campfire chat; did I miss anything? Would you put the hacksaw into your (P38 or whatever)? There is no returning from there!

Cheers!
-P

jerryd
21st October 2021, 08:03 AM
I'm all in favour of the ''pop top'' [smilebigeye]

It's the easiest and quickest way to set up camp

Saitch
21st October 2021, 08:35 AM
My first thoughts were the Dormobile style, but as stated, canvas is going to get wet and soggy, especially in Europe. This leads to a 'Van' type vehicle.
What about a 101, or small Unimog? Too big?
I'm following this with bated breath!

V8Ian
21st October 2021, 08:40 AM
How about a pop-up with vinyl rather than canvas?

trout1105
21st October 2021, 10:40 AM
Have you thought about towing a small caravan?

prelude
21st October 2021, 07:31 PM
@Saitch I love the idea of a mog, but they are very problematic on the road. In short:


the newer models are too big, you require a trucking license
they no longer fit even a high cube container (required for shipping since roro is....)
parts are unobtainium in some parts of the world
prohibitively expensive to buy
when a mog gets stuck... it is STUCK


a 101 is charming, but in the comfort department it might not cut the bill. The same goes for an older mog.

@V8ian That had not yet crossed my mind, good one! I would have to research what is possible and how that would work out. I have experience with covers and tents and what not on yachts so I know a few companies who produce that kinda stuff. Keeping the canvas on the outside but having a thin inner layer of vinyl would keep the damp out when closed.

I have seen builds that are solid all round and have a double wall, lifting a part of the exterior wall up so everything is wind and water proof (and insulated I would guess) but that does add to the total thickness of the wall (doubles it at least) and adds at least 3 walls in weight. Could be doable since the paneling can be made very light but still. I tried to find a picture of it but can't find, of course :) but you get the gist I hope.

@trout1105 for the same reason (and I guess even more so since a caravan is a lot bigger and heavier) I do not want to drive around with a trailer, a caravan is not really an option. What the caravan and the ute with jack off camper concept have in common is that you can leave your home "wherever" and take the car out on a nice track for example, or, perhaps even more importantly when something breaks and needs repairing in a far off place waiting for parts etc. it is nice to have the car in bits but your house in tact. Other than that I think a caravan is not suitable for most things I would like to do and it does put quite a bit of strain on the vehicle.

Cheers,
-P

prelude
21st October 2021, 07:32 PM
double reply somehow, ignore this one

V8Ian
21st October 2021, 07:49 PM
Many truck tarps and all curtain side trucks are vinyl, these days. The only draw back I envision is the propensity to condensation.

jerryd
21st October 2021, 07:58 PM
How about a pop-up with vinyl rather than canvas?

They are a vinyl type material [smilebigeye]


Have a look at this beauty that just sold in the usa [bigwhistle] Not for the purists, but that motor is something else. Watch the videos

Vortec-Powered 1964 Land Rover 109 Series IIA Dormobile 5-Speed for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $52,000 on July 2, 2021 (Lot #50,621) | Bring a Trailer (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1964-land-rover-109-series-iia-4x4-4/)

prelude
22nd October 2021, 10:36 PM
That series landrover looks a bit... off with that nose :) Other than that, nice build!

I never considered a dormobile style roof, judging by the pictures on that ad I think it would also work quite well but somehow the whole world seems to go for the lenght-wise pop-up. Not entirely sure why but it is certainly easier to construct.

Anyway, I have been looking around a bit more and I remembered where I saw those fixed pictures. Not the prettiest example but here you go: Rover 130 (https://www.innovation-campers.de/index.php/link-rover/rover-130) scroll down to the "Schachtelhubdach" almost at the bottom of the page. There is also this french guy (I believe) who did a 110 with a lifting roof or should I say, lifting station part :) The entire rear end was duplicated and lifted up vertically creating a room the size of the 110 station part anyway with solid walls. There was also a vid on youtube of it, gotit :) Couple's own Paris-Dakar using Land Rover transformer-camper - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LS3BBdvnw8)

Apart from the heavy stuff maybe I find it... has something. Driving it looks fine, lifted it looks a bit weird but something like this on the back of the chopped P38 could also be an option.

Decisions decisions [bighmmm]

Cheers,
-P

RANDLOVER
24th October 2021, 11:50 AM
Practical Motorhome Doubleback VW Camper review - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIG9P0lB1iA)

How about a slide out camper and put the pop top in the back half so you don't have to cut the P38 roof, similar to this.

jerryd
24th October 2021, 05:41 PM
Practical Motorhome Doubleback VW Camper review - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIG9P0lB1iA)

How about a slide out camper and put the pop top in the back half so you don't have to cut the P38 roof, similar to this.

I'd sell the range rover and buy a vw doubleback camper [biggrin]

V8Ian
24th October 2021, 06:07 PM
The Kombi would need stabilizers each end, too.

prelude
25th October 2021, 07:19 PM
@roverlord, fascinating idea! Not sure how that would work since the interior space of the standard range rover is not that big and the tailgate would prevent a pop-up construction but it is worth looking into. I think though that things are getting complicated real quick :)

In all honesty though, throughout my years dreaming of travel I have bounced from a honda accord aerodeck (because they had that small glassed roof area in the back for looking at stars) when I still naively thought that would work, moving up to a civic shuttle (honda fan, can you tell?!) because it had "4wd" to a mercedes (pre sprinter) van and now over to a proper 4wd. Oh, I thought about backpacking for a short while and I pretty much written of motorbikes.

As some of my previous discussions here on AULRO may have given away, it's not easy to find / create / build a vehicle that will work on all continents and ticks as many boxes as possible on your wish list. Since I like greenlaning and going of the beaten track a lot, a true 4bee is pretty much a must. Not because of the ground clearance and proper 4WD perse, but a box van or camper would simply start to become to big (and fragile). Also, buidling a vehicle per continent is not within my budget I should think.

I'll look more into the camper conversion idea for now, but if you think putting a saw to a new vehicle is scary, try doing it to a 20+ year old special vehicle like an autobiography P38 since you know they are not made anymore... :unsure:

Cheers,
-P