Have A Question About Storm Water Pipes

[1950landy]

Dose any one know ? If one neighbour does not have enough fall to run there storm water pipes out to the gutter & they run the pipes through there neighbour's property who is responsible for these pipes.
Why I ask our neighbour 2 house up has done that & it seams the pipe is broken in the property next door to us . The owner 2 up is having a pool installed & the builders keep having to pump the rain water out of the pool which end's up on out back yard& no water is going out into the street. For years I have complained to the council about the water coming through the retaining wall but the council just keep telling me because our house is below the house next door I had to expect it which I appreciate & have installed extra drains along the property boundary , also raised the floor level in our sunken lounge room to stop the water entering the house, but now it appears there is a broken storm water pipe after spending over $10,000 .
So my question is who is responsible for fixing the pipe the pool owner says he is not because it is in the neighbour's yard so this neighbour & I should be paying or I should be paying , my thoughts are the pool owner should be paying Or booth neighbour's should be paying . The other twist to this story is booth these neighbour's only bought these houses just over a year ago so booth believe neither are responsible, my house is about 38 years old , the house next door about 35 years & the house with the pool about 30years. also all the water off the roof of the house with the pool goes down this broken storm water pipe so all that ends up in our yard. I have put in a fresh complaint to the council but will have to wait a couple of weeks to get a reply & the pool will be filled with water by next week & the owner will be free to back wash & pump extra water if the pool becomes full .
So what would others do , I know if things were reversed the pipe would be on the mend rite now & this guy sees it costing hom money.

[V8Ian]

Go direct to the councillor.

[DieselLSE]

You'll need to check your state regulations with your water authority, but normally a shared facility like a storm water or sewerage pipe is the responsibility of all properties that share that facility. Unless a particular property owner has been negligent (like using a post hole digger that damages the pipe) any repairs and maintenance would normally be shared equally by all connected properties.
In the first instance, I'd be contacting your water authority. They will know where the pipe runs and which properties are connected. They will also advise on getting the pipe repaired and the flow rate that the pipe can accept. They may even inspect the pipe to determine if there's a leak, but I suspect they'll refer you to a plumber.
In a general sense, you can certainly sue for damages caused by a neighbor's negligence.
As for the pool, a storm water system in good order should easily be able to handle backwash etc. flows. However, should the system need to be upgraded (as determined by the water authority) then the full cost would normally be borne by the pool owner. Presumably, the pool has passed inspection. This may have been done privately, but the council will have the paperwork.

[1950landy]

Go direct to the councillor.

Have done that , she wasn't there but lady on desk was very helpful . She has started the ball rolling & did what she said she would before I got home, which is a good start. I can find a bit on the council's web site about running SW Pipes through neighbours property but nothing to say who is responsible when things go wrong . I suggested to the pool owner to get a camera put down the pipe to where & why it is broken but he expects me to pay & just says he is not paying for anything .

[1950landy]

You'll need to check your state regulations with your water authority, but normally a shared facility like a storm water or sewerage pipe is the responsibility of all properties that share that facility. Unless a particular property owner has been negligent (like using a post hole digger that damages the pipe) any repairs and maintenance would normally be shared equally by all connected properties.
In the first instance, I'd be contacting your water authority. They will know where the pipe runs and which properties are connected. They will also advise on getting the pipe repaired and the flow rate that the pipe can accept. They may even inspect the pipe to determine if there's a leak, but I suspect they'll refer you to a plumber.
In a general sense, you can certainly sue for damages caused by a neighbour's negligence.
As for the pool, a storm water system in good order should easily be able to handle backwash etc. flows. However, should the system need to be upgraded (as determined by the water authority) then the full cost would normally be borne by the pool owner. Presumably, the pool has passed inspection. This may have been done privately, but the council will have the paperwork.

The pool has not been inspected as yet think it will happen in next week. There are two pipes running out into the street next to one another not sure but think one is for one house & the other the other house . the pool owner tells me he had a smoke test done but would not tell me the result & as far as I know there has been no digging or drilling in either property. There may be trees that may have damaged the pipes. The property next door is about 2.5 m's above ours & there is a wooden fence on top of the wall that would be 1200mm high so can not see in the back yard. I am going to see if guy next door will put a hose down his storm water pipe on weekend & see he the two houses are connected. I have a complaint with BCC at the moment if that dose not work I will try the Qld Water Authority. I am not sure they will know were the pipes run , I rang Diel Before You Dig once & nothing was any where near where they said it was.

[Homestar]

Plug the pipe…

[1950landy]

Plug the pipe…
That is not going to work , it is not in my property & all the down pipes on the pool house all feed the pipe & it is leaking under ground in the middle property . I am just the guy who is copping all the water & the pool owner expects me to pay,[bigrolf]

[ian4002000]

I work in the pool in industry in Victoria, I think down here pool waste water should go to sewerage unless directed that this is not possible in sewer pressure systems that cant handle the volume.
You will need to get the water authority to do their job and come up with a solution to the problem.

Good luck

Ian
Bittern

[Roverlord off road spares]

we have problems in our street a shop car park when it rains heavy runs down to the adjacent neighbour to it. Council say it's natural fall of the land. Well there was no problem before the carpark went in. Another neighbour asked to plans if te drainage of his property. the was no storm WATER DRAINAGE ON HIS PROPERTY. NATURAL FALL OFF THE LAND SENDS IT DOWN THE HILL INTO OTHER PROPERTIES, IT RUNS TO THE NARURAL FALL OF THE LAND!

[Homestar]

That is not going to work , it is not in my property & all the down pipes on the pool house all feed the pipe & it is leaking under ground in the middle property . I am just the guy who is copping all the water & the pool owner expects me to pay,[bigrolf]

Do you get on with the neighbour? Can you work together to identify the leak then plug it?

I can’t see how it’s your problem - it may mean a trip to a Lawyer to get a letter sent though. How did the pipe even get put in - is there anything is writing signed by anyone saying they could do it?

There’s no way I’d allow someone else to run a pipe through my yard for any reason as how do you know years later if there would be any issues due to trees, etc?

I wish you all the best - it sucks that you have to do the legwork and spend money to prove someone else’s problem and incompetence.

[Saitch]

Dose any one know ? If one neighbour does not have enough fall to run there storm water pipes out to the gutter & they run the pipes through there neighbour's property who is responsible for these pipes.
Why I ask our neighbour 2 house up has done that & it seams the pipe is broken in the property next door to us . The owner 2 up is having a pool installed & the builders keep having to pump the rain water out of the pool which end's up on out back yard& no water is going out into the street. For years I have complained to the council about the water coming through the retaining wall but the council just keep telling me because our house is below the house next door I had to expect it which I appreciate & have installed extra drains along the property boundary , also raised the floor level in our sunken lounge room to stop the water entering the house, but now it appears there is a broken storm water pipe after spending over $10,000 .
So my question is who is responsible for fixing the pipe the pool owner says he is not because it is in the neighbour's yard so this neighbour & I should be paying or I should be paying , my thoughts are the pool owner should be paying Or booth neighbour's should be paying . The other twist to this story is booth these neighbour's only bought these houses just over a year ago so booth believe neither are responsible, my house is about 38 years old , the house next door about 35 years & the house with the pool about 30years. also all the water off the roof of the house with the pool goes down this broken storm water pipe so all that ends up in our yard. I have put in a fresh complaint to the council but will have to wait a couple of weeks to get a reply & the pool will be filled with water by next week & the owner will be free to back wash & pump extra water if the pool becomes full .
So what would others do , I know if things were reversed the pipe would be on the mend rite now & this guy sees it costing hom money.

If there is a stormwater pipe running from a connected property (the benefited property) through adjoining properties, I would think that there would be an easement(s), in which the pipes should be located, over the burdened properties i.e. the properties that the pipes run through, that don't use the pipes. The RP/SP Registered Plan of your property would show these.

Local gov is the best way to go, if they're interested?

[1950landy]

I work in the pool in industry in Victoria, I think down here pool waste water should go to sewerage unless directed that this is not possible in sewer pressure systems that cant handle the volume.
You will need to get the water authority to do their job and come up with a solution to the problem.

Good luck

Ian
Bittern

In Qld waist water from pool goes out to the street , I will look into the water authority if I get no were with Council. I have a question for you if you work in the industry , If the pool builder knows the pipe is broken & installs a temporary waist water drain to get the pool certified then removes this temporary drain so the waist water is going into the leaking drain & then into our property knowing this is going to happen & knowing the pool owner is not going to repair the drain & has stated he will be putting the waist water down the drain is this an etherical practice , I think the pool builder has a duty of care to make sure the waist water is going out to the street . Would this make the certification null envied. I have tried contacting SPASA but they have not replied to my email.

I have at lase been contacted by SPASA & are not interested that one of there members is happy to let the pool builder hand over a pool that when water is pumped out of it enters a neighbours property , Toothless tigers like Builders Registration Authority with our 1st house we found the builder had left a support beam out of the roof causing the overhang over the 4m X 2.5m Front / Veranda to drop about 60mm & house gutter would overflow flooding under the house, I contacted the Builder & he would do nothing , contacted the BRA & they told me there was nothing they could do & just fix it our selves . We ended up putting a 90mm SHS post from the ground through the veranda to the roof after jacking the roof up . Was lucky my father owned a steel fabrication business so ended up costing me nothing except some cement & some time.

[V8Ian]

I think SEQ Water is only responsible for harvesting rainwater and supplying potable water. BCC is the responsible legislator and enforcement agency concerning drainage. I'm quite prepared to be corrected.

[1950landy]

Do you get on with the neighbour? Can you work together to identify the leak then plug it?

I can’t see how it’s your problem - it may mean a trip to a Lawyer to get a letter sent though. How did the pipe even get put in - is there anything is writing signed by anyone saying they could do it?

There’s no way I’d allow someone else to run a pipe through my yard for any reason as how do you know years later if there would be any issues due to trees, etc?

I wish you all the best - it sucks that you have to do the legwork and spend money to prove someone else’s problem and incompetence.

I get on with all our neighbours except this one & know the guy the other side of him has had issues with him also, You can't reason with him.
I have thought about a Lawyer & have been trying to work which one to see who deal in this type of complaint.
I have found a Qld Gov Neighbourhood Mediation site which hopefully would cut the cost of the Lawyer but yes still have to do all the leg work then go into the city for meetings & with a sick wife to care for I don't think it is going to happen.
174869 This photo shows the 3 houses bottom house is pool owner the small pool is being built at the front of the house where the trees are , damaged pipe is some were in the back yard in the yellow line & our house is top of photo . The water that enters our yard then runs over into the property behind ours & so far they have not complained , each od the 4 properties are lower than the one above it.
174870174871 These are from the BCC web site about storm water pipes.

[1950landy]

I think SEQ Water is only responsible for harvesting rainwater and supplying potable water. BCC is the responsible legislator and enforcement agency concerning drainage. I'm quite prepared to be corrected.

I think you are correct Ian . I have not found anything on the State Gov web sites about it I think it is because every Council has different rules .

[1950landy]

If there is a stormwater pipe running from a connected property (the benefited property) through adjoining properties, I would think that there would be an easement(s), in which the pipes should be located, over the burdened properties i.e. the properties that the pipes run through, that don't use the pipes. The RP/SP Registered Plan of your property would show these.

Local gov is the best way to go, if they're interested?

Thanks for that See my reply to Homestar #14

[1950landy]

we have problems in our street a shop car park when it rains heavy runs down to the adjacent neighbour to it. Council say it's natural fall of the land. Well there was no problem before the carpark went in. Another neighbour asked to plans if te drainage of his property. the was no storm WATER DRAINAGE ON HIS PROPERTY. NATURAL FALL OFF THE LAND SENDS IT DOWN THE HILL INTO OTHER PROPERTIES, IT RUNS TO THE NARURAL FALL OF THE LAND!

In the 30 years I have spoken to the council about the water I have been told it is because we have built below the houses above us & I accept that I will get water from the houses above us but I know now that there is a broken storm water pipe that is causing excess water to flow into our property instead of out into the street & the home owner whose water it is expects me to fix it at my expense.

[Xtreme]

IIRC natural above ground stormwater flow from a higher property is usually acceptable. What is unacceptable from a higher property is concentrated flow - and this is what you'd be experiencing from the broken pipe.
From my understanding of your posts, this broken pipe is draining stormwater from the two private properties above you and as such each of those properties should have an easement for drainage through your property and they would be jointly responsible for maintaining the pipe which is benefitting them, not you.
Maybe you could/should obtain a quote from a plumber/drainer and send it to both of your neighbours with an accompanying letter from your solicitor stating that due to the health hazard caused by their broken pipe that you intend to have it repaired and demanding that they jointly cover all associated repair costs.
Probably a letter to council advising of your action including mention of anticipated increased flows if the new pool is approved and becomes operational would also be worthwhile. It may even draw their attention to the flushing and draining of excess pool water, which should go directly (via the easement and properly functioning drainage pipe) to the street and not into your yard.
It's always better to document dealings in black & white rather than discussing by phone or face to face. And if phone or face to face discussions occur then keep a diary record of them &/or confirm them via email.

[Saitch]

I get on with all our neighbours except this one & know the guy the other side of him has had issues with him also, You can't reason with him.
I have thought about a Lawyer & have been trying to work which one to see who deal in this type of complaint.
I have found a Qld Gov Neighbourhood Mediation site which hopefully would cut the cost of the Lawyer but yes still have to do all the leg work then go into the city for meetings & with a sick wife to care for I don't think it is going to happen.
174869 This photo shows the 3 houses bottom house is pool owner the small pool is being built at the front of the house where the trees are , damaged pipe is some were in the back yard in the yellow line & our house is top of photo . The water that enters our yard then runs over into the property behind ours & so far they have not complained , each od the 4 properties are lower than the one above it.
174870174871 These are from the BCC web site about storm water pipes.

I just had a look at the Cadastre and there are no Storm water easements over any of the properties involved.
There is a fair slope which, as you mentioned and are aware of, will result in overland flow.
It is not permitted to stop or significantly alter the overland flow from the original, subdivision design, albeit allowing for buildings, driveways etc.
If there is an issue with a concentration of storm water, which would not be classed as reasonable overland flow, then I would be of the opinion that the responsibility of addressing the problem lies with the owner of the property, where the source of the flow is located.

Keep on BCC's back.

I hope you don't mind my stalking you, from your photo? [bighmmm]

Steve

[1950landy]

I just had a look at the Cadastre and there are no Storm water easements over any of the properties involved.
There is a fair slope which, as you mentioned and are aware of, will result in overland flow.
It is not permitted to stop or significantly alter the overland flow from the original, subdivision design, albeit allowing for buildings, driveways etc.
If there is an issue with a concentration of storm water, which would not be classed as reasonable overland flow, then I would be of the opinion that the responsibility of addressing the problem lies with the owner of the property, where the source of the flow is located.

Keep on BCC's back.

I hope you don't mind my stalking you, from your photo? [bighmmm]

Steve

Thank you, I will be keeping on BCC back unlike last time were they told me there was nothing I could do , this time I know when water goes into the pool owners pipe it comes out in our yard & no water runs out the pipes in the gutter in front of the middle house . I am hopping the owner of the house in the middle will assist in helping to find out if the pool owners drains are connected to his. As can be seen in the photo there are no large trees in the middle house's back yard & the trees in the photo are in the house at the back of them & lower than there property. I will see what the Council comes back with & may make an appointment with our Councillor& put my case to her . before talking to a lawyer. I will have a talk with the Lawyer we use for our business & see if he can refer some one that deals in this type of thing. My problem is I am too easy going & do not want to get into an argument with the neighbours .

[3toes]

Not wanting to spend your cash but is the missing link here the ‘proof’ that the pipe is broken and causing the problem?

[1950landy]

Not wanting to spend your cash but is the missing link here the ‘proof’ that the pipe is broken and causing the problem?

The proof I have is that the water only flows through the wall when water goes down into his storm water drains , I asked the pool owner to run water down the storm water pipe & within a couple the water was flowing through the retaining wall & there was no water running out the pipe in the street, he than turned the hose off & the water stopped coming through the wall. He did get a plumber in to check & I am told by the house owner the plumber did a smoke test & I do not know what other test he did & reported the pipe is broken in the middle property but did not know where . The pool owner is refusing to get a camera put down the pipe to see what & where the leak is. The plumber never came to our house to check anything as far as I know & if he did I had not been asked if he could enter our property which I would not have refused .

[windsock]

Can the camera enter the pipe from the street, thus bypassing the person refusing to let it enter from the origin?

[1950landy]

Can the camera enter the pipe from the street, thus bypassing the person refusing to let it enter from the origin?

It can do , but may have to do a 90deg turn once it gets to back of house . I spoke to neighbour in the middle yesterday & he knew nothing of what was going on & he was fine with what I have told him . I am thinking if it geos bad for him & the full cost falls on him I may offer to pay some or all the cost for the camera inspection . I feel for him , he ahs bought the house from the original owners has a young family , we have no idea if the original owner gave permission for the pipe to run through his property or connect to his storm water. People giving permission to allow pipes to run through there property should be told up front if this happens they could be responsible for the repair if it turns out that they has to pay for the repair.

[Saitch]

It can do , but may have to do a 90deg turn once it gets to back of house . I spoke to neighbour in the middle yesterday & he knew nothing of what was going on & he was fine with what I have told him . I am thinking if it geos bad for him & the full cost falls on him I may offer to pay some or all the cost for the camera inspection . I feel for him , he ahs bought the house from the original owners has a young family , we have no idea if the original owner gave permission for the pipe to run through his property or connect to his storm water. People giving permission to allow pipes to run through there property should be told up front if this happens they could be responsible for the repair if it turns out that they has to pay for the repair.

If this is the case, then it's not a 'Lawful Point of Discharge'. Rectification still appears to be the responsibility of the top property.
To be honest, I don't think BCC would be too happy with a 'Private' storm water connection. In 99.99% of the time, any pipes from one property to another need to have an easement over them.

[Xtreme]

Have you considered the approach outlined in post #18 ..................

"IIRC natural above ground stormwater flow from a higher property is usually acceptable. What is unacceptable from a higher property is concentrated flow - and this is what you'd be experiencing from the broken pipe.
From my understanding of your posts, this broken pipe is draining stormwater from the two private properties above you and as such each of those properties should have an easement for drainage through your property and they would be jointly responsible for maintaining the pipe which is benefitting them, not you.
Maybe you could/should obtain a quote from a plumber/drainer and send it to both of your neighbours with an accompanying letter from your solicitor stating that due to the health hazard caused by their broken pipe that you intend to have it repaired and demanding that they jointly cover all associated repair costs.
Probably a letter to council advising of your action including mention of anticipated increased flows if the new pool is approved and becomes operational would also be worthwhile. It may even draw their attention to the flushing and draining of excess pool water, which should go directly (via the easement and properly functioning drainage pipe) to the street and not into your yard.
It's always better to document dealings in black & white rather than discussing by phone or face to face. And if phone or face to face discussions occur then keep a diary record of them &/or confirm them via email."

[1950landy]

Have you considered the approach outlined in post #18 ..................

"IIRC natural above ground stormwater flow from a higher property is usually acceptable. What is unacceptable from a higher property is concentrated flow - and this is what you'd be experiencing from the broken pipe.
From my understanding of your posts, this broken pipe is draining stormwater from the two private properties above you and as such each of those properties should have an easement for drainage through your property and they would be jointly responsible for maintaining the pipe which is benefitting them, not you.
Maybe you could/should obtain a quote from a plumber/drainer and send it to both of your neighbours with an accompanying letter from your solicitor stating that due to the health hazard caused by their broken pipe that you intend to have it repaired and demanding that they jointly cover all associated repair costs.
Probably a letter to council advising of your action including mention of anticipated increased flows if the new pool is approved and becomes operational would also be worthwhile. It may even draw their attention to the flushing and draining of excess pool water, which should go directly (via the easement and properly functioning drainage pipe) to the street and not into your yard.
It's always better to document dealings in black & white rather than discussing by phone or face to face. And if phone or face to face discussions occur then keep a diary record of them &/or confirm them via email."

I have done all these things & will wait until the council come back to me in next week or so , just got to hope we don't have any big storms before then , although it would be nice to get a video during heavy rain showing how much water is flowing through the wall with one & may be two house roofs feeding into the pipe. I have one with the water flow when the water was being pumped out of the pool already & another when we had 2mm of rain taken at night so bit hard to see.

[V8Ian]

None of the pipes run through the OP's property (property A.). The neighbour's neighbor (property C.) runs their stormwater pipe through the neighbour's (property B.) to the road gutter.
Each property is higher than its neighbour, ascending from property A.
The pipe from property C is routed through property B (legally or otherwise) and has broken in property B, causing underground seepage into property A.
Property A owner has no authority to commission a plumber to work on property B or C, let alone claim costs.

[Xtreme]

Thanks for the clarification Ian. I must read posts more carefully in future.

So therefore it appears that the owner of property B needs to get the repair quote and sort out costs/payment with the owner of property A.

It would be interesting to know if the leak/break is U/S or D/S of property B's stormwater. the break could be (and very likely is) at the (non standard/illegal?) junction with property B's stormwater pipe.

[1950landy]

Well received an Email from the Council yesterday stating they have sent the neighbour two doors up from us a letter giving them the opportunity to resolve the matter through voluntary compliance with in 30 days . Not sure how that is going to go as he has already told me he will not do any more investigation to find the leak & is not going to pay any money to fix it . It is getting close to Christmas so I guess nothing will be done until the new year.

[V8Ian]

Any progress on this?

[350RRC]

Well received an Email from the Council yesterday stating they have sent the neighbour two doors up from us a letter giving them the opportunity to resolve the matter through voluntary compliance with in 30 days . Not sure how that is going to go as he has already told me he will not do any more investigation to find the leak & is not going to pay any money to fix it . It is getting close to Christmas so I guess nothing will be done until the new year.

.....'through voluntary compliance' suggests they've sent 'im a letter suggesting non-compliance.

DL

[1950landy]

Any progress on this?

No have to wait until 2nd December to report back to council . Guy has not bothered to come & see me yet is too busy getting his pool finished & new grass on footpath. Guy next door tells me the guy with the pool has not spoken to him either.

[LRJim]

No have to wait until 2nd December to report back to council . Guy has not bothered to come & see me yet is too busy getting his pool finished & new grass on footpath. Guy next door tells me the guy with the pool has not spoken to him either.He's probably sick of getting blamed for a broken pipe that's not on his property, if it's broken on your neighbours property he will have to front the costs. Most likely him or the previous owner has had work done and the pipe got broken and was never fixed.
Yes the pool owner should allow an inspection from his end, but at the end of the day if it's not broken on his property it's not his problem. If him or the builders caused the leak somehow and you can prove that's the case then sure he will have to front the costs.
IF the pipe can't handle the extra load when it's fixed which I highly doubt that it won't be able to, then yes its up to him to increase the pipe size over all 3 properties.
Sorry to sound like a ***** but really that's the way it's gonna end up for you guys.

Cheers

[V8Ian]

But the pipe has been run through property 2 illegally.

[LRJim]

But the pipe has been run through property 2 illegally.What's to say it's illegal? The house would never have been allowed occupancy if the LPD wasn't abided by. Sometimes an easement isn't put in place over shared services, not common but it happens. If there's an agreement with the council/owners of the properts/waterboard etc it will be documented.
If not then plug the pipe up the pool guys end and split the cost to fix the pipe with the neighbour, or make him run his own storm water out to the street also.
I'd just split the cost with the neighbour and be done with it

[Saitch]

What's to say it's illegal? The house would never have been allowed occupancy if the LPD wasn't abided by. Sometimes an easement isn't put in place over shared services, not common but it happens. If there's an agreement with the council/owners of the properts/waterboard etc it will be documented.
If not then plug the pipe up the pool guys end and split the cost to fix the pipe with the neighbour, or make him run his own storm water out to the street also.
I'd just split the cost with the neighbour and be done with it

You're assuming that the pipe work involved was carried out during the subdivision development, house construction or just a gentlemen's agreement. If either or both of the latter, it is illegal without council approval. If it was a part of the subdivision, there would be a storm water easement shown on the properties' Registered Survey Plan, which there isn't.

[V8Ian]

When these satellite suburbs boomed, thirty to forty years ago, the work was being done, faster than the Council Building Inspectors could get around the sites.
Many rules were broken and short cuts taken during these times.

[Saitch]

When these satellite suburbs boomed, thirty to forty years ago, the work was being done, faster than the Council Building Inspectors could get around the sites.
Many rules were broken and short cuts taken during these times.

Get out! Where did you find that out? Google, Faecebook? [biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]

[V8Ian]

Get out! Where did you find that out? Google, Faecebook? [biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]
We so need a facetious smilie. [bigsmile1]

[austastar]

Hi,
What! You mean " 'as drawn' <> 'as constructed' "???
What is the world coming to.
Cheers

[Saitch]

Hi,
What! You mean " 'as drawn' <> 'as constructed' "???
What is the world coming to.
Cheers

I think I mentioned earlier in the thread re: checking the "As Con" plans in council. Best and probably cheapest way of getting some clarity on the issue.

From BCC.

Stormwater drainage infrastructure may be located in the street, on private property or in dedicated drainage easements.
To purchase a copy of an as-constructed stormwater drainage plan, visit Council (https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/about-council/contact/visit-council) or phone Council on 07 3403 8888 and request to speak to the Plan Custodian.
If you only want a specific section or specific plans from a plan set, you may view plans at the Plan Custodian counter. Selected copies may then be purchased. Phone Council on 07 3403 8888 for information on the location of the Plan Custodian customer service counter.
Copies of roofwater drainage plans

Private roofwater drainage infrastructure (downpipes, grated inlets, underground roofwater pipes, basement stormwater pump-out systems) for dwelling houses and commercial or multi-dwellings which is located within the private property may be shown on the drainage plans (dwelling houses) and is usually shown on as-constructed hydraulic plans (commercial or multi-dwellings). Find information on how to obtain drainage plans and as-constructed hydraulic plans (https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/planning-and-building/do-i-need-approval/residential-projects/plumbing-and-drainage/copies-of-plans-and-working-with-sewers-and-drains).

[1950landy]

I think I mentioned earlier in the thread re: checking the "As Con" plans in council. Best and probably cheapest way of getting some clarity on the issue.

From BCC.

Stormwater drainage infrastructure may be located in the street, on private property or in dedicated drainage easements.
To purchase a copy of an as-constructed stormwater drainage plan, visit Council (https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/about-council/contact/visit-council) or phone Council on 07 3403 8888 and request to speak to the Plan Custodian.
If you only want a specific section or specific plans from a plan set, you may view plans at the Plan Custodian counter. Selected copies may then be purchased. Phone Council on 07 3403 8888 for information on the location of the Plan Custodian customer service counter.
Copies of roofwater drainage plans

Private roofwater drainage infrastructure (downpipes, grated inlets, underground roofwater pipes, basement stormwater pump-out systems) for dwelling houses and commercial or multi-dwellings which is located within the private property may be shown on the drainage plans (dwelling houses) and is usually shown on as-constructed hydraulic plans (commercial or multi-dwellings). Find information on how to obtain drainage plans and as-constructed hydraulic plans (https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/planning-and-building/do-i-need-approval/residential-projects/plumbing-and-drainage/copies-of-plans-and-working-with-sewers-and-drains).

Few years ago I contacted DBYD before relocating our drive way & installing wall & also our own Pool, that was a waist of time & money , nothing was where they said it was & no drains were shown on what they sent me, also contacted council about where the drains from our down pipes ran & they did not know . Over the past 30+ years i sort of know where they run & have added a couple of extra drains to get rid of water entering from next door . It would seam the Council has no drainage plans for drainage from down pipes to street .

[roverrescue]

OP
Just so we are clear Ian summary #28 is accurate ?
From my reading that seems the case?

On your sat picture where do the storm to street outlets drain? On the corner your side of next door neighbours drive?

Neighbourly wranglings are the pits
When the “pool guy” does nothing AND
If you get on well with your direct neighbour

I think I would go like this:

Grab a few beers and your neighbour and a hose and fill his gutters - see where they drain to street.

Find a local plumber - you pay him/ her to scope the other outlet and find the location of the broken pipe and mark it on the ground.

Considering the fall in the street it can only be as deep as the discharge point - so unless the break is on your neighbours property line with pool guy digging down won’t be too difficult

Expose the pipe over a few beers.


Now the fun part - get your plumber to write up a quote including scoping - repair and filling hole.
Present this to the neighbour and mention if he doesn’t pay in 7 days his drain pipe will be capped and hole refilled.

Should get a response

[1950landy]

OP
Just so we are clear Ian summary #28 is accurate ?
From my reading that seems the case?

On your sat picture where do the storm to street outlets drain? On the corner your side of next door neighbours drive?

Neighbourly wranglings are the pits
When the “pool guy” does nothing AND
If you get on well with your direct neighbour

I think I would go like this:

Grab a few beers and your neighbour and a hose and fill his gutters - see where they drain to street.

Find a local plumber - you pay him/ her to scope the other outlet and find the location of the broken pipe and mark it on the ground.

Considering the fall in the street it can only be as deep as the discharge point - so unless the break is on your neighbours property line with pool guy digging down won’t be too difficult

Expose the pipe over a few beers.


Now the fun part - get your plumber to write up a quote including scoping - repair and filling hole.
Present this to the neighbour and mention if he doesn’t pay in 7 days his drain pipe will be capped and hole refilled.

Should get a response

175182 This is how i believe the pipes run . Red circle on front of house is pool , pipe runs from corner of house to join other pipes from the house , then across neighbours back yard down the side of the property into the street gutter. The arrowed dot is where it runs through the retaining wall. 175183 Not sure if the Video of water running through wall during light shower is going to work & this also happens when garden hose is put down the pool owners down pipe. A few things are not going to happen , 1/ I don't drink so no beer 2/ I am almost 72 so no digging 3/ His attitude is that I should have to pay for everything even though the pipes are not in our property. I will just wait for the Council , if he dose not come up with a solution by the 2nd of Dec he could be getting a fine. Seams the Video worked , when we have heavy rain this water flow is like a water fall & the water then runs from our property over to the people behind us. Also from the video you will see the water only runs through the wall in that point & no where else along the wall.

[roverrescue]

What a palaver

Without trying to be too negative
Whilst the pool guys storm is leaving his property underground I can see why he doesn’t care too much - once you block off the storm and it backs up to his place I’m sure he will be more forth coming to repair…
I’m guessing without formal easement over your neighbours property there will be legal wranglings irrespective of a council warning!!!


I fear for your direct neighbours gardens on your shared fence line! Is now the chance however to not only make repair to the storm line but also improve drainage behind your wall? What is the wall constructed of ?

Drainage is such a bear

S

[W&KO]

Our house and pool are lower than the street in front off us.

Our storm and pool water was run through the yard of the house behind us……at a guess and 20-30 years ago amd probably an agreement between builders (maybe the owners) at the time.

Fast forward to a few years ago….when we went to back flush the pool we had issues it would pump to the street infront of the house behind us…..so I purchase a length of lay flat house and rolled out out to our street each time I needed to back flush

This year…I figured I need to sort the back flush as the renters won’t be happy rolling out lay flat hose. So I shove a hose down the old piping and the water was no getting away, scratched my head as I could find where it was discharging….decided to ignore it thinking I may have got it wrong a few years ago…than I notice the yard behind us was much greener than everybody else. I than spotted my storm and pool water was coming out a a pipe in retaining wall….

A knock on the door he said they unearth some pipes twice during Reno’s and landscaping and didn’t understand where they come from. They blocked it off one than second time left open pipe as part of retaining wall.

After a quick discussion the neighbor and I agreed to me paying for the pipes to be re-connected.

I suspect if council get involved it’ll become very costly for somebody. Glad ours was resolved quickly amd only cost me a few hundred dollars.

[1950landy]

What a palaver

Without trying to be too negative
Whilst the pool guys storm is leaving his property underground I can see why he doesn’t care too much - once you block off the storm and it backs up to his place I’m sure he will be more forth coming to repair…
I’m guessing without formal easement over your neighbours property there will be legal wranglings irrespective of a council warning!!!


I fear for your direct neighbours gardens on your shared fence line! Is now the chance however to not only make repair to the storm line but also improve drainage behind your wall? What is the wall constructed of ?

Drainage is such a bear

S

Wall is hard wood sleepers . There is no where to block the drain as where it is in the gutter in the street no water runs out of it when the garden hose is put into the down pipe just runs out the wall . It could well be the pipe could be connected into the next door neighbours drain but this means there are two house roof's water going into one 90mm drain , that is a lot of water for one small drain . We have 4 X 90mm pipes running out to the street& even that it finds it hard to cope in a big storm.

[windsock]

Also from the video you will see the water only runs through the wall in that point & no where else along the wall.

A good thing the water is running clear, no dirt or silt build up on your side. Mud flow is worse than water flow...

[roverrescue]

Sorry I was a little unclear
To block his drain off you’ll need to dig in the neighbours yard along the fence/retaining wall side and find his storm.

Agree that a single 90 is well insufficient for those roof sizes of your neighbours houses.

Could you take the path of least resistance and get a nice spoon drain installed at the low side base of the retaining wall and run that to street ?

In a few years - the timber sleepers will be rotten out and need replacing (shared between you and neighbour)
While doing that repair can sort the pipe work behind the wall ???

I wish you the best of luck !

S

[1950landy]

Sorry I was a little unclear
To block his drain off you’ll need to dig in the neighbours yard along the fence/retaining wall side and find his storm.

Agree that a single 90 is well insufficient for those roof sizes of your neighbours houses.

Could you take the path of least resistance and get a nice spoon drain installed at the low side base of the retaining wall and run that to street ?

In a few years - the timber sleepers will be rotten out and need replacing (shared between you and neighbour)
While doing that repair can sort the pipe work behind the wall ???

I wish you the best of luck !

S
Have already done that about 10 years ago to stop the house brocks getting wet but to do the area where the water comes through I will need to empty the water tank pull up the pavers & cut them to install the drain. The retaining wall is about 30 years old & still appears to be good & it was built by the then neighbour on there side of the property boundary this wall is about 2M high in that area, we have a retaining wall approx 1/2 m from the boundary which is 1/2 m high . Our house was the 1st built & the small retaining wall was installed then , the house next door was built at least 5 years later then the house with the pool was built around 10 years after it . We don't have much luck , about 15 years ago the block of land on the bottom side of us was sold to a builder , he decided to cut the block to build . They cut the block the week before Christmas to 200mm from our retaining wall & was going to leave it until they came back to work mid January to build the retaining wall which is at least 2.5M to 3M high. Christmas Eve we had a big storm & the whole lot collapsed ripping out all our pool pipes & all the dirt on 3 sides of the pool , we were lucky the pool didn't go as well. It was mid February before we were able to fill the pool again .

[V8Ian]

Were the council of any assistance?

[1950landy]

Were the council of any assistance?

Not really, they told me on the phone to ring back on the 2/12 but letter stated 30days from date on letter sent. Was told they had closed the case thinking it was all sorted , so have reopened it & has been passed on to the next in line.[bighmmm] Was talking to guy next door , he has just bought a new off road caravan & is wanting to pour a slab for it to sit on so has contacted some one to put a camera up the pipe from the street end so pipe can be fixed before slab is poured. The only thing the other guy has told him is that he received a letter from the council & that was about a month ago. Big difference in the attitude of these two neighbours.

[1950landy]

Follow up on my last post. The last time I contacted the BCC on the date they told me to contact them they informed me they had closed the case because I had not been in contact with them & thought the problem had been fixed. I informed them that the neighbour had not come to see me after he had received there letter to him & he will not talk to me & the problem still exists. The said they would open a new case. I received another letter from the BCC telling me because we have had so much rain the problem is mine due to the fall of the land & I should get a drainer in to rectify the problem on my property.
Was talking to neighbour next door the other day about the new fence we( he & I )are having built & asked if the guy with the pool had spoken to him & he told me he had only said he had received a letter from the BCC, he also told him he would no longer be going half for the new dividing fence between there property's which he had originally said he would go halves in , said he could not afford it . He also tells me he thinks the pool guy is pumping water out of the pool onto the ground as when ever he cleans the pool the water runs through into his front yard making it very boggy . He is going to try to look over the fence next time to see what exactly the pool guy is doing . I have told him if he is to put in a complaint to the BCC & they will hit him with a fine which they told me they would do if he puts pool water down his storm water drain & it enters our property.
My next door neighbour has told me he is going to get some one to put a camera up the pipe as he is wanting to build a patio at the back & put in a slab for his new caravan & dose not want to have to dig it yo later. I have offered to pay part of the cost for the investigation. Unfortunately you can't pick your neighbours & have to take the good with the bad, This guy is the first in 38years that so far isn't so friendly .

[1950landy]

Were the council of any assistance?

As expected , useless, Closed the case before the date they asked me to ring back , then opened a new case & letters I receive from them have nothing to do with the problem . Looks like it is between me & the good neighbour to investigate. If we find it is in the pool owners property he will be getting the bill . Most of the people in the street are older retired people but we are getting these young people with some of the older ones moving into retirement villages & assisted care.

[RANDLOVER]

As expected , useless, Closed the case before the date they asked me to ring back , then opened a new case & letters I receive from them have nothing to do with the problem . Looks like it is between me & the good neighbour to investigate. If we find it is in the pool owners property he will be getting the bill . Most of the people in the street are older retired people but we are getting these young people with some of the older ones moving into retirement villages & assisted care.

You really do have to wonder about the councils/inspectors as my neighbour's had a grate/grille next to their driveway to drain rain water from the yard, but also had the downpipe from the garage tee-d into it, so it would overflow onto my property, I ended up tee-ing into the tee and running a slotted drainage pipe thru my garden beds (free extra rain water as I see it, especially in light rain) and then a solid pipe to under my back lawn to the drainage pipe under my retaining wall.

[350RRC]

You really do have to wonder about the councils/inspectors as my neighbour's had a grate/grille next to their driveway to drain rain water from the yard, but also had the downpipe from the garage tee-d into it, so it would overflow onto my property, I ended up tee-ing into the tee and running a slotted drainage pipe thru my garden beds (free extra rain water as I see it, especially in light rain) and then a solid pipe to under my back lawn to the drainage pipe under my retaining wall.

How did you get a council permit to do that? [biggrin]

[Arapiles]

There's this legal principle called the tort of nuisance ....

[1950landy]

The latest news with the the broken drain is , the neighbour next door & I have replaced the dividing fence between our properties & they had a machine in to drill the holes for the posts , during this process something has been disturbed , the water has stopped flowing through the wall , I can still hear it running but can no longer see where it is coming through because it is behind our water tank & fruit trees. In the mean time the neighbour 2 doors up has sold there house after refusing to do anything about his water & refusing to pay for half the dividing fence between his place & the middle neighbours after originally agreeing to pay then saying he could not afford it & wouldn't pay after the job had started . Well they paid $700,000 & sold for 1,100,000 not bad seeing they only put in a bath tub for a pool in the 1 1/2 year they owned it.
My immediate neighbour has said he will be getting a camera put up the drain as soon as he can afford it he has had to pay for new fences on top side , 2 neighbours at the back ( no one offered to go halves ) & half our dividing fence.
So wet season is over & we should not be getting too much water & hopefully we can check it out before the next wet season . I have also offered to pay for some of the cost of the camera check.
Thanks for every ones advice