GVM Upgrade

[Briar]

Just curious.

Can you do an Axle-Sum GVM upgrade on a D4?

Standard GVM = 3240

Front axle = 1450
Rear Axle = 1855

Axle-Sum = 3305.

Yes, yes, I understand about zero flexibility but was just wondering is such a thing was possible. I realise it only gives you 65kg increase of GVM if allowed so probably barely worth it, if it could be done. Just wondering.

[loanrangie]

Can't see how it would be possible since you can't upgrade the air springs or shocks.

[cripesamighty]

Maybe try these guys (link below). They provide suspension components for the up-armoured Land Rovers used by security and bodyguard type organisations, so should be able to give you an idea of what's possible at any rate.

Parts for Land Rover, Range Rover, Mini, Jaguar & Tesla (https://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/)

[Briar]

I wasn't thinking of upgrading any components. It's just that yesterday I came across some Youtube clips of people that upgraded their GVM to an "Axle-Sum" upgrade. There are also a few websites that discuss this. Whilst I'm aware that it has limited application for a D4 as you would only get 65kg upgraded GVM, because OEM GVM is only marginally below the axle sum.

With other vehicles such as Patrols and LC they have 200-300kg upgrade possible with an Axle Sum upgrade as in their cases the OEM GVM is well below the axle sum. I was just wondering if anyone had heard about it or done this on a D4? Because their is no actual vehicle modification taking place I was curious as to what might be required. Clearly if it's simply a brake test and getting a certifier to do a Mod Plate it might cost a few hundred dollars. Perhaps hardly worth it for only 65kg, but just wondering. I will enquire at at VSCCS Certifier out of interest. Just thought someone on here may have already done so.

[cripesamighty]

Gotcha - no mods! The protection detail vehicles are much heavier than standard so need upgraded components, which aren't cheap.

[Briar]

Gotcha - no mods! The protection detail vehicles are much heavier than standard so need upgraded components, which aren't cheap.

I spoke to an VCSSC Certifier today to find out what was the go. Nice guy and explained situation. Firstly, an Axle-Sum GVM upgrade is available to any vehicle, HOWEVER, there has to be some form of modification to the vehicle that can justify it. With a LC for instance all they might need is upgraded springs or shocks or add airbags to justify a axle-sum GVM increase. Obviously, with a LC if enough stuff is changed they might be able to get a GVM increase that also increases each axles load rating.

With the D4 the options of making any change to the suspension are limited to non-existent, so there is little that you could do to get an axle-sum GVM upgrade. There might be something that you could do but not worth it for only 65kg increase in GVM.

[cripesamighty]

FWIW, the armoured D4 version has a GVM of 4050kg straight from the factory. If it was affordable (and legal), I would love to do the upgrades to be able to carry the extra weight (~800kg), but leave out the ballistic protection of course. It might drive like a pig though...

Land Rover Introduces Powerful New Discovery 4 Armoured Vehicle | Land Rover Media Newsroom (https://media.landrover.com/news/2010/12/land-rover-introduces-powerful-new-discovery-4-armoured-vehicle)

[kelvo]

I spoke to an VCSSC Certifier today to find out what was the go. Nice guy and explained situation. Firstly, an Axle-Sum GVM upgrade is available to any vehicle, HOWEVER, there has to be some form of modification to the vehicle that can justify it. With a LC for instance all they might need is upgraded springs or shocks or add airbags to justify a axle-sum GVM increase. Obviously, with a LC if enough stuff is changed they might be able to get a GVM increase that also increases each axles load rating.

With the D4 the options of making any change to the suspension are limited to non-existent, so there is little that you could do to get an axle-sum GVM upgrade. There might be something that you could do but not worth it for only 65kg increase in GVM.
As the vehicle will be able to carry more weight, better brakes would be needed. So fit a set of updated rotors (Which makes sense when you need to replace the rotors as general maintenance), there is your modification to justify the axle-sum increase.

Bear in mind I am not qualified to backup my theory on this being a way to qualify for the increase.

[josh.huber]

As the vehicle will be able to carry more weight, better brakes would be needed. So fit a set of updated rotors (Which makes sense when you need to replace the rotors as general maintenance), there is your modification to justify the axle-sum increase.

Bear in mind I am not qualified to backup my theory on this being a way to qualify for the increase.

Great idea! Maybe add braided steel brake lines aswell? Cheap and easy.

I wonder if you could fit the armoured shock only inside the standard bag?

[Briar]

Next time I'm in Orange I will visit the certifier to find out what changes to brakes and or shocks (for example) might be enough to justify a GVM increase. I'm not sure how long the shocks last for but I'm sure after a couple of hundred thousand they might get spongy? I have no idea what exact modifications are done on suspension for the "Heavy Duty" D4, However, if all they have for the suspension is different shocks for example you might be able to get more than an axle-sum GVM upgrade. I'm not after anything ridiculous, but if you could get 200kg upgrade in GVM with simply upgrading a few components at regular maintenance time, it might be viable?

[josh.huber]

I went over the bridge at work and was 2940kg just me.. Unknown fuel. I'll happily pull the stock shocks out and put Bilstein units in and add braided lines for more weight rating. The brakes are already biggest in class. If we all get excited we will get more weight.

I accidentally bought a camper trailer so I won't be single car as much anymore.

The issue is the bullbar and winch is still up the side of the house and the kids and all their crap was at home. So I'll be over..

[DieselLSE]

I went over the bridge at work and was 2940kg just me.. Unknown fuel. I'll happily pull the stock shocks out and put Bilstein units in and add braided lines for more weight rating. The brakes are already biggest in class. If we all get excited we will get more weight.

I accidentally bought a camper trailer so I won't be single car as much anymore.

The issue is the bullbar and winch is still up the side of the house and the kids and all their crap was at home. So I'll be over..
Do you need the third row seats for your children? If not, removing them frees up about 45Kg and gives you storage space for small heavy items like winching gear, compressor etc.

[josh.huber]

Do you need the third row seats for your children? If not, removing them frees up about 45Kg and gives you storage space for small heavy items like winching gear, compressor etc.

Yeah they are coming out, but only to put a rear drawer setup, which will also add some weight. Not allot, but some.

I was suprised, it's not got allot of items on it.
Dual Battery with a hvt50, Rock sliders, apt front guard, tuffant steel wheels, cargo barrier, water tank (35l. Bladder, was empty), empty roof rack.

How do people get away with front and rear bars, aux tanks and 2 spares?

[scarry]

Brakes dont usually come into GVM upgrades,its springs,shocks,and axle strengthening for the heavier upgrades.

How the air struts can be upgraded,i dont know.Or even shocks as they are internal.
I presume an upgraded complete assembly would be needed,but i doubt they are available,although for the armoured vehicles there maybe upgraded parts.
I seem to remember Tombie looking into this a while ago.

[Tombie]

I wasn't thinking of upgrading any components. It's just that yesterday I came across some Youtube clips of people that upgraded their GVM to an "Axle-Sum" upgrade. There are also a few websites that discuss this. Whilst I'm aware that it has limited application for a D4 as you would only get 65kg upgraded GVM, because OEM GVM is only marginally below the axle sum.

With other vehicles such as Patrols and LC they have 200-300kg upgrade possible with an Axle Sum upgrade as in their cases the OEM GVM is well below the axle sum. I was just wondering if anyone had heard about it or done this on a D4? Because their is no actual vehicle modification taking place I was curious as to what might be required. Clearly if it's simply a brake test and getting a certifier to do a Mod Plate it might cost a few hundred dollars. Perhaps hardly worth it for only 65kg, but just wondering. I will enquire at at VSCCS Certifier out of interest. Just thought someone on here may have already done so.


Keep in mind...

The Land Crusher etc you need to take the entire tow hitch weight off the rear axle / GVM
The Disco has a limited amount of removal off GVM once it goes over 250kg (IIRC).

Easier to do some combo of the below (or others):
Removing unused 3rd row seats etc is an easier way to get capacity back.
Lighter winch (can be 10-15kg saved in this alone)
Lithium Aux batteries

[Tombie]

I went over the bridge at work and was 2940kg just me.. Unknown fuel. I'll happily pull the stock shocks out and put Bilstein units in and add braided lines for more weight rating. The brakes are already biggest in class. If we all get excited we will get more weight.

I accidentally bought a camper trailer so I won't be single car as much anymore.

The issue is the bullbar and winch is still up the side of the house and the kids and all their crap was at home. So I'll be over..

I went through this - and posted it years ago.

its literally as simple as getting a certified engineer to sign off on the fitment of the ballistic pack suspension.
I dont need it at the moment, so havent gone through with it.

[Tombie]

Yeah they are coming out, but only to put a rear drawer setup, which will also add some weight. Not allot, but some.

I was suprised, it's not got allot of items on it.
Dual Battery with a hvt50, Rock sliders, apt front guard, tuffant steel wheels, cargo barrier, water tank (35l. Bladder, was empty), empty roof rack.

How do people get away with front and rear bars, aux tanks and 2 spares?

My D4 has:

Full underbody armour
Aux tank
RWC (Single)
Bullbar and Winch
Roof rack
3 batteries

With me in it, full main tank, empty aux - it comes in at 3.08t

[Numb Thumbs]

I have a D5 5 seater SE. The GVM is 3050 kg, rear axle limit is 1775 kg. If it was a 7 seater, the GVM would be 3170 kg and the rear axle limit 1900 kg. Same axle and suspension, jut given a 120 kg higher limit.

Here in Victoria, my 5 seater can't be uprated to the 7 seater limits. Why????????? It can be done in Queensland, but not here.

Cheers
Numb Thumbs ;)

[Blue C]

Keep in mind...

The Land Crusher etc you need to take the entire tow hitch weight off the rear axle / GVM
The Disco has a limited amount of removal off GVM once it goes over 250kg (IIRC).

Easier to do some combo of the below (or others):
Removing unused 3rd row seats etc is an easier way to get capacity back.
Lighter winch (can be 10-15kg saved in this alone)
Lithium Aux batteries

Tombie feel free to correct me but I seem to remember that the handbook mentions that in European markets an extra 100kg can be added to the GVM (3240kg increased to 3340kg) but only if speed is limited to 100km/hr.
Whilst not helpful for us in Australia in legal terms, it suggests (to me at least) that the D4 is capable of handling the extra weight without suspension modifications- with the speed limitations as above.
Agree with all your suggestions to save weight. For your interest- I'm facing the same issue with my new D300 SE Defender which once kitted with bullbar, winch, roof rack, 2nd spare wheel, cargo barrier, sidesteps, luggage box etc + me and full tank + camper is right on GVM! That's without a drawer system or 2nd battery..........

[Wojer]

I have a D5 5 seater SE. The GVM is 3050 kg, rear axle limit is 1775 kg. If it was a 7 seater, the GVM would be 3170 kg and the rear axle limit 1900 kg. Same axle and suspension, jut given a 120 kg higher limit.

Here in Victoria, my 5 seater can't be uprated to the 7 seater limits. Why????????? It can be done in Queensland, but not here.

Cheers
Numb Thumbs ;)

There is an organisation named ARMA (Australian Recreational Motorists Association) running "Time to Align Campaign" so there is more agreed commonality between states in regulations.
Check Australian Recreational Motorists Association (https://www.arma.net.au/)

[Tombie]

My thoughts nowadays.

I was always a “draws, fridge slide & barrier” set up kind of guy.
Vehicles always fitted out fully.

Now it’s stackable Heavy duty crates, tie down straps and minimalist gear that must do multiple functions.

This has dramatically lowered my carried weight.

[Briar]

Still researching. Talking to my indie tomorrow.

I just noticed that the OEM rear strut air bag/ shock from Advanced Factors in the UK is listed as weighing 10kg. (Cost about $350 each).

However, the Arnott rear strut from the USA has a listed weight of 12.9kg. Are things just more dense in the US or do these Arnott units have some kind of heavier duty rating??? Just sent query to Arnott with questions on cost and shipping. Front Struts are 10kg (Arnott) vs 8.8kg (OEM).

[Tombie]

Packaging often included in the weights I find.
So depends how AF is weighing in.