Owner report on long BEV trip

[spudfan]

This is the experience of driving a BEV vehicle on a long journey.
Seems going from A-B will be a thing of the past. You might need to go via C, D, and E as well!
Running on Empty? A Report on a Long Distance BEV Trip | David Sprott's Blog (https://davidsprott.blog/2021/12/03/running-on-empty-a-report-on-a-long-distance-bev-trip/)

[3toes]

Have only driven the car on a test track however wonder what they were comparing it to in regard to handling and driveability as this is not an area would rate it even against other BEV cars

[spudfan]

I find it a trifle ironic that going "green" with your BEV entails making extra trips to fuel up, thereby using more fuel than you would if you could just go on your scheduled journey.
Years ago the mantra was-don't make unnecessary trips and don't carry unnecessary weight in your car. Well going out of your way to fill up and cart batteries around seems to go well against the grain of that mantra. Do the "green" brigade not see the irony in this?

[NavyDiver]

I find it a trifle ironic that going "green" with your BEV entails making extra trips to fuel up, thereby using more fuel than you would if you could just go on your scheduled journey.
Years ago the mantra was-don't make unnecessary trips and don't carry unnecessary weight in your car. Well going out of your way to fill up and cart batteries around seems to go well against the grain of that mantra. Do the "green" brigade not see the irony in this?

Yes and no. The cost is mostly time and charge places limitations. It is getting easier daily here in Victoria. Melb, port fairy return Chemo run Tuesday 569km ish return will take two stops at most even in my cheapy MG.

Noting the 2022 version has an option almost double my range making the whole trip possible IF i swap my battery[biggrin]

The COLD is a issue as is HOT as the range WLTP is a measure taken with NO air-conditioning on and average driving condition taken some where some place I never drive[thumbsupbig].
Just turning on and off my AC changes the range estimate by 30km. Clearly rubbish as if its really hot or really cold it would use more power than just ticking away.

It is a very "immature market" here in Australia. A little surprised to see it is in Ireland, Wales and England. Not really surprised to see some of the issues. CSS charging is probably the new standard yet older types also want a plug[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]

Several of the same issues occurred with Petrol 100 years ago. The more things change the more they stay the same[biggrin]

FYI The Ford Model T has an extensive history in the automotive market lasting for nearly 20 years. It is often called the ’Tin Lizzie’ and the ’Flivver’ and is credited with ’putting America on wheels"

As recorded the mileage was somewhere between 25 – 30 mpg (7.8-9.4 L / 100 KM)
Ford Model T could be a considered a high-risk automobile. The fuel tank was mounted just beneath the driver’s seat. A thin tin frame separated 10 gallons of gasoline and the driver

One of my Grandies drove a Model t from Perth to Melbourne. Fuel was dropped at points by camels to do it[biggrin][biggrin] Got to love people having a crack with new fangled 1908 technology before infrastructure like roads and Fuel stations existed in most places


http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/108691.jpg

More early adopters info from 100 plus ago (http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/108690.html?1254773783)

Crazy buggers not loving horses any more! Here's Skippy in a Model T !

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/108703.jpg

[spudfan]

Here is another article. The title speaks for irself
Poor range and high prices stopped me buying an electric car
Poor range and high prices stopped me buying an electric car (https://www.msn.com/en-ie/money/news/poor-range-and-high-prices-stopped-me-buying-an-electric-car/ar-AARtyHB?ocid=msedgntp)

[NavyDiver]

Here is another article. The title speaks for irself
Poor range and high prices stopped me buying an electric car
Poor range and high prices stopped me buying an electric car (https://www.msn.com/en-ie/money/news/poor-range-and-high-prices-stopped-me-buying-an-electric-car/ar-AARtyHB?ocid=msedgntp)

Range is a huge issue for Country drives here. Mine was brought for city bits and I was aware its not a logical way to Drive VIC to WA[biggrin]

Noting prices are reducing rapidly of course. Early adopters are nuts or over enthusiastic? The changes here or coming make it fun to watch now. A very nice Stihl whipper snipper I paid $600ish for two years ago is now $199[bawl][bawl][bawl] I know that as I am trying to sell the noisy thing to fund a electric one to go with my lawnmower batteries [bigwhistle] Used it yesterday - no fumes an soooo much quieter than the 4 stroke which is also for sale. The 2 stroke blower is off as well. The neighbors Sunday sleep in are much easier. Happily no range issues for the lawn mower. Electric blower vac is just a little weaker than the two stroke. I added a narrower nozzle and fixed that easily.
I can listen to music or news rather than ear muffs now[biggrin] My previously very ANTI ev son is still trying to pinch my car- Not my Disco [tonguewink]His concern was range as well. I could borrow my wife's much longer range EV and save an hour tomorrow. Note it was 30k more than my cheapy :)

My point about the Stihl is a little like stranded assets. My son wished he had not grabbed the ICE now and wants to sell it.

https://www.raconteur.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/FOI_P6_1.jpg

[Arapiles]

My point about the Stihl is a little like stranded assets. My son wished he had not grabbed the ICE now and wants to sell it.




Agreed, I don't think that the reality of stranded assets has percolated its way into the popular consciousness yet, but it's been an issue in project financing for at least the last 10 years.

And stranded assets are one of the two key reasons that no foreign or local bank would touch the Adani mine.

[PhilipA]

Will not early EVs with limited range also become stranded assets?

Nissan Leafs are worth very little, and not as much as their battery.

BTW I note that only 850 people in NSW have ordered EVs even with the NSW Government subsidy of $3000 on the first 25000 sold and stamp duty exemption.

So as EVs get better range (if the mainstream ones do) then will not the older ones become devalued?
Also there is nothing worth less in the States than a Tesla with a dud battery.
Regards PhilipA

[BradC]

Also there is nothing worth less in the States than a Tesla with a dud battery.

Not much different than a D4 with a snapped crankshaft then.

[scarry]

Crazy buggers not loving horses any more! Here's Skippy in a Model T !

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/108703.jpg

And what looks like a dead wedgie on the bonnet[bigsad]

[3toes]

Agreed, I don't think that the reality of stranded assets has percolated its way into the popular consciousness yet, but it's been an issue in project financing for at least the last 10 years.

And stranded assets are one of the two key reasons that no foreign or local bank would touch the Adani mine.

If the UK is an indicator it will take time for the EV to be accepted into the market by both the retailers and the consumers. As noted here the charging network and the time taken to charge are both an issue with the current product on the market. This is consistent no matter what brand you purchase. Probably over simplifying it but bigger range requires a bigger battery. Bigger battery requires a bigger vehicle. Bigger battery and vehicle means a lot more weight and so the range is not increased by the size increase in the battery

Then there is the value of the EV on the second hand market. This is a great unknown as the values seen at auction swing massively. This can make obtaining finance more difficult or expensive as the lender has to value the vehicle for their risk reporting. Have seen price differentials on one model of 15k in a month on similar used vehicles. Anything with 'high' mileage for a used EV which are doing a lot less miles than ICE is virtually unsaleable as people do not want to take what they see as a chance on a 'high' mileage vehicle. Also the demand for used EV is well out of kilter with supply making it a buyers market so they can afford to be very choosy in what they will even look at. Add in to this mix that it is an evolving technology and some EV vehicles are looking very old very quickly

[NavyDiver]

If the UK is an indicator it will take time for the EV to be accepted into the market by both the retailers and the consumers. As noted here the charging network and the time taken to charge are both an issue with the current product on the market. This is consistent no matter what brand you purchase. Probably over simplifying it but bigger range requires a bigger battery. Bigger battery requires a bigger vehicle. Bigger battery and vehicle means a lot more weight and so the range is not increased by the size increase in the battery

Then there is the value of the EV on the second hand market. This is a great unknown as the values seen at auction swing massively. This can make obtaining finance more difficult or expensive as the lender has to value the vehicle for their risk reporting. Have seen price differentials on one model of 15k in a month on similar used vehicles. Anything with 'high' mileage for a used EV which are doing a lot less miles than ICE is virtually unsaleable as people do not want to take what they see as a chance on a 'high' mileage vehicle. Also the demand for used EV is well out of kilter with supply making it a buyers market so they can afford to be very choosy in what they will even look at. Add in to this mix that it is an evolving technology and some EV vehicles are looking very old very quickly

Your right yet wrong. my silly one 42 kWh battery is being replaced in the same base car with a updated top and battery options of "The Standard Range (320km, up 57km on the current car) with 51kWh energy content, and the Long Range (440km) with 72kWh." All fit in the same frame of my one. It would be a bit heavier!! Noting very strong cross winds in the Western Districts (VIC) last night made my little one move about a lot more than I appreciate.

They all can charge at 70kWh IF only charging facilities exist [biggrin]

What is MUCH better is what is coming via solid state. GM is apparently jumping all in with that via buying out right a company that was called " Solid Energy Systems" and also "GM also holds almost 100 patents (49 granted and 45 pending) of its own in lithium-metal technology and it was an early investor in SES. The new SES partnership is expected to yield a pre-production version of the new lithium-metal EV battery by 2023." link (https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/06/solid-state-ev-battery-plot-thickens-as-gm-inks-deal-with-posco/amp/)

Always waiting[bawl] The much smaller, much lighter, much more energy dense and almost unlimited charge rates of Solid State batteries is in a significant race right now. Quatumscape (VW) made me a motza of money its its very Over Hyped listing. ( [B]NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE!!!) I sold all of it promise.

[Arapiles]

Will not early EVs with limited range also become stranded assets?

Nissan Leafs are worth very little, and not as much as their battery.

BTW I note that only 850 people in NSW have ordered EVs even with the NSW Government subsidy of $3000 on the first 25000 sold and stamp duty exemption.

So as EVs get better range (if the mainstream ones do) then will not the older ones become devalued?
Also there is nothing worth less in the States than a Tesla with a dud battery.
Regards PhilipA


No, the stranded assets we're talking about are carbon-heavy projects - like coal mines or coal-fired power stations - that cost billions of dollars to build and that will take, typically, 30 years to pay off or become profitable but by that time will be redundant. In point of fact, at present most coal mines are unbankable - which means, for those who don't do projects work for banks, that when the analysts do the numbers the projects in question would never be able to repay the money lent to built them. So, they don't get funded by the banks.

An old, used EV car is no more a stranded asset than an old Torana. Or is it your contention that ICE cars always maintain their value?

[bob10]

A Company called Moke International acquired the rights to the Mini Moke in 2015, they have an EV version of the Mini Moke. The new electric model will sell in the UK for Stg Pounds 29,150 or about A $53, 800. If you think that is crook, how about the Electric E Type. Yours for Stg Pounds 300,000 or A $ 550,000.


From the Historic vehicles website.

Why Australian heavy trucks are the way they are - Historic Vehicles (https://historicvehicles.com.au/working-vehicles/why-australian-heavy-trucks-are-the-way-they-are/)

[NavyDiver]

A Company called Moke International acquired the rights to the Mini Moke in 2015, they have an EV version of the Mini Moke. The new electric model will sell in the UK for Stg Pounds 29,150 or about A $53, 800. If you think that is crook, how about the Electric E Type. Yours for Stg Pounds 300,000 or A $ 550,000.


From the Historic vehicles website.

Why Australian heavy trucks are the way they are - Historic Vehicles (https://historicvehicles.com.au/working-vehicles/why-australian-heavy-trucks-are-the-way-they-are/)


Long range dreaming for me alas. I did make it thankfully

Cut and paste from a almost whinge from me [thumbsupbig]

Been running Melb- Port Fairy weekly in my MG. Chemo Express for my mum.

Car is being very consistent. I can just make 210km with hvac off. Yesterday the Fully charge from Port Fairy
Port Fairy
Head north on Albert St/Princes Hwy/A1 towards Regent St
Continue to follow Princes Hwy/A1
17.4 km
Turn left onto Southern Cross Rd/C177
1.4 km
Turn right onto Tower Hill Rd
5.6 km
Turn right onto Caramut Rd/C174
49 m
Turn left at the 1st cross street onto Bridge Rd
4.0 km
Turn left onto Hopkins Hwy/B120
14.6 km
Turn right onto Framlingham Rd
5.3 km
Continue onto High St
850 m
Turn left onto Ellerslie-Panmure Rd
1.9 km
Continue straight onto Terang-Framlingham Rd
2.6 km
Turn right to stay on Terang-Framlingham Rd
14.5 km
Turn right to stay on Terang-Framlingham Rd
1.3 km
Continue onto Baynes St
900 m
At the roundabout, continue straight to stay on Baynes St
850 m
Turn right onto Terang-Mortlake Rd/C156
66 m
Turn left onto High St/Princes Hwy/A1
Continue to follow Princes Hwy/A1
71.0 km
At the roundabout, take the 2nd exit onto M1
8.6 km
Turn right onto Warncoort-Birregurra Rd/C152
Continue to follow C152
8.8 km
Turn left onto Cape Otway Rd
30.1 km
Turn right onto Layard Rd
2.6 km
Turn left onto Nobles Rd
400 m
Turn right onto Larcombes Rd
2.6 km
Turn right onto Hendy Main Rd/C135
11.1 km
At the roundabout, take the 2nd exit onto Coombes Rd
4.7 km
Turn right onto Surf Coast Hwy/B100
2.1 km
Torquay, Victoria 3228

The car was 0% on arrival in Torquay. I only charge to 80% to get me home to Melbourne Charge fox invoice "Charging for 42mins, 34.47kWh @ $0.40/kWh"
The night before the car showed 100% but was at 0% at Warrnambool 28 km short of Port Fairy. Lights would be on High Beam as needed for a night drive at 100kph. That's about 180km only! Charge fox invoice "Charging for 42mins, 34.47kWh @ $0.40/kWh" It was not 0% when I started that charge!

New High rate charges option make it much easier now. Monday Nights run needed an hour on a 7kWh charge in Warrnambool to get me the last bit! Frustrating hour at 1am.

The short hop from Melb to Torquay or Ballarat super chargers is making it just possible to leave the Landrover at home. I think/assume the The range is always "an extrapolated average. That means that the computer's range prediction is derived from translating the remaining battery charge into kilometres, based on the remaining charge as a percentage of the total battery capacity and how long the vehicle has travelled so far on that charge."https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/d ... ge-119044/ (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/advice-how-do-electric-vehicles-calculate-range-119044/)

The Algorithms used by MG are clearly not allowing for long 100kph trips. I suspect its 60 ish. To make the close to Zero monday night run I did the last 80km at 80kph. It clearly reduced the rate of range loss the car showed compared to the distance to the destination shown.

Not grumpy about it but need to be aware of it. I met a cool Tesla drive who was waiting for the Warrnambool charger the week before had driven from Newcastle NSW. Loved the Efficency you are getting. If it was possible to see that on 100kph for 200+ km we might get 330 ish range http://forums.aeva.asn.au/images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif

Have a great Xmas all

[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin] It worked JUST [thumbsupbig]

[jonesfam]

Some things I have noticed with my limited investigations into BEV cars.
1. They all seem very small.
2. They would not get me from Doomadgee to Cloncurry, the couple that would leave no safety margin.
3. They seem bloody expensive.
4. They weigh as much as a mid/large 4WD.
5. None tell you the range in 40 odd degree heat, A/C blasting, towing 2 ton trailer, SWMBO & 5 kids on board.
6. How much does the battery degrade?
7. Why should I stop for an hour to recharge between D & C when I can drive straight through on half a tank in the Prado or 3/4 in the D2?

I think BEV cars have a way to go before they are going to be useful anywhere but the East Coast.
Jonesfam
PS And they all look useless off the tarmac!

[DoubleChevron]

The bigger issue I see ... is throw a trailer or caravan on an electric car and see what happens .....

Can Electric Cars Tow? We Max Out A Tesla Model X & Kill The Battery to Find Out! Adventure X Ep.1 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhX3BmhJXc8)


I've got nothing against electric cars.... They just interest me as much as a modern plastic bit of junk I could buy now :clown: