Made in U.K vs made in China

[DazzaTD5]

Two Defender chassis components...
The one made in the U.K I smashed at the surface with a sharp scraper and it barely made a mark.
The other, well the paint just peeled off what looks like mill scale.

And yes paint needs removing before welding onto the chassis, but it just shows a standard some manufacturers have over others.

[trout1105]

What is the difference in price between the two parts?

[DazzaTD5]

What is the difference in price between the two parts?

In this instance, its laughable as they were the same price, round $80.

But yes there is only one single reason why manufacturers get stuff made in china. Regardless of what Co or people say, they are taking advantage of the exploited low paid average Chinese worker, who is no different from you or me.

[Slunnie]

In this instance, its laughable as they were the same price, round $80.

But yes there is only one single reason why manufacturers get stuff made in china. Regardless of what Co or people say, they are taking advantage of the exploited low paid average Chinese worker, who is no different from you or me.

The other sad thing, is that in china they make it exactly as they are told and to the letter. It's not like they don't have the ability to make it like the UK made one. Someone is cashing in on that part.

[W&KO]

The other sad thing, is that in china they make it exactly as they are told and to the letter. It's not like they don't have the ability to make it like the UK made one. Someone is cashing in on that part.

Agree….. They manufacture to the customer price and spec

I visited a high end factory in China the other year. These guys manufacture for Rolls Royce Marine and GE……

[trout1105]

IF Chinas military hardware is of the same quality then Australia has nothing to fear then[bigwhistle]

[DazzaTD5]

The other sad thing, is that in china they make it exactly as they are told and to the letter. It's not like they don't have the ability to make it like the UK made one. Someone is cashing in on that part.

I have no doubt there is a lot of what you say going on but there is also a lot of the manufacturers not asking or setting a standard so you then get a sub standard component.

There is also components simply not meeting a standard regardless of what is being ordered.
A while back I vaguely read something about sheeting (i assume alloy for ship hulls) for the Australian Navy that was made in China, when it got here it wasn't upto spec and was rejected, I had thought it was Astral Shipping. Someone more in the know would be able to shed light on that one.

I order prolly 3 or 4 times a week from the U.K so it does give me a better than average idea at who makes genuine, actual OEM and aftermarket.
A lot of FORD parts (so genuine Land Rover) and there for OEM are made in China and bluntly its hit and miss to the quality. So there are genuine Land Rover parts I simply dont buy as I know where they are made. So I look for aftermarket that is made in the U.K

I cant remember nor can I give an example of a part made in the U.K that was poor or sub standard, except for a whole Land Rover [tonguewink][tonguewink]

Thailand is another place that seems to take great pride in there auto manufacturing, while some rate Terrafirma suspension low, I've only ever had a few failed shocks. A lot of it is made in Thailand and more seems to be being made there.

[workingonit]

IF Chinas military hardware is of the same quality then Australia has nothing to fear then[bigwhistle]

In regard to tanks, I believe Stalin preferred quantity over quality (also a bigger cannon and lots of expendable men) when facing off against the German Tiger. Although ours is the tech era is there any real difference between then and now?


Two Defender chassis components...
The one made in the U.K I smashed at the surface with a sharp scraper and it barely made a mark.
The other, well the paint just peeled off what looks like mill scale.

And yes paint needs removing before welding onto the chassis, but it just shows a standard some manufacturers have over others.

They knew you were going to weld it and saved you a lot of time? [thumbsupbig]

[DazzaTD5]

IF Chinas military hardware is of the same quality then Australia has nothing to fear then[bigwhistle]

There was a court case a while back of excessive structural corrosion on a LDV 4x4, maybe the same place makes their chassis parts too [wink11]

[DazzaTD5]

They knew you were going to weld it and saved you a lot of time? [thumbsupbig]

Well no, I have to remove the mill scale before painting. the other bracket just needs the paint removed where its being welded.
If i had the time I would have dropped it at the sand blasters who do my powder coating work.

[workingonit]

Well no, I have to remove the mill scale before painting. the other bracket just needs the paint removed where its being welded.
If i had the time I would have dropped it at the sand blasters who do my powder coating work.

Curious. Understand grinding top coat back pre-welding. Is powder coat more tolerant of heat creep and spatter than regular paint? I'm assuming powder coat as in baked on finish.

[DazzaTD5]

Curious. Understand grinding top coat back pre-welding. Is powder coat more tolerant of heat creep and spatter than regular paint? I'm assuming powder coat as in baked on finish.

I wouldn't of got it powder coated, only sand blasted to remove the mill scale, I will do it by hand, will just take me longer.

[V8Ian]

Agree….. They manufacture to the customer price and spec

And the customer needs to provide their own QA, at point of manufacturer, to ensure quality/specification as per agreement, is met.
Payment has to be made before dispatch and no claims are recognised post payment.
Quality/specifications will be reduced if the factory can get away with such.

[trout1105]

In regard to tanks, I believe Stalin preferred quantity over quality (also a bigger cannon and lots of expendable men) when facing off against the German Tiger. Although ours is the tech era is there any real difference between then and now?



They knew you were going to weld it and saved you a lot of time? [thumbsupbig]

The lifespan of a battle tank during a conflict is Very short these days , Have a look at what the yanks did to Hussains armour [bigwhistle]

[350RRC]

And the customer needs to provide their own QA, at point of manufacturer, to ensure quality/specification as per agreement, is met.
Payment has to be made before dispatch and no claims are recognised post payment.
Quality/specifications will be reduced if the factory can get away with such.

i know a guy who got a commercial cray boat built in China, to commercial survey specs.

This involved getting a surveyor to sign off at many stages of construction and it was impossible to get one there every time one stage finished and another commenced.

Boat was finished, money (had to be) paid and this guy and a mate brought it back to Oz, which was a whole other adventure. No insurance and plenty of issues.

To get it in survey here involved cutting holes all over the place, etc.

He laughs about the stupidity of it now.

His latest boat was self built with some help from a guy who could also weld aly. Have done research work on it over the last couple of years and it's brilliant in all conditions.

[Vin Rouge]

Taking a slightly different approach - given that China is doing it's best to destroy Australia and the western world, and their behaviour over importing Australian goods, shouldn't we return the compliment and if it's got 'Made in China' on it, buy it manufactured somewhere else?

[DazzaTD5]

Taking a slightly different approach - given that China is doing it's best to destroy Australia and the western world, and their behaviour over importing Australian goods, shouldn't we return the compliment and if it's got 'Made in China' on it, buy it manufactured somewhere else?

Absolutely, I do this when shopping for groceries and ordering parts.
It's not "china" per say but the CCP. As I've stated many times, the average working class joe china is no different to you or me. Except their freedom and rights are lower, even by Australian standards.

Not that I want to go down that path in this thread, it might be considered political (unlike the winter Olympics right?)

[W&KO]

And the customer needs to provide their own QA, at point of manufacturer, to ensure quality/specification as per agreement, is met.
Payment has to be made before dispatch and no claims are recognised post payment.
Quality/specifications will be reduced if the factory can get away with such.

Let’s not paint all factories with the same brush with these generalizations.…..if you are dealing direct with factory and are having these issues than I guess it’s all about the detail in the contract you have in place.

We don’t have anybody based in China doing QA…..Rolls Royce and GE certainly didn’t have anybody on-site when I was there.

Generally a % is paid prior to despatch however there is generally a % withheld until we take delivery. This is standard no matter which country you purchase from including manufactures in Aus.

We’ve had no issues with warranty, not that we have had any as they quality is spot on. Had one minor issue and that was dealt with straight away locally in Aus. We have full confidence they will stand buy their product.

no issues with the factory we use trying to reduce quality…..again it’s the relationship that is built and contact that is in place.

After my trip to China I returned with a totally different view on how it works over their……

One thing that blew me away was there customer service….. I identified an improvement to the final product during the factory tour, within minutes all the right people were around the piece of equipment to discuss the changes……..by the time we had finished lunch in the owners private dining room on site drawings were waiting for us to sign off…..in Aus no chance of having it all sorted in 2 hours.

I was also impressed with they way they looked after their factory workers……they provided accommodation onsite and 3 meals a day. Sure only a small factory l, from memory 500,000m2 under roof and a few hundred employees.

[RANDLOVER]

..............
I was also impressed with they way they looked after their factory workers……they provided accommodation onsite and 3 meals a day. Sure only a small factory l, from memory 500,000m2 under roof and a few hundred employees.

Most of those worker's will be migrants from the countryside and if they or the factory can't or won't pay for their children's schooling in the city, they have to stay back at farm so to speak, this has lead to about 60 million "orphans" left (abandoned) to be cared for by grandparents, elder siblings, etc. An NGO said about a third end up with psychological, drug, crime problems, IIRC. There is lot more to a "supply chain" than just the goods that come out of a factory!

Left-behind children in China - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-behind_children_in_China)

China's migrant worker crisis and the children that are left behind (sbs.com.au) (https://www.sbs.com.au/news/dateline/china-s-migrant-worker-crisis-and-the-children-that-are-left-behind)

[Gav 110]

I was also impressed with they way they looked after their factory workers……they provided accommodation onsite and 3 meals a day. Sure only a small factory l, from memory 500,000m2 under roof and a few hundred employees.

I have a couple of customers who are Chinese, they have businesses where I do work at, and only employ Chinese employees.
I suspect 457 visas as there is not a lot of English spoken
The ones that do speak (very much broken) English have told me they get very well looked after, meals, accommodation and the likes, all deducted from their pay.
Which is of course minimum Australian wage.
If they don’t want “package” there is always a free trip back to China

I don’t get involved in the running of their business
I get called out to do work, I do it, I get paid.
Good customers, not so good employers [emoji853]

I suspect the company’s in China who provide a meal and accommodation package also deduct a “fair” amount out of the pay packet for the privilege of having a job[emoji1531][emoji1531]

[350RRC]

I have a couple of customers who are Chinese, they have businesses where I do work at, and only employ Chinese employees.
I suspect 457 visas as there is not a lot of English spoken
The ones that do speak (very much broken) English have told me they get very well looked after, meals, accommodation and the likes, all deducted from their pay.
Which is of course minimum Australian wage.
If they don’t want “package” there is always a free trip back to China

I don’t get involved in the running of their business
I get called out to do work, I do it, I get paid.
Good customers, not so good employers [emoji853]

I suspect the company’s in China who provide a meal and accommodation package also deduct a “fair” amount out of the pay packet for the privilege of having a job[emoji1531][emoji1531]

So they use labour hire companies like some farmers and other enterprises in oz?

[Gav 110]

So they use labour hire companies like some farmers and other enterprises in oz?

Like I said, I don’t get into the running of their business
All I get is a bit a broken English about the employees situation
Ask no questions, get told no lies, keep the customers happy, keep my family fed[emoji1531]

[RANDLOVER]

So they use labour hire companies like some farmers and other enterprises in oz?

Their are labour hires companies and then their are "labour hire" companies, the ABC's Landline did a story on the subject.

[BradC]

I cant remember nor can I give an example of a part made in the U.K that was poor or sub standard, except for a whole Land Rover [tonguewink][tonguewink]

That's more an assembly level issue rather than component.

Always reminds me of Fawlty Towers : "Ah, yes, Mr. O'Reilly. Well, it's quite simple. When I asked you to build me a wall, I was rather thinking that instead of just dumping the bricks down in a pile, you might find time to cement them together one on top of the other in the traditional fashion."

I often feel like the D3 I have is a loosely assembled pile of parts which works more by accident than design and if someone had just managed to ensure they were arranged appropriately things would be at bit more deterministic. Then again, that sums up most British cars I've ever worked on.

[NavyDiver]

A WA company I love got a high pressure reactor "Quality assurance and non-destructive testing activities carried out over the last 48 hours have yesterday confirmed the presence of the manufacturing flaw and identified further areas of concern. As a result of the flaw identified, the reactor shell has been deemed unsuitable and will require remedial manufacturing actions before it can be certified and accepted for dispatch"

Not sure yet if the payment is partly or fully dependent on delivery to spec, I assume the Chinese company is working to ensure thier own reputation is not trashed by failing to deliver.

My "quirky" EV is chinese build MG. The poms lost that one! Happily I haven't rattled it to bits yet[thumbsupbig] The gear box did fall out of a Russian ute I had for a bit That said , I replaced a gear box in my prior D3 and a engine in the current one.

I recall a very early 1980s Taiwan made glass lined thermos which was not a good idea for a school kids lunch! Now almost all high tech computer chips are from Taiwan[biggrin] [B]Ying and Yang I guess.

[Vin Rouge]

Absolutely, I do this when shopping for groceries and ordering parts.
It's not "china" per say but the CCP. As I've stated many times, the average working class joe china is no different to you or me. Except their freedom and rights are lower, even by Australian standards.

Not that I want to go down that path in this thread, it might be considered political (unlike the winter Olympics right?)


Completely agree. Sadly, the average Joe has little say under the CCP regime.

[1950landy]

A WA company I love got a high pressure reactor "Quality assurance and non-destructive testing activities carried out over the last 48 hours have yesterday confirmed the presence of the manufacturing flaw and identified further areas of concern. As a result of the flaw identified, the reactor shell has been deemed unsuitable and will require remedial manufacturing actions before it can be certified and accepted for dispatch"

Not sure yet if the payment is partly or fully dependent on delivery to spec, I assume the Chinese company is working to ensure thier own reputation is not trashed by failing to deliver.

My "quirky" EV is chinese build MG. The poms lost that one! Happily I haven't rattled it to bits yet[thumbsupbig] The gear box did fall out of a Russian ute I had for a bit That said , I replaced a gear box in my prior D3 and a engine in the current one.

I recall a very early 1980s Taiwan made glass lined thermos which was not a good idea for a school kids lunch! Now almost all high tech computer chips are from Taiwan[biggrin] [B]Ying and Yang I guess.

Few years ago a Brisbane based RHS & SHS steel manufacturing company when setting up to Galv there own product contracted a Canadian Co to supply the plant , when it arrived it was poorly made with welds & parts missing . The Canadian Co contacted out company to doo the repairs , there was about 1 months work in it . We never got paid , we looked into taking them to court But were advised that it would cost us more to try to win the case than what we were owed. Just one of the risks dealing with O/S companies. We also had a client who manufactured transformers for the power industry who started getting the casing fabricated O/S , on arrival were found to have inferior wilds , so we got the job to gouge out the defective welds & repair , We did get paid for this work.

[DazzaTD5]

Let’s not paint all factories with the same brush with these generalizations.…..if you are dealing direct with factory and are having these issues than I guess it’s all about the detail in the contract you have in place.

We don’t have anybody based in China doing QA…..Rolls Royce and GE certainly didn’t have anybody on-site when I was there.

Generally a % is paid prior to despatch however there is generally a % withheld until we take delivery. This is standard no matter which country you purchase from including manufactures in Aus.

We’ve had no issues with warranty, not that we have had any as they quality is spot on. Had one minor issue and that was dealt with straight away locally in Aus. We have full confidence they will stand buy their product.

no issues with the factory we use trying to reduce quality…..again it’s the relationship that is built and contact that is in place.

After my trip to China I returned with a totally different view on how it works over their……

One thing that blew me away was there customer service….. I identified an improvement to the final product during the factory tour, within minutes all the right people were around the piece of equipment to discuss the changes……..by the time we had finished lunch in the owners private dining room on site drawings were waiting for us to sign off…..in Aus no chance of having it all sorted in 2 hours.

I was also impressed with they way they looked after their factory workers……they provided accommodation onsite and 3 meals a day. Sure only a small factory l, from memory 500,000m2 under roof and a few hundred employees.

*The fact are not generalizations, if you research this outside of your dealing with one factory in China you will see this.
*It is simply western businesses, Companies that take advantage of the situation with regards to the controlling Government in China to maximize their own profits.
*Why does the company you represent or work for get product/s made in China?
*I'm sure working and living conditions on display look very rosy for the western visitor to the factory, the same goes for the customer support.
*Doesnt look so good for the rural population or other ethnic minorities in China though.

[DazzaTD5]

Most of those worker's will be migrants from the countryside and if they or the factory can't or won't pay for their children's schooling in the city, they have to stay back at farm so to speak, this has lead to about 60 million "orphans" left (abandoned) to be cared for by grandparents, elder siblings, etc. An NGO said about a third end up with psychological, drug, crime problems, IIRC. There is lot more to a "supply chain" than just the goods that come out of a factory!

Left-behind children in China - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-behind_children_in_China)

China's migrant worker crisis and the children that are left behind (sbs.com.au) (https://www.sbs.com.au/news/dateline/china-s-migrant-worker-crisis-and-the-children-that-are-left-behind)

I wanted to reaffirm this, as just like with EV manufacturing the human cost is the most important yet rarely ever talked about.

[DazzaTD5]

That's more an assembly level issue rather than component.

Always reminds me of Fawlty Towers : "Ah, yes, Mr. O'Reilly. Well, it's quite simple. When I asked you to build me a wall, I was rather thinking that instead of just dumping the bricks down in a pile, you might find time to cement them together one on top of the other in the traditional fashion."

I often feel like the D3 I have is a loosely assembled pile of parts which works more by accident than design and if someone had just managed to ensure they were arranged appropriately things would be at bit more deterministic. Then again, that sums up most British cars I've ever worked on.

Thats about the funniest analogy I've read in a long time. "loosely assembled pile of parts" [tonguewink]

[W&KO]

*The fact are not generalizations, if you research this outside of your dealing with one factory in China you will see this.
*It is simply western businesses, Companies that take advantage of the situation with regards to the controlling Government in China to maximize their own profits.
*Why does the company you represent or work for get product/s made in China?
*I'm sure working and living conditions on display look very rosy for the western visitor to the factory, the same goes for the customer support.
*Doesnt look so good for the rural population or other ethnic minorities in China though.

I also forgot to mention that the company o work for also has a very robust Country of Origin, Modern Slavery policy which has to be registered with the federal government to to size of company, turn over I think.

Why purchase from China…why not.

We started with a Melbourne based company, there is only one manufacturer in Aus making the equipment from scratch.……the price nearly doubled in price and they were not willing to work with us on changes to the design that better suited out application.

Plus…….we have to stay competitive in the market, i.e. against the the raw materials that are imported.

I fully suspect everybody jumping on tie China bandwagon is pro anal y typing on a device that has China made components.

[trout1105]

Its pretty "rich" of the Australian government bang on about slave labour when they are actively importing overseas labour to do the ****ty low paid work on farms.[bigwhistle]

[jon3950]

Its pretty "rich" of the Australian government bang on about slave labour when they are actively importing overseas labour to do the ****ty low paid work on farms.[bigwhistle]

Agreed, plus the fact that everyone complains about things made in China, but most are not prepared to pay the higher costs of locally made goods.

One shouldn’t under-estimate the quality available from Chinese manufacturers, but again its just that people aren’t prepared to pay for it.

Cheers,
Jon

[superquag]

Thats about the funniest analogy I've read in a long time. "loosely assembled pile of parts"
[tonguewink]

Isn't this the way all Helicopters begin life ?

[scarry]

I often feel like the D3 I have is a loosely assembled pile of parts which works more by accident than design and if someone had just managed to ensure they were arranged appropriately things would be at bit more deterministic. Then again, that sums up most British cars I've ever worked on.

:Rolling:

I am just glad there are some vehicle manufacturers that do a slightly better job......[bighmmm][biggrin]

[DazzaTD5]

I also forgot to mention that the company o work for also has a very robust Country of Origin, Modern Slavery policy which has to be registered with the federal government to to size of company, turn over I think.

Why purchase from China…why not.

We started with a Melbourne based company, there is only one manufacturer in Aus making the equipment from scratch.……the price nearly doubled in price and they were not willing to work with us on changes to the design that better suited out application.

Plus…….we have to stay competitive in the market, i.e. against the the raw materials that are imported.

I fully suspect everybody jumping on tie China bandwagon is pro anal y typing on a device that has China made components.

Western companies have a long history of "robust" vigorous anti slavery policies that are based on looking the other way, asking no questions or out right opposing any bills/laws that make them accountable with regards to their supply chain.

Why not? human rights issues against minority and religious groups, against the average chinese worker both their living and working conditions. Their really is a lot to be educated in with regards to how the masses are forced to live in China.

So double the cost of manufacture is the price on human misery and suffering? It must be a very specialised product if only one manufacturer is Australia is able to make it. But then again we dont even make cars in Australia.

If by "china bandwagon" you mean anti-china bandwagon? No, this is not the case but often these conversations turn to "oh your anti-china, your racist" not the case at all, anti-china Government, yes. anti ccp yes due to the oppression against the chinese people.

It seems perfectly acceptable to trade on human suffering and for trade to be weaponised.
Ya just dont see these sorts of actions coming from the U.K, hence why I am a big supporter of the upcoming free trade agreement with the U.K

[DazzaTD5]

Agreed, plus the fact that everyone complains about things made in China, but most are not prepared to pay the higher costs of locally made goods.

One shouldn’t under-estimate the quality available from Chinese manufacturers, but again its just that people aren’t prepared to pay for it.

Cheers,
Jon

Yes people do complain about made in china but what is also true, the average consumer will complain about some function of their phone not working, doesnt last long and is so expensive while having a latte with friends. Their life is so hard.

There is also apathy in consumers and retailers, walk into a retailer and ask for a particular product and say preferred one not made in china and most reply with "its all made in china mate" yet my local plumbing supplier when asked was more than willing to go through what products they had and where they were made. Ended up with a replacement tap for the kitchen that was made in Italy, was one of their best selling products and has a 10 year warranty (oh and wasnt double the price of a chinese made one from Bunnings).

I'm looking to air con my workshop, I'm expecting to pay more, prolly double for a U.S or Australian made one.
Installing another hoist and again looking at U.S or Germany for a far better quality product and also to replace my current hoist that while from a Aussie company is made in china and its a sub standard product.

[4bee]

Yes people do complain about made in china but what is also true, the average consumer will complain about some function of their phone not working, doesnt last long and is so expensive while having a latte with friends. Their life is so hard.

There is also apathy in consumers and retailers, walk into a retailer and ask for a particular product and say preferred one not made in china and most reply with "its all made in china mate" yet my local plumbing supplier when asked was more than willing to go through what products they had and where they were made. Ended up with a replacement tap for the kitchen that was made in Italy, was one of their best selling products and has a 10 year warranty (oh and wasnt double the price of a chinese made one from Bunnings).

I'm looking to air con my workshop, I'm expecting to pay more, prolly double for a U.S or Australian made one.
Installing another hoist and again looking at U.S or Germany for a far better quality product and also to replace my current hoist that while from a Aussie company is made in china and its a sub standard product.


Re Flaking paint.

Seems there is nothing new in the whole wide world. I had a Pressed Metal assembled 109" to restore a few years ago(25327731 D) Chassis Paint & seat rails were black. The paint lifted off as soon as you looked at them No Prep whatsoever, paint straight onto Mill Scale. [bigsad] LR were guilty of this crap back in '67-ish. It doesn't mean that aussie assembled vehicles should drop LR's standard & spec but it seems they did.

Edit. Should have said they may in fact have been LR supplied parts out of a packing case with all the other knockdown bits not necessarily PM parts.

[4bee]

Isn't this the way all Helicopters begin life ?

Some even finish their life as such after they have dropped out of the sky for one reason or another.

Thats about the funniest analogy I've read in a long time. "loosely assembled pile of parts"

[W&KO]

Western companies have a long history of "robust" vigorous anti slavery policies that are based on looking the other way, asking no questions or out right opposing any bills/laws that make them accountable with regards to their supply chain.

Why not? human rights issues against minority and religious groups, against the average chinese worker both their living and working conditions. Their really is a lot to be educated in with regards to how the masses are forced to live in China.

So double the cost of manufacture is the price on human misery and suffering? It must be a very specialised product if only one manufacturer is Australia is able to make it. But then again we dont even make cars in Australia.

If by "china bandwagon" you mean anti-china bandwagon? No, this is not the case but often these conversations turn to "oh your anti-china, your racist" not the case at all, anti-china Government, yes. anti ccp yes due to the oppression against the chinese people.

It seems perfectly acceptable to trade on human suffering and for trade to be weaponised.
Ya just dont see these sorts of actions coming from the U.K, hence why I am a big supporter of the upcoming free trade agreement with the U.K

I think I’ll give up, you tar every Chinese company with the same brush and now every western company…….

Yet you didn’t return your Chinese made part!!!!! Based on your comments are you not part of the problem given you claim no company globally is doing the right thing??

An example……A few months ago we ordered steel through a WA company. Now this steel isn’t stock anywhere in the world, we have to book a manufacture slot with a mill, it’s made to order. We were given the option of two mills, I believe both mills were investigated under our modern slavery policy based on origin. Both got the tick in the box and we went with the mill with best lead time……but I guess you’ll still question companies at least having a go.

[4bee]

I think I’ll give up, you tar every Chinese company with the same brush and now every western company…….

Yet you didn’t return your Chinese made part!!!!! Based on your comments are you not part of the problem given you claim no company globally is doing the right thing??

An example……A few months ago we ordered steel through a WA company. Now this steel isn’t stock anywhere in the world, we have to book a manufacture slot with a mill, it’s made to order. We were given the option of two mills, I believe both mills were investigated under our modern slavery policy based on origin. Both got the tick in the box and we went with the mill with best lead time……but I guess you’ll still question companies at least having a go.


W&KO May I ask what your business is & what it makes?


Just my curiosity from you posts over a couple of years & for no other reason.

Thanks

[Tins]

There's Chinese and there's Chinese. I've had bulk store Chinese stuff that's utter garbage, and then I have a bunch of  stuff that is brilliant. Typing this on a nearly 12 YO iMac. I bought myself a Christmas present. It is a toolchest from Milwaukee, complete with a bunch of tools, both hand and powered. Some of the hand tools are made in Germany, while most are from China. The quality is very high and completely identical. It comes down to QC demands from the buyer. Milwaukee's QC demands are high.

Mike on Britrest discusses this often, as he buys LR bits all the time.

[350RRC]

There's Chinese and there's Chinese. I've had bulk store Chinese stuff that's utter garbage, and then I have a bunch of  stuff that is brilliant. Typing this on a nearly 12 YO iMac. I bought myself a Christmas present. It is a toolchest from Milwaukee, complete with a bunch of tools, both hand and powered. Some of the hand tools are made in Germany, while most are from China. The quality is very high and completely identical. It comes down to QC demands from the buyer. Milwaukee's QC demands are high.

Mike on Britrest discusses this often, as he buys LR bits all the time.

I have had German made AEG corded tools which were great, had a German made AEG battery drill where everything failed........batteries, charger and drill motor.

Milwaukee and AEG are both under the TTI group now, who lead the world in brushless motor tech.

I have all AEG 18 v brushless stuff and it gets a flogging and nothing has failed, made in China. 3 years warranty on batteries and 6 years on skins.

DL

[Tins]

I have had German made AEG corded tools which were great, had a German made AEG battery drill where everything failed........batteries, charger and drill motor.

Milwaukee and AEG are both under the TTI group now, who lead the world in brushless motor tech.

I have all AEG 18 v brushless stuff and it gets a flogging and nothing has failed, made in China. 3 years warranty on batteries and 6 years on skins.

DL
I have a shedload of MW stuff. First thing I bought was an M18 Fuel 3/4 drive rattler. I got it because no other power on earth would undo the crank pulley bolt on my TDi. Cost a bleeding fortune but it’s possibly the best tool I own. Well, apart from the other MW stuff. But that tool has a Disco wheel off in seconds. I rolled a tyre off a rim on the D1 in a bad angled situation had it on the high lift. No way I want to swing on a breaker bar then. As Karl Malden used to say, “don’t leave home without it”. I know other brands exist, but that tool has me invested in the ecosystem. I can’t see that I’ll ever regret it. They innovate constantly but remain backwards compatible. Awesome stuff.

Point is, China can make great gear. Some even go viral.

[Slunnie]

I have had German made AEG corded tools which were great, had a German made AEG battery drill where everything failed........batteries, charger and drill motor.

Milwaukee and AEG are both under the TTI group now, who lead the world in brushless motor tech.

I have all AEG 18 v brushless stuff and it gets a flogging and nothing has failed, made in China. 3 years warranty on batteries and 6 years on skins.

DL
We found the same with a fleet of cordless drills from Maktech. The shop told us that they wouldn’t last, they’re Chinese made plastic budget Makita, but they lasted… Same with their abrasive cutoff saw which is still going!

[Tins]

We found the same with a fleet of cordless drills from Maktech. The shop told us that they wouldn’t last, they’re Chinese made plastic budget Makita, but they lasted… Same with their abrasive cutoff saw which is still going!

For a time there recently, unless you could find Japanese, ALL Makita was budget. These days though, like Nikon with its incredible Z9*, Mak seems to be getting back on track. They were once my go to. They won't get me back due to the aforesaid ecosystem issue though.

*Nikon were the King of Japanese cameras but dropped the ball. The Z9 shows they have picked it back up and are going to hold onto it.

[Slunnie]

For a time there recently, unless you could find Japanese, ALL Makita was budget. These days though, like Nikon with its incredible Z9*, Mak seems to be getting back on track. They were once my go to. They won't get me back due to the aforesaid ecosystem issue though.

*Nikon were the King of Japanese cameras but dropped the ball. The Z9 shows they have picked it back up and are going to hold onto it.
Yeah, we have gone back to Makita cordless drills and the irony is that they’re the ones that have triggers fall off, and blow gearboxes. :lol2:

[Tins]

Yeah, we have gone back to Makita cordless drills and the irony is that they’re the ones that have triggers fall off, and blow gearboxes. :lol2:

Amazing how 'brands' devalue themselves, isn't it? Best example I can think of is Mercedes Benz. They build what is arguably the best car in the world, the S Class. That car has led the world for decades. But then, those pesky Japanese copy it with the first Lexus. BMW made the best Sport Saloon. Lexus ( again ) give us the is200. Thing is, neither Japanese car was as good as the car they copied. And the S Class is still probably the best car in the world. But the gap has narrowed, and they very nearly were.
Thing is though, MB and BMW thought that in order to beat them they needed to join them, and started to give us such things as the A Class and the 1 Series. The Japanese, Koreans and now the Chinese can beat these with their eyes closed. So, in order to remain competitive, the "prestige brands" make themselves decidedly UNcompetitive. Devalue the brand with predictable results. In the sub $60K markets Kia and Hyundai make far better, and also better equipped, offerings than MB and BMW. Once people aspired to a Beemer or a Benz. Now they don't need to. and it's the fault of the companies who got scared.

Makita, and Nikon possibly, got scared. There's an old saying: "Stick to your knitting'. Makita and Nikon may just do that.

[3toes]

Where MB and BMW had problems was 2 fold.

They were in financial difficulty in the late nineties and as a result cut corners to get new product into the market

Then in the way of all businesses they have to keep expanding. To do this they had to move into other sectors of the market. These new customers had the halo expectations the brands had created around themselves with marketing which they had never lived up to. Existing customers new the truth the new ones were disappointed

[Tins]

Where MB and BMW had problems was 2 fold.

They were in financial difficulty in the late nineties and as a result cut corners to get new product into the market

Then in the way of all businesses they have to keep expanding. To do this they had to move into other sectors of the market. These new customers had the halo expectations the brands had created around themselves with marketing which they had never lived up to. Existing customers new the truth the new ones were disappointed

Indeed. And of course nobody foresaw the explosion in the Chinese economy. MB could sell every S Class ten times over in that market today.

[RANDLOVER]

Some even finish their life as such after they have dropped out of the sky for one reason or another.

I knew a soldier who did a lot of work out of helicopters and hated them, he said there were only two types, those that had crashed and those that were going to crash!

[grey_ghost]

There is definitely good Chinese gear and then absolute rubbish..

I know a company that buys a bit of stuff from China. 2 recent stories:

1) Sourced a great product. Very happy with it. Noticed on one batch the goods had hand written labels. Tested the batch - goods failed. Supplier admitted that they outsourced that batch because they couldn’t keep up with the demand…. Needless to say - that batch was returned.

2) New product. As part of QC testing - product sent off for external testing. Product passed with flying colours. 40ft container ordered. Sent for the same tests - failed miserably. Supplier admitted that production changes were made to save costs… Every batch is now tested thoroughly (instead of just random QC tests).

It goes back to the old problem - not much is made in OZ anymore… Everyone wants cheap.

“Cheap no good - Good no cheap”

[4bee]

I knew a soldier who did a lot of work out of helicopters and hated them, he said there were only two types, those that had crashed and those that were going to crash!


It does seem a bit like that some weeks. [bigsad]

[4bee]

There is definitely good Chinese gear and then absolute rubbish..

I know a company that buys a bit of stuff from China. 2 recent stories:

1) Sourced a great product. Very happy with it. Noticed on one batch the goods had hand written labels. Tested the batch - goods failed. Supplier admitted that they outsourced that batch because they couldn’t keep up with the demand…. Needless to say - that batch was returned.

2) New product. As part of QC testing - product sent off for external testing. Product passed with flying colours. 40ft container ordered. Sent for the same tests - failed miserably. Supplier admitted that production changes were made to save costs… Every batch is now tested thoroughly (instead of just random QC tests).

It goes back to the old problem - not much is made in OZ anymore… Everyone wants cheap.

“Cheap no good - Good no cheap”



A little bit of material shaved off here & there can weaken the whole article leading to mass failure or the article breaks in your hand with the slightest pressure. [bigsad][bigsad]

[Tins]

I knew a soldier who did a lot of work out of helicopters and hated them, he said there were only two types, those that had crashed and those that were going to crash!

Much the same with hard drives...