Long Way From Home and NEED Auto Trans Help Bad

[HunterJ]

Greetings D2 Alumni
I am in Melbourne (Cranbourne) for Christmas with family and a looooong way from home (Tamworth NSW) with a major issue with my auto trans.

I know, it's the worst time of year - twas the day before Christmas and everyone is in holiday mode and probably impossible to get a magician to cast their magic spell on my beloved Disco.... or something like that!

Can someone recommend an auto trans specialist in/near Cranbourne North that knows the D2 auto trans backwards that I could contact today?

Would really appreciate any help from the group as my visit was meant to be a two day hit and run job.

I can be reached on 0412 048 679 if anyone can help.

Wishing all a safe and merry Christmas and hopefully a better 2022.
Regards
HunterJ

[alien]

A & B Automatic Transmission Service | Repairs & Remanufacturing – AB Automatics (http://abautomatics.com.au/)

[shack]

What's it doing?

[discorevy]

X2, some of us on here are mechanics who know a little bit about the 4hp22 box.

[d2dave]

So have you had any luck sorting your problem?

[onebob]

I wouldn’t want to be in his position - Tuesday the 4th is likely the first opportunity he’ll have to get it to a workshop..

[thai_tiger]

would this suffice...id have it if i was local



Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/commerce/listing/644169206772463/'media_id=0&ref=share_attachment)

[Tins]

would this suffice...id have it if i was local



Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/commerce/listing/644169206772463/'media_id=0&ref=share_attachment)

Linkee no workee

[thai_tiger]

its advertised on a locked facebook page for jag parts

Jaguar Classifieds and Discussion Australia (https://www.facebook.com/groups/400866686943924)


176025

[admiralranga]

its advertised on a locked facebook page for jag parts

Jaguar Classifieds and Discussion Australia (https://www.facebook.com/groups/400866686943924)


176025

You need to swap the output shafts to make it suit. Doable but a pain, there's a few posts of UK rover owner's doing the opposite.

[HunterJ]

X2, some of us on here are mechanics who know a little bit about the 4hp22 box.

Hi all, firstly Happy New Year and secondly my sincerest apologies for not responding to those that posted until now as it has been a bit of a whirlwind ride! But thank you to all for their input.

In answer to the what's it doing, I braked for a T intersection and when I went to accelerate away she no drive then it abruptly picked up drive and went into limp mode which it stayed in until I got to Cranbourne. It lost drive also when turning at traffic lights and then picked it up again after about 15 - 20 seconds.

I managed to talk to the guy that owns Ultimate Transmissions in Cranbourne on Christmas Eve morning who was trying be packed up and gone by midday. Decent guy and honest that his guys were finishing up a job that had to be out by midday and then they were all out of there till the 4th Jan like everyone else as noted above.

His diagnosis over the phone was that because the bell housing was where the oil was coming from he felt that the front seal in the trans had let go somewhere between Tamworth and Mansfield and that it has been progressively losing fluid. He was happy to look at it tomorrow (4th Jan) if was was still around - bottom line he told me im would be pucked and an exchange one required.

To me it had all the hallmarks of a lack of trans oil and when I topped it up it til it was overflowing as required (with the engine running and in park) it took 2.5 litres of Dex3 and the overflow oil had the most beautiful silvery mist through it - aluminium looks great in oil just not mine!!!!!
It did drive consistently once topped up but it was notchy in the gear change - I'm as game as the next guy but a 1000k drive back to Tamworth on a wing and a prayer didn't do it for me coz all could see was being stranded in the middle of nowhere!

The Disco is still in Melbourne and the NRMA are having it road freighted back to ARB Tamworth who does the major work on it. A lot of the workshop guys have Disco's - 1's and 2's, a Defender and even a Rangy! Should be back at ARB Tamworth by the 18th Jan.

One last question, I have an auto D2 petrol as a parts donor (panels, switches etc. etc.) with a perfectly good box in it - I'm guessing that the petrol and diesel boxes are totally different but if they are the same I will have been kissed on the you know what by a fairy because it will save me 1000's!!!!!!
Can the learned confirm for me one way or another on this one please.

My D2 is in 8-9/10 condition and I don't want to lose it as I luv driving it - 140,00k in two and a half years

Again, thank you all for the input it is very much appreciated - I will keep checking back in regularly to see any responses.
Kind regards
Hunter J

[V8Ian]

I believe the petrol and diesel transmissions are the same, the torque converters are different.

[discorevy]

One last question, I have an auto D2 petrol as a parts donor (panels, switches etc. etc.) with a perfectly good box in it - I'm guessing that the petrol and diesel boxes are totally different but if they are the same I will have been kissed on the you know what by a fairy because it will save me 1000's!!!!!!
Can the learned confirm for me one way or another on this one please.

My D2 is in 8-9/10 condition and I don't want to lose it as I luv driving it - 140,00k in two and a half years

Again, thank you all for the input it is very much appreciated - I will keep checking back in regularly to see any responses.
Kind regards
Hunter J


Not impossible for the front seal to let go , but more likely an o ring on the cooler pipe which will leak just behind the bell housing.
The good news is that you will be able to use the internals , valve body and case from the V8 ( I'd also suggest getting a V8 Torque converter conversion kit and using the V8 converter along with an engine remap if not already done ).
Bad news is that the rear output shaft is a lot longer on the TD5 and the box will need to be stripped down to swap.
At least this will allow everything to be checked .
Fit teflon input shaft seals while apart as well.

[HunterJ]

I believe the petrol and diesel transmissions are the same, the torque converters are different.

Oh thank you so much for that gem of information, my bank balance appreciates you immensely!
Cheers
HunterJ

[HunterJ]

Not impossible for the front seal to let go , but more likely an o ring on the cooler pipe which will leak just behind the bell housing.
The good news is that you will be able to use the internals , valve body and case from the V8 ( I'd also suggest getting a V8 Torque converter conversion kit and using the V8 converter along with an engine remap if not already done ).
Bad news is that the rear output shaft is a lot longer on the TD5 and the box will need to be stripped down to swap.
At least this will allow everything to be checked .
Fit teflon input shaft seals while apart as well.

I have had the flexible ends of both cooler pipes replaced earlier in 2021 - hope that the removal and reinstallation of the pipes hasn't caused an 'O' ring issue.

Thank you for the heads up on the other details - will the TD5 torque converter be pucked also?

Just so I understand how it all works, is there a benefit in using the V8 torque converter and remap in the TD5?

Again, thank you all for the ongoing assistance.
Cheers
HunterJ

[Tins]

While you're at it upgrade the drive plate. The original ones tend to crack.

[discorevy]

I have had the flexible ends of both cooler pipes replaced earlier in 2021 - hope that the removal and reinstallation of the pipes hasn't caused an 'O' ring issue.

Thank you for the heads up on the other details - will the TD5 torque converter be pucked also?

Just so I understand how it all works, is there a benefit in using the V8 torque converter and remap in the TD5?

Again, thank you all for the ongoing assistance.
Cheers
HunterJ


The main benefit of using the V8 medium torque converter together with mild remap is a much more relaxing drive with the same or better fuel consumption.
the vehicle will accelerate swiftly without it revving so high due to the lower stall rate.
If you decide to stay with the TD5 converter you will , at the least have to get it recond, as will be toast, and contaminate the rest of the box


While you're at it upgrade the drive plate. The original ones tend to crack.

Another benefit of the V8 converter conversion kit is that it contains the V8 round drive plate with 4 bolts instead of the 3 bolt triangular TD5 one

[HunterJ]

The main benefit of using the V8 medium torque converter together with mild remap is a much more relaxing drive with the same or better fuel consumption.
the vehicle will accelerate swiftly without it revving so high due to the lower stall rate.
If you decide to stay with the TD5 converter you will , at the least have to get it recond, as will be toast, and contaminate the rest of the box

Another benefit of the V8 converter conversion kit is that it contains the V8 round drive plate with 4 bolts instead of the 3 bolt triangular TD5 one

Thanks again for the info, like the idea of the benefits of the conversion to the V8 converter. If it all has to come out then to me it's a no brainer!
The Land Rover guys at ARB should know all about the conversion kit but if not, who do I get them to order it from?

The engine has been chipped (South Australian company modified the ECU, have the details in the vehicle which is on its way back here) so not sure if that will have any bearing on the remap.

Cheers
HunterJ

[discorevy]

Thanks again for the info, like the idea of the benefits of the conversion to the V8 converter. If it all has to come out then to me it's a no brainer!
The Land Rover guys at ARB should know all about the conversion kit but if not, who do I get them to order it from?

The engine has been chipped (South Australian company modified the ECU, have the details in the vehicle which is on its way back here) so not sure if that will have any bearing on the remap.

Cheers
HunterJ

If it's been chipped then I'm guessing you have an early D2 ( 99-01 ) in which case is the equivalent of a remap so should be fine,
If the D2 owners working at ARB don't know about the conversion kit and they have autos they'll probably want one after driving yours [smilebigeye]


TD5 Heavy Duty Torque Converter Fitting Kit - Ashcroft Transmissions (https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/product/td5-heavy-duty-torque-converter-fitting-kit/)

[HunterJ]

If it's been chipped then I'm guessing you have an early D2 ( 99-01 ) in which case is the equivalent of a remap so should be fine,
If the D2 owners working at ARB don't know about the conversion kit and they have autos they'll probably want one after driving yours [smilebigeye]


TD5 Heavy Duty Torque Converter Fitting Kit - Ashcroft Transmissions (https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/product/td5-heavy-duty-torque-converter-fitting-kit/)

Yup, Daisy is a 99 D2 - called it Daisy coz my aged mother when she was alive used to bitch constantly about the height she had to drag her frail old bones to get into it and it reminded me so much of the Driving Miss Daisy movie :)))))

Spoke to ARB this morning and they all good to do the conversion and get what needs to be done, one guy has a manual and the other an auto and was very interested in the notion of the swap. They hadn't payed with the conversion from petrol to diesel before and wanted to know where to get the adapter kit from.
Is it available locally or will it have to come from the UK?

I can use the V8 torque converter as is right? Obviously checked over before installation.

Last question I guess, I do tow up to 2 tonne with it occasionally (covered trailer with two race bikes and associated gear) so this conversion should be good for that too right?

Thanks again for taking the time to give over info.
Cheers
HunterJ

[Tins]

Last question I guess, I do tow up to 2 tonne with it occasionally (covered trailer with two race bikes and associated gear) so this conversion should be good for that too right?



Just my two bob's worth, but I would seriously recommend upgrading the cooler. I have been told that a cooler out of a P38A can help, or a custom one.

[HunterJ]

Just my two bob's worth, but I would seriously recommend upgrading the cooler. I have been told that a cooler out of a P38A can help, or a custom one.

Thank you for the heads up - was wondering whether the standard one was effective enough.
Cheers
HunterJ

[Tins]

Thank you for the heads up - was wondering whether the standard one was effective enough.
Cheers
HunterJ
Well, I cooked mine towing. Of course, as I didn't know it's history, it might have been on the way out anyway, but I doubt it.

[Pippin]

Well, I cooked mine towing. Of course, as I didn't know it's history, it might have been on the way out anyway, but I doubt it.
Were you towing in third locked up if so it shouldn't over heat, they usually cook when driven towing in 4th without lock up.

[AK83]

Hey Hunter.

As you already have the necessary stuff, I'd also recommend that you use the Auto trans ECU out of the V8 in the TD5 too.

I recently did this to mine(mapped) .. and it's made the most significant difference to the way the TD5(mapped!) drives and feels.
Prior to the auto ECU change, the TD5 held onto lower gears far too long, and nothing I could do, manually, to get it to change earlier.
Mapped TD5 has so much more pulling power, doesn't need 2500-3000RPMs to glide along.

Anyhow, easy change. Trans ECU is under the passengers seat. If you remove the donor cars pass seat, it's easy to see the three nuts that hold the ECU in place. Large multi connector needs a bit of care in removing .. it has a zigzaggy removal/refitment manner about it .. it'll make sense if you do it yourself.
But that you have easy access to the donor car, you don't need the seat out of the TD5 to remove old one, and refit the V8 Trans ECU .. just have 1/4 drive tools .. easy as.

The difference in how it drives was night and day. Changes much earlier now. locks up clutch much earlier now. When brother drove it again with the trans ECU .. he reckons had he done this(which I recommended to him anyhow .. ) he may not have let it go.

Some other guys that have also done the change report both good and bad responses tho .. so if you do try it, and don't get a good result .. easy to change it back.

My major issue just after the trans ECU change tho was that the cruise control acted weird. Far too eager to stick the boot in, change down unlock torque converter and race its way to 3500RPM .. when coming over a very slight crest .. like a gentle freeway overpass... 2 or 3 meters in about 500 kind of gentle.
For me, it was undriveable with CC.
Luckily member Shack came to the rescue and offered his services to remap the TD5 ECU to get it working much nicer. Now, it's 99.99% perfect.
As I read tho, you have an MSB ECU being an earlier model TD5 .. so this could make a big difference compared to an NNN type like I have.

But I reckon it's worth the 30mins of effort to give it a go, and see how it works for you tho. Maybe better than I found(incl the CC operation) .. like I said tho, if you don't .. just go back to the TD% auto ECU.

There is a thread that discusses the Auto ECU swapping and some of the results that I and others got.

[Tins]

Were you towing in third locked up if so it shouldn't over heat, they usually cook when driven towing in 4th without lock up.

No. I was new to Discoveries, I towed in D. Thing is, most newbies here now are also new to them , as I was then.

When you buy a vehicle with a rated tow number you could reasonably expect it to do it. My handbook does not say I should tow in "3".

They did not do it well, IMO.

[Pippin]

No. I was new to Discoveries, I towed in D. Thing is, most newbies here now are also new to them , as I was then.

When you buy a vehicle with a rated tow number you could reasonably expect it to do it. My handbook does not say I should tow in "3".

They did not do it well, IMO. Your right the Handbook is totally deficient on this. Even though there have been threads on this issue over the years, how to tow without over heating the transmission is not front and centre to new owners when they join AULRO. Maybe make a Sticky?

[Tins]

Your right the Handbook is totally deficient on this. Even though there have been threads on this issue over the years, how to tow without over heating the transmission is not front and centre to new owners when they join AULRO. Maybe make a Sticky?

Not a bad idea.

This was the beginning of the end for mine, 700 km in hot weather:
176124
It had been serviced maybe 6 weeks prior. I started noticing things like hard shifts, and it would go into limp home mode, which could be cleared by restarting, usually. Dropped the oil, which was badly burnt and stank. I kept it alive through frequent oil changes, The fact that I was away a lot with work helped as I wasn't driving it. This trip was done before I joined AULRO. I simply drove the car as I expected it could be driven...... When it failed the A clutch was basically non existent.

[HunterJ]

Were you towing in third locked up if so it shouldn't over heat, they usually cook when driven towing in 4th without lock up.

Hi Pippin
Is your question was I towing at the time?
Wasn't towing at the time, but have towed close to 2 ton in 4th (D) at all times previously. Some reasonable trips done, mostly Tamworth - Sydney return a few times, one trip Tamworth - Sydney - Phillip Island return and a trip Tamworth - Sydney - Mount Gambier return.
Cheers
HJ

[HunterJ]

Hey Hunter.

As you already have the necessary stuff, I'd also recommend that you use the Auto trans ECU out of the V8 in the TD5 too.

I recently did this to mine(mapped) .. and it's made the most significant difference to the way the TD5(mapped!) drives and feels.
Prior to the auto ECU change, the TD5 held onto lower gears far too long, and nothing I could do, manually, to get it to change earlier.
Mapped TD5 has so much more pulling power, doesn't need 2500-3000RPMs to glide along.

Anyhow, easy change. Trans ECU is under the passengers seat. If you remove the donor cars pass seat, it's easy to see the three nuts that hold the ECU in place. Large multi connector needs a bit of care in removing .. it has a zigzaggy removal/refitment manner about it .. it'll make sense if you do it yourself.
But that you have easy access to the donor car, you don't need the seat out of the TD5 to remove old one, and refit the V8 Trans ECU .. just have 1/4 drive tools .. easy as.

The difference in how it drives was night and day. Changes much earlier now. locks up clutch much earlier now. When brother drove it again with the trans ECU .. he reckons had he done this(which I recommended to him anyhow .. ) he may not have let it go.

Some other guys that have also done the change report both good and bad responses tho .. so if you do try it, and don't get a good result .. easy to change it back.

My major issue just after the trans ECU change tho was that the cruise control acted weird. Far too eager to stick the boot in, change down unlock torque converter and race its way to 3500RPM .. when coming over a very slight crest .. like a gentle freeway overpass... 2 or 3 meters in about 500 kind of gentle.
For me, it was undriveable with CC.
Luckily member Shack came to the rescue and offered his services to remap the TD5 ECU to get it working much nicer. Now, it's 99.99% perfect.
As I read tho, you have an MSB ECU being an earlier model TD5 .. so this could make a big difference compared to an NNN type like I have.

But I reckon it's worth the 30mins of effort to give it a go, and see how it works for you tho. Maybe better than I found(incl the CC operation) .. like I said tho, if you don't .. just go back to the TD% auto ECU.

There is a thread that discusses the Auto ECU swapping and some of the results that I and others got.

Hi AK83
Good info from the sound of it and I'll pass it on to ARB as the donor car went to them yesterday.
Cheers
HunterJ

[discorevy]

Yup, Daisy is a 99 D2 - called it Daisy coz my aged mother when she was alive used to bitch constantly about the height she had to drag her frail old bones to get into it and it reminded me so much of the Driving Miss Daisy movie :)))))
[bigsmile1]

Spoke to ARB this morning and they all good to do the conversion and get what needs to be done, one guy has a manual and the other an auto and was very interested in the notion of the swap. They hadn't payed with the conversion from petrol to diesel before and wanted to know where to get the adapter kit from.
Is it available locally or will it have to come from the UK?

If you click on the previous link it will take you to the ashcrofts page , yes from UK but very good to deal with and great quality stuff

I can use the V8 torque converter as is right? Obviously checked over before installation.

Yes, just checked over

Last question I guess, I do tow up to 2 tonne with it occasionally (covered trailer with two race bikes and associated gear) so this conversion should be good for that too right?

Will be better to tow with than standard as the V8 converter will achieve fluid lock up earlier making less heat, the idea though, is to try and keep the converter in lock up as much as possible when towing , this might mean driving in 3rd if towing heavy loads in hilly areas/ headwinds / below certain speeds etc.
I usually take people who are going to tow for a drive and show them what to look/ feel for to keep in lock up.


Thanks again for taking the time to give over info.
Cheers
HunterJ

You're welcome Hunter, I used to race bikes as well ( off road variety mostly ) but things don't heal as quick anymore[biggrin] took a mates Harley for a blat yesterday... meh, never liked Harleys



Cheers

[Pippin]

Hi Pippin
Is your question was I towing at the time?
Wasn't towing at the time, but have towed close to 2 ton in 4th (D) at all times previously. Some reasonable trips done, mostly Tamworth - Sydney return a few times, one trip Tamworth - Sydney - Phillip Island return and a trip Tamworth - Sydney - Mount Gambier return.
Cheers
HJNo its usually death by a thousand cuts. Discorevy's response regard lockup is spot on.

[HunterJ]

Well today is the day - Daisy the D2 will be back on the road late this arvo!

A big thank you to all that chipped (no pun intended) in to get 'Daisy' back on the road resplendent with heavy duty torque converter and V8 box.

Also a big shout out to Discorevy who clarified quite a few things for the install - thanks mate, I really do appreciate you taking the time to pass on your knowledge and experience - this guy knows his stuff!

The test drive will be the trip from Tamworth to Louth tomorrow starting at 06:30 and back Sunday so I will drop back to the thread to let everyone n=know how it all went.

Based on my discussions with Discorevy, I am going to be one very happy camper with the end result and am looking forward to the trip.

While I'm at it, I'm looking for a second hand long range tank for a 1999 D2 if anyone has a serviceable one (preferably East Coast for freight reasons) for sale please message me.

Cheers all
HunterJ

[discorevy]

Happy to help out Hunter, hope you have a great trip and let us know your thoughts .

This forum is a great resource for so many things.

While on the subject of transmissions, I'd like to give a shout out to gofer on here, who, after responding to my wanted ad, took the time and effort to not only send me a near complete zf24 trans for a project, but also packed and braced it then took it into Ballarat for transport....this for free, huge thanks mate, It will be put to good use in my project D2.

So really, just paying forward[thumbsupbig]