LPG 8.5kg Bottles

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Just a heads up for anyone that uses these bottles--

There is a new AUS standard valve to replace the POL type thats been around for ever.
Its called a LCC27,
and from April any NEW appliance must use it, but wait, theres more--

While GASMATE make a new type hose to suit the good ole ozzie BBQ,

NO ONE makes them for caravans,, still more---
The new valve was designed to work backwards with the old genuine POL fitting, all good you'd think,
But is yours a genuine solid brass POL? or does it have rubber on the fitting?

I've tried 4 different LCC27 bottles with my non-genuine POL hose and they all leaked.
When asked about this( Oh yes I emailed Elgas) they said all the testing was done on genuine brass POL's, the Elgas solution? use more force!

Elgas are about 75% through swapping over valves in their Swap 'n Go cages, so maybe?? you can still find an old one,, maybe.



Can we buy genuine brass POL hoses? nope not any more,
Can we buy new LCC27 caravan hoses? nope, not till April if my research is right, around 8 months to certify a new gas hose apparently,

From October you wont be able to refill an old POL bottle,

NZ has used the LCC27 for over 20 years, can we just buy two from over there?
Nope! AUS has just changed the standard for LPG rubber hose.


I wouldve used a pic of the proper hose, without the reg, but----- ;)

[Toxic_Avenger]

Not my area of expertise, but I'll leave a few things to ponder:
1) POL connection is a standard fitting, if it isn't working, I'd suggest that part of the system is not up to that standard. I don't keep a tally on this kind of things, but I can't remember too many fixed installation settings where a rubber seal is used. It's usually solid brass bullnose fittings on annealed copper pigtail pipe. I may not be looking hard enough though.
2) AFAIK caravans fall under the definition of a fixed gas installation- meaning that work on the system needs to be conducted by a suitably qualified person. Could this be you, our man of many talents?
3) If I were to put my skeptical hat on, the reason there is no readily available solution may in part be due to item 2 above- it's an installation, and the overall work needs to be done by someone suitably qualified.
4) On certification / aus standards of components like hoses etc... don't get me started. The exist for the purpose of making something 'better' and put red tape in the way of allowing products to market that work within the scope of their new rules.

Let me put it this way - If I were to do my own plumbing or electrical or refrigeration work (which I shouldn't, and don't as these are similarly licensed trades) - then you'll always get better access to trade quality parts at a place like Reece or L&H or Actrol, than I would at a handyman level supplier such as Bunnings / Mitre 10 / Home hardware (or even adapting a Gasmate BCF range to a fixed installation application). You'll also get a better service level with the trade suppliers, as long as you pass the attitude test and don't make it immediately obvious that you are trying to blow yourself up.
But when taking this path, the onus is then on you to ensure that what you do is safe and to code, and you must wear the consequences of your own work, if it fails. For me... just see a gas fitter, do it once, do it right, and sleep tight.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Thats a lot of gas fitters! [bigrolf]
it is essentially the same as replacing the reg hose on a bbq,

and the fact doesnt change there are simply no new hoses for all those gas fitters to fit anyway

[trout1105]

I have NEVER had a problem with the standard fittings that I use with the 8.5kg bottles If it ain't broke why fix it FFS.

[Toxic_Avenger]

Doing some reading, it appears the AGA were in consultation with industry and the public for a while leading up to the soft change we are seeing now. New LPG Cylinder Connection - AGA (https://www.aga.asn.au/new-lpg-cylinder-connection/)

The change to the standard had been in planning for a number of years (Dec 2019), and by the looks there was public consultation. This was partially as a result of some gas cylinder related incidents.
With that in mind, if a supplier has not not geared up to have a product certified before now, given that this is the new normal, then that's 'on them'.

As for not broke / don't fix - I've been witness to multiple examples of people wanting to adapt 4/9kg LPG cylinders to a number of different appliances to the extent that it would/could pose a significant risk of injury or death.
Ie trying to fit an external naked flame type space heater for internal residential use (Carbon monoxide inhalation risk) via changing from bayonet to POL fitting. Another example is cobbling together adapters etc for livestock 'branding box' and home-brew forge type appliances - many with rubber hosing to within 100mm of the fire brick or even uninsulated metal box. Serious risk of gas leak from damaged hose. Most of these applications require no regulator/flowmeter or spark arrestors present to get the gas flow they require.

The new valve has a number of safety features which prevent leaking when a POL fitting is connected, plus an integral thermal cutout device.
Put it this way, if LPG suppliers did not need to purchase literally millions of more complex valves over the course of this changeover, they would not unless it was absolutely necessary. Even with this cost being split over the next 10 years (as the existing fleet falls out of test and is re-valved), the numbers and costs would be astronomical.

[W&KO]

Good chance to ditch gas and switch to induction cooking [emoji106]

[W&KO]

Thats a lot of gas fitters! [bigrolf]
it is essentially the same as replacing the reg hose on a bbq,

and the fact doesnt change there are simply no new hoses for all those gas fitters to fit anyway

I’m pretty sure if you remove your fixed regulator on your van I’m thinking the new hose/regulator in the pic won’t screw straight onto your existing pipework. If this is the case than in theory a gas fitter should be involved.

I’d say there will be just a hose be made available to connect to existing regulators.

Hmmm, off to find some pics of cars Abe regulators.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Why would I remove the vans fixed reg?

A generic LPG mounting on a caravan



https://www.elitecaravans.com.au/images/blog/gas-bottles.jpg

[Pedro_The_Swift]

A pic just to show what the real POL fitting looks like, no rubber in sight.
If you have this type of fitting, just like on my old Golf,
you have no worries.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/272284252967-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

[W&KO]

Why would I remove the vans fixed reg?

A generic LPG mounting on a caravan



https://www.elitecaravans.com.au/images/blog/gas-bottles.jpg

Just reread post 1 and you could find the right pic, I thought you were fitting a hose with a reg……

As I said, I assume they’d have a new hose to fit to existing regulator…..if this is the case I don’t reckon a gas fitter is required.

[johnp38]

LCC27 Gas Bottle Connection - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPIPDlSJMj4&t=71s)

New LPG cylinder valve transition | Department of Mines, Industry Regulation and Safety (commerce.wa.gov.au) (https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/announcements/new-lpg-cylinder-valve-transition)

New LPG gas bottle fittings are coming in 2021. - Freezetec (https://freezetec.com.au/rv-caravan/new-lpg-gas-fittings-are-coming-in-2021/)

Doesn't seem such a big deal

[BradC]

But is yours a genuine solid brass POL? or does it have rubber on the fitting?

I have 3 types of POL here. One is the old solid brass, the second is brass with a small O-ring and the third is brass with a rubber cap.


176947176948
Which one did you have trouble with?

Edit : Review doc here : https://www.standards.org.au/getmedia/57fc5128-ffa9-4fe9-8507-390af9ec508d/GEA-Safe-Connect-LPG-leisure-cylinder-safety-review.pdf.aspx

I've been trying to find some detail on the nose interface on the valve and there's a drawing at the back of that document. It also states in several places that the check-valve arrangement inside the LCC27 (Referred to as the QCC in the doc) will chew out the rubber seals on the POL connectors. Something to watch. Basically my take on the review is there have been accidents caused by leaky valves that this should mitigate, but also your average gronk is incapable of doing up a POL connector properly and this should be easier for the "spanner challenged".

[Pedro_The_Swift]

These are the hoses on non standard POL fittings, no spannering required up till now..
maybe just a pair of multi's?

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/291573885655-0-1/s-l1000.jpg