Dogs kill 4 year old girl

[discoute]

:( Here we go agian another child killed by the next door dogs. Central west NSW. The moron owner should be held accountable. Seams that every couple of mouths we read about a death at the hands of dogs. Where does it stop.

The dogs were reported to jump the fence and mauled the little girl she died a short time later in hospital, there is now a debate raging over weather the dogs should be put down.

My belief shoot the owner and take the dogs to a secure area. After all it is the owner who trained them.

glen

:( my day is now stuffed

[Ace]

I heard that on the news this morning, happened in Warren.

From the way the made it sound here the girl had entered the yard where the dogs were. They didnt say that the dogs jumped the fence. Matt

[discoute]

Qld reporting is the dogs jumped the fence and pack mauled the girl. Hard to work out the truth with the high standrad of reporting we have come to expect.

glen

Still upsetting that a child dies from dog attack.

[Juz]

According to the SMH (via Police) the girl was in the dogs' yard, but that is a piece of news that is immaterial to how the family is feeling and won't help them in any way.
B----dy heart-breaking is the only way to describe it.
I agree in terms of dog owner responsibility.
Juz

[JDNSW]

Verbatim on local ABC this morning from the officer in charge of Warren police - The girl was found in a yard near her home by a relative at about 7.30pm. The time of the attack is unknown and there were no witnesses, or at least they had not found any at 7.15 this morning. The girl was treated at Warren hospital but died in the ambulance on the way to the airport at about 0300.
The dogs are described as "crossbreed hunting dogs", presumably for pig hunting.

We seem to be hearing more of this sort of thing as Discoute implies. I don't know whether it is "better" reporting, or whether they are increasing. If so it could be that more people have savage dogs (depends on training mainly rather than breed), largely, although not apparently in this case, because they feel in need of protection from a non-existent increase in crime; or because there are more children playing alone because of smaller families (dog attacks less likely on a group of children); children brought up so wrapped in cotton wool that they are sure nothing can hurt them; children less likely to be educated in the dangers of strange dogs; children less supervised - adults all working or watching TV; or all of the above.
Very disturbing when it happens though - I have a grand daughter that age.
John

[JDNSW]

Further to my last post - found some more information on the Warren dog attack. The dogs were regarded as child-friendly, and the girl was known to them, and friendly with the dogs - house of a close family friend. But nobody was at home, and the dogs apparently regarded any intruder as a threat. The father of the dog-owner is quoted as telling any owners of pig dogs not to trust them.
John

[chunk]

it does'nt really matter if a dog is breed to kill or trained to kill the owner has a duty of care to make sure that the dog can't get out and that small children can't get in to the yard were the dog is kept.

the poor family has to live with the loss of a child for the rest of their lives. and the dog owner will come up with all these excuses as to why its not there fault.

the dogs will be put down and a couple of months down the track the owner will get a couple of more dogs to replace them. in this day and age there is no place in our society for vicious dogs and until something is done to hold the owners of these dogs responsible, these attacks will continue to happen.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[101RRS]

I have a cocker spanial, and she is a real friendly people person dog but she has snapped the kids when she got annoyed and had a go at the next door neighbour whn he was at my front door and put his hand inside - all dogs are likely to attack in some circumstances. Even though my dog is cute and cuddly - I will not let any strange kids near her.

The police have determined that the fencing arrangements for the dogs were appropriate and the dogs did not escape - the little girl managed to squeese past some vertical railings and enter their domain. In this case I do not blame the dogs or the owner but it is questionable whether hunting dogs should be kept in a suburban environment - even if it is in a place like Warren - why wasn't the 4yo being supervised - that is just as an inportant issue - no one heard the attack and the girl was found later - the dogs and the girl would have heaps of noise - the question is "where were the parents?"

363

[Ace]

I feel for the family involved loosing a child cant be easy. However if the dogs were unable to escape from the yard they were in and the child was found in the yard the dogs live in how is it the dog owners fault? I dont believe in keeping pig dogs in suburban yards, in fact i dont really believe dogs should be used to hunt pigs at all and i am an avid shooter. But the fact remains the onwer had the dogs secured and the child shouldnt have ventured into the yard.

I appologise if i am being in anyway insensitive here but as a dog owner i would be ****ed off if a kid entered my yard without my knowing or my permission and one of my dogs attacked them and then the parents of the child push to have my dog put down because naturally dogs will protect their own property.

This is of course if the child entered the yard, if the dogs in fact entered her yard and attacked then by all means shoot the owner, its no fault of the dog that the fence wasnt enough to keep them in. Matt

[disconut]

This is very sad. Its a horrible way to lose a child.
Unfortunately if the child entered the yard its really not the dogs fault. Parents have a huge job keeping an eye on small ones, but why ask the rest of the world to put up fences to keep them out. (swimming pools come to mind here). People need to fence their own properties to keep the kids safe. If they can't get out unsupervised, drownings, vehicle accidents, dog attacks etc are virtually not going to happen.
Don't get me wrong here, dogs need to be secure within the family unit as well. They can never be trusted with children or strangers. All owners say "my dog would not hurt a fly". We have a small dog, (pom), and if he was having a bad day, I would not trust him alone with kids. You cannot expect people to lock themselves up to protect other peoples children. My cousin has a fully fenced 2 metre high fully boarded fence around his back yard. They are both in the late forties, no children, but, have just spent a fortune on a pool fence to keep other people out! You have to break in to get to the pool fence in the first place. Even his lounge windows had to have locks fitted as they open out onto the pool. Where does the stupidity stop? We have a 5 acre block and a dam, not fenced.
People need to take responsibilty for themselves and their children. Thats my rant for now. Another event that did not need to happen, but the dogs will get the blame.

Trev.

[discoute]

The dogs will get the blame and that is a shame. I just don;t see the need to keep 6 hunting dogs in a suberban area. And the parants of the child well why was a child of 4 by herself early mornin, Many questions but we seem to relive this tale way to much.

Very sad, All of those involved will have to live with this for the rest of there life. I feel for all of them.

It was not my intention to start a very ugly debate. Just a statement that this happens to offen. When will we all learn.

glen

[Yabbie]

I have had just about enough of the ravings of people when something goes wrong.
So far everyone I have spoken to or read from has criticized the owners of the dogs for having hunting dogs in a town enviroment (sounds all too familiar for my likings) wasn't so long ago someone named Scruby was doing it to 4wd owners in the cities.

As the father of 2 boys aged 4yrs & 9mths, I hope I never have to dis-pleasure of experiencing the pain that the families involved are feeling now.

Society seems hell bent on blanket judgement of anything that causes harm to anyone. I'm sure that if more people died from splinters that would spell the end for carpenters and wood cutters.

I saw the remains of a guy who played one on one with a semi trailer ( without his car), needless to say the guy lost. The accident closed the F3 south bound for the remaineder of the day. News reported? None, besides a few traffic up dates on the radio telling you to avoid the area so as not to be inconvenienced. Yet are we hearing about how wacked the truckie was? or How the guy was experiencing depression related to a seperation?. Nope nothing just a normal day at the office why? because where not trying to prohibit any of those things.

Yet if a dog bites anyone or someone bumps into someone with there 4wd vehile regardless of its size, well blow me down if it doesn't make a headline.

My step sister was the victim of a dog attack when she was 5 (she's now 28) dog was destroyed and she received compensation to help with facial reconstruction (and if you saw my step sister before the attack, trust me She needed all the recontruction money could buy:twisted: ). But seriously the first question I remember the cop saying to the old girl back the was where the **** where you!!!

People need to become more responsible about their own children and less relient on the courts to assist in compensation for their
irresponsibility’s and then maybe the world will be a safer place. You need a licence for just about everything these days yet any **** can have a kid.
Instead of chasing the **** end of the problem start at the head, lock the parents up for child neglection. Damm sure if the parents had been in charge of a boat and the kid fell off because they weren't paying attention and drowned there would be charges laid aganst them.

Can't see any difference children are a responsibility "YOURS". Your kids, Your responsible!!!. Don't want to be held accoutable for your inactions watch your friggin kids or don't have them.

Sure accidents will inevitably happen thats why they are called accidents. But if the powers that be can prove the parents didn't do everything humanly possible to prevent it why blame someone else.

Soap box anyone!!

[discoute]

I've never seen a 4wd maul a child to death.

[Yabbie]

I've never seen a 4wd maul a child to death.

How the death occurs is not the issue the issue is another child is dead. Just because one appears more vicious then the other is irrelevant.

My point is how quick people are to cast judgement on a majority for the actions of a minority, i.e. in the same way 4wd owners are seen to be bad drivers just becasue we own and drive 4wd's.

That being the case would you see it fair that all 4wd's are banned. I for one wouldn't. I believe that governments are to quick to ban and outlaw things without giving credit to the average joe who actually is responsible enough to use/have what every the item in question is. I don't believe for one minute that everyone who owns a hunting dog is dumb enough not to secure their yard properly. I do however think that there are more stupid parents then stupid dog owners/4wd owners/ and firearms owners. Maybe the answer is to outlaw stupid parents or just their kids.

[DirtyDawg]

I have a trained Border collie of 8 years, but I will not let my 3yr old play with her unsupervised, I know in my heart she is fine with her but it is my parental responsibilty to supervise..where was the girls parents? well they paid the ultimate penalty the loss of a child.my heart goes out to them but I do suffer a little anger towards their slackness:mad:

[one_iota]

Beyond imagining:mad:

There is a saying:

"Scratch a dog and you'll find a wolf"

[Ralph1Malph]

We have a small, old jack russell terrier as a pet.
Still bites me, the missus AND kids if we put our hands or feet near his feed bowl at feed time. We have all been snapped or bitten and I don't blame him.
The rest of the time he is on the wifes or kids laps in front of the tv.
When the kids were little they used to poke, pinch tweak and whack him, nothing more than a lick as response.
Go near his feed bowl at feed time and you're on your own.
Should I have him put down? or train the kids about doggy behaviour?

I still have the dog!

Prayers for the family of the little girl.:(

Ralph

[JDNSW]

The dogs will get the blame and that is a shame. I just don;t see the need to keep 6 hunting dogs in a suberban area. And the parants of the child well why was a child of 4 by herself early mornin, Many questions but we seem to relive this tale way to much.

Very sad, All of those involved will have to live with this for the rest of there life. I feel for all of them.

It was not my intention to start a very ugly debate. Just a statement that this happens to offen. When will we all learn.

glen

I agree that there should be no need to keep six hunting dogs in a town area, and I'm not a fan of pig hunting either, but the dogs appear to have been properly secured.

Just correcting your time - the girl was found at 7.30pm when the house owner came home - the 3am was when she died. Nobody seems to know just when the attack happened.

While the primary blame here would appear to be on the failure of the parents to supervise the child, we have to realise that some children are adept at escaping supervision, although if they were looking for her at the time surely it would have been mentioned! (My No.1 for example at that age).
John

[mark2]

If I let my 4 year old child wander a block down the road at 7.30 at night and she came to grief, whether it be by falling into a dam, getting run over, mauled by a dog whatever, there would be no one to blame but myself.

There are lots of dangers out there when you're 4 years old and wandering the streets alone. I'm not pointing a finger at a grieving parent/guardian - theres no need to, but lay off the dogs and the owner who was responsible enough to have them locked away on private property.

[VladTepes]

Well it's a complex issue, that's certain.

There's no reason people shouldn't keep hunting dogs in a suburban area BUT they have to realise that if you train a dog to kill, then it WILL kill, given the chance.

If the girl wandered into their yard the the reaction of the dogs is understandable HOWEVER the owner should have mitigated this risk by ensuring that not only could the dogs not escape but also that no child could easily gain access to the dogs. After all, pool owners have to fence their pool it amounts to the same thing.

[Yabbie]

Lateline channel 9 Sydney Reports:

1. The dogs owners weren't home.
2. The child has made it's way through 2 fences to access the dogs.
3. Had been warned not to go near the dogs as they were dangerous.

Question: Just how much protection do you have to provide the general public from you dog/s before you are allowed to use your dog as a deterant. Obviously 2 fences is more then most.

Police dogs and security dogs are used as a deterant to prevent unrulely behaviour thus being the case those bitten/attacked by those dogs have the potential to claim against the owners of said dogs if they attack. As proven it is illegal to use a dog as protection. i.e. Knowingly having a dangerous dog is illegal.

But then police are permitted to break laws to inforce others.

[xrover]

Here in Ontario, Canada, the provincial govt has impossed an outright ban on pit bulls. Existing dogs can remain but no new dogs can be registered in the province. There were a number of maulings, most of them where adults and children were on the sidewalk and attacked unprovoked by pit bulls. In this case you blame the dog owner for their contempt in securing their pet, and as well potentially training it as an attack dog. Can't blame people for walking down their own street and getting attacked.

In a bizarre case, a man in Edmonton was charged for assault after he broke a elderly woman's arm who was defending herself from his attacking dog. He attacked to stop her from beating on his dog.

[RoverOne]

I have had just about enough of the ravings of people when something goes wrong.
So far everyone I have spoken to or read from has criticized the owners of the dogs for having hunting dogs in a town enviroment (sounds all too familiar for my likings) wasn't so long ago someone named Scruby was doing it to 4wd owners in the cities.

As the father of 2 boys aged 4yrs & 9mths, I hope I never have to dis-pleasure of experiencing the pain that the families involved are feeling now.

Society seems hell bent on blanket judgement of anything that causes harm to anyone. I'm sure that if more people died from splinters that would spell the end for carpenters and wood cutters.

I saw the remains of a guy who played one on one with a semi trailer ( without his car), needless to say the guy lost. The accident closed the F3 south bound for the remaineder of the day. News reported? None, besides a few traffic up dates on the radio telling you to avoid the area so as not to be inconvenienced. Yet are we hearing about how wacked the truckie was? or How the guy was experiencing depression related to a seperation?. Nope nothing just a normal day at the office why? because where not trying to prohibit any of those things.

Yet if a dog bites anyone or someone bumps into someone with there 4wd vehile regardless of its size, well blow me down if it doesn't make a headline.

My step sister was the victim of a dog attack when she was 5 (she's now 28) dog was destroyed and she received compensation to help with facial reconstruction (and if you saw my step sister before the attack, trust me She needed all the recontruction money could buy:twisted: ). But seriously the first question I remember the cop saying to the old girl back the was where the **** where you!!!

People need to become more responsible about their own children and less relient on the courts to assist in compensation for their
irresponsibility’s and then maybe the world will be a safer place. You need a licence for just about everything these days yet any **** can have a kid.
Instead of chasing the **** end of the problem start at the head, lock the parents up for child neglection. Damm sure if the parents had been in charge of a boat and the kid fell off because they weren't paying attention and drowned there would be charges laid aganst them.

Can't see any difference children are a responsibility "YOURS". Your kids, Your responsible!!!. Don't want to be held accoutable for your inactions watch your friggin kids or don't have them.

Sure accidents will inevitably happen thats why they are called accidents. But if the powers that be can prove the parents didn't do everything humanly possible to prevent it why blame someone else.

Soap box anyone!!


Only that I totaly agree!

[101RRS]

1. The dogs owners weren't home.
2. The child has made it's way through 2 fences to access the dogs.
3. Had been warned not to go near the dogs as they were dangerous.

Question: Just how much protection do you have to provide the general public from you dog/s before you are allowed to use your dog as a deterant. Obviously 2 fences is more then most.


Not only that, according to ACA the dogs the dogs were actually locked in their cages and were also tied up - two of the dogs were able to slip their leads when the cage doors were opened by the girl.

So - first obstacle was for a 4yo to walk 6 houses down a road unaccompanied.

2nd obstacle was to climb a colour bond driveway gate

3rd obstacle was to get through a 6' wire fence

4th obstacle was to open the cages

5th obstacle was for the dogs to get off their leads


While I do not agree that these dogs should have been kept in town, I think it is unfair to blame the owner or dogs.

I also don't think that it right that the dogs should be put down but really I don't think there is another option - the risk is too great.

The whole saga is an absolute waste all round - note the stereo type - single mum in a lower socio-economic group not looking after the kids - crops up time and time again. I know we shouldn't talk about stereotypes but they are such for a reason - even if we don't like it.

Gazzz

[barney]

having gone thru this sort of thing quite recently, i can directly relate to this situation.
when an 8 yr old kid gets into our backyard over a brick wall that i had told him a week previously, not to climb and not to go near the dogs, then after a school holiday long regime of tormenting the dogs, possible physical cruelty (pulling tails and kicking), he then gets bitten and the feet and ankles by our most trusted dog, who do you blame?
he told lies to his parents and the ranger about what had happened and his parents wanted the dog put down.
luckily, the kids next door, who witnessed the whole thing, told the ranger that this little mongrel was lying an set the record straight.
at the end of the day, the dog was behaving within reasonable manner on it's own property and the kid was tresspassing.
little turd!

[one_iota]

I think that some are missing the point here.

A thousand years ago we lived (and still do) with bears,wolves, lions,tigers and crocodiles,snakes, spiders and scorpions...

Now added to the equation of survival are cars and drugs..

Look after your children

[billnjim]

we had hunting dogs in new zealand up until i was 7 or 8, we had 5 all caged and kennelled seperate from each other, ever since i can remember my sister and i were not allowed anywhere near the caged area and if we did get too close to the dogs would start barking & carrying on letting the old man know we were close and we'd get a belting, we made the "mistake" of making a pet out of one of the dogs, we'd ride her, pull on her tail,ears, etc..., even the neighbours kid could play with her in this manner,& she didn't mind & she was still a good hunting dog with the pack, her downfall was she was too protective. one afternoon we were playing out in the front yard when the neighbour started belted his kid in they're front yard, quick as a flash she was over the waist high fence & bit the neighbour a few times (nothing like her bringdown hunting style bite/grab/maul) to get him to back off, which he did, she then stood guard next to the neighbours kid & wouldn't leave 'til my old man got her. unfortunately she had drawn blood & the old man put her down even though the neighbour didn't want that. i have a ten year old bull terrier & she'll play with anyone & everything, she's been socialized since she was a pup, but hasn't really had kids around her, when there are kids around i supervise her at all times as she tries to sometimes be dominate over them, but strangely this only happens at our house or friends of mine house's she's known before they had kids, i only really supervise her because some kids can be little ****s.

i feel sorry for the parents lost but they are responsible at the end of the day.

[V8Landy]

People seem to jump up and down weather its at the parents or the dog owner.You cant keep an eye out 24 hrs a day on either part.No matter witch way you look at it there is faults on both sides.We all should take reasponsability for our own short comings.If you live in the city should you be without a 4wd.if you live in town should you not hunt the way you want to(weather we agree or not it is an individuals decision on what our hobbies are).As dog owners we have a responsibility to secure our dogs and a parent we have a responsibility to secure and watch our childeren.
Accidents will always happen dont condem someone for making a mistake(no matter how big)because on day you might make the same mistake.
It only takes a moment to get distracted

[CraigE]

Very, very sad. I feel for the family.
I have mixed feelings about these dog issues. It seems that every time a child is bitten or mauled it is put down to a pitt bull terrier and then everyone puts the entire bull terrier family into this arena and wants to ban Staffy's as well. I have owned 3 Staffy's and I believ that they are one of the best family orientated dogs you could have. A lot is determined by training and affection. Generally, I believe any dog that attacks a child should be put down, even in their own yard. If someone needs to keep a vicious dog of any breed then I believe it is not only their responsability to keep the dogs in their yard, but also be able to keep accidental entry into the yard. Muzzles would also stop a lot. I think people who want to keep attack dogs should have to be licenced and trained as do guard dog owners. Not general owners just, people who need or want their dogs to be aggressive. Really no different to gun ownership. And yes I own a Staffy and gun's. I do not wnat my dog to be vicious however.
Last week I personally wittnessed a pitt bull attack and had to intervene and treat a child bitten. I was sitting in my lounge room getting ready for work and I saw a young girl walking her little dog on a lead, when the two pitt bulls and a little maltese terrier from next door walked across the road (now these dogs are normally friendly) and launched a vicious attack on the little girls dog, the girl got caught in the crossfire and recieved about 6 bites, none life threatening, but all the same very scary. Could have been much much worse. Now these dogs I would have described as friendly and my kids have spent a bit of time next door with them. Could have easily been one of them. Woke me up. The guy nest door reckons they are pure bred but I am not so sure.
The facts / statistics generally tell a different story if they are disected correctly and in a calm manner. Nearly every dog attack leads with a piit bull attacks child, normally retracted a day or 2 later in tiny print when it is realised that it was in fact a cross breed or not a bull terrier at all. Sensationalist journalism. As no real statistics are kept in Australia it is really hard to identify a problem breed. Germany is one of the only countries to do so and they have banned bull terriers with little change. Their own statistics tell the story. Without recalling exact figures bull terriers (all 5 breeds combined, which is a joke) came in about 5th or 6th for known attacks. The number 1 attacker was the German Sheppard. You do not here a call to ban these.
At the end of the day all dogs can and will bite. The worst in my opinion are little toy dogs like, maltese terriers, jack russel's and chiauha's, it is just they do not normally do a lot of damage. When a bully or rotty bite thaye can do a fair amount of damage. I believe it is more the owner and training that is at fault not the breed (but not in all cases either).
We have people avoid us when we are walking our Staffy because of all the false jounalism that is promoted. Some people are actually very fearful of my little dog. All she would do is lick them to death. This is how ridiculous our community is getting, we have been asked not to walk our dog to school when we walk with the kids. Paranoia at its best. When in public our dog is always on a lead and controlled. There are many more that walk their cross breed mongrels with no lead or control.
Talk to a vet and they would highly recommend a Staffy as a family pet. Widespread paranoia at its best.
Off the soap box for now.