Gearbox rebuild

[irondoc]

So I just had my gearbox rebuilt on a 2011 2.7 D4 with the ZF 6 speed after some torque converter and surging issues.

The local small Gold Coast transmission place said they are rebuilding the transmissions on about 1 Discovery a week, and there were 2 in the shop when I stopped in....

Mine had 200,000km on the clock and has had 2 oil changes before that. He also recommended I change the transmission oli every 20,000km which seems quite frequent.

Cheers
Lucas

[DiscoJeffster]

At 20,000km you can’t be using ZF fluid in it that’s for sure.

[loanrangie]

At 20,000km you can’t be using ZF fluid in it that’s for sure.

You'd pretty soon match the rebuild cost in replacement fluid.

[River]

You'd pretty soon match the rebuild cost in replacement fluid.

Ive just picked up mine from A&B after full change out of transmission and T/C, they suggest a check over by them at 1000km an fluids and filters at wtee end 50,000 Km if that helps

[loanrangie]

Ive just picked up mine from A&B after full change out of transmission and T/C, they suggest a check over by them at 1000km an fluids and filters at wtee end 50,000 Km if that helps

yeah 50k is a reasonable marker, what it cost for the rebuild ?

[Eric SDV6SE]

So I just had my gearbox rebuilt on a 2011 2.7 D4 with the ZF 6 speed after some torque converter and surging issues.

The local small Gold Coast transmission place said they are rebuilding the transmissions on about 1 Discovery a week, and there were 2 in the shop when I stopped in....

Mine had 200,000km on the clock and has had 2 oil changes before that. He also recommended I change the transmission oli every 20,000km which seems quite frequent.

Cheers
Lucas

200000km seems ok for a rebuild if the fluid has never been changed. I hope they rebuilt or services the valve body too. Fluid changes every 60000km on these ZF boxes is reasonable. Using penrite bmv in these boxes causes no issues.

For reference, mines at 220000km and has had a valve body rebuild, steel pan upgrade and filter change, plus full fluid change at ~ 180000km and has been running penrite bmv since with no issues at all

[scarry]

I remember MR auto in Redcliffe(LR Indies) saying to me thay were also doing heaps of torque converters in the 6 Speed.

[PerthDisco]

I remember MR auto in Redcliffe(LR Indies) saying to me thay were also doing heaps of torque converters in the 6 Speed.

I wonder if these are predominantly tow tugs as I’ve never towed and don’t have any TC issues ‘yet’ (touch wood). Slight harsher change 2-1 / 1-2 but can’t determine if that’s more drivetrain related.

I seem in the minority of people not pulling a 2 to 3.5 tonne caravan around.

[DiscoJeffster]

I wonder if these are predominantly tow tugs as I’ve never towed and don’t have any TC issues ‘yet’ (touch wood). Slight harsher change 2-1 / 1-2 but can’t determine if that’s more drivetrain related.

Yeah. I’d say so. Towing a house behind you will definitely wear them faster. Also seems the 6HP26 wear worse than the 6HP28 in the 3L

[River]

yeah 50k is a reasonable marker, what it cost for the rebuild ?

$6952 drive in drive out transmission and torque converter
Very impressed with service and the car wash 😀

[BradC]

I wonder if these are predominantly tow tugs as I’ve never towed and don’t have any TC issues ‘yet’ (touch wood). Slight harsher change 2-1 / 1-2 but can’t determine if that’s more drivetrain related.

I seem in the minority of people not pulling a 2 to 3.5 tonne caravan around.

When we were D3 shopping back in 2016 I looked at a number of D3s with lunched transmissions and none of the ones we looked at had ever towed.

It's a heavy car and there's a lot of people that seem to want to drive them like a Porsche.

[loanrangie]

Mine was a shopping trolley never been off-road or towed more than a box trailer and started having issues at about 180 odd K's , at 209k now and I'll be doing the valve body rebuild soon.
Fluid/ filter first done at 100-120k and twice by be since, no sign of TC judder touch wood.

[PerthDisco]

When we were D3 shopping back in 2016 I looked at a number of D3s with lunched transmissions and none of the ones we looked at had ever towed.

It's a heavy car and there's a lot of people that seem to want to drive them like a Porsche.

True which is good because I drive like grandpa.

There’s big kms on them in Fords and other with regular servicing.

[veebs]

200000km seems ok for a rebuild if the fluid has never been changed. I hope they rebuilt or services the valve body too. Fluid changes every 60000km on these ZF boxes is reasonable. Using penrite bmv in these boxes causes no issues.

For reference, mines at 220000km and has had a valve body rebuild, steel pan upgrade and filter change, plus full fluid change at ~ 180000km and has been running penrite bmv since with no issues at all

Was the valve body a DIY job, or did you get someone to do that for you?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Was the valve body a DIY job, or did you get someone to do that for you?

DIY, pit a Sonnax Zip gen2 kit through it and used a 10dolllar garden pump up sprayer to refill the tranny and torque converter with BMV.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I wonder if these are predominantly tow tugs as I’ve never towed and don’t have any TC issues ‘yet’ (touch wood). Slight harsher change 2-1 / 1-2 but can’t determine if that’s more drivetrain related.

I seem in the minority of people not pulling a 2 to 3.5 tonne caravan around.

I disagree. The tc locks at 1250 rpm in every gear and the box is rated for 650NM or more. To me the issue is stop start city driving and weekend "soccer runs", meaning the tc is continuously locking and unlocking, causing the pressure plate and seal in the tc to wear out, whereas on a touring drive towing a van you are sitting for hours with it locked up and transmitting torque through the mechanical parts of the gearbox. Fluid cooling plays a big part too, on a long drive, efficient air cooling is achieved. On stop start driving there is no airflow to speak of and the fluid can quickly carbon up. Just my opinion.

[scarry]

Mine had a very slight shudder under hard acceleration,before i moved it on.

MR said just leave it could go for ages like that.

Fluid had been done every 60000Km as per their recomendations,with the ZF genuine fluid.
Minimal towing.

[crawal]

I have just had the t/c done at 200km got the sonex kit through the box , now going well
had error messages re the t/c cost around $3.5

[Keegan]

2003 td5 378,000 k's with towing 3 tonne van for 60,000 k's still on original auto box. D3 and d4 rubbish.

[Shewright5]

So I just had my gearbox rebuilt on a 2011 2.7 D4 with the ZF 6 speed after some torque converter and surging issues.

The local small Gold Coast transmission place said they are rebuilding the transmissions on about 1 Discovery a week, and there were 2 in the shop when I stopped in....

Mine had 200,000km on the clock and has had 2 oil changes before that. He also recommended I change the transmission oli every 20,000km which seems quite frequent.

Cheers
Lucas


$6952 drive in drive out transmission and torque converter
Very impressed with service and the car wash 😀

I was interested reading this post and the replies. I have a D4 2009 model. 203878k’s and I have a surge if I don’t have enough revs going around the 50km/h mark.
a few months ago it did a real surge and the warning indicator came up on the dash. Gearbox fault. My mechanics had it for a couple of days took it for drives but the warning didn’t happen again. When I first took it to them with the warning still on the dash the machine indicated it was the gears between 3&4. Which meant a new gearbox transmission.
I was quoted up to $10,000 but due to the fault not resurfacing they were reluctant to change it.
it’s only going through the city I get a small surge so I use the manual gears.
how much of a surge did you have to warrant having it rebuilt. I’m in Adelaide.
thanks

[irondoc]

My surge was mild and constant - I think it was the torque converter engaging and diengaging. It was most noticeable in 5th gear with cruise control on. Thgere's some videos on this forum of the rev counter surging within about a 200-300rev band. There was also a bit of shudder at times that I originally thought was coarse road noise, but then realised it was the transmission.

They flushed it and put some additive in it and told me to try that. Sometimes it fixes everything, but most times not. In my case it was better for a few weeks, then got worse, so a full rebuild was warranted.

Drives well now, and fuel economy is noticably better.

your issue doesn''t sound like mine.....

[PeterOZ]

$6952 drive in drive out transmission and torque converter
Very impressed with service and the car wash 😀

Was that a new TC? Valve body overhauled and new solenoids too?

4 years ago I was getting the TC shudder, short on cash at the time so opted to just do a triple flush with LF6. I had the steel pan so also did the filter, replaced the bridge seals and oil pump seals and well as electrical connector seal.

2 tubes of Dr tranny in and I am still driving it, the trans is not great as it will slip if I give it a bootfull 3rd & 4th I think.
For the time being I will keep on driving it till it gets bad enough to warrant spending $7 - 8k.

[loanrangie]

Was that a new TC? Valve body overhauled and new solenoids too?

4 years ago I was getting the TC shudder, short on cash at the time so opted to just do a triple flush with LF6. I had the steel pan so also did the filter, replaced the bridge seals and oil pump seals and well as electrical connector seal.

2 tubes of Dr tranny in and I am still driving it, the trans is not great as it will slip if I give it a bootfull 3rd & 4th I think.
For the time being I will keep on driving it till it gets bad enough to warrant spending $7 - 8k.

Sounds like mine but i don't have any shudder at all but the shifts from 1-2 and sometimes 3-4 and some downshiftling in the lower gears is what i get. Not convinced it needs the full rebuild but will do the solenoids etc and then TC then full box if required.

[DiscoJeffster]

Sounds like mine but i don't have any shudder at all but the shifts from 1-2 and sometimes 3-4 and some downshiftling in the lower gears is what i get. Not convinced it needs the full rebuild but will do the solenoids etc and then TC then full box if required.

I did a zip kit and solenoids and got zero improvement in the clunks etc. Trouble is, I didn’t vacuum test the ports it said to, so it’s likely that I haven’t fixed all the issues. Also, some of the clink is possibly driveline.

[loanrangie]

I did a zip kit and solenoids and got zero improvement in the clunks etc. Trouble is, I didn’t vacuum test the ports it said to, so it’s likely that I haven’t fixed all the issues. Also, some of the clink is possibly driveline.

Clunks isn't my issue more shifting into the right gear, smooth as butter once i get past 3 or 4th but occasionally the 1-2 and 2-1 is dodgy.

[PerthDisco]

Sounds like mine but i don't have any shudder at all but the shifts from 1-2 and sometimes 3-4 and some downshiftling in the lower gears is what i get. Not convinced it needs the full rebuild but will do the solenoids etc and then TC then full box if required.

Exacto what I have but 1-2 and no shudder. Replaced the rubber mechatronic to case seals which are supposed to cause this but it didn’t eliminate and fresh oil.

It’s a minor annoyance and I’ll keep going and maybe next oil change remove mechatronics and get a shop to do the zip kit since there’s a bit more than just changing out the solenoids.

[Azza_LR3]

So I just had my gearbox rebuilt on a 2011 2.7 D4 with the ZF 6 speed after some torque converter and surging issues.

The local small Gold Coast transmission place said they are rebuilding the transmissions on about 1 Discovery a week, and there were 2 in the shop when I stopped in....

Mine had 200,000km on the clock and has had 2 oil changes before that. He also recommended I change the transmission oli every 20,000km which seems quite frequent.

Cheers
Lucas

Thats not entirely correct.. The discovery's with the 6spd ZF2H box, have an issue with the servo inside box, that and a poor design convertor.
Get TCE in Melbourne to rebuild the convertor “Properly” much Like Peter does for the Falcon guys, and it won’t fail.
Get your local transmission shop to rebuild the ZF box, and change the servo over. All up, should cost around $7ooo.

Regards the Oil changes, rubbish. ZF themselves say 100ks is sufficient pending you use correct fluid.

cheers
Azza

[matti4556]

Someone pass me the popcorn please......

[PeterOZ]

Sounds like mine but i don't have any shudder at all but the shifts from 1-2 and sometimes 3-4 and some downshifting in the lower gears is what i get. Not convinced it needs the full rebuild but will do the solenoids etc and then TC then full box if required.

I don't get the shudder after I did the service, what I do get on a rare occasion is when I pullup say at lights the transmission will not disengage and keeps trying to drive, perhaps the TC or a clutch in the transmission itself.

Put into neutral for a sec then back to drive and it will behave again. Only does it on rare occasions.

Main issue now is the slipping which will be worn clutch packs. It shifts up and down quite smoothly.
As long as I don't try and give it bootful its fine. [bighmmm]
Not for beach work!! That would find the problems real quick, overheat very fast I would think.:firedevil:

Did you get your popcorm and make yourself comfy mate? [bigwhistle] [happycry] [bigrolf]

[DiscoDB]

80K between oil changes is probably optimal - depending on how much punishment the g/box gets. If it regularly runs hot (>100degC) then you do need to change much more frequently as it is temperature that kills the oil (and the gearbox).

There is a trade off though - if using the ZF LG6 oil you can easily spend a lot more in oil changes than get any real benefit in increased life. For example - if you changed every 50K then you would want the gearbox to last at least 50% longer for it to be cost effective - otherwise you are literally pouring money into the oil recycling bin.

Using the much cheaper Penrite ATF BMV oil is a potential game changer and would warrant more frequent oil changes to alleviate any concerns that the Penrite oil is not as good as the ZF LG6 oil.

[emoji897][emoji897]

[Eric SDV6SE]

80K between oil changes is probably optimal - depending on how much punishment the g/box gets. If it regularly runs hot (>100degC) then you do need to change much more frequently as it is temperature that kills the oil (and the gearbox).

There is a trade off though - if using the ZF LG6 oil you can easily spend a lot more in oil changes than get any real benefit in increased life. For example - if you changed every 50K then you would want the gearbox to last at least 50% longer for it to be cost effective - otherwise you are literally pouring money into the oil recycling bin.

Using the much cheaper Penrite ATF BMV oil is a potential game changer and would warrant more frequent oil changes to alleviate any concerns that the Penrite oil is not as good as the ZF LG6 oil.

[emoji897][emoji897]

Coming up to 50,000km on BMV in my ZF6spd. No slip, shudder or any other issues or error codes at all in all kinds of driving. I cracked the filler plug last service and checked the colour that came our, clear like light honey. In my view, BMV is a proven alternative to the oem LG fluid.

A good mechanic I know uses only BMV in all the ZF boxes he services on 3,5 and 7 series BMW's with no issues either.

[Arch]

I used Penrite in my old X5 and it used 0.5l/100km more diesel. I asked Penrite why this was happening and they said something along the lines like the product meets the requirements they are supplied with, suggesting there might be more requirements. I switched back to genuine LG6 and the fuel consumption went back to normal.

I know plenty of people who use the penrite in their ford falcons with no problems. So it will do, it just might not be the perfect specification.

In the scheme of things, the genuine LG6 isnt that expensive. On sale its a steal.

[101RRS]

Regards the Oil changes, rubbish. ZF themselves say 100ks is sufficient pending you use correct fluid.

cheers
Azza

Another person's view is never rubbish, it might be right, it might be wrong, it may be misguided - but is never rubbish.

[Arch]

Another person's view is never rubbish, it might be right, it might be wrong, it may be misguided - but is never rubbish.

Agreed.

[River]

Was that a new TC? Valve body overhauled and new solenoids too?

4 years ago I was getting the TC shudder, short on cash at the time so opted to just do a triple flush with LF6. I had the steel pan so also did the filter, replaced the bridge seals and oil pump seals and well as electrical connector seal.

2 tubes of Dr tranny in and I am still driving it, the trans is not great as it will slip if I give it a bootfull 3rd & 4th I think.
For the time being I will keep on driving it till it gets bad enough to warrant spending $7 - 8k.


Full remanufactured transmission and TC, they remove computer from your unit reinstall and dyno test

[loanrangie]

Thats not entirely correct.. The discovery's with the 6spd ZF2H box, have an issue with the servo inside box, that and a poor design convertor.
Get TCE in Melbourne to rebuild the convertor “Properly” much Like Peter does for the Falcon guys, and it won’t fail.
Get your local transmission shop to rebuild the ZF box, and change the servo over. All up, should cost around $7ooo.

Regards the Oil changes, rubbish. ZF themselves say 100ks is sufficient pending you use correct fluid.

cheers
Azza

Have you had your converter rebuilt by TCE ?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Thats not entirely correct.. The discovery's with the 6spd ZF2H box, have an issue with the servo inside box, that and a poor design convertor.

Hi mate, can you clarify please re "servo inside box"? Is this on the ZF6HP26/28/32 transmission? Not sure what you are referring to exactly.

[Arch]

Most likely referring to the solenoid valves which control fluid flow to engage parts like the lockup clutch. They are known to clog-up after time due to lack of oil changes.

They are easy enough to replace or if you are game enough do a full rebuild of the valve body which clogs-up too.

Plenty of youtubes on this and parts are easy to get from ebay.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Most likely referring to the solenoid valves which control fluid flow to engage parts like the lockup clutch. They are known to clog-up after time due to lack of oil changes.

They are easy enough to replace or if you are game enough do a full rebuild of the valve body which clogs-up too.

Plenty of youtubes on this and parts are easy to get from ebay.

Thanks for that, yes I've done the full valve body rebuild, including gen2 zip kit and full set of new solenoids, steel pan, and filter etc. Was just wondering if I'd missed a "servo". Note that solenoids are not servo motors, just simple on-off devices really.

[DiscoJeffster]

Thanks for that, yes I've done the full valve body rebuild, including gen2 zip kit and full set of new solenoids, steel pan, and filter etc. Was just wondering if I'd missed a "servo". Note that solenoids are not servo motors, just simple on-off devices really.

While you’re kind of right, not really. The solenoids will be pulse width modulated to effectively turn them on and off at a frequency that keeps a variable flow factor, and while it’s kind of on and off, it’s more of a flow control thing as the open and closes are so fast it’s more of flow regulation. But they’re definitely no servos, correct! Servos being a motor driven device. Solenoids being a current driven magnetic coil and piston.

[Eric SDV6SE]

While you’re kind of right, not really. The solenoids will be pulse width modulated to effectively turn them on and off at a frequency that keeps a variable flow factor, and while it’s kind of on and off, it’s more of a flow control thing as the open and closes are so fast it’s more of flow regulation. But they’re definitely no servos, correct! Servos being a motor driven device. Solenoids being a current driven magnetic coil and piston.

Yes, what DJ said, sorry should have clarified re pulse width modulated solenoids....

[Azza_LR3]

Have you had your converter rebuilt by TCE ?

Yes thats correct, the Convertor was built by Peter at TCE, he has built many for me over the years, and id recommend them without a doubt.

[Azza_LR3]

Hi mate, can you clarify please re "servo inside box"? Is this on the ZF6HP26/28/32 transmission? Not sure what you are referring to exactly.

apology for poor terminology, i was referring to the solenoid. They did something to it, which helps it, shifts smoother, and works better with the convertor .

[Eric SDV6SE]

apology for poor terminology, i was referring to the solenoid. They did something to it, which helps it, shifts smoother, and works better with the convertor .

No worries, they would have taken them out and cleaned them and if done properly , put a seal kit through the valve body.