EMP survivability

[tc_s1]

Half joking at the time a few years ago, (in light of recent events, I see it now as only half) a friend said if it came to an EMP burst rendering electronics largely useless, he knew he was coming to my place to borrow a Perentie. While there's some logic to his argument (diesel remains usable longer on the shelf should pumps stop, and a largely manual, non-electronic engine would improve survivability of that vehicle in general) it raises the question, has there ever been any testing or analysis performed on how well a Perentie would survive an EMP, enabling one to drive off afterwards?

[JDNSW]

I doubt there has been any actual testing, but at a first glance, the only part that would be even slightly susceptible to damage is the alternator.

[tc_s1]

I doubt there has been any actual testing, but at a first glance, the only part that would be even slightly susceptible to damage is the alternator.That was my assessment as well, though it somehow sounds more convincing coming from someone else in the know other than me, myself and I.

[DazzaTD5]

I never thought about an EMP, only ever thought that in the event of the inevitable zombie apocalypse that the Perentie would be the perfect vehicle for survival [tonguewink]

[AK83]

I doubt there has been any actual testing, but at a first glance, the only part that would be even slightly susceptible to damage is the alternator.

Starter motor? relays?

My basic understanding of 'EMP' (there are different types) .. is that energy is transferred down conductors.
That is, any cabling in the area of an EMP is susceptible to power surges, kilovolt type surges.
How well would a battery last having 1000v sent into it via cables capable of hundreds of amps.
Would cables and any electrical device attached to them(eg. electric fuel pump, relays, etc) suffer from the huge voltage spike?(ie. burn out).

Either way, I'd guess post EMP blast, it'd be a hard beast to start up again.

[cripesamighty]

If you are thinking about EMP, then along the same lines, but much more likely are Solar Flares, ie. Mass Coronal Ejections, Carrington Events, Geomagnetic Storms etc.
Recently the Earth missed getting hit by a massive one by only 9 days. See the vid below. She describes it pretty well, and has a bunch of other interesting stuff on her channel.

It missed us by 9 days - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85-p9EIEVUA)

[DazzaTD5]

So wire open the injector pump cut off then roll start down a hill.

A Perentie is going to survive without any electrical system.

[AK83]

So wire open the injector pump cut off then roll start down a hill.

A Perentie is going to survive without any electrical system.

What if you already at the bottom of a hill! [biggrin]

Yeah, TDi same ...

[DazzaTD5]

What if you already at the bottom of a hill! [biggrin]

Yeah, TDi same ...

Well you need to plan ahead, always park at the top of the hill.
But if you have another perentie you can then push start it [tonguewink]

The TDi has a fuel shutoff solenoid that needs power.
Some stationary engines I worked on had a fuel solenoid that you could unbolt and the fuel plunger inside the pump was in the open position so to stop it you put your finger inside to depress it and shut the engine down. You need to do some planning to see if this is possible on a TDi [bigrolf]

[TonyC]

Well you need to plan ahead, always park at the top of the hill.
But if you have another perentie you can then push start it [tonguewink]

The TDi has a fuel shutoff solenoid that needs power.
Some stationary engines I worked on had a fuel solenoid that you could unbolt and the fuel plunger inside the pump was in the open position so to stop it you put your finger inside to depress it and shut the engine down. You need to do some planning to see if this is possible on a TDi [bigrolf]I've never tried, but my understanding is if you remove the fuel cut off solenoid, a 300Tdi will run.
Tony

[JDNSW]

An EMP or Carrington event (CME) induces a voltage in a conductor that depends on the length of the conductor. Voltages induced in anything on a vehicle would be probably in the tens of volts or at most hundreds. While these would effectively destroy most semiconductor devices, it is unlikely to damage a Perentie's electrical system except for the voltage regulator in alternator, and probably some of the bulb filaments and fuses.

On the other hand, small electronic devices are almost certainly going to be destroyed, not by very high voltages, but by only a few volts in the wrong place and wrong polarity, plus, of course if they use thermionic valves, the heaters or filaments will be destroyed by even a couple of volts above what they were designed for.

And power distribution systems will be destroyed, not by the voltage, although that will be high because there are tens or hundreds of kilometres of wires, but by the fact that near DC currents flowing in transformers designed for AC will cause magnetic saturation, overheating, and destruction. And the major transformers are so expensive that few (if any) spares are stocked, are built to order (with six month lead times) - and can't be built at all if the destruction is worldwide!

[NavyDiver]

Half joking at the time a few years ago, (in light of recent events, I see it now as only half) a friend said if it came to an EMP burst rendering electronics largely useless, he knew he was coming to my place to borrow a Perentie. While there's some logic to his argument (diesel remains usable longer on the shelf should pumps stop, and a largely manual, non-electronic engine would improve survivability of that vehicle in general) it raises the question, has there ever been any testing or analysis performed on how well a Perentie would survive an EMP, enabling one to drive off afterwards?

Not sure but I do know that the new RFID type keys have a issue if electromagnetic interference is about. My key fails. Not my old Disco happily. mg xs ev has a remote keyfob allowing keyless entry and starting. Found twice now it would not work and suspected the first time the battery in keyfob might be flat.. that issue has bitten old D3 keys. The dealer who I called the first time mention the interference issue had a solution. EMP burst is a whole world other of pain.[biggrin]

Test suggest almost nothing works post a BIG EMP nuclear burst.

[trout1105]

Personally I would be more concerned about the effects from what caused the EMP in the first place than how the electrics in my 4WD have been affected[bigwhistle]
Maybe a pushbike or a horse is a better option in such an event[thumbsupbig]

[DazzaTD5]

Maybe a pushbike or a horse is a better option in such an event[thumbsupbig]

no no no...
a pushbike gets stuck in mud and sand, a horse has its own mind and could just run off.

Lets face it, the Perentie is the best option

[tc_s1]

Personally I would be more concerned about the effects from what caused the EMP in the first place than how the electrics in my 4WD have been affected[bigwhistle]
Maybe a pushbike or a horse is a better option in such an event[thumbsupbig]While we all seem to default to EMP coming from a mam made source, the impact could also come from a natural, earthbourne or cosmic event as well, and while I realize the odds of us humans messing it all up ourselves are at least as good, I'd prefer to think we'll squeak by without self-inflicting such, even if just barely. Thus my question isn't about whether I'll survive what will cause the hypothetical EMP so much as truly whether my Perentie may.

[BradC]

On the other hand, small electronic devices are almost certainly going to be destroyed, not by very high voltages, but by only a few volts in the wrong place and wrong polarity, plus, of course if they use thermionic valves, the heaters or filaments will be destroyed by even a couple of volts above what they were designed for.

When I was doing my apprenticeship, while at TAFE we studied EMP readiness and the general conclusion was semiconductors were out and thermionics were the go. The theory being the impedance of the event was such that it could cause high enough voltages to damage a semiconductor junction but the source impedance was high enough there was no way to generate enough power to burn out a fllament. The remainder of the "stuff in the jar" remaining completely unaffected.

The crux was a lot of the gear built during the cold war used glass because it was far more likely to survive, not (as many believed) because the military technology was that far behind.

Aside from the regulator and diodes in the alternator, I can't see anything else that might be an issue. If you wanted to "prep for doom" you could always replace the alternator with a generator and a magnetic regulator.

Not very often I can actually refer back to anything I learned at TAFE!

[IMH]

in doing a bit of research for something else, I was reading a little of this thread and wanted to comment on my own experience.

I witnessed during a stint in America some preparations for the just in case of an EMP Blast (generated from nuclear blast). What they did in advance was to install multiple capacitors in critical areas of the vehicle to absorb the momentary emp blast.

What ever they did was apparently researched and considered sufficient for the task.
In what i remember it is only the electronic components that are susceptible, so for the Perentie it would be the diode bank and regulator on the alternator.
Now where and the how I wouldn't have a clue.