Carsguide Defender beat LC300 and Patrol

[shamirj]

And so it is that the Land Rover Defender 110 D250 is our pick of these three SUVs when it comes to the tests we put them through. We love its poise and comfort, and its rugged interior and smart driving nous both on road, off road and with a load.

Second place went to the Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series GX, which is a competent four-wheel drive and an improvement in many ways over the 200 Series, but in this trim it felt pretty stripped back, and we were frankly surprised at its twitchy towing performance.

And in third spot in this test is the Nissan Patrol Ti-L, which offers a lot to like for your money in terms of equipment, and still holds its own when it comes to off-road driving and towing. But you cannot escape the fact it feels relatively ancient inside, the engine is thirsty, and it’s lagging behind for interior smarts.

Full read here...

300 Series Landcruiser GX vs Nissan Patrol Ti-L vs Land Rover Defender 110 D250: 2022 comparison review - off road, towing, on road driving and more! | CarsGuide (https://www.carsguide.com.au/adventure/2022-toyota-land-cruiser-lc300-gx-nissan-patrol-ti-l-land-rover-defender-110-d250)

[Samblers]

I read this recently too.

Although I've never seriously entertained Toyota ownership, the fact that they exist in such vast numbers has always left an impression. Something about the power of group-think, mass appeal, right answers etc., within an Australian context at least.

So I looked up LC pricing, to satisfy my curiosity

:blink:

and the New Defender suddenly seemed so reasonable that I ordered one!

[Vern]

The Patrol seems ancient, well it is over 10 years old compared to the other 2 which are new.

[scarry]

No surprise there,the Defender has the most advanced suspension and Traction Control set up,but it is highly complicated.Although the TC in the other two isn’t that far behind.

If they looked at long term reliability and ownership costs,including resale,no doubt both the Jap vehicles would be way ahead.

[kenl]

I too was worried about resale but then I thought in ten years time I'll be 70, do I care more about resale or actually liking the car I drive?

If you on the bones of your arse then your probably not buying a $100K plus car in the first place.

[Summiitt]

No surprise there,the Defender has the most advanced suspension and Traction Control set up,but it is highly complicated.Although the TC in the other two isn’t that far behind.

If they looked at long term reliability and ownership costs,including resale,no doubt both the Jap vehicles would be way ahead.

There is no such thing as a vehicle that is not highly complicated, if people think a LC is the type of vehicle that can be fixed in the bush then they are kidding themselves. long term reliability on both the LC 300 and Defender cant really be gauged as both are new on the market, though Id be interested to know if anyone has over 100k on a new defender yet??

[scarry]

There is no such thing as a vehicle that is not highly complicated, if people think a LC is the type of vehicle that can be fixed in the bush then they are kidding themselves. long term reliability on both the LC 300 and Defender cant really be gauged as both are new on the market, though Id be interested to know if anyone has over 100k on a new defender yet??

There would be more chance of fixing something with coils and shocks than a complicated EAS system.

[Arch]

I'm pleased the Defender came out on top. I've driven them all and I agree with the assessment. My old RSS is nicer to drive than the GXL LC300. The for many people will be the long term reliability which for two of the vehicles tested is largely unknown.

If I had the choice for a touring vehicle, my brain says the LC300 but heart says the Defender. I am a big fan of the air suspension but the LC300 will have after diff locks which provides simplicity and redundancy.

[Arapiles]

There would be more chance of fixing something with coils and shocks than a complicated EAS system.

The more expensive Toyotas have hydraulic sway bar control and some apparently also have adjustable rear suspension height, so they're not exactly uncomplicated.

Ditto the Patrol, it has a hydraulic system to reduce lean when turning.

[trout1105]

At the end of the day it is the Market that will decide which is the better vehicle regardles of what car jurno's have to say[bigwhistle]

[scarry]

The more expensive Toyotas have hydraulic sway bar control and some apparently also have adjustable rear suspension height, so they're not exactly uncomplicated.

Ditto the Patrol, it has a hydraulic system to reduce lean when turning.

I presume you are talking about the Aus designed KDSS system in some models of LC200,which has a reputation of being extremely reliable,and simple.It also has no where near the complications of EAS.If there are issues it is not a show stopper,unlike some EAS faults on later model LR's,that drop the vehicle to the bumps stops,etc.

Ditto for the system on the Y62,very reliable.

FWIW,only the GRSport in the LC300 range uses the KDSS system.

[CrustyNoodle]

The biggest problem and omission from that review is the fact that you can no long order a D250! The cheapest entry into a diesel Deefer is now the D300 which will set you back about $114k without any options.

I wonder if that would have influenced their result.

[Saitch]

At the end of the day it is the Market that will decide which is the better vehicle regardles of what car jurno's have to say[bigwhistle]

Exactly! Albeit, a market guided by false advertising and information. [smilebigeye]

[100inch]

If they looked at long term reliability and ownership costs,including resale,no doubt both the Jap vehicles would be way ahead.

Bahaaa…..
Currently swapping my 18 RRS against a L663 and when doing the maths I was rather pleased by resale value etc.... oh and fuel consumption was one litre worse off than the company Jap hatchback. Better rely on real ownership experience than pub talk I say. Every time I read this, it confirms why Jap vehicles attract consumers at different income levels than JLR products. m

[grey_ghost]

There is no such thing as a vehicle that is not highly complicated, if people think a LC is the type of vehicle that can be fixed in the bush then they are kidding themselves. long term reliability on both the LC 300 and Defender cant really be gauged as both are new on the market, though Id be interested to know if anyone has over 100k on a new defender yet??

There are a few owners overseas that have over 100,000km on a new Defender. The first production ones came out in late 2019, so it’s certainly possible.

From what I have seen - there have been a few trim issues, but mostly software glitches. (Easily fixed with over the air updates)

Remember a lot of the composition (engines, trans, pivipro, etc) are already shared with other LR products - so they aren’t all brand new components.

I am only 18,000km in - but very happy. Exceedingly so.

Cheers,
GG

[scarry]

Bahaaa…..
Currently swapping my 18 RRS against a L663 and when doing the maths I was rather pleased by resale value etc.... oh and fuel consumption was one litre worse off than the company Jap hatchback. Better rely on real ownership experience than pub talk I say. Every time I read this, it confirms why Jap vehicles attract consumers at different income levels than JLR products. m

Not pub talk,my own experience…..

I have never been fixated on fuel economy,I don’t know why so many are,particularly when depreciation is generally the biggest hit of all,by a country mile.

[trout1105]

Bahaaa…..
Currently swapping my 18 RRS against a L663 and when doing the maths I was rather pleased by resale value etc.... oh and fuel consumption was one litre worse off than the company Jap hatchback. Better rely on real ownership experience than pub talk I say. Every time I read this, it confirms why Jap vehicles attract consumers at different income levels than JLR products. m

So when was the last time you Owned a Jap 4WD ?

As for Jap 4WD owners being from "A different income levels to JLR owners", Besides being an incredibly Snobbish thing to say it is a load of old cobblers as I highly doubt that this forum is solely populated with millionare JLR owners.
Personally I don't care what other people drive nor do I need to own a 4WD with a "Look at Me" factor, All I require is a 4Wd that does what I ask of it without too much fuss or bother.

I have owned Many different "Breeds" of 4WD's and the couple of Landrovers that I have owned have been memorable and I have enjoyed owning them As I have owned and enjoyed Many Jap 4WD's.

I have Never had the blinkers on when buying a 4WD, Boat or anything else, My ONLY criteria has been that whatever I buy HAS to be value for money and IS the purchase suitable for my needs.

[100inch]

So when was the last time you Owned a Jap 4WD ?

As for Jap 4WD owners being from "A different income levels to JLR owners", Besides being an incredibly Snobbish thing to say it is a load of old cobblers as I highly doubt that this forum is solely populated with millionare JLR owners.
Personally I don't care what other people drive nor do I need to own a 4WD with a "Look at Me" factor, All I require is a 4Wd that does what I ask of it without too much fuss or bother.

I have owned Many different "Breeds" of 4WD's and the couple of Landrovers that I have owned have been memorable and I have enjoyed owning them As I have owned and enjoyed Many Jap 4WD's.

I have Never had the blinkers on when buying a 4WD, Boat or anything else, My ONLY criteria has been that whatever I buy HAS to be value for money and IS the purchase suitable for my needs.
I drive Toyotas every day at work in the most remote parts of the world. Yourself?
...... was not suggesting that all LR owners are millionaires but there is definitely a high level of tyre kickers on here, with car ownership history which make me yawn. Hence JLR doesn't produce for them. m

[trout1105]

I drive Toyotas every day at work in the most remote parts of the world. Yourself?
...... was not suggesting that all LR owners are millionaires but there is definitely a high level of tyre kickers on here, with car ownership history which make me yawn. Hence JLR doesn't produce for them. m

I spent the majority of my working life in the Mining, Farming and Fishing game So I am NO "Stranger" to remote travel.
I am now retired and I still spend a lot of time in remote areas that can only be accessed by 4WD.[thumbsupbig]

You are right about JLR no longer producing vehicles for the masses or for the mining, farming or tradies market and only producing luxury SUV's now for the elite's and the "wannabe" elite's.
This is the reason why the Jap brigade and their "Tyre Kicker" owners vastly outnumber to JLR products on the road and in the bush.
There is also the issue of backup, support and parts availabillity (including accessories) that the Jap brigade can support which is sadly lacking for a JLR product unfortunately.

You may be looking at things from a different perspective from your ivory tower But the people you like to refer to as "tyre kickers" I much prefer to call them "Enthusiasts" regardless of the brand/make of 4WD they own.

[100inch]

I spent the majority of my working life in the Mining, Farming and Fishing game So I am NO "Stranger" to remote travel.
I am now retired and I still spend a lot of time in remote areas that can only be accessed by 4WD.[thumbsupbig]

You are right about JLR no longer producing vehicles for the masses or for the mining, farming or tradies market and only producing luxury SUV's now for the elite's and the "wannabe" elite's.
This is the reason why the Jap brigade and their "Tyre Kicker" owners vastly outnumber to JLR products on the road and in the bush.
There is also the issue of backup, support and parts availabillity (including accessories) that the Jap brigade can support which is sadly lacking for a JLR product unfortunately.

You may be looking at things from a different perspective from your ivory tower But the people you like to refer to as "tyre kickers" I much profer to call them "Enthusiasts" regardless of the brand/make of 4WD they own.
Do you actually own any LR product at this stage?

[trout1105]

Do you actually own any LR product at this stage?

I just sold my D2a so at the moment No I don't.
I could ask you if you owned a Jap 4WD at the moment But that would be just as irrelevant as your question.
A more pertinent question would be if I would buy one of the new JLR offerings at the moment instead of one of the Jap offerings and the answer to that question would be a resounding NO[biggrin]

[100inch]

I just sold my D2a so at the moment No I don't.
I could ask you if you owned a Jap 4WD at the moment But that would be just as irrelevant as your question.
A more pertinent question would be if I would buy one of the new JLR offerings at the moment instead of one of the Jap offerings and the answer to that question would be a resounding NO[biggrin]
Don't worry... They sell enough without covering 'potential' clients like yourself. But thanks for proving my point.

[scarry]

, with car ownership history which make me yawn. m

The car history in your sig looks very,umm,boring to me……

[trout1105]

But thanks for proving my point.
And your point is??

[100inch]

The car history in your sig looks very,umm,boring to me……
Cause between listing and being accused of d-swinging by the same folks is only a fingertip away.... m

[ramblingboy42]

quote... But thanks for proving my point.

I have been on the forum for 6yrs without owning a Land Rover, what does that make me?

I did 375,000 in a D2 before that....

my current vehicle is all ends up so similar to a defender in drive line without the problems this forum illustrates.

[Summiitt]

I still cant see why people are so worried about air suspension, its old technology. Ive run airbag trucks (later ones are EAS) in forestry and bush work for years and have only had 2 bags blow, but none the less always got home. LR are no rookies to 4WD air suspension, they designed the first systems in the 90s so I have no issues taking my (still to be delivered 90) up into the scrub and use it like my 130..