Who makes Retractable Seat belt - Over Shoulder frame

[jedwards]

Can anyone point me in the direction of where I might attain the frame that locates the upper support of retractable seat belts?

I have never seen these advertised, but have seen them in images, such as in this image below. You can see the frame behind the front seats which locates the upper sport for 3 point or retractable seat belts.?


Many thanks
Jeff in Perth

[jedwards]

I found exactly what I am looking for from Exmoore, but unfortunately not for Series 1.
Does anyone know if some enterprising person makes them for S1 and my 80"?
177722

[gromit]

Shouldn't be hard to make (or get someone to make). Not sure whether it would pass a roadworthy, worthwhile checking before you go too far, maybe speak to a company that install seatbelts, child restraints etc.

Unlikely they are made for 80" because most people don't want to devalue an 80" by fitting modifications like this.


Colin

[Larry]

I can find lots for the Series 2 onwards, but the Series 1 is a bit elusive. :(
EXT500-1 - Exmoor Soft Top Seat Belt Mounting Bar Use with Belts EXT001-8 and EXT001-7 (https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/ext500-1-exmoor-soft-top-seat-belt-mounting-bar-use-with-belts-ext001-8-and-ext001-7.html)

[JDNSW]

Series 2 onward is easy, because they were optional equipment in specific markets for 3 and hence for the structurally identical 2/2a . But I am unaware of any actually manufactured for Series 1, although I have seen a very few made by or for owners. These would be acceptable for roadworthy purposes if approved by an authorised engineer, but as Colin notes, to meet engineering requirements is likely to mean structural alterations to a vehicle which is increasingly valued according to originality, which means few owners are interested.

[akelly]

For my IIA I engaged an engineer for this issue. I sent him pics of the exmoor one and he basically required me to send detailed drawings and measurements. After that he specified the steel that would have to be used, and for the hoop sections it was solid bar, with a bigger diameter cross bar - it looked like the exmoor one but beefier. He also insisted the cross bar be padded, like a roll cage would be behind the passengers heads.

I didn't end up having it made and just bought the exmoor one because I went a different way with the project and didn't need to get an engineer to go over the car.

This was in Victoria and my experience is that every engineer will interpret things differently. I'm currently looking at doing something similar with a Series 1 and will need to redesign it again because this is a tray back ute so there's no convenient place to put the rear bracing for the exmoor-type one (and yes I realise it is a remake of an original LR part).

Long way of saying - speak to an engineer. In my dealings with them I've always found you get to the point much faster than going round and round the forums.

Other point I'd make is that while yeah Series 1's are considered some level of 'collectable' if you intend to drive the thing on the road regularly you probably owe it to yourself and your passengers to get over the counting of rivets and put some kind of restraints in. I realise this isn't to the taste of a lot of owners and that's fair enough, but I don't think anyone should resist installing belts because of a perceived loss of 'value' of the car - they're not pre-war Bugattis, they're farm trucks.

Cheers,

Adam

[jedwards]

Hi Adam,
I fully agree. Safety first.
I had lap belts in my truck before I stripped it down for the big restoration, but never really found them very reassuring. Proper three point retractable belts is where I would like to go, just need to solve the raised anchor point first.

My truck is fully licensed and I have maintained that throughout the restoration, so I don't need to get it approved or passed by anyone.

I'm in discussion with Purely Metal in the UK. They told me that the only reason they don't offer a Series 1 system, if that no-one would give them a reference vehicle that they could take measurements off.
Ive offered to do any measuring they need and takes lot of pictures, so hoping I can convince them to create one for the series 1. They do seem open to the idea.

regards
Jeff

[B.S.F.]

For my IIA I engaged an engineer for this issue. I sent him pics of the exmoor one and he basically required me to send detailed drawings and measurements. After that he specified the steel that would have to be used, and for the hoop sections it was solid bar, with a bigger diameter cross bar - it looked like the exmoor one but beefier. He also insisted the cross bar be padded, like a roll cage would be behind the passengers heads.

I didn't end up having it made and just bought the exmoor one because I went a different way with the project and didn't need to get an engineer to go over the car.

This was in Victoria and my experience is that every engineer will interpret things differently. I'm currently looking at doing something similar with a Series 1 and will need to redesign it again because this is a tray back ute so there's no convenient place to put the rear bracing for the exmoor-type one (and yes I realise it is a remake of an original LR part).

Long way of saying - speak to an engineer. In my dealings with them I've always found you get to the point much faster than going round and round the forums.

Other point I'd make is that while yeah Series 1's are considered some level of 'collectable' if you intend to drive the thing on the road regularly you probably owe it to yourself and your passengers to get over the counting of rivets and put some kind of restraints in. I realise this isn't to the taste of a lot of owners and that's fair enough, but I don't think anyone should resist installing belts because of a perceived loss of 'value' of the car - they're not pre-war Bugattis, they're farm trucks.

Cheers,

Adam

There are other safety concerns when driving a S1. The original toughened glass shatters on impact with your head, laminated glass closes around your neck after the
head's gone through. It is important that the seal and vent on the fuel cap work as intended. An accident is just that, with the outcome completely unpredictable.

All I needed was a small band aid on the back of my hand. My passenger had a small cut on the fore head, caused by the metal spectacle frame. No seat belts of any kind
and with 120l of petrol on board. After the SES righted the car I pulled out the mud guard and drove it 100km home. The only broken glass was one mudguard mirror.
Sometimes you're just so lucky.
.W

[scarry]

I was in a series 1 that rolled many years ago as well.

The three in the front were held in with the newly installed seat belts,and were fine.

Four of us kids were in the back,the only one to sustain an injury was myself,the side rear window came out and hit me in the arm,needing a few stitches.

The one in my sig has three point belts fitted,but not retractable,and lap sash front middle.

My father fitted them in the late 60’s.

[101RRS]

If retractable belts are not really needed than why not go with belts similar to those in a 101, three point with the top point actually bolted to the bulkhead and capping that is behind the seats - similar to all other series vehicle. When bolted up the belt does not slip off the shoulder due to it being bolted near the middle of the seat position rather than the outside of the capping and when undone the belt just sits beside the seat.

178615

While the standard belt is not retractable, a retractable belt that does not have the position that bolts up on the pillar would probably work.

Garry

[B.S.F.]

II you fit a 3-point belt you need to fit a bent longer hand brake lever as well. And on and on it goes and slowly your car turns into a bitzer
.W.

[1950landy]

I fitted Lap Sash seat belts to my 80" , have bolted the top bolt through the panel behind the seats, with large plated in the rear tray front panel to give plenty of support on the alum panel. I have found the belt doesn't fall off my shoulder . Probably wouldn't pass engineering but better than non at all. 178618 Will try to get photo next week with seats removed. I had them on all three seats but last time I had the seat box out only refitted two as never have any one in middle seat.

[akelly]

II you fit a 3-point belt you need to fit a bent longer hand brake lever as well. And on and on it goes and slowly your car turns into a bitzer
.W.

I have three point retractable belts in my IIA and the straight out handbrake, never been an issue.

[B.S.F.]

There may be different kinds of locking mechanisms on seat belts. I had some in a car, not a L/R that locked up going down a steep incline.
.W.

[JDNSW]

When I had a three point fixed (nonretractable) belt in my Series 1, 2 and 2a in the early sixties I had no issues with the straight handbrake lever, just lean to the left and allow the belt off your shoulder as you bend down. Mind you, I'm not as agile or as slim as i was then........

[jedwards]

WARNING: With three point seat belts, fixed or retractable, it is absolutely critical the the uppermost anchoring point is at least several inches ABOVE the shoulder. If it is any lower, in an accident, the belt will force you downwards, possibly crushing your spine and turning you into a paraplegic. For that reason, the tub's bulkhead capping is a really unsafe place to bolt the seat belt to.

regards
Jeff

[B.S.F.]

If I get into a car with air bags, I expect them to be approved and working as intended. The same with seat belts of any kind. Thinking about your passenger is more important
than thinking about yourself. If you haven't got any belts fitted it's up to the passenger to decide whether he/she wants to travel with you.
.W.

[Vern]

WARNING: With three point seat belts, fixed or retractable, it is absolutely critical the the uppermost anchoring point is at least several inches ABOVE the shoulder. If it is any lower, in an accident, the belt will force you downwards, possibly crushing your spine and turning you into a paraplegic. For that reason, the tub's bulkhead capping is a really unsafe place to bolt the seat belt to.

regards
JeffRange rovers were never like this, seat belt is at shoulder height or lower.

[1950landy]

STD front top anchor points in my MGBGT can be seen each side of the back seat, this is well below the shoulder height. 178635

[101RRS]

WARNING: With three point seat belts, fixed or retractable, it is absolutely critical the the uppermost anchoring point is at least several inches ABOVE the shoulder.

Well many cars have it that way - my 101 does and my EType has it like that as well. Many open top cars are the same.