D5, Defender 110 or LC300

[Barraman]

The time is approaching to replace my D4 TDV6 purchased new in 2015.

The question is Discovery 5, Defender 110 or Landcruiser 300?

I regularly tow a 6.5M boat to remote parts of northern Australia. I love my D4 and it has served me well for 220,000 km - but it’s time!

[RHS58]

I’d probably go LC300. Maybe new Ford Ranger V6 diesel.
But I’ve got another 80k before I catch up to you.

[shack]

I've been watching a number of reviews, whilst I am definitely biased, I believe I can offer some balanced thoughts.

The LC300 will have the best resale and backup support.

It is better on fuel than its predecessor.

It is ugly (imo).

It is not as good a tow vehicle as many of the other options including the defender.

If resale and cost doesn't bother you, the defender would be a fantastic vehicle.

If you like to cover your tail, the "safe" and probably "underwhelming" choice would be the LC.


If I was new car shopping and had wads of cash, I'd go defender.

The only real failing I see is the undersized boot.

I've ignored the "New Discovery" as I feel if you are picking between that and the Defender, the Defender is a runaway winner...... Again except boot space.

[trout1105]

The 79 Series are still available new with the 4.5l V8, If you are towing heavy it is a great choice and much cheaper than the other 3 options [thumbsupbig]

[rar110]

It depends on your priorities in a vehicle.

All are very capable off road, including a new 70 series (76 series as we are talking wagons).

I think all would be roughly equally reliable over the next 5 years at least. If your priority is best value all round high performer and you will turn over in the next 5 years, my rating would be:

1. Defender - as best value all round performer on and off road. Probably reasonable re-sale after 5 years.
2. 300LC - a close second, a good performer on road, and off road, with a very solid track record for resale.
3. D5 - probably equally good all round performer on and off road to Defender, as pretty similar under the skin. But probably not as cheap or as good resale as a new Defender.

The 76 series is much cheaper than all the others and a very capable vehicle off road, but is no comparison to the others on road, both for comfort/features/handling and safety features. But the 76 series has a lot of old school appeal, and I almost bought one recently myself.

[Barraman]

Thanks for the interesting responses so far.
I’m in the fortunate position of being able to buy what my heart desires not what my head suggests!
The comments on the LC 70/76 series are also interesting, but neither my heart nor my head are listening. I hired a 70 series ute a couple of years ago to complete a fishing trip to the NT after the D4 had a tantrum in Mt ISA and got a piggyback home on a tilt tray. It was a pathetic tow vehicle compared to the D4!

My heart seems to have the high ground ATM, and is yelling, “Defender”!

[shack]

Thanks for the interesting responses so far.
I’m in the fortunate position of being able to buy what my heart desires not what my head suggests!
The comments on the LC 70/76 series are also interesting, but neither my heart nor my head are listening. I hired a 70 series ute a couple of years ago to complete a fishing trip to the NT after the D4 had a tantrum in Mt ISA and got a piggyback home on a tilt tray. It was a pathetic tow vehicle compared to the D4!

My heart seems to have the high ground ATM, and is yelling, “Defender”!If money is no object... Just do it!

[rar110]

It’s a tough choice if your in the market to spend $120k. I until recently had a tdv8 L322, I test drove a new Defender, and found them to be pretty similar to drive. So the Defender is very good, and D5 is probably similar.

For me, I could afford but struggled to tie up that much money in a vehicle. Ultimately I decided to settle on two vehicles for the next few years:
* buy a near new diesel Subaru Outback Premium, economical, comfortable, very safe, reliable and very good for general touring and ok for some light off road work;
* invest some money into our D1 300tdi for more occasional serious off road work, as coil sprung, permanent dual range 4WD that is economical, comfortable, capable and simple/reasonably reliable (but old).

[Steve86]

Thanks for the interesting responses so far.
I’m in the fortunate position of being able to buy what my heart desires not what my head suggests!


Stick a low km TDV8 in the D4?
Disco 4 Turbo Diesel V8 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/289299-disco-4-turbo-diesel-v8.html)

[cjc_td5]

Interesting discussion, as my D4 is a 2014 at 260,000km. I'd like to get another 5 years out of it yet.

I don't know what I'd replace it with.... Ineos Grenadier, MUX?, 76 series? I'd even pondered finding a nice RRC and putting in a nice turbo diesel like a 4JJ1. A classic with modern updates...

[scarry]

We had the same decision and went the LC200,about 18 months ago,luckily got in before the prices went silly
No regrets at all.

I would go the 300 all day,just my opinion.It will tow way better and be more comfortable than a 76/79,which you will notice,particularly coming from a D4.

The LC300 will probably need some mods to the suspension,but once sorted it will be fine.

We didnt like the D5,and the Defender,for us, is too small in the rear load area,and at the time way more expensive than a VX LC200,although costs,like fuel consumption didnt really worry us.

Comparing the 200 to the 300,i much prefer the 200.
Larger fuel tank,split tailgate,better roof load rating as we use a RTT.
The LC300 is also a bit cramped in the front seats compared to the 200.

But comparing the old D4 to the LC200,the LC is way ahead in some areas,where the D4 is ahead in others,mainly handling,ride,and a better set up auto.In all other areas,the LC is ahead.

Anyway,good luck with your choice,whatever you order its going to take a while to arrive.

Edit,there is also the Y62,probably worth a look,way cheaper than a 300.

Have a look at this,2022 4x4 Of The Year finalists (https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/4x4oty/2022-4x4-of-the-year-final-six?fbclid=IwAR0t2ubDXb1ydBsUrf1BuGn6XaruQEF7VsGK8 6dC25yapuGz99jKqSHy0oQ)

[ramblingboy42]

Interested to know how the Discovery is holding up against it's sister , the Defender. You cannot get a Defender now for the same price as the Disco. The Disco is a very good but seems to be forgotten by many one eyed supporters.

I think the bull has run the gate for me with Land Rovers and I can buy a very good alternative but highly capable new 4x4 with bells and whistles for $70-80,000 less than similarly equipped Defenders.....and thats a crazy cost difference.

Every time I think about re-entering the fold something like reliability/maintenance or leaping costs and not really being able to choose the build you really want scares me off.

The LC300 looks like taking the cake regardless of motoring journos who wax on about a vehicle they haven't paid the $150,000 purchase price for , and already the LC300 is fully geared up for aftermarket accessories. Hello Land Rover , anyone home?

[shack]

The word around the traps is that the 300 series isn't that great a tow vehicle... Possibly even falling behind the 200.

It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

I should point out that I have not driven one, it's only heresay etc...I do believe the engine is a step forward from the V8 though.

TWT

[trout1105]

The word around the traps is that the 300 series isn't that great a tow vehicle... Possibly even falling behind the 200.

It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

I should point out that I have not driven one, it's only heresay etc...I do believe the engine is a step forward from the V8 though.

TWT

+1
I can't see how making 6 cylinders do the work that an 8 cylinder engine did before as an improvement and I can't see the V6 lasting as long as the 4.5l V8.
Time will tell.

[Barraman]

Have a look at this,2022 4x4 Of The Year finalists (https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/4x4oty/2022-4x4-of-the-year-final-six?fbclid=IwAR0t2ubDXb1ydBsUrf1BuGn6XaruQEF7VsGK8 6dC25yapuGz99jKqSHy0oQ)

Thanks for that - interesting reading.

The Defender still has the front running for me! [wink11]

Having to wait for one is not a problem - I'll just keep the D4 until I get it!

For the record, I think I have had a good run with the D4 and regret that I just can't buy another one - which I would do in a heartbeat.
I have maintained the D4 above and beyond and followed all the advice available here.
It only let me down twice in 220,000 km resulting in tilt tray truck rides back to home - once was its fault (stuck in park) and the other wasn't (near new battery dropped a cell).
The D4 is the easiest cruising, easiest towing (2.5T boat) vehicle I have ever driven.

[Eric SDV6SE]

If money no object, works Defender 110 V8.

Price is similar to the latest Range Rover, but what a sound...

Next would be an AMG G63.

[Barraman]

If money no object, works Defender 110 V8.

Price is similar to the latest Range Rover, but what a sound...

Next would be an AMG G63.

Ha! I already cop enough grief, thank you very much!

When we pull into our favourite NT fishing destination with the big white barra boat behind the white D4 we are immediately labelled "city w#nkers"!
However after a few days fishing, because we usually catch more barra than most including the locals, that is modified to "city w#nkers who can catch barra"! [bigsmile]
Best fishing trip to date? November 2020, after abandoning the D4 in Mt Isa and proceeding with a hired Cruiser - 2 blokes boated 102 barra in 5 days - smallest was 60cm and the biggest was 96cm!

[scarry]

I should point out that I have not driven one, it's only heresay etc...I do believe the engine is a step forward from the V8 though.

TWT

It isn’t just the engine,it’s the 10 speed auto,and the matching of the two.

Reports from many say it’s brilliant,but whether it’s as good as an 8 speed D4 or Defender I don’t know.

The 200 auto,although bullet proof,is old school and needs a tune to sort it.
Even with a tune I recon it still isn’t as good as the ZF 6 speed that was in our old D4.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Ha! I already cop enough grief, thank you very much!

When we pull into our favourite NT fishing destination with the big white barra boat behind the white D4 we are immediately labelled "city w#nkers"!
However after a few days fishing, because we usually catch more barra than most including the locals, that is modified to "city w#nkers who can catch barra"! [bigsmile]
Best fishing trip to date? November 2020, after abandoning the D4 in Mt Isa and proceeding with a hired Cruiser - 2 blokes boated 102 barra in 5 days - smallest was 60cm and the biggest was 96cm!

Pffft, Toyota fan boys always have to have something to complain about. If their vehicles are so reliable, why do they need a service centre in every town?

[Arapiles]

The time is approaching to replace my D4 TDV6 purchased new in 2015.

The question is Discovery 5, Defender 110 or Landcruiser 300?

I regularly tow a 6.5M boat to remote parts of northern Australia. I love my D4 and it has served me well for 220,000 km - but it’s time!

Why not buy another D4? There are quite a few around with under 50,000 kms: if I had the cash I'd buy one myself to stick in the shed.

If you want a new D4, my completely non-car-person wife walked around the new Defender, sat in, got out and said "it's a Discovery". And that was in a showroom with the D5 right next to the Deefer and my wife had just sat in the D5 ...

[Vern]

Thanks for that - interesting reading.

The Defender still has the front running for me! [wink11]

Having to wait for one is not a problem - I'll just keep the D4 until I get it!

For the record, I think I have had a good run with the D4 and regret that I just can't buy another one - which I would do in a heartbeat.
I have maintained the D4 above and beyond and followed all the advice available here.
It only let me down twice in 220,000 km resulting in tilt tray truck rides back to home - once was its fault (stuck in park) and the other wasn't (near new battery dropped a cell).
The D4 is the easiest cruising, easiest towing (2.5T boat) vehicle I have ever driven.Sounds like you have already made up your mind.
Now for me, to purchase whats in the current market would go.
1 defender
2 y62
3 range rover
4 76/79 with lots of mods
5 d5


Now for those that say the new defender is the new disco. It looks that the new 300 is the new prado. Much smaller all over than the 200, and not winning many hearts unless you are a Toyota fan boy.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Defender P400 has stolen my heart, I don't want to let my trusty D4 go, but can't deny she's getting on a bit. Buggered if I will be driving a UJV...

[rar110]

Pffft, Toyota fan boys always have to have something to complain about. If their vehicles are so reliable, why do they need a service centre in every town?

Because that’s almost the only brand vehicle you see west. ;)

[rar110]

Sounds like you have already made up your mind.
Now for me, to purchase whats in the current market would go.
1 defender
2 y62
3 range rover
4 76/79 with lots of mods
5 d5


Now for those that say the new defender is the new disco. It looks that the new 300 is the new prado. Much smaller all over than the 200, and not winning many hearts unless you are a Toyota fan boy.

The Y62 is the cheapest among that group, and is pretty reasonable value. If the spend limit was $85 (incl common mods to 76/79) the Datsun would prob come out in front. For me they have a lot more appeal than a RAM.

[rar110]

Defender P400 has stolen my heart, I don't want to let my trusty D4 go, but can't deny she's getting on a bit. Buggered if I will be driving a UJV...

It does sound appealing.

[discorevy]

Thanks for the interesting responses so far.
I’m in the fortunate position of being able to buy what my heart desires not what my head suggests!
The comments on the LC 70/76 series are also interesting, but neither my heart nor my head are listening. I hired a 70 series ute a couple of years ago to complete a fishing trip to the NT after the D4 had a tantrum in Mt ISA and got a piggyback home on a tilt tray. It was a pathetic tow vehicle compared to the D4!

My heart seems to have the high ground ATM, and is yelling, “Defender”!

In that case , Defender it is !.
Might be optimistic but I think the basics ( and engines ) should be good for the long haul ( straight 6 over the V6 design is better straight off the bat ).

I have a few mates that are tojo fan boys and 1 has a workshop in Perth. He was undecided about the 300 so drove his mates new one to his workshop ( wasn't overly impressed on the drive ) put it up on the hoist and went through it, shortly after, decided he won't be buying one.

I think there could be problems towing in Oz with the hot "V".

The others will just blindly buy them regardless, assuming they will be as reliable as their 1HZ powered 80 series

At least they don't have timing belts I guess

[scarry]

Buggered if I will be driving a UJV...

Yep,the UJV isnt in the same class,its in the commercial vehicle tractor class,even fully modded.

Not many would go from a D4,LC,or y62 to a UJV,no matter how well its modded.

They are also no where near as good a tow vehicle as the others,and the OP tows.

[scarry]

Pffft, Toyota fan boys always have to have something to complain about. If their vehicles are so reliable, why do they need a service centre in every town?

Work the maths out,Land Rover,as an example, have one service center for every 100 or so vehicles sold,annually,Toyota have one service center for around every 600 vehicles sold per year.

Whatever that all means[bighmmm][biggrin]

[shack]

( straight 6 over the V6 design is better straight off the bat ).




For sure, I'm glad someone said it, diesels in a "V" design have been a known problem for at least 30 years, always with the crankshafts.

The only real way around it would be spacing the cylinders further apart, but then you'd loose the main benefit of a "V"-- small form.

Give me a straight 6 (or 5!) Any day.

We have 5 "V" diesels on the place, and tbh the TDV6 is probably the best of them.

Petrols get away with it for the obvious reason.

Here's a good game to play with friends one night.... Name 3 good "V" configuration diesels!

[trout1105]

Here's a good game to play with friends one night.... Name 3 good "V" configuration diesels!

Caterpillar, GM, 4.5l toyota.
All diesels and All robust long lasting engines,

[Bulletman]

I remember reading once that Mercedes experimented with a V deisel engine for german fighter planes in WW2.
I worked with Mercedes V6,V10 and V12 engines in the 1980s and they were amazing for there power to weight ratio. They later got bought out by MTU.
Back on topic , if $$ isn't the main driver here have you considered a RR with a 4.4 deisel . I remember visiting Justin Cooper in tassie and if that's what hes chosen as his LR vehicle then it's a very good yard stick to measure from.
Bulletman

[Vern]

4.5l toyota.
robust long lasting engines,

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha kidding right?

[shack]

I have a caterpillar V8, I also have a Mercedes V10.


Neither are very good.

John Deere had a go, [emoji107]
Cummins had a go, reliable but underpowered for size.


No doubt there are some V diesels that are ok... But I imagine the ratio of poor to good , would be much worse than a straight diesel.

[Graeme]

if $$ isn't the main driver here have you considered a RR with a 4.4 deisel .They're no longer available except in unsold L405 stock.

[shanegtr]

It looks that the new 300 is the new prado. Much smaller all over than the 200
How'd you come up with that - its practically the same dimensions externally as the old 200. I do admit that in the flesh the 300 does look smaller than the 200, but the measurements tell a different story

[Vern]

How'd you come up with that - its practically the same dimensions externally as the old 200. I do admit that in the flesh the 300 does look smaller than the 200, but the measurements tell a different storySeen them side by side, looks smaller.
Plus fron what I've read, they are less roomy inside. Drivers cockpit and second row seating.

[Barraman]

I remember reading once that Mercedes experimented with a V deisel engine for german fighter planes in WW2.
I worked with Mercedes V6,V10 and V12 engines in the 1980s and they were amazing for there power to weight ratio. They later got bought out by MTU.
Back on topic , if $$ isn't the main driver here have you considered a RR with a 4.4 deisel . I remember visiting Justin Cooper in tassie and if that's what hes chosen as his LR vehicle then it's a very good yard stick to measure from.
Bulletman

I cop enough grief now without going to a RR !

[scarry]

Seen them side by side, looks smaller.
Plus fron what I've read, they are less roomy inside. Drivers cockpit and second row seating.

Thats like saying a Pathfinder is the same as a GU or Y62.

Go look at them,or drive the two of them and you will find out they are completely different in every way.Size as well.

They are smaller in some areas, than the 200,but nothing like a Prado.

i wouldnt believe everything thats on the Datsun FB sites.[wink11]

[Vern]

Thats like saying a Pathfinder is the same as a GU or Y62.

Go look at them,or drive the two of them and you will find out they are completely different in every way.Size as well.

They are smaller in some areas, than the 200,but nothing like a Prado.

i wouldnt believe everything thats on the Datsun FB sites.[wink11]


Thats like saying a Pathfinder is the same as a GU or Y62.

Go look at them,or drive the two of them and you will find out they are completely different in every way.Size as well.

They are smaller in some areas, than the 200,but nothing like a Prado.

i wouldnt believe everything thats on the Datsun FB sites.[wink11]

Sorry, but I'm not getting info from Nissan facebook pages. Or from your usual car reviews.
But this one I found to be completely honest and unbiased.

2022 Toyota Landcruiser 300 Series Review: Finally, a CRITICAL review. - YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C_U-TsazrJ0&feature=youtu.be)

I'm comparing it to a mates 7 seat prado, it has very similar room inside to the 300.

It looks like a total disappointment compared to the 200.
Watch the clip and let me know if I'm completely wrong.

[grey_ghost]

Sorry, but I'm not getting info from Nissan facebook pages. Or from your usual car reviews.
But this one I found to be completely honest and unbiased.

2022 Toyota Landcruiser 300 Series Review: Finally, a CRITICAL review. - YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C_U-TsazrJ0&feature=youtu.be)

I'm comparing it to a mates 7 seat prado, it has very similar room inside to the 300.

It looks like a total disappointment compared to the 200.
Watch the clip and let me know if I'm completely wrong.

Interesting clip - he definitely raises some good points. I can’t believe that people think a new Defender is expensive! Some of the features (info system, camera - look horrible). And he says that it’s a horrible drive around town - which is where a lot of them live. He does say that it’s a good tow vehicle though.

I just can’t get over the lack of features for the price! Eeek

I suspect that the loyal Toyota buyers will buy it regardless.

[Arapiles]

I just can’t get over the lack of features for the price! Eeek

That's standard Toyota practice (and other importers as well): one of the reasons people buy the grey import cars from Japan is that you get a higher spec for less money. Classic example is that apparently the Tarago sold in Australia was de-specced by Toyota Australia to save money, but wherever it wasn't obvious, like swapping in a cheaper rear suspension. It looked the same as the Estima and Lucida (the Japanese market versions) but it didn't have the same mechanical specification. And you couldn't get the 4WD versions at all.


I suspect that the loyal Toyota buyers will buy it regardless.

Yep, rusted on buyers.

[Vern]

Interesting clip - he definitely raises some good points. I can’t believe that people think a new Defender is expensive! Some of the features (info system, camera - look horrible). And he says that it’s a horrible drive around town - which is where a lot of them live. He does say that it’s a good tow vehicle though.

I just can’t get over the lack of features for the price! Eeek

I suspect that the loyal Toyota buyers will buy it regardless.Yeah exactly. But I'm not sure he actually towed with it, but speculates that's what it would be good for.

Was quite amazed at the lack of space, especially in the back compartment when all the seats are up. Couldn't even fit a box of beer[emoji1]

[grey_ghost]

Yeah exactly. But I'm not sure he actually towed with it, but speculates that's what it would be good for.

Was quite amazed at the lack of space, especially in the back compartment when all the seats are up. Couldn't even fit a box of beer[emoji1]

I drive a MY22 90 - the rear seat room is huge compared to the 2nd row in the 300 Series. My boot is about the same size as the 300 with those 3rd row seats - but I knew that when I bought it.

He also mentions that it is a horrible drive - I absolutely love my 90. It’s a brilliant drive.

I also own numerous other Landy’s - I am both old/new school.

Go the Defender - you won’t be disappointed.

[scarry]

This one might be interesting as well,i havent looked at it,but generally these guys are not too bad.

2022 4X4 Of The Year: Winners crowned | 4X4 Australia - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weZwKdVGYnw)

[scarry]

And he says that it’s a horrible drive around town - which is where a lot of them live. He does say that it’s a good tow vehicle though.

Yet i have seen a couple of reviews that say the drive train is fantastic for towing,but the suspension isnt that great and needs mods to be a good tow vehicle.

Could be some models have a different suspension set up to other models,which is no surprise.

It also boils down to different peoples ideas,and what they like.

If we were all the same,it would be boring[biggrin]

[grey_ghost]

This one might be interesting as well,i havent looked at it,but generally these guys are not too bad.

2022 4X4 Of The Year: Winners crowned | 4X4 Australia - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weZwKdVGYnw)

Hmm - typical review “you can’t get the after market gear for a Defender”.

True - it isn’t as easy to get it, BUT there is already and Australian designed and built bar for it. And there are numerous other companies bringing stuff out (wheels, lights, lift kits, etc)

[Vern]

This one might be interesting as well,i havent looked at it,but generally these guys are not too bad.

2022 4X4 Of The Year: Winners crowned | 4X4 Australia - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weZwKdVGYnw)I dunno about that, I know one of the judges, he's a land rover nut[emoji1]

[Arapiles]

I dunno about that, I know one of the judges, he's a land rover nut[emoji1]

Would he be the one wearing the Land Rover t-shirt?

[SimmAus]

D5 or Defender? If you’re coming from a D4 I’d be interested in your opinion on driving position / view comparison.

For me..the D5 driving view / position is more aligned with the D4…I felt the side views/windows on the defender felt cramped in comparison.

Off-road capability…I haven’t seen any real difference between the two (happy to be proven wrong) and the D5 has more storage space….

However, the D5 rear does take some getting used to….

It’s a nice position to be in, shopping for a new car, I’m looking at keeping my D4 running a few more years…

[Arapiles]

Hmm - typical review “you can’t get the after market gear for a Defender”.

True - it isn’t as easy to get it, BUT there is already and Australian designed and built bar for it. And there are numerous other companies bringing stuff out (wheels, lights, lift kits, etc)


But, bull-bars aside, the issue with LRs is that you don't need a lift kit because of the EAS, you don't need diffs or lockers because of the electronics that are built in, and so on ... I think the main reason some people buy other 4WD brands is so that they can stick onto them stuff that should've been standard in any case.

[Bulletman]

I cop enough grief now without going to a RR !

I would quite happily sit in a 4.4 v8 diesel RR and cop whatever grief people would throw at me and take it all with a big smile on my face.

If your going to cop grief anyway for being in anything other than a LC why not cop it in something like a RR

Bulletman

[Barraman]

I would quite happily sit in a 4.4 v8 diesel RR and cop whatever grief people would throw at me and take it all with a big smile on my face.

If your going to cop grief anyway for being in anything other than a LC why not cop it in something like a RR

Bulletman

OK, so you made me look but even my friends would give me grief if I bought one!
Can I get it with a bull bar and winch? No use to me without!
Can't find a 4.4 v8 diesel - just a 3.0 v6 - mind you that's got more than enough grunt for my needs.

[Discodicky]

Caterpillar, GM, 4.5l toyota.
All diesels and All robust long lasting engines,

...... and the V8 in the (was) American International Harvestor dozer. Re-named Dresser after the takeover and laterly DRESSTA now built in Poland, but the later TD20's (an absolute icon in the bulldozer field) had the straight 6 Cummins engine.

Nothing wrong with the V8 Navistar engine.

Re the V8 'cruiser. Yes, it seems to be an ok engine now they've fixed the chronic oil consumption and injector problems it initially had, but when you think of its size/horsepower, it's a very lazy/thirsty slug of an engine and not hugely impressive in terms of performance and torque for 4.5 litres.

As an example V8 Audi/VW/Porsche engine puts out far more impressive power/torque/less emissions for much less cubic capacity.., and as far as I'm aware they have proven to be reliable.

[Graeme]

I would quite happily sit in a 4.4 v8 diesel RR and cop whatever grief people would throw at me and take it all with a big smile on my face.

If your going to cop grief anyway for being in anything other than a LC why not cop it in something like a RR

BulletmanAbsolutely. Mine was a 3 yo and had only done 18K kms when I bought it.

[shack]

I should re phrase my comment regarding "V" diesels.

Name 3 "high output" reliable "V" diesels.

So forced induction and intercooled.

In the ball park of 55 - 65kw per 1000cc's.



I know of a number of ok, low output N/A diesels, it's when they are made to perform they fall over.

So what this means is low revving, thirsty, low output diesels are ok.

The VDJ falls into the low output section even though turboed and intercooled, as it is reasonably low output by todays standards per cc.

For E.G. lets take the 2.0l 2017 Amorak, 132 kw,

At that rate, the 4.5 VDJ would need to put out just under 300kw to be considered a similar high output engine...

No doubt they can, but how reliable would they be, Toyota would never let them out the factory like that for sure.

(I'm not suggesting the Amarok is reliable!)


All diesels made today essentially need to be high output for 2 reasons, no one will put up with low output and the fuel use! And they would struggle to meet emissions targets.

I know the 4.5 is still used in the 70's but I'm guessing emissions will get them in the end.

And lets not get onto the Ford Powerjoke.

No doubt there are some V's that are ok, but the hit rate would a full length of the straight behind an inline 4 or 5 or 6.

Cheers
James

[chuck]

SD6 in D5 2019 - 2021 225 kw out of 3 litres
6.7 litre ford V8 - 354 KW
4.0 litre Audi V8 - 320 Kw

Seems to be a direct correlation between cost & power

for example $8000 on Toyota V8 gives you 230 kw with 900 nm - ARMAX product which warranty's motor for original warranty period.

[Discodicky]

Got a mate with a 3yr old Jeep Cherokee with the V6 diesel.
He just sent me some literature from Jeep re their new STRAIGHT 6 twin turbo diesel.
Over 500 hp.
Seems nearly everyone is going to the inline 6 these days.

[shack]

Seems nearly everyone is going to the inline 6 these days.

There's a reason..about every 15 years we learn that diesel V's are problematic and we go away from them again.

[mowog]

I have a 2010 D4 which I brought new. Its now at 252,000klm it has never left me stranded, yes its had problems however it has been a workhorse doing an awesome job. I never thought much of the D5 I looked but never felt inclined to buy one.
I also have a 2008 L322 TDV8 now that is one hell of a car. I am really surprised at how similar it is to drive compared to the new Defender. I am talking about around town and highway cruising. And that TDV8 3.6 is a bloody gem.

I started the hunt for a new tow vehicle the LC200/300 idea was dumped straight away. You need to spend thousands of dollars to make either anywhere near capable. I tried a Y62 it drove well but again money needs to be spent on them. Dealer networks I think people are kidding themselves on what they think can be fixed in remote area's and modern 4x4 will be stuck for parts if it breaks. The bad part for Toyota owners you will be stuck in some small crappy town. Land Rover will recover your car to a Dealer in a nice town.

I drove a D300 Defender I loved the drive but I was unimpressed with the engine.
I drove a P400 Defender that is one hell of an engine

My pick a P400 S 110 I have ordered one I picked the S because I could get a P400 at reasonable price.

My build https://build.landrover/8C51608B

[Eric SDV6SE]

I have a 2010 D4 which I brought new. Its now at 252,000klm it has never left me stranded, yes its had problems however it has been a workhorse doing an awesome job. I never thought much of the D5 I looked but never felt inclined to buy one.
I also have a 2008 L322 TDV8 now that is one hell of a car. I am really surprised at how similar it is to drive compared to the new Defender. I am talking about around town and highway cruising. And that TDV8 3.6 is a bloody gem.

I started the hunt for a new tow vehicle the LC200/300 idea was dumped straight away. You need to spend thousands of dollars to make either anywhere near capable. I tried a Y62 it drove well but again money needs to be spent on them. Dealer networks I think people are kidding themselves on what they think can be fixed in remote area's and modern 4x4 will be stuck for parts if it breaks. The bad part for Toyota owners you will be stuck in some small crappy town. Land Rover will recover your car to a Dealer in a nice town.

I drove a D300 Defender I loved the drive but I was unimpressed with the engine.
I drove a P400 Defender that is one hell of an engine

My pick a P400 S 110 I have ordered one I picked the S because I could get a P400 at reasonable price.

My build https://build.landrover/8C51608B
You are my new best friend . I have followed the same logic. Yet to drive one, but just on paper the P400 makes so much sense.

My MY11 D4 has its foibles, but it has ALWAYS gotten us home- period.

[ramblingboy42]

quote.. I can’t believe that people think a new Defender is expensive!

well , you must be looking at different price lists than me.

they are expensive , that's why I haven't got one.

[mowog]

You are my new best friend . I have followed the same logic. Yet to drive one, but just on paper the P400 makes so much sense.

My MY11 D4 has its foibles, but it has ALWAYS gotten us home- period.

The P400 Defender is a very impressive bit of kit. The LC300 is a bloated ugly duckling.

[DiscoJeffster]

You are my new best friend . I have followed the same logic. Yet to drive one, but just on paper the P400 makes so much sense.

My MY11 D4 has its foibles, but it has ALWAYS gotten us home- period.

Apart from the P for petrol. Do I also presume that for the whole 294kW you’re up for 98 RON? I guess when we’re in this league we’re not watching the cost of fuel. I still don’t think I’d switch from diesel.

[Tombie]

**** it - wait for an Ineos [bigwhistle]

[Tombie]

The P400 Defender is a very impressive bit of kit. The LC300 is a bloated ugly duckling.

Had one pull alongside in Adelaide the other day - OMG its disgraceful...

He launched from the lights as I wasnt in play mode... Next set of lights he didnt fare so well [bigsmile]

[DiscoJeffster]

**** it - wait for an Ineos [bigwhistle]

Oooooo [emoji4]

[Discodicky]

I have a 2010 D4 which I brought new. Its now at 252,000klm it has never left me stranded, yes its had problems however it has been a workhorse doing an awesome job. I never thought much of the D5 I looked but never felt inclined to buy one.
I also have a 2008 L322 TDV8 now that is one hell of a car. I am really surprised at how similar it is to drive compared to the new Defender. I am talking about around town and highway cruising. And that TDV8 3.6 is a bloody gem.

I started the hunt for a new tow vehicle the LC200/300 idea was dumped straight away. You need to spend thousands of dollars to make either anywhere near capable. I tried a Y62 it drove well but again money needs to be spent on them. Dealer networks I think people are kidding themselves on what they think can be fixed in remote area's and modern 4x4 will be stuck for parts if it breaks. The bad part for Toyota owners you will be stuck in some small crappy town. Land Rover will recover your car to a Dealer in a nice town.

I drove a D300 Defender I loved the drive but I was unimpressed with the engine.
I drove a P400 Defender that is one hell of an engine

My pick a P400 S 110 I have ordered one I picked the S because I could get a P400 at reasonable price.

My build https://build.landrover/8C51608B

That's a nice "build" and would also be my choice if I could afford....
0-100 kph (0-60 mph) is very impressive at 6.1 secs.
I have owned several Mk2 Jaguar 3.8 litre manuals and in their day/s (1960's) they were considered a fast motor car with their quoted 0-60 mph time was 8.1 secs.
Now, a rotton 'ol 4x4 is quicker......[bawl]

ENJOY!! (When you get it!!) [biggrin]

[Eric SDV6SE]

I have a 2010 D4 which I brought new. Its now at 252,000klm it has never left me stranded, yes its had problems however it has been a workhorse doing an awesome job. I never thought much of the D5 I looked but never felt inclined to buy one.
I also have a 2008 L322 TDV8 now that is one hell of a car. I am really surprised at how similar it is to drive compared to the new Defender. I am talking about around town and highway cruising. And that TDV8 3.6 is a bloody gem.

I started the hunt for a new tow vehicle the LC200/300 idea was dumped straight away. You need to spend thousands of dollars to make either anywhere near capable. I tried a Y62 it drove well but again money needs to be spent on them. Dealer networks I think people are kidding themselves on what they think can be fixed in remote area's and modern 4x4 will be stuck for parts if it breaks. The bad part for Toyota owners you will be stuck in some small crappy town. Land Rover will recover your car to a Dealer in a nice town.

I drove a D300 Defender I loved the drive but I was unimpressed with the engine.
I drove a P400 Defender that is one hell of an engine

My pick a P400 S 110 I have ordered one I picked the S because I could get a P400 at reasonable price.

My build https://build.landrover/8C51608B

Nice, I'm aiming for the P400 in SE spec...

[josh.huber]

Apart from the P for petrol. Do I also presume that for the whole 294kW you’re up for 98 RON? I guess when we’re in this league we’re not watching the cost of fuel. I still don’t think I’d switch from diesel.

I would, never used to say that. But now most of them are boosted. Excellent

[grey_ghost]

Apart from the P for petrol. Do I also presume that for the whole 294kW you’re up for 98 RON? I guess when we’re in this league we’re not watching the cost of fuel. I still don’t think I’d switch from diesel.

Prefers 98 - it will happily run on 95.

[Eric SDV6SE]

**** it - wait for an Ineos [bigwhistle]

Yeah-nah, had a look even signed up and got a brochure. The interior, solid live axles and price tag just don't grab me. Bmw engines not bad,

[Eric SDV6SE]

I would, never used to say that. But now most of them are boosted. Excellent

Same. If we follow Europe then diesels will end up being taxed off the road

[scarry]

Same. If we follow Europe then diesels will end up being taxed off the road

There is nothing to replace them ATM, for many,except maybe a petrol.

So they will be around for a long time yet.

Our vehicle market is completely different to Europe,which many seem to forget.

[Vern]

There is nothing to replace them ATM, for many,except maybe a petrol.

So they will be around for a long time yet.

Our vehicle market is completely different to Europe,which many seem to forget.And our vehicle market is absolutely tiny compared to Europe. So I would be guessing manufacturers aren't going out of their way just for us.

I was chatting with an engineer from the fiat group last year when doing a job at his house, he had since returned to Australia after working o/s for 25 years, he said our car market here is far to small for manufacturers to care about.

[mowog]

Nice, I'm aiming for the P400 in SE spec...


The price difference P400 S > P400 SE is about $12k I played the option game with my P400 S and ended up with a good spec. I did a side by side compare on the same build there is nothing I see in SE that I will actually miss. The 20" wheels well someone will have a set of those for sale at a good price thats if I decide I want them.

[PeterJ]

Been mulling this one over for quite some time as well. The list in no particular order is
1) $ $$ into the D4 and just enjoy the best vehicle I have ever owned.
2) Y62 plus $$$ to make it fit for purpose.
3) Defender 110/130
4) RAM 1500 plus $ to make it fit for purpose.
5) LC200/300 - Not on the list simply because the Y62 was a better cost based solution if that was the type of vehicle chosen.

I have been touring and towing for quite a while and to get the usable space in the D4 out comes the 2nd and 3rd row seats and in goes purpose built storage and this is also the problem with 1, 2, & 3 above and something I am really over. I just want the cargo not in the passenger space.
Every solution is a balancing act for me not least of which is heart or head, but in the end I needed increased payload, comfortable margins on GVM, GCM, Fr & Rr Axle loads and TBW, this was the non-negotiable list. What ever vehicle you choose do your numbers very carefully, the manufacturers live to confuse (if not deceive), I suggest you take the vehicle(s) to the weigh bridge and get real numbers on which to start your number crunching, trust me it become a sobering experience.

Did not care particularly about diesel/petrol but a diet of 98 RON was a big problem for places we go, so if petrol it had to be able to eat 91 RON.

Have fun[bigsmile1]

[trout1105]

in the end I needed increased payload, comfortable margins on GVM, GCM, Fr & Rr Axle loads and TBW, this was the non-negotiable list. What ever vehicle you choose do your numbers very carefully, the manufacturers live to confuse (if not deceive), I suggest you take the vehicle(s) to the weigh bridge and get real numbers on which to start your number crunching, trust me it become a sobering experience.

Sounds like a single cab 79 Series ute with a canopy would be a perfect match for your needs.[thumbsupbig]

[PeterJ]

Sounds like a single cab 79 Series ute with a canopy would be a perfect match for your needs.[thumbsupbig]Ahhhh yes, I see now that I did omit the word *civilised" in my wish list, silly me, but then there was always something so familiar looking at the 79 series and watching Fred Flintstone get his car stopped and around a corner [emoji1787][emoji1787]
No, never on the list.

[shack]

Had one pull alongside in Adelaide the other day - OMG its disgraceful...

He launched from the lights as I wasnt in play mode... Next set of lights he didnt fare so well [bigsmile]What pulled alongside?

Defender or 300?

[trout1105]

Ahhhh yes, I see now that I did omit the word *civilised" in my wish list, silly me, but then there was always something so familiar looking at the 79 series and watching Fred Flintstone get his car stopped and around a corner [emoji1787][emoji1787]
No, never on the list.

If you want "Civilised" then you are fresh out of luck for your GVM requirements and carrying capacity with the new breed of luxury 4WD's.
Not too many of those can carry 1000kg+, tow 3.5t and have masses of room to cart every thing you want as well and still be legal.
Good luck with your quest[thumbsupbig]

[PerthDisco]

Or be like Ronny Dahl and replace with aftermarket every internal and external component of your 79 to make the perfect 79

I’d love to know if YouTube $$$ pays for it all. Tag along tours must be a massive PITA. Historically he was not getting sponsorship or endorsement from suppliers so as to remain “unbiased”.

[Odysseyman]

This might give some perspective on which vehicle is best for towing.

3500kg tow wagons - what can they really tow? - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Xy1OBULKKwk)

cheers
David

[grey_ghost]

Been mulling this one over for quite some time as well. The list in no particular order is
1) $ $$ into the D4 and just enjoy the best vehicle I have ever owned.
2) Y62 plus $$$ to make it fit for purpose.
3) Defender 110/130
4) RAM 1500 plus $ to make it fit for purpose.
5) LC200/300 - Not on the list simply because the Y62 was a better cost based solution if that was the type of vehicle chosen.

I have been touring and towing for quite a while and to get the usable space in the D4 out comes the 2nd and 3rd row seats and in goes purpose built storage and this is also the problem with 1, 2, & 3 above and something I am really over. I just want the cargo not in the passenger space.
Every solution is a balancing act for me not least of which is heart or head, but in the end I needed increased payload, comfortable margins on GVM, GCM, Fr & Rr Axle loads and TBW, this was the non-negotiable list. What ever vehicle you choose do your numbers very carefully, the manufacturers live to confuse (if not deceive), I suggest you take the vehicle(s) to the weigh bridge and get real numbers on which to start your number crunching, trust me it become a sobering experience.

Did not care particularly about diesel/petrol but a diet of 98 RON was a big problem for places we go, so if petrol it had to be able to eat 91 RON.

Have fun[bigsmile1]

Have you looked at a Commercial 110? Basically a 110 without rear seats. Originally not available in OZ, but I read somewhere recently that it now is…

[PeterJ]

Have you looked at a Commercial 110? Basically a 110 without rear seats. Originally not available in OZ, but I read somewhere recently that it now is…Not specifically, no. I did email JLR and asked if the 130 was likely to have a higher GVM and RR axle limit increase but of course all too secret at the moment.
Y62 with GVM upgrade and some other mods was high on the list but in the end I wanted to get the cargo out of the passenger area, so the RAM it is. Can do GVM up on those and don't need much else but very sadly a lot of 4WDing is not available.
But that's me, not sure if it's helping the OP, but with the towing you mentioned it falls very heavily influenced by the head.

[Vern]

If you want "Civilised" then you are fresh out of luck for your GVM requirements and carrying capacity with the new breed of luxury 4WD's.
Not too many of those can carry 1000kg+, tow 3.5t and have masses of room to cart every thing you want as well and still be legal.
Good luck with your quest[thumbsupbig]Y62 has a gvm of 3500kg, you can get upgrade to 3680, 3999, 4085, 4200, 4495kg.
So not out of luck when it comes to gvm upgrades.

[Vern]

Did not care particularly about diesel/petrol but a diet of 98 RON was a big problem for places we go, so if petrol it had to be able to eat 91 RON.

Have fun[bigsmile1]

I know it's off your list now, but y62 will run fine on 91, 95, e10, and 98. Amd there are also some hefty gvm upgrades available too.

I like civilised as well, and I know what you mean about cargo space, I'm actually toying with cutting my patrol into a dual cab in a couple of years time.

[Discodicky]

And our vehicle market is absolutely tiny compared to Europe. So I would be guessing manufacturers aren't going out of their way just for us.

I was chatting with an engineer from the fiat group last year when doing a job at his house, he had since returned to Australia after working o/s for 25 years, he said our car market here is far to small for manufacturers to care about.

Same as the earthmoving market.
I remember when I first started with Komatsu in 1987, the entire Australian market for ALL brands (not just Komatsu) was approx 1500 hydraulic excavators sales per YEAR.
Japan alone market was around 1900 (of all brands) per MONTH!!

Australian market for most things is insignificant ..... well, except maybe for Aussie Rules footballs. [bigrolf][bigrolf]

[shack]

Not on the list I know,

But if I was in the market... An Iveco Daily would be getting seriously looked at.

[trout1105]

Y62 has a gvm of 3500kg, you can get upgrade to 3680, 3999, 4085, 4200, 4495kg.
So not out of luck when it comes to gvm upgrades.

I am talking straight out of the box, Anything with a ladder chassis can be GVM upgraded.

[chuck]

Let you know how i go with civilised.

Going from D5 to 79 series via a D2

Spent $20k on top of purchase price but still $30k short of diesel 110 Defender.

Cheers

[scarry]

Mistake[biggrin]

[scarry]

If you want "Civilised" then you are fresh out of luck for your GVM requirements and carrying capacity with the new breed of luxury 4WD's.
Not too many of those can carry 1000kg+, tow 3.5t and have masses of room to cart every thing you want as well and still be legal.
Good luck with your quest[thumbsupbig]

To do that the vehicle will need an increase in GCM,so good luck with it.
Increasing GCM is opening a can of worms.

[Vern]

I am talking straight out of the box, Anything with a ladder chassis can be GVM upgraded.Sorry, didn't see anything about it being straight out of the box.
Yes, y62 has a chassis, thats the 'civilised' vehicle I was talking about and so was Peter.

[Tombie]

What pulled alongside?

Defender or 300?

300

[scarry]

300

Your 2.7L D4 must be pretty impressive if it can do 0 to 100 in less than 8 seconds.[wink11]

[rdenyer]

Just been through the same question.
I don’t tow a boat.
looking to trade up from my Discovery 3
quoted 12 - 18 months delivery on a new Discovery or Defender
(There is no way I can wait that long for anything I buy)
Ended up going with the much cheaper current model Ford Everest as a stop gap.
Delivery this week.
Hopefully it will last a couple of years and I will be able to by another Landrover.

Keeping the Discovery 3, plan to slowly replace all the worn out bits in my own time.


The time is approaching to replace my D4 TDV6 purchased new in 2015.

The question is Discovery 5, Defender 110 or Landcruiser 300?

I regularly tow a 6.5M boat to remote parts of northern Australia. I love my D4 and it has served me well for 220,000 km - but it’s time!

[Phideaux]

Not much to contribute to this thread but off the top of my head:
* The waiting list for the new Toyota Land Cruiser is very long (about a year?) (began even before it was released, and there's that semi-conductor shortage)
* The Disco5 is lighter in kg and has a stiffer chassis than the D4, still has the 3.5 tonne tow-rating;
* the 110 (and 90) are 'the best off-road unmodified vehicle you can get' (but they're a complex beast - they all are - trackside repairs? Hmm...)
My guess is, if the Disco4 got you there and back, the Disco5 would do the same, only slightly better.
All the usual codicils 'if you're going remote' would apply.

[Barraman]

Just an update on my thinking!

The D300 Defender 110 remains top of my list. I'm not completely off the D5 and I'm sure it would do the job - but I hate the look of the thing. I need to drive them both. Not bothered by a 12 mth wait to get either.
Not interested in the Patrol (petrol only) or the LC300 (very mixed reviews). Iveco Daily 4x4 - yeah........nah!

I have no interest in the off-road thing - 4 yrs in an CMF (army reserve) transport platoon will do that! [bigsmile]

My D4 is pretty basic but its std ability, towing capacity and cruising comfort did it for me - and still does. I ordered it with the eDiff, ECB bullbar and Warn winch, UHF radio and added FyrLyt Nemesis 9000 lights and Safari snorkel. Its replacement would be much the same - with roof rails. I regret not ordering the D4 with roof rails and keep thinking of getting them fitted but never get around to doing it.

I accept that these sophisticated vehicles can stick you up. The D4 has had two truck rides in 7 yrs, 1 x 400 km and 1 x 900 km but was recovered to my home town on both occasions - both under LR Assist. I also carry RACQ Platinum roadside assist! I carry a sat phone so can whistle up help from anywhere.

I don't tow the boat over much dirt - but need to be able to get out if it rains. I also need to be able to get the rig back onto the narrow seal if I have to pull off onto wet black soil shoulders to let a semi passed (400 km Tableland Hwy in the NT). I carry a ground anchor to help with that.

I have NEVER had to use the D4's capability - but its there if ever needed!

[ramblingboy42]

quote..quoted 12 - 18 months delivery on a new Discovery or Defender

I understood there were a few Discos available at dealerships....according to carsguide.

[Tombie]

Your 2.7L D4 must be pretty impressive if it can do 0 to 100 in less than 8 seconds.[wink11]

Their bloated "full kit" LC wouldnt have been near that...and the 0-100 on the LC is 17.8 seconds in diesel...


Did you see they are a "Hot Vee" engine - with the turbochargers in the middle of the valley... thats going to make for fun repairs

[Graeme]

.and the 0-100 on the LC is 17.8 seconds in diesel...

Surely that's not correct. The sales brochure for my 4.4 TDV8 L322 has 7.8 seconds 0-100 kph.

[Tombie]

Surely that's not correct. The sales brochure for my 4.4 TDV8 L322 has 7.8 seconds 0-100 kph.

All testing on youtube of the diesel shows it around 17 seconds

[scarry]

Their bloated "full kit" LC wouldnt have been near that...and the 0-100 on the LC is 17.8 seconds in diesel...


Did you see they are a "Hot Vee" engine - with the turbochargers in the middle of the valley... thats going to make for fun repairs

Anything bloated wont go well,a bit like me..[bighmmm][biggrin]

Official figures,i had to look them up,0 to 100Km/hr.Hopefully they are correct.[bighmmm]

Y62 6.6 sec
LC200 Diesel 8.2 sec
LC300 Diesel 6.7 sec
Defender D300 7.0 sec
From memory D4 3.0L is in the 9's.

The D2 TD5 was around 15 seconds from memory.

All not bad really for heavy bloody things.

Anyway,they are not racing cars,far from it.

Hot V,will be easier to change a turbo than the old models,liquid cooled intercooler as well.

In 5 yrs we will know if there are issues,no doubt.

[scarry]

All testing on youtube of the diesel shows it around 17 seconds

Not the ones i have seen,its been clocked mid to low 7's.

In fact if you watch it against a stock 200,the 200 will jump it but the 300 hauls it in.

A mild tuned 200 will leave it quite a way behind.

[Graeme]

All testing on youtube of the diesel shows it around 17 seconds
Not 0-100 mph by any chance?

[PeterJ]

Quote from OP - "Not interested in the Patrol (petrol only) or the LC300 (very mixed reviews)."

If it's a "heart" driven purchase then I think you are going to be a happy (and lucky) man but if there's a bit of non-emotional process as well after running the numbers you might be surprised about which vehicle costs you less in the long run, and/or by how much, the extra fuel used is easily off-set by other costs associated with purchase, running and eventual resale.
Simple example running around the traps last year was the $30k difference in price between the Y62 and LC200, if I recall correctly the the LC200 had to get to 400,000km to break even with the fuel costs/economy equation.
It was a John Cadogan piece I think and while it is now a bit out of date with respect to the numbers, the principal is still valid.
I priced a Defender and D5, they both came out considerably more than either the Y62 or the RAM, (both with $$$ added to make them fit for purpose) but of course it's a very difficult comparison .
Food for thought, which is why you asked the question I guess [emoji848][emoji106][emoji4]

[Discodicky]

Your 2.7L D4 must be pretty impressive if it can do 0 to 100 in less than 8 seconds.[wink11]

More'n likely they'd have only got to say 60-70 between lights and I don't see why an ECU modded 2.7 couldn't knock off an LC to that sort of speed.

Saw my first 300 yesterday and maybe its looks will grow on me...........[bigwhistle]

[Tombie]

Aren’t they ugly as sin!

[Tombie]

Quote from OP - "Not interested in the Patrol (petrol only) or the LC300 (very mixed reviews)."

If it's a "heart" driven purchase then I think you are going to be a happy (and lucky) man but if there's a bit of non-emotional process as well after running the numbers you might be surprised about which vehicle costs you less in the long run, and/or by how much, the extra fuel used is easily off-set by other costs associated with purchase, running and eventual resale.
Simple example running around the traps last year was the $30k difference in price between the Y62 and LC200, if I recall correctly the the LC200 had to get to 400,000km to break even with the fuel costs/economy equation.
It was a John Cadogan piece I think and while it is now a bit out of date with respect to the numbers, the principal is still valid.
I priced a Defender and D5, they both came out considerably more than either the Y62 or the RAM, (both with $$$ added to make them fit for purpose) but of course it's a very difficult comparison .
Food for thought, which is why you asked the question I guess [emoji848][emoji106][emoji4]

To quote Robert P:

Life’s to short to drive boring cars.

You need to enjoy your time behind the wheel, not feel it’s a chore.

[PerthDisco]

Aren’t they ugly as sin!

They take the best designers from the refrigerator market by the looks. Chest freezer specialists mainly.

I still have to squint and partially look away when I see the last Prado front end.

[trout1105]

To quote Robert P:

Life’s to short to drive boring cars.

You need to enjoy your time behind the wheel, not feel it’s a chore.

This is why many of us drive series landovers, 101's, unimogs and various jap 4WD utes that don't have the bells, whistles and creature comforts in them.
Maybe its something about the fact that you can take these through the bush withut worrying about scratching the duco or if one of the many electronics on board is about to kark it that holds our appeal and gives us so much enjoyment[biggrin]

Luxury cars ARE nice to drive But they are not much Fun off road.

[PeterJ]

This is why many of us drive series landovers, 101's, unimogs and various jap 4WD utes that don't have the bells, whistles and creature comforts in them.
Maybe its something about the fact that you can take these through the bush withut worrying about scratching the duco or if one of the many electronics on board is about to kark it that holds our appeal and gives us so much enjoyment[biggrin]

Luxury cars ARE nice to drive But they are not much Fun off road.Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree, I certainly considered the HSE D4 to be luxury when I got it, still do really, and it's definitely been off-road and fun, but I understand where you're coming from, so I guess we just agree.[emoji106][emoji4][emoji12]

(Geeeezz, how good was that political spin BS, [emoji1787] I am a discrace)

[trout1105]

Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree, I certainly considered the HSE D4 to be luxury when I got it, still do really, and it's definitely been off-road and fun, but I understand where you're coming from, so I guess we just agree.[emoji106][emoji4][emoji12]

(Geeeezz, how good was that political spin BS, [emoji1787] I am a discrace)

For me my D2a was a luxury 4WD But it is nowhere near as much fun as my 79 series to drive in the rough stuff , It also doesn't have the "Ear Candy" that the big stainless exhaust sytem on the 4.5l V8 puts out either[biggrin][bigrolf]

[shack]

For me my D2a was a luxury 4WD But it is nowhere near as much fun

"Fun"

Read: "violent" [emoji1]

[BMKal]

They take the best designers from the refrigerator market by the looks. Chest freezer specialists mainly.

I still have to squint and partially look away when I see the last Prado front end.

I reckon Prado front ends have been butt ugly ever since the 120 series first came out (and I've had a 90 series, four 120's and one 150 series - all work vehicles). [biggrin]

I recently travelled from Port Augusta to Adelaide in the back seat of an upmarket model 200 series. Was the most uncomfortable ride I've had in a long time. I know two people here in Kalgoorlie who have recently purchased new (and quite flash / expensive) 200 series because of the long waiting list for the 300 series. Both regret their decision, with one already looking to sell his and replace it with a Patrol. The other is seriously considering replacing his with a Defender - he has had a drive of my (2011) D4 and says he likes it much better than driving his new 200 series. The only drawback with the Defender is the lack of room in the back. My D4 is better in that respect, and a 200 series absolutely kills the Defender here.

[Eric SDV6SE]

The only drawback with the Defender is the lack of room in the back. My D4 is better in that respect, and a 200 series absolutely kills the Defender here.

Apparently the 130 defender is supposed to address that issue.

[scarry]

Simple example running around the traps last year was the $30k difference in price between the Y62 and LC200, if I recall correctly the the LC200 had to get to 400,000km to break even with the fuel costs/economy equation.
It was a John Cadogan piece I think and while it is now a bit out of date with respect to the numbers, the principal is still valid.]

Not really correct as the owner will get a fair swag of that $30K or whatever back when it’s sold.

More to the point will a V8 Diesel have good resale in 5 to 10 yrs?

I wouldn’t think so.

The 130:can’t come quick enough,for a touring wagon,the rear load area is so small in the 110.

As I have said before,going from a D4 for us,to the 110,just wasn’t on with that room issue.
But I bet the 130 when it eventually turns up has a huge price jump over the 110.

[Barraman]

2 year wait time for a new Defender? I think I am back to Square 1 !

[Eric SDV6SE]

Only a few dealer second hand ones around too...carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2021-land-rover-defender-110-d300-x-auto-awd-my21/OAG-AD-20703599)

Way too dear for a D300, but does have a lot of fruit...

[Briar]

2 year wait time for a new Defender? I think I am back to Square 1 !

I'd go for a Grenadier. Surely it's wait time wouldn't be 2 years?

[David J H]

I'd go for a Grenadier. Surely it's wait time wouldn't be 2 years?

Anyone not vertically challenged might want to sit in the driver's seat of the Grenadier to check for legroom. Right leg is OK but the floor comes up level with the brake pedal on the left and my foot had nowhere to go. I suspect the space under the floor may be required for a DPF but they would not allow a look under the bonnet.
LHD market would not be affected.

[Briar]

Anyone not vertically challenged might want to sit in the driver's seat of the Grenadier to check for legroom. Right leg is OK but the floor comes up level with the brake pedal on the left and my foot had nowhere to go. I suspect the space under the floor may be required for a DPF but they would not allow a look under the bonnet.
LHD market would not be affected.

Yeah, saw that as well David. I understand it's where the exhaust pipe is routed. This was discussed very well in Stefan Fischer's youtube latest review of the grenadier. He raised a few other pertinent issues as well. Worth a look. I'd hope some of his comments raised do get addressed in the actual production vehicle. A bit of a downer, but will see how things end up.

Ineos Grenadier - Why it's not the perfect 4wd! [2022] - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTDVWaLJfM8)

[shanegtr]

Well, the 300 could be out as an option for a while considering Toyota has now suspended orders. Of course theres always the getting one at current stupid used car prices option

[Briar]

FYI

INEOS Automotive have been working with the Australian Tax Office (ATO) on a Private Ruling exempting the Grenadier from Luxury Car Tax (LCT). The ATO has recognised that due to the Grenadier’s design, engineering and capability, it is not considered a Luxury Car for tax purposes and therefore all Wagon models, options and accessories are exempt from LCT. Our configurator has been updated to reflect this decision.