Question for owners of high km D4's

[LGM]

Folks,

I purchased my D4 HSE brand spanking new off the showroom floor in 2011, its now coming up to 320,000km on the clock and in its 12th year. Up until D4 I have never held onto a vehicle for so long. The D4 has always been a damned good ride. It has always been serviced to the LR 'arduous duty' cycle by a very, very good LR service agent.

The vehicle has been repaired back to the LR standard if there has been any issue. It has only let me down once when the brake light switch (FoMoCo part) basically collapsed and I had to be towed to the LR service agent for the 15 minute fix. That did not dent my confidence in the vehicle, however, I have wondered what is a reasonable life span for some components etc[bighmmm].

That has got me thinking if I should change out the D4 for something else. For those that have high Km D4's what are you folks thinking re your own vehicle?

So the question is, do I keep the D4 and know that I will at some stage spend a reasonable amount of loot on the D4 or do I change it out? According to my LR service agent my D4 is in really excellent nick!

I am torn between the two to be truthful.

LGM

[DiscoJeffster]

I can’t afford a Defender at this stage so for me, my 2010 3L D4 310,000km will be with me for another few years yet, probably until I can get into a secondhand Defender one day. As you say, they’re such a great and capable vehicle.

[BMKal]

I have a 2011 D4 with the 2.7 diesel. Purchased near new (demo with 1,000km on the clock) from Barbagallo. Was serviced by Barbagallo while I was working down in Perth, and by Goldfields Offroad since then, and is still in "as new" condition. Nowhere near the km's on the clock as yours though - mine has less than 170k on it. Has never let me down. One issue with a transmission / transfer calibration error after driving through some deep water a while back, was fixed by re-calibrating using GAP IID tool. Doubt if I'll be replacing it, but if I do, would either be with another low km D4 or another breed altogether. The only "new" Land Rover that might interest me is the Defender - but it is now well out of my price range.

[Plane Fixer]

I feel the same way about my D4 as it is the most comfortable vehicle I have ever owned. I am almost at 300,000k
It was bought new and I have always looked after it and has only been used on country trips as I do contract work. As I am a believer in preventative maintenance I had done at 270,000 both intake manifolds, oil pump, water pump, belts, oil cooler, coolant inlet manifold and starter.
Previously, due my own fault I had to have an exchange transfer box. The auto is serviced at about 70,000 and I had the mechatronic done at some point.
I changed all bags and shocks at 200,000 and a new Hitachi compressor at 250,000.
That is all I can think of at the moment, they are not a cheap car to run, but for our old bones the comfort and being so nice to drive makes it all worthwhile.

[PerthDisco]

Far happier reading than the ‘my 3.0 engine has blown’ thread.

[rambada]

My D4 is at a miserly 240,000km and still running so sweet. I too have been grazing 'what else' but nothing comes close. We service it regularly and proactively maintain it as our inde recommends.

The radar is watching the Defender (hopefully for used vehicles at a lot cheaper) and 1/2 an eye on the new Ford Everest. In the meantime, my faithful D4 gives me no reason to jump just yet.

[DiscoJeffster]

Well recently I’ve replaced all injectors, rear upper arms, front lower, coolant change, gearbox fluid (triple change with ZF fluid, about to do power steering, also a couple of years back I did all bottom end bearings, all the usual cooling system refresh, plus oil pump etc.

The drivetrain is quite clunky now with a decent on off throttle clunk. I’m told it’s normal for these, probably the front diff, but no interest to resolve from the Indy.

I feel like I’ve “invested” so much I’d better keep it

[Jpdv]

The thing is, if you've got one that isn't a lemon, there's very little else that hits so many sweet spots. I describe it to people as a 'swiss army knife' vehicle. There's very, very little else that will cruise in complete comfort at under 7.5 L/100km, but from stock can get places very few other vehicles can. If you can't fit something in the back, it won't fit in any other vehicle except a ute. And if relatives turn up, 2 or 3 clicks and lifts, and you can seat 7 in fair comfort. All of that, and whilst people like to knock the tech, it makes actually driving it some of the easiest I've ever done. The towing capability is second to none. And that press of a button up/down air suspension is pretty bloody sorted in the later D4s.

This capability/cost equation is why I've come back after a decade away. I paid less for a second hand 2016 vehicle than I would have done to option a landcruiser - and I intend to run it for at least a decade. Nothing comes close at the price point, which makes sensible preventative maintenance good value. There are always bad examples, but you can get that with any marque. It is only the second vehicle I've ever owned where I get a sense of pleasure every single time I go to start it - and the first was a Disco 3 back in the UK.

If it has a catastrophic failure at some point, I'll regretfully bin it if it ain't cost-effective to repair, but until then every time I use it is a pleasure. My target is at least half a million KMs.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I’ve always held onto cars for a decent amount of time and I’m a firm believer in preventative maintenance. My bus is at 221,000km and so far has not really let us down. Yes, a few expensive fixes (both turbos replaced within 12 months of each other) but other than that, the regular service and consumable items.

apart from the new Defender or a late model D4 there is nothing in a comparable spec level out there. Each time I look at cars like the DMax, patrol or LC, they are only now catching up with the tech we have been living with for the past decade.

I am aiming for 500,000km from my D4 but I doubt that without significant investment it will make it, so at one point I have to decide. My eye is drawn to the P400 defender as I have posted before, I think despite all their foibles, the LR marque has my vote.

[shanegtr]

I've got just over 400,000 on my 05 D3. To be honest most of the stuff that still comes up is not new or to be unexpected with the kms. There's all the common faults like soft suspension bushes that come around time and time again. Haven't had to do the wheel bearings again yet - the replacements have all outlived the originals. Probably going to need some front CV's soon as the last one I replaced a boot on was starting to show signs of wear during inspection. So far its doing ok, if anything major goes wrong with it then it will probably get scrapped and at this stage I'd be likely to update it to a newer D4. In all honestly mine only has to last 2 more years until my oldest gets his drivers licence and then I won't need the use of a 3rd row seat every day so that opens other options for vehicles up

[ATH]

After reading another thread on yet another well serviced D4 busting it's crankshaft, I got all despondent yet again. But this one has lifted my spirits yet again that just maybe our vehicle will keep going well for another couple of hundred kay at least.
It's done 112K at the mo and has always been serviced at 10K intervals. Things that have gone wrong: Bloody stupid park brake jammed on and fixed under warranty, battery replaced and more recently aircon compressor done and covered under Eric Extended warranty.
Not a good read after such low kays I think especially the aircon compressor replacement. Far too short a life.
Horror stories of those crankshaft failures frighten me but what to replace it with?
Ford or Tojo? Or stay with it with fingers crossed and hope I can post a good read story in a few years. :)
AlanH.

[Mtelizapete]

I have been thinking the same thing (replacing due to high ks), but cant find anything better than a D4 for the money

I have had three D4's, still have two.

Current ones are a 2009/10 TDV SE 3.0 and a 2015 TDV3.0.The other one was a 2014 TDV 3.0 which we traded in on a Sport. We don't have the Disco sport anymore.....traded that in on another D4!

The older one is at 320,000 and running well. Aside from normal items you would expect from a car that age (alternator, a/c compressor, bearings and control arms and bushes), nothing else has ever stopped it.

It hardly uses any oil and rides better and is more versatile than most other cars I have driven.

The newer one is even better (8 speed box) even with the lower kw engine. The older one is the 180kw version before they renamed it the SDV.

Both cars get serviced every 10k-15k kms at very good Land Rover specialists (not dealers), Have regular gearbox services and belts done.

Dont forget that many more people post about the problems they have (for good reason, that is the point of the forum) than posting just to say how happy they are with the car.



They also get driven at least 50ks a day 5 days and week and get a good working out every few weeks (pedal to the metal) to clean out the turbos etc.

[Graeme]

The splines on the gearbox o/p shaft and transfer case i/p shaft rely on the original assembly grease so I have just had the splines on my MY12 L322 (same TC as the D4) re-greased at 150K (TC R&R'd). Whilst adequate but rather dry grease remained and with no signs of spline wear, it was suggested that the grease wouldn't have lasted another 150K therefore would probably require new shafts on both boxes at around 300K. Worn splines will strip without warning immobilising the vehicle. If the TC has been removed for any reason then hopefully the special grease was renewed at the time. IMO 150K is about half way to requiring new TC o/p shaft seals so a good time to undertake this preventative maintenance.

[rar110]

My OP splines were bone dry on my L322 08 tdv8/6Hp26 at about 230,000km and stripped both OP and input gear for the transfer, $800 tow home. I ended up replacing both the trans and transfer with a low km used combo. I would recommend pulling the transfer box at 150k to service splines as Graeme has done.

[LGM]

Thanks to those who have taken the time to reply.....I am not alone!

A vehicle change out is certainly a quandary that I continue to grapple with. The comments re good preventative maintenance are so true and that is one of the things that I have, and continue to do, with my D4. Mind you some of the maintenance that is coming up later in the year was in part a prompt for the original question.

My D4 is coming up for its second timing belt replacement later in the year and there are a few other items that have me wanting to sort them out such as 'all' the coolant hoses, thermostat and couplings. The auto trans is something else in the back of my mind, not due to any problems other than my perspective on Km's and age.

Like a few others, the issue of an exploding motor really gives me the 'willies', but every time I hit the loud pedal the motor in my D4 responds smoothly and strongly and the smile pops back onto my face. None the less those experiences of others and the incessant chatter plants a very much unwanted seed!

If I were to replace the D4 then I don't think it would be with another D4.....maybe I would take a punt on a used D5? Or maybe a used Range Rover Vogue,....maybe I am dreaming just a little there! The idea of a used new model defender is a good one as well. However no 4 cylinder motors for me! My 3.2t caravan does have its down sides, and in most respects there is no real substitute for cubic capacity!

The issue is one of 'the devil you know vs the one you don't'.......as my service agent says, you know the vehicle's condition and what is reasonably expected. When you buy something used it is a bit of and educated guess as to what you might end up with. That said, he assisted us in the purchase (from others) of a very nice late model Freelander 2 for SWMBO.

That 'little man' still sits on my shoulder and keeps prodding me. My heart says change but my logic says sit tight!

I really, really hate that!

[ama45]

I had a D4 bought new in 2012 and I put 280K on the clock before it’s untimely end in 2017. Mechanically the D4 was excellent, with the only issue being a electronic handbrake. It wasn’t mechanical failure that stopped the D4, it was cattle on the road in the middle of the night at 100 km an hour which ended in a write off. I recall seeing dark shapes, then that oh bugger moment, then a loud bang. I recall the car stopping rather quickly, then silence. Both front windows came down automatically to let the airbag smoke out, both airbags deployed, and hazard lights came on automatically. The windscreen was smashed and the front engine area badly crumpled. Having walked away from that experience completely unhurt I couldn’t risk any other vehicle, so I’m a Landrover lifer! After the D4 I went for a 2012 Range Rover sport L320 with 70K on the clock. The Sport has been an excellent D4 replacement with an SDV6 over the TDV6. More power and comfort with same off road capabilities, but I miss the 7 seats and cavernous boot. I will clock over 200K today. Again, mechanically it has been excellent. I really think the key to longevity with these cars is good maintenance and spending the cash to replace things when they fail. I just replaced both rear air bags and the compressor which cost about 4K, but that’s what guys are spending on suspension upgrades every day on there utes and Toyota/Nissan equivalents.

There will always be the stories of those unexplained mechanical failures and catastrophes, but certainly my experience with these vehicles TDV/SD V6 engines has been nothing but joy. Like others in this chat I do look at where to go when this vehicle needs replacing but that is a really difficult question. Right now I’m thinking 500K is not a bad goal as there is nothing else out there even close to these vehicles.

[mowog]

My 2010 D4 3.0L has 255000klm on it I have owned it from new. I have been through all the common fixes. It has been serviced every 6 months.
This car has been great its never left us on the side of the road. It was stuck at home for a while with a dead KVM. That kind of triggered what we were going to do for the future.
We also own a 2008 Range Rover Vouge TDV8 it only has 115000 klm on it. This thing is just bloody awesome I love the engine and the way it drives.

Running two big Land Rovers just in normal maintenance is an expensive hobby so something had to give. I am 62 and I want to retire keeping two aging Land Rovers running on my retirement income will be a challenge...

So

A new Defender P400 S 110 was ordered and a 5 year service package will also happen this gives me known operating costs for 5 years after delivery

[Jon The Hat]

I have been thinking the same thing (replacing due to high ks), but cant find anything better than a D4 for the money

I have had three D4's, still have two.

Current ones are a 2009/10 TDV SE 3.0 and a 2015 TDV3.0.The other one was a 2014 TDV 3.0 which we traded in on a Sport. We don't have the Disco sport anymore.....traded that in on another D4!



This is interesting, I was thinking about a Discovery Sport as a second car... Maybe I should just buy another D4. My wife wants a white one!

[mowog]

This is interesting, I was thinking about a Discovery Sport as a second car... Maybe I should just buy another D4. My wife wants a white one!

I have a very nice 2008 L322 TDV8 for sale

[Mtelizapete]

This is interesting, I was thinking about a Discovery Sport as a second car... Maybe I should just buy another D4. My wife wants a white one!


Nothing wrong with the Disco Sport at all, just too small for our needs at the time. We need to be able to carry 3 metre long rolls of fabric, which you can do (just) in a D4.

The sport much lighter car than a D4 in many ways. Better economy, easier to park and we had no mech issues with it.

Never had the same "feeling" as a D4 though.

Sport is a good second car.

[DiscoJeffster]

Nothing wrong with the Disco Sport at all, just too small for our needs at the time. We need to be able to carry 3 metre long rolls of fabric, which you can do (just) in a D4.

The sport much lighter car than a D4 in many ways. Better economy, easier to park and we had no mech issues with it.

Never had the same "feeling" as a D4 though.

Sport is a good second car.

Drove a diesel 2016 HSE sport yesterday for my partner. Nice car and better features compared to the D4, smaller, nimble, not as solid feeling, and engine is definitely tougher than the 6 cylinder diesel. Perfectly matches her needs but I prefer the engine and driving position of the D4.

[Graeme]

Or maybe a used Range Rover VogueGet one with the 4.4 SDV8.

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

Similar to others on this thread - I've been pondering this question.
It's getting old (12+yrs), and done a few km's... Had a couple of issues early which were more related to eletronics than actual mechanical issues (Trans case 'alignment' diagnosed by LR dealer as stuffed TC, replaced under extended warranty).
Other than that:

serviced every 10k kms
gearbox oil done every 100k kms
timing belts done on schedule
LF wheel brg replaced (noisy) 180k kms
preventative replacement of alternator @ 200k kms
replaced suspension @ about 200k kms
overhauled Hitachi compressor @ 220k kms (no issues before or since)

Ahhhh, the park brake - had a couple of instances of major issues (it is a pita)... i rarely use it nowadays, and do my own adjustments according to Bodsy's Brake Bible...

Without doing any major investigation, my thoughts are:

I love my D4. Best, most capable, comfortable and practical 4WD I've ever owned or driven in, by a country mile.
I really don't like the look of the D5. The only one I sat in (demo when they were first released), they seemed much smaller inside, both side-to-side and boot space.
I really like the look of the new Defender. This is probably where my preference lies at this stage. But soooo many $$$$$$'s.
My plan is loosely to hope that some good 2nd hand Deefers become available at reasonable prices in a few years, and I'll move to one of them.


Good to hear so many happy stories. I wonder how many km's is reasonable to expect?
Seems to be quite a few around 300,000kms +...

Rob

[DiscoJeffster]

Good to hear so many happy stories. I wonder how many km's is reasonable to expect?
Seems to be quite a few around 300,000kms +...

Rob

I’m looking for 400,000-500,000km from mine. I’m at 310,000km.

[cripesamighty]

The D3's and D4's are not cheap cars, but preventative maintenance keeps them going. My D3 TDV6 just hit 545,000Km so they do get up there. A Tojo driving mate of mine saw a D3 that was touring near Adelaide with over 1 million Km on it. I think the record is in the UK with around 1.4 million km on an early D3, so hopefully the D4's should be ok for a few more Km's too!

[josh.huber]

I'm at 290 ish, and realistically they should go 500+ it'll never be structural failure, they are too heavy to be weak.
If you can do the work yourself.. Suspension and servicing is cheap enough.
I'm ready for injectors and a few other items.. But at ten years even mums Camry has needed a new inlet manifold.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Clocked 222000km today, running like a Swiss watch. Rear drivers side lock mechanism has failed, handle works as per normal, just doesn't lock the door. Weird, as I thought the drivers door would fail first....

[DiscoJeffster]

Clocked 222000km today, running like a Swiss watch. Rear drivers side lock mechanism has failed, handle works as per normal, just doesn't lock the door. Weird, as I thought the drivers door would fail first....

Such a baby. Nearly 100,000km ahead of you. It’s ok young padawan. We’re here for you.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Such a baby. Nearly 100,000km ahead of you. It’s ok young padawan. We’re here for you.

Thank you oh Master DJ gon Jin, I have yet much to learn, however the force is strong in my D4

[Arapiles]

My 2014 D4 is at 115,000 kms - it really only gets used for country trips and short runs around town - so (touch wood) I expect we'll have it for quite a while yet.

The only issue we've had with it was a failed door actuator, just out of warranty.

It will most likely be replaced with a new Defender.

I have been thinking of buying a low ks 2015 or 2016 D4 to stick in the shed, as there's really not anything like them around, other than the new Defender.

[LGM]

So here I was wondering what I should do about my D4 keep it or move it on.....well I guess I must have been thinking out aloud and the D4 made that decision for me.

It is coming up for its second timing belt towards the end of this year along with the sundry items that you do when that sort of work is being carried out so I was facing a spend of around $3k for my service agent to do the stuff I wanted done.

That was until I was on the way back from Perth last Thursday afternoon. I had done approximately 700km for the day when the Red Triangle popped up on the dash and the Restricted Performance warning lit up. This was right on 5pm. I was around 30km from home and the car was still travelling quite well just with a very much reduced accelerating / overtaking capability.

So I continued on my way home and on the way rang my LR service agent and let them know I would see them in the morning. The following day I headed of to work and to drop the D4 to the service agent. The warning and the reduced performance was still glaring at me. The 60km drive to work was not that bad just poor acceleration, but it could maintain 110km/h. On dropping the D4 off I went to work and did not hear from the service agent until the afternoon when I was told the drivers side intake manifold was cracked.

So after 322,000km the D4 has suffered its first major failure.[bigsad]

Now, what to do![bighmmm]

After much discussion and consideration of possible replacements with SWMBO and exploration of options with the LR service agent I have made the call to replace both intake manifolds, do the timing belts, replace all coolant lines and inlets / outlets, fix a weep in the engine rear main seal, replace the oil level sensor in the sump as a precaution, etc. etc.

The D4 is still with me until the parts can be amassed and the work done in a couple of weeks time. Oh and I will be looking to damage the bank account just a little.[bawl]

So my D4 has called the shots and will now remain with us until it literally falls apart or I win Lotto!

[DiscoJeffster]

So here I was wondering what I should do about my D4 keep it or move it on.....well I guess I must have been thinking out aloud and the D4 made that decision for me.

It is coming up for its second timing belt towards the end of this year along with the sundry items that you do when that sort of work is being carried out so I was facing a spend of around $3k for my service agent to do the stuff I wanted done.

That was until I was on the way back from Perth last Thursday afternoon. I had done approximately 700km for the day when the Red Triangle popped up on the dash and the Restricted Performance warning lit up. This was right on 5pm. I was around 30km from home and the car was still travelling quite well just with a very much reduced accelerating / overtaking capability.

So I continued on my way home and on the way rang my LR service agent and let them know I would see them in the morning. The following day I headed of to work and to drop the D4 to the service agent. The warning and the reduced performance was still glaring at me. The 60km drive to work was not that bad just poor acceleration, but it could maintain 110km/h. On dropping the D4 off I went to work and did not hear from the service agent until the afternoon when I was told the drivers side intake manifold was cracked.

So after 322,000km the D4 has suffered its first major failure.[bigsad]

Now, what to do![bighmmm]

After much discussion and consideration of possible replacements with SWMBO and exploration of options with the LR service agent I have made the call to replace both intake manifolds, do the timing belts, replace all coolant lines and inlets / outlets, fix a weep in the engine rear main seal, replace the oil level sensor in the sump as a precaution, etc. etc.

The D4 is still with me until the parts can be amassed and the work done in a couple of weeks time. Oh and I will be looking to damage the bank account just a little.[bawl]

So my D4 has called the shots and will now remain with us until it literally falls apart or I win Lotto!

This is great news. They have their foibles but they’re such a great car. Good luck!

[Eric SDV6SE]

If that's it after >300k km you have done very very well.

[veebs]

I changed the intakes at half those kilometers! I think she has served very well!

[Jeffoir]

Hi LGM,
I have PM'd you.

[Tombie]

I’m doing a mid-life suspension overhaul, cooling system and full service this month.

No intention to keep throwing money at new vehicles when this one keeps on doing things so damn well.

Tax breaks etc are just excuses for a new vehicle - I have saved so much by not upgrading and just properly maintaining - the alternatives just don’t add up in the real world.

[DiscoJeffster]

I’m doing a mid-life suspension overhaul, cooling system and full service this month.

No intention to keep throwing money at new vehicles when this one keeps on doing things so damn well.

Tax breaks etc are just excuses for a new vehicle - I have saved so much by not upgrading and just properly maintaining - the alternatives just don’t add up in the real world.

I love the new Deefer but I’m not in the financial position to stump up the cash for the equivalent. I don’t begrudge those that can, but even better, my car still gives me so many smiles as is.

I just wish I could fix the driveline clunk, but between wear in the gearbox, transfer case and diffs, in think it all adds up. Still, minor gripe.

[LGM]

If that's it after >300k km you have done very very well.

I reckon so!

As with all things, a little perspective is required.......11 years of pretty good motoring is not to be sneezed at![smilebigeye]

[Tikka7mm08]

Got a 2013 SDV6 HSE with 23k on the clock and now has over 205k on it. Been wife's truck with kids but 2 of 3 now left home (but no net saving realised). Would like a new truck perhaps dare I say it a Stelvio but the D4 has been awesome with crawl mode only once due to an accelerator sensor. All hot k's and going in for the belts nex week... 3.3k body off job apparently. I would love to have it as truck to accessorise for offroad.

[LGM]

If that's it after >300k km you have done very very well. All with the able assistance of an excellent LR service agent who has always been focused on outcomes that not only work for themselves but also keep the customer happy and returning. :ohyes:

[gavinwibrow]

All with the able assistance of an excellent LR service agent who has always been focused on outcomes that not only work for themselves but also keep the customer happy and returning. :ohyes:


Would that perchance be Steve at Whyatts in Geraldton?

[LGM]

Would that perchance be Steve at Whyatts in Geraldton?

Absolutely

[Eric SDV6SE]

Can't fault Wyatt's, know their stuff and good old fashioned service too.

[mowog]

I brought my 2010 D4 3L new in 2010 I am just short of 260000klm. The car has needed fixes along the way most of the common things as well servicing every 6 months and regular gearbox services. The last gearbox service was a torque converter change.

I had been thinking about what next and it was never going to be a Discovery 5 I never liked them. I decided on a new Defender I have a P400 S 110 on order now which I currently don't have the money to pay for (I do have a plan) I didn't go for a D300 as you can't get them in an S 110 which I find odd and our average weekly running would seen us possibly have DPF issues. So the new Defender is a year away.

I have sold my 2008 TDV8 L322 that goes to its new home this week and I will miss that car. The Discovery 4 we have one trip to do in June and then it will be sold. It has honestly been a great car with some frustrations but a pure joy to drive. That leaves us with an R56 MINI Cooper S until the Defender arrives.

[LGM]

Can't fault Wyatt's, know their stuff and good old fashioned service too.

So there sits my D$ having its mid life crisis / rebirthday.....

My bank manager (is there any such a thing nowadays) is laughing at my plummeting reserves. [bawl]

Not sure what I am doing wrong but getting my pictures the right way around seems to be a skill that I don't posses.[bighmmm]

[Tombie]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220527/7eee2dadd10980f57c99d17a98610397.jpg
Here you go

[PerthDisco]

So there sits my D$ having its mid life crisis / rebirthday.....

My bank manager (is there any such a thing nowadays) is laughing at my plummeting reserves. [bawl]

Not sure what I am doing wrong but getting my pictures the right way around seems to be a skill that I don't posses.[bighmmm]

Can we comment and critique the proposed work list?

[Jpdv]

Jesus - I'm having a panic attack just looking at that... The problem is, with the body off, it makes sense to get all those little jobs done. But dear Lord, that'll cost...

[LGM]

Jesus - I'm having a panic attack just looking at that... The problem is, with the body off, it makes sense to get all those little jobs done. But dear Lord, that'll cost...

So I was due to have the timing belts replaced along with the oil pump......then I wanted all the hoses including the engine block inlet / outlet replaced......add to that the right bank intake manifold that had crapped itself....so whilst we are doing that we may as well do the left one at the same time.....there was also a minor oil weep at the front of the sump.....so lets fix that....sump off.....so lets replace the oil level sensor unit just to be on the safe side......all this is easier with the body off.....so off it came only to find the crossover pipe at the rear of the motor was blowing....so lets replace that while we are here.....easier with the engine out.....no worries, no extra charge to me......so with the engine out we can see the rear main has a very slight weep as well....lets sort that out too....and so it goes![tonguewink]

It is fair to say that, at first, I was a bit taken aback. But lets draw a breath and put some perspective on this.

I was thinking about changing the vehicle out, but when push came to shove, I would have had to lay out somewhere around $50 to $60k mark to get into a later model equivalent vehicle and remember that it is not a new vehicle we are talking about. That 'deal' could either be fantastic or it could be a nightmare ....used vehicles can be a bit of pot luck! :unsure:

My D4 has done 322,000km over 11 years of ownership since brand spanking new. Now I am hoping it will last another 11 years, by which time my need for a vehicle of this size will no doubt have reduced. My outlay for all the work being performed is around the $13k mark and will give me the confidence to continue to use the vehicle well into the future. Mind you the auto trans might need to be rebuilt at some stage but at this time its doing the job just fine.

So by my reckoning I am way better of rebirthing what, is to my way of thinking, a terrific vehicle. [bigsmile1]

This work is being done by my trusted LR service agent that have been very careful to explain all the issues and costs and options before we did anything! I should have my D4 back with me by the end of next week ready for the next set of travelling adventures!

[LGM]

Can we comment and critique the proposed work list?

See my previous post that covers the main jobs being done.

[DiscoJeffster]

While I was doing similar work, I had my indy replace the main and con rod bearings. We found the crank thrust bearings were worn to double tolerance. That has given me confidence (or hope) that I’ll get many more years from it.

[Jpdv]

I was thinking about changing the vehicle out, but when push came to shove, I would have had to lay out somewhere around $50 to $60k mark to get into a later model equivalent vehicle and remember that it is not a new vehicle we are talking about. That 'deal' could either be fantastic or it could be a nightmare ....used vehicles can be a bit of pot luck! :unsure:

My D4 has done 322,000km over 11 years of ownership since brand spanking new. Now I am hoping it will last another 11 years, by which time my need for a vehicle of this size will no doubt have reduced. My outlay for all the work being performed is around the $13k mark and will give me the confidence to continue to use the vehicle well into the future. Mind you the auto trans might need to be rebuilt at some stage but at this time its doing the job just fine.

So by my reckoning I am way better of rebirthing what, is to my way of thinking, a terrific vehicle.

Exactly... I aim to keep 'routine' costs as low as I can by careful sourcing, and doing the 'interim' oil and filter services myself, but then every once in a while you hit a big service. Spreading the load across that sort of mileage, and looking at the cost of an equivalent replacement vehicle, you're ahead financially - and your point about the risks of a 'new' second-hand vehicle is spot on. It hurts, but the alternative is not necessarily better if the vehicle is meeting your needs...

[PerthDisco]

I’m surprised that no one yet makes an aftermarket silicone hose coolant pipe set for D3 or D4. Would be a useful update.

[BradC]

I’m surprised that no one yet makes an aftermarket silicone hose coolant pipe set for D3 or D4. Would be a useful update.

Would it? Cooling system hoses are pretty much the one element I don't recall anyone ever having an issue with. I had a pin-hole in my EGR intake hose, but that was caused by a previous mechanic using a ill-placed worm-drive clamp on there.

Plenty of other parts of the cooling system fail, but I don't recall anyone mentioning losing a hose.

[PerthDisco]

Would it? Cooling system hoses are pretty much the one element I don't recall anyone ever having an issue with. I had a pin-hole in my EGR intake hose, but that was caused by a previous mechanic using a ill-placed worm-drive clamp on there.

Plenty of other parts of the cooling system fail, but I don't recall anyone mentioning losing a hose.

Agree but it would nice to have an economic high quality replacement for these things as how long is too long? Same for radiator you rarely hear of a failure. A Mishimoto all aluminium one would be nice if they did one.

[LGM]

Would it? Cooling system hoses are pretty much the one element I don't recall anyone ever having an issue with. I had a pin-hole in my EGR intake hose, but that was caused by a previous mechanic using a ill-placed worm-drive clamp on there.

Plenty of other parts of the cooling system fail, but I don't recall anyone mentioning losing a hose.

My service agent tells me that they have not replaced a D4 hose.......some D3 hoses are in question though. That said, the hoses on my vehicle seem to be in pretty good nick. None the less I thought that 11 years and 300,000 plus kms is pretty good so I opted for a change out even though they are expensive and it was not suggested to me, in my discussions with the service agent.

I would rather not be the crash test dummy for hose longevity.

[BradC]

My service agent tells me that they have not replaced a D4 hose.......some D3 hoses are in question though. That said, the hoses on my vehicle seem to be in pretty good nick. None the less I thought that 11 years and 300,000 plus kms is pretty good so I opted for a change out even though they are expensive and it was not suggested to me, in my discussions with the service agent.

I would rather not be the crash test dummy for hose longevity.

Not disputing that, and frankly if I were in the same situation I'd do the same thing. I'll probably do mine in the next couple of years just because they're approaching 15 and on other cars I generally do them at 7. I was more talking about the viability or reason for creating an aftermarket silicone hose set.

Frankly if there was an aftermarket set, I'd probably still opt for the originals at twice the cost purely because they're a known quality. With the Volvos, I always buy genuine Volvo hoses at 3 times the price of the aftermarkets, purely because they last at least 3 times as long and it's several orders of magnitude cheaper than a cooked motor.

[Bulletman]

Agree but it would nice to have an economic high quality replacement for these things as how long is too long? Same for radiator you rarely hear of a failure. A Mishimoto all aluminium one would be nice if they did one.
I replaced mine with a nissens one from AF and the price delivered was not expensive, after 14 yrs of the original in the tropics I thought a replacement was a good option. You can clean out the I/C doing the change over which I found was full of oil. It's a cheap but effective change if you can order from the uk and change yourself.
Cheers Bulletman

[Tombie]

Agree but it would nice to have an economic high quality replacement for these things as how long is too long? Same for radiator you rarely hear of a failure. A Mishimoto all aluminium one would be nice if they did one.

All aluminium construction is more susceptible to vibration in offroad use though and often leads to a point of failure.

Silicone hoses used in coolant applications use a thin layer internally to prevent reaction with coolant - another at risk failure point to be aware of.

Sometimes the old school is the best choice.

[Discodicky]

Agree but it would nice to have an economic high quality replacement for these things as how long is too long? Same for radiator you rarely hear of a failure. A Mishimoto all aluminium one would be nice if they did one.

I'm not sold on aluminium radiators. A few years ago I built a very fast Jaguar Mk2 3.8 litre which was as quick/quicker than an E-type up to 100 mph, and fitted an aluminium radiator (triple row).
I believe it was Chinese, beautifully made, however the top outlet was slightly incorrect shape and I had to modify the top radiator hose.

However I noted that after sitting for say, longer than an hour or more, the top tank was still very hot, which led me to realise it didn't dissipate the heat nearly as quickly (efficiently??) as the original 2 row copper core type.
The engine also ran around 5 deg hotter with the ally rad at low speeds (ie, low air flow thru rad) which I confirmed with a master temp gauge.

So I went back to the original unit which was of course several Kg heavier but no other disadvantage.

[PerthDisco]

I'm not sold on aluminium radiators. A few years ago I built a very fast Jaguar Mk2 3.8 litre which was as quick/quicker than an E-type up to 100 mph, and fitted an aluminium radiator (triple row).
I believe it was Chinese, beautifully made, however the top outlet was slightly incorrect shape and I had to modify the top radiator hose.

However I noted that after sitting for say, longer than an hour or more, the top tank was still very hot, which led me to realise it didn't dissipate the heat nearly as quickly (efficiently??) as the original 2 row copper core type.
The engine also ran around 5 deg hotter with the ally rad at low speeds (ie, low air flow thru rad) which I confirmed with a master temp gauge.

So I went back to the original unit which was of course several Kg heavier but no other disadvantage.

I checked and AF sell replacement radiators at a very reasonable price but don’t seem to carry complete hose sets anymore.

[Tombie]

I'm not sold on aluminium radiators. A few years ago I built a very fast Jaguar Mk2 3.8 litre which was as quick/quicker than an E-type up to 100 mph, and fitted an aluminium radiator (triple row).
I believe it was Chinese, beautifully made, however the top outlet was slightly incorrect shape and I had to modify the top radiator hose.

However I noted that after sitting for say, longer than an hour or more, the top tank was still very hot, which led me to realise it didn't dissipate the heat nearly as quickly (efficiently??) as the original 2 row copper core type.
The engine also ran around 5 deg hotter with the ally rad at low speeds (ie, low air flow thru rad) which I confirmed with a master temp gauge.

So I went back to the original unit which was of course several Kg heavier but no other disadvantage.

There’s radiators and there’s radiators.

Flow, core design, fin profile etc all play a part. Sounds like the replacement wasn’t as good in a few of these aspects.

There was a test done a while back, and whilst it seems counter intuitive- all other factors being equal - alloy dissipates heat better.

Mainly because whilst the core is copper, the solder etc is not and retards heat dissipation.

[scarry]

There’s radiators and there’s radiators.

Flow, core design, fin profile etc all play a part. Sounds like the replacement wasn’t as good in a few of these aspects.

There was a test done a while back, and whilst it seems counter intuitive- all other factors being equal - alloy dissipates heat better.

Mainly because whilst the core is copper, the solder etc is not and retards heat dissipation.


Copper is better at conducting heat than aluminum, but aluminum is able to radiate the heat into the air better than copper because of its lower density.

Aluminium is also lighter and cheaper,that is probably the reason most fluid coolers(oil,coolant,etc) and intercoolers in auto use these days are alloy.

[Bulletman]

I checked and AF sell replacement radiators at a very reasonable price but don’t seem to carry complete hose sets anymore.

I purchased a nissens radiator from AF and the cost was very good especially with freight, if you go down that road make sure you get the pins that hold the I/C to the rad as they break very easily on removal, plus the rubbers and the pins that hold the top in place, they dont come as part of the radiator. Also the thermostat housing on the later tdv6 model D3 is different to the earlier D3, the thermostat housing has 1 extra hose tail.
Think early is 5 and later is 6 or its 6 and 7 I cant remember but make sure you check vin numbers as they are different... yes I learnt the hard way. The change over is pretty straightforward.

Cheers Bulletman

[Tombie]

Copper is better at conducting heat than aluminum, but aluminum is able to radiate the heat into the air better than copper because of its lower density.

Aluminium is also lighter and cheaper,that is probably the reason most fluid coolers(oil,coolant,etc) and intercoolers in auto use these days are alloy.

Knew someone would go there ;)

Copper is, the solder holding everything together isn’t…. And actually insulates reducing efficiency.

It also plays nicer in seaside areas and salted roads.

[LGM]

So the work continues on my D4 with the engine out and a number of the bits and pieces replaced including the offending intake manifold that started this off.
Checking the crankshaft end play (thrust bearing wear) was just done as one of the checks to see how the motor was 'travelling' after 320,000+km. I was lucky enough to be present. Nice to note that it was right in the middle of the LR spec.
Without a total strip down, and as much as one could tell, things looked to be O.K. (touch a very large piece of wood).
What I liked was the very careful way in which the work was progressing with constant communication with myself. I have to say I am looking forwards to the work being completed as I seem to be suffering D4 withdrawal.
Never mind SWMBO not being too pleased that I am monopolising her 2014 Freelander2. Now that is a nippy little truck for which I have a whole new appreciation!
The attached pictures speak for themselves. Ravindra, the mechanic (tech) doing the work has certainly been keen to discuss the work and show me the process and progress.

[DiscoJeffster]

Nice. Mine was twice the factory max spec, hence why I agreed to redo the bearings. That was at 270k km. I’m now at 317k km.

[LGM]

Nice. Mine was twice the factory max spec, hence why I agreed to redo the bearings. That was at 270k km. I’m now at 317k km.

I was prepared to head down a similar path to your good self if the news was not good. Luckily for me that is not how things turned out.

[Jpdv]

Ravindra, the mechanic (tech) doing the work has certainly been keen to discuss the work and show me the process and progress.

Any mechanic who welcomes dialogue and communicates happily is probably a keeper... I'm always wary when they try to 'shut you out'... It looks like you're going to have both peace of mind and a refreshed car!

[LGM]

After 12 days of absence I have my serviced, repaired & refreshed D4 back in the motoring fold!

I am grateful to the good folks at Whyatts Land Rover in Geraldton for their efforts and works not to mention their inclusive process. I must admit I gulped just a tad when I was discussing potential costs of all the bits I wanted replaced, never mind their suggestions which did not help my budget at all. No matter, they were on the money with their thoughts and always gave me options. In the end I have spent a bit north of $14k. You can buy another vehicle for that price, some folks have suggested to me. To which I respond maybe so, but not one that will haul my 3.3t caravan all day long with SWMBO and myself in commensurate comfort.

At the end of the day the comments of others matters naught.....all that counts is I am pleased!

A parting pic with Shane (Whyatts Service Manager and all round good bloke) and Ravindra (Whyatts quiet but very thorough Tech) who did all the work on my 'yuppy truck' that they are standing next to!

Its fair to say that I am one happy camper!