food for thought - 5W-30 vis 5W-40 engine oil

[PeterOZ]

just watched the LR Time latest video on engine oil where Christian suggests using 5W-40 oil instead of the 5W-30.

I had been using Castrol Magnatec Professional A5 5W-30 ACEA A5/B5, A1/B1 however as LR time points out this A5 oil not not quite the spec LR designed the engine to being the A3/B3 spec.

Now I know very little (nothing) of oils and only stating what I watched.

I did a check of the Castrol website it is points you to the oil in the LR time video, a magnatec 5W-30 A5

Interestingly when I checked the Penrite website oil finder it stated HPR Diesel 5 5W-40 (Semi Syn) & "... and where ACEA A3/B3 (https://penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-centre/Specifications/194/acea-service-classifications/364) ... is recommended"

Anyone else using this Penrite oil?

Yup my engine is making exactly the same tick tick noise as Vera's. I'm inclined to do a oil & filter change and use the Penrite even though I did my last change only a month ago.

Thoughts?

[BradC]

Thoughts?

Only that this has been done to death many times with no resolution. Personally I'm running Penrite 5w-40 Enviro+ Full syn because I can buy it everywhere reliably, it's DPF safe and every independent mechanic I've asked has said they use an Xw-40. I'm due another 20L drum, so now I no longer have the DPF it'll be a toss up between that and the HPR5 depending on which has the best sale price.

[PeterOZ]

Only that this has been done to death many times with no resolution. Personally I'm running Penrite 5w-40 Enviro+ Full syn because I can buy it everywhere reliably, it's DPF safe and every independent mechanic I've asked has said they use an Xw-40. I'm due another 20L drum, so now I no longer have the DPF it'll be a toss up between that and the HPR5 depending on which has the best sale price.

The HPR 5 is what I am thinking for mine as obviously mine does not have a DPF.

[BradC]

The HPR 5 is what I am thinking for mine as obviously mine does not have a DPF.

I'd pick the HPR 5 full syn rather than the Diesel version, but there's no fact or logic underlying that decision other than an unqualified "full syn" > "semi syn".
Same as I could have used the Diesel Enviro+ semi-syn variant when it had a DPF.

[DiscoJeffster]

I’ve been running this for a long time now, changed every 10,000km

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220418/9e5248f77a465ab3ea3eaff08fbe3d91.jpg

[incisor]

another hpr5 5w-40 penrite user in my 2.7tdv6

[RichardK]

I am the same as BradC and have been using that for some years, recommended by my Indie.
Cheers
RichardK

[jwb]

I'm running the Castrol A5 in my 2013 3.0L it was the recommended one on the Castrol site but I just checked and it is now...

CASTROL EDGE 0W-30 C2BEST
Castrol EDGE 0W-30 C2 is an advanced full synthetic engine oil suitable for use in automotive petrol and diesel engines where the manufacturer recomends an ACEA C2 0W-30 lubricant.




LIke the last few words - I haven't seen anywhere LR recommends a 0W-30 but maybe I've missed it.

Might move to the Penrite 5W-40 then I can have one oil across the D2 and Navara as well.

[PerthDisco]

I’ve been running this for a long time now, changed every 10,000km

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220418/9e5248f77a465ab3ea3eaff08fbe3d91.jpg

Switched to HPR when SCA said they weren’t getting the Castrol A5 anymore.

[101RRS]

So what is wrong with the specified grade of oil - LR specified it for a reason or is it that because you see something on social media it must be true.

[Jpdv]

So what is wrong with the specified grade of oil - LR specified it for a reason or is it that because you see something on social media it must be true.


But they also specify 24k service intervals and a sealed for life transmission... So whilst their specifications may be a good starting point, they're always worth validating...

[PeterOZ]

So what is wrong with the specified grade of oil - LR specified it for a reason or is it that because you see something on social media it must be true.

it has been superseded is why. IF you can find the original spec oil then let everyone know about it mate.

[trout1105]

So what is wrong with the specified grade of oil - LR specified it for a reason or is it that because you see something on social media it must be true.

Cost and availability is the reason why[thumbsupbig]

[coopers1969]

i have been using the Penrite enviro + 5w/30 C1 full syn in my 3 litre 2010 no DPF. get 7 litres on sale for about 63 dollars. was using castrol professional C1 previously. change every 10K all going well so far.

[101RRS]

But they also specify a sealed for life transmission...

Not true - there is nowhere in general LR service documentation that specifies the transmission is sealed for life - an old wives tale.

LR documentation specify the change interval to be 10 years or 250,000km for the 6 speed - and earlier for arduous use which includes commuting use.

Now this is far to long but is not sealed for life.

[101RRS]

it has been superseded is why. IF you can find the original spec oil then let everyone know about it mate.

I can find full syn 5W30 everywhere.

[Jpdv]

Not true - there is nowhere in general LR service documentation that specifies the transmission is sealed for life - an old wives tale.

LR documentation specify the change interval to be 10 years or 250,000km for the 6 speed - and earlier for arduous use which includes commuting use.

Now this is far to long but is not sealed for life.

That's fascinating, and I'm grateful for the info. But you are still proving my point with your own words... If 'Now this is far too long' is applicable to a LR documentation specification (as you state), then we can reasonably question whether they have got their oil recommendation right too, as opposed to your explicit dismissal of the original poster...

I don't know the answer in either case, but you can't have it both ways - either LR documentation is gospel, or it isn't - you don't get to pick and choose which bits are unarguable in order to suit your opinion. One of the values of a forum like this is fact checking, and asking fair questions. Dogmatic dismissal doesn't help.

[Eric SDV6SE]

i have been using the Penrite enviro + 5w/30 C1 full syn in my 3 litre 2010 no DPF. get 7 litres on sale for about 63 dollars. was using castrol professional C1 previously. change every 10K all going well so far.

Penrite C4 enviro+ 5W30 for the past 100,000km or so, changed every 10,000km.

[shanegtr]

The LR oil recommendation sways to the fuel economy side for specs. My belief is there are better oils out there on the market that offer better wear protection and worse fuel economy, but they are not LR spec.

[101RRS]

That's fascinating, and I'm grateful for the info. But you are still proving my point with your own words... If 'Now this is far too long' is applicable to a LR documentation specification (as you state), then we can reasonably question whether they have got their oil recommendation right too, as opposed to your explicit dismissal of the original poster...

I don't know the answer in either case, but you can't have it both ways - either LR documentation is gospel, or it isn't - you don't get to pick and choose which bits are unarguable in order to suit your opinion. One of the values of a forum like this is fact checking, and asking fair questions. Dogmatic dismissal doesn't help.

Not arguing anything or trying to have anything both ways other than to dispute this old wives tale that LR claims the gearbox is sealed for life when they make no such claims - it is in the service schedule.

[DiscoDB]

Not arguing anything or trying to have anything both ways other than to dispute this old wives tale that LR claims the gearbox is sealed for life when they make no such claims - it is in the service schedule.

I guess proof you shouldn’t believe everything you read on social media. LR did propagate this claim.

The D3 owners hand book did state the gearbox is “Filled for life”. The factory service schedule then clarified that “life” meant every 240,000kms which - coincidently - is probably the life you can expect if you never service the gearbox properly. This is the equivalent of a politician saying they “misspoke”.

BMW also claimed the same with the same gearbox, even going so far as to put a sticker on the gearbox saying this as well. At the time this was all about reducing the perception of the high servicing costs for these vehicles by claiming the gearbox was filled for life (and hence not included in the servicing costs when leased from new).

It was ZF that confirmed that the gearbox oil should be changed every 80-120,000kms.

So yes - don’t believe everything LR says you should do, and do listen to the experts on AULRO.

For warm to hot climates - I definitely believe LR got the engine oil spec wrong - as it was based on improving fuel economy at the expense of bearing life. It was the same reason for why they claimed the transmission was filled for life - to make small improvements in the running costs (in the first 5-10 years).

I prefer to follow Citreon’s recommendation to use 5w-40 B3 or B4 oil, which also suits that worn engines can benefit from slightly thicker oil. Citroen only recommend 5w-30 B5 oil for cold climates.

[DiscoDB]

The latest LR Time video just confirmed that Christian made a mistake using the FAI aftermarket oil pump. His own testing when rebuilding Fabian’s 2.7 last year showed this pump performed not much better than the worn original oil pump he previously removed from Vera’s D3.

The fact that a new aftermarket oil pump is not achieving minimum oil pressure using the LR spec oil shows why you must use a genuine Ford pump. Plus why it is also good to increase the oil viscosity to 5w-40 on a worn engine.

[101RRS]

The D3 owners hand book did state the gearbox is “Filled for life”. The factory service schedule then clarified that “life” meant every 240,000kms

My handbook does not say anything about sealed for life and the factory service schedule does not clarify anything - it simply states the service interval with a reduction in the interval for "arduous" use which they give examples. Same for the workshop manual.

[trout1105]

My handbook does not say anything about sealed for life and the factory service schedule does not clarify anything - it simply states the service interval with a reduction in the interval for "arduous" use which they give examples. Same for the workshop manual.

So what is the service interval for "arduous use" according to the JLR scripture?
250 thousand K's service interval is just a sales pitch even for a Tourak tourer let alone a 4WD or tow tug.
It is little wonder why used discos have little resale value when they have been driven into the ground without a decent service regime.

[PeterOZ]

I can find full syn 5W30 everywhere.

not to the ACEA grade required.

ACEA A3/B3 (https://penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-centre/Specifications/194/acea-service-classifications/364) ...

[101RRS]

not to the ACEA grade required.

ACEA A3/B3 (https://penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-centre/Specifications/194/acea-service-classifications/364) ...

And you can get it in 5w-40??

[DiscoDB]

My handbook does not say anything about sealed for life and the factory service schedule does not clarify anything - it simply states the service interval with a reduction in the interval for "arduous" use which they give examples. Same for the workshop manual.

Clearly you don’t own a D3. From the maintenance section of the D3 owners handbook:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220419/aa71810ec55da49936858ef5900cde34.jpg

[DiscoDB]

Christian actually makes an incorrect statement when he says B5 oil should not be used because this was not around when the 2.7TDV6 was designed.

The actual spec at the time was Ford Spec WSS-M2C913-B which called for A1/B1 which is a low HTHS shear oil. This spec was then made obsolete and replaced by A5/B5 which has the same HTHS properties as A1/B1. Ford also superseded 913B with 913C which changes from A1/B1 to A5/B5 and claim this to be backward compatible with 913B.

That is Ford has always specified the low HTHS oil for this engine - but PSA and even LR have not been as strict on this.

In fact the D3 owners manual does make a very clear statement that if you can not get the Ford spec oil, you must use an oil meeting the A3/B3 spec (that is they don’t call for A1/B1 as the fall back). So should be no concern with using A3/B3 (or even A3/B4 which is also compatible with A3/B3).

The only real debate is 5w-30 vs 5w-40 which is a question of the intended operating temperature range, and how much bearing clearance you now have.

[Gravy]

Probably this has no credibility however I will throw it out there.

I am new to D4 TD6 ownership purchasing a vehicle with 120K on the clock with little documented service history.

The vehicle came with many issues one being a leaking oil cooler. After cooler replacement I exchanged the engine oil using Penrite Synthetic 5W-40 because I had it to hand from a Volvo XC60 I traded to buy the Disco.

Because I am shortly going to the Mainland towing a caravan I exchanged the engine oil although it had only been in the vehicle for 3000Ks.

I used Penrite Synthetic 5W-30 for the oil change. I am observing the vehicle appears to run smoother and start easier since I have done this. We are not into a Tassie winter yet but its approaching swiftly with morning temperatures as low as 4 degrees.

Maybe all a case of imagination running wild, but this is the oil grade LR recommends.

[Jpdv]

OK, DiscoD8 has nailed it. It's definitely not an old wive's tale... Neither for the 6 speed in the D3, or the 8 speed in the later D4s. Here's the page from the D4 workshop manual:

178274

First sentence under 'description'... "Normal maintenance: Filled for Life".

On the next page:

178275

So , whilst we can all split hairs about normal maint etc, the truth is that:

a) LR have indeed stated, both to the customer and to the workshop/dealer, that the ZF auto transmissions are filled for life, for both D3 and D4 models.

b) Accordingly, one can reasonably decide to check whether other LR recommended practices, such as selection of grade of oil, are correct - and they may not be...

The best we can all do is make as informed a decision as possible, based on as much information as we can establish to be fact, not opinion - which is where great forums and frank discussion like this are brilliant.

[DiscoDB]

Same statement in the D3 maintenance manual as well.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220419/e287985b65e82eefc9c2ba92f20e78f0.jpg

What is appalling about LR’s claim that the 6HP and 8HP gearboxes are designed to be maintenance free is ZF have never claimed this to be the case. ZF have always stood by the gearboxes need to have oil changes every 80-120K and provide service kits for this.

ZF even note that “sporty driving” can shorten the oil life due to high temps. Presumably LR consider towing and sporty driving as being severe duty.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220419/3123446c8c92efe2ebdce3adbee266f0.jpg

Be wary following LR’s servicing recommendations.

[101RRS]

Ok based on what has been produced I can accept that the D3 and D4 manuals indicate that it is sealed for life - however there is nothing about it in my Handbook and I have downloaded the genuine Landrover workshop manuals and Service Schedules form Topix for both the D3 and the RRS and they say this and nothing about sealed for life.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52015596174_b5ecb344dc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nfrwxG)service interval_LI (2) (https://flic.kr/p/2nfrwxG)

178278

178280


So it depends on where you go - some Handbooks say sealed for life, some don't but the genuine Workshop Manuals and the genuine service schedules all indicate a service interval.
Go figure [bighmmm].

[PeterOZ]

And you can get it in 5w-40??



have a BEX and do some research [bigwhistle]

[PeterOZ]

chaps as the OP of this chestnut of a thread the topic 9is about the 2 engine oils, can we stick to topic and take the transmission fluid debate elsewhere
thanks

[shanegtr]

I'm looking at creating a video for my YouTube channel based on my oil sample results on this subject. Although I have the results of 16 previous oil samples for my D3, this is only 1 engine with a limited amount of different oils in use (only 3 different oils) If any of you have done any oil sampling on either the 2.7 or 3L engines and would like to contribute your data to the pool of information I will use I would greatly appreciate it. Extra data will help balance out the averages and give a better result for all, hopefully it can gain some meaningful data on the subject rather than just opinions that are floating around

[101RRS]

have a BEX and do some research [bigwhistle]

Nah asking you - well what is the answer - you started this line of discussion.

I guess you dont know [bigwhistle].

[Fazzalator]

Some good digging on information here.

I'd always take the the manufacturer of the parts advice over the advice of the company that use the part as their vested interest is to make you think the car is cheaper to maintain than it really is.

Also, just a bit of common sense tells you nothing is built for life that needs lubrication, the oils will always breakdown over time. Again, on the avg's I saw ZF material said on Average change around every 100K's and then on a LR manual for 8 speed change every 40K for heavy use. So I'd be guessing for those not doing much towing or 4WD work to do closer to 100K and those that use this vehicle like a commercial vehicle should do every 40K.

Is that a good summary? [bighmmm]

[RickO]

I'm running the Castrol A5 in my 2013 3.0L it was the recommended one on the Castrol site but I just checked and it is now...

CASTROL EDGE 0W-30 C2BEST
Castrol EDGE 0W-30 C2 is an advanced full synthetic engine oil suitable for use in automotive petrol and diesel engines where the manufacturer recomends an ACEA C2 0W-30 lubricant.
.


I'd value the thoughts of those wiser than I on the interesting fact that the PENRITE ENVIRO+ C2 0W-30 (FULL SYN.) (https://penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/ENVIRO+%20C2%200W-30%20(FULL%20SYN.).pdf)product has the same specification as the CASTROL EDGE 0W-30 C2BEST oil recommended for 2014 D4s, i.e. ACEA C2 / STJLR.03.5007, and specifically mentions "Landrover Discovery 4" despite having a different Ford WSS-M2C950-A specification.

I suppose the definite reference should be the workshop manual, ie. 5W/30 – WSS–M2C913–B or C for ROW, indicating the previously identified PENRITE HPR 5 5W-40 (Full Synthetic) is the right choice.

It really shouldn't be this hard........

[kelvo]

So , whilst we can all split hairs about normal maint etc, the truth is that:

a) LR have indeed stated, both to the customer and to the workshop/dealer, that the ZF auto transmissions are filled for life, for both D3 and D4 models.

Except that the most up to date service requirement information shows that in the 120 month/260,000Km service that the fluid and filter is listed for replacement on the 8 speed auto.

As for engine oil, I’m going to continue using Castrol 5W-30 A5.

[Jpdv]

I'm mindful of the OP's request to get back on track, re engine oil. Let's all (try) to close out the transmission issue with a summary of 'LR did indeed claim it was maint free, but seem to have now changed their tune'. That seems uncontroversial and factual...

[fredd63]

My wife's 2015 toyota corolla, with 1.8litre engine, variable cam timing. The specification for oil basically says, "does it say engine oil on the container?, then you can use that"
Anything from 0-30 to 20-50. And toyotas have a good reputation for longevity.

cheers
Pete

[FisherX]

178315

[scarry]

My wife's 2015 toyota corolla, with 1.8litre engine, variable cam timing. The specification for oil basically says, "does it say engine oil on the container?, then you can use that"
Anything from 0-30 to 20-50. And toyotas have a good reputation for longevity.

cheers
Pete

My brother has a D1 that has done just under 400 000Km,he has had it since it was one year old,does all the work on it himself.
Uses the cheap Mobil oil,recommended grade,and it’s been fine.
While doing the heads,as the gaskets weeped coolant,he replaced the cams,even though wear was minimal on the old ones.
I always use the specified oil in my vehicles,including the work fleet,and have never ever had an engine issue,manyndoing over 300 000Km.

I think many over think what oil to use,if there are no engine issues,just use the manufacturer specified oil,and if it isn’t available use something that is close.

FWIW,the LC 1VD is specified 0w/30,but some particularly in the tropics use the Penrite HPR 5 5W-40.
Whether the HP5 is beneficial to the longevity of the engine,no one probably knows,it’s all just guesswork.

[rdenyer]

My wife's 2015 toyota corolla, with 1.8litre engine, variable cam timing. The specification for oil basically says, "does it say engine oil on the container?, then you can use that"
Anything from 0-30 to 20-50. And toyotas have a good reputation for longevity.

cheers
Pete
Best comment of the whole video
Toyota owners spend their time drinking coffee , Discovery 3 owners spend their time changing oil !

[MBE_NZ]

for what its worth - I've been using Penrite HPR 5w-40 in my TD5 defender for last 9 years and its well into the 800,000 KMs now on original motor

[slug_burner]

PeterOZ

Christian on LR Time does his research and makes sure he is well informed. He explained why he went to the 5W40 with the necessary ACEA codes. It is not unusual to have to increase the viscosity of engine oils on engines that have the wear consistent with higher mileages.

You just have to take the information provided and pay your money and take your chances.

Good luck, I’d stick with Christian’s advice.

[josh.huber]

The thing is you could go 5w60 . won't help an old engine.. You need to up the first number as it's the operating temp.. HPR5 is basically 15-30 not 5-40. Which is great.. Good start up oil viscosity, good running viscosity.. I used to run Castrol oils, loved them and had access to the "professional" range, on paper with my eyes.. Penrite is better, Mobil, shell etc all have their offerings. Can't say I looked

[shanegtr]

The thing is you could go 5w60 . won't help an old engine.. You need to up the first number as it's the operating temp.. HPR5 is basically 15-30 not 5-40. Which is great.. Good start up oil viscosity, good running viscosity.. I used to run Castrol oils, loved them and had access to the "professional" range, on paper with my eyes.. Penrite is better, Mobil, shell etc all have their offerings. Can't say I looked
Sorry Josh, but your statement there is incorrect. The first *w number is related to the oil cold pumpability of the oil (the W stands for winter), the second number is the SAE hot (100deg) viscosity rating so that is what relates to operating temp viscosities not the first number

[rdenyer]

Sorry Josh, but your statement there is incorrect. The first *w number is related to the oil cold pumpability of the oil (the W stands for winter), the second number is the SAE hot (100deg) viscosity rating so that is what relates to operating temp viscosities not the first number


When people talk about engine lubricant, the tendency might be to talk in terms of something like a “5W-30” or “10W-30” lubricant due to this being dominant on the bottle or can. This is classed as the viscosity grade and doesn’t tell the full story.


Engine lubricants are classified using the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J300 oil viscosity classification system. Multi-grade engine lubricants, such as SAE 5W-30 or 10W-30, must meet both low temperature and high temperature viscosity requirements. In a SAE 5W-30 engine lubricant:




“5W” refers to low-temperature viscosity (the "W" denotes winter) and is an indication of how easily the lubricant will flow in cold start-up conditions. At a given temperature a 5W lubricant has a lower viscosity than a 10W lubricant so flows faster during critical start-up. This is sometimes referred to as cold cranking simulator (CCS) viscosity.
“30” refers to the high temperature viscosity at 100°C, therefore replicating an engines operating temperature.

This is known as an oils kinematic viscosity (KV)—the time it takes for a fixed volume of lubricant to flow through a tube under the force of gravity.


HTHS measures the viscosity (resistance to flow) of an engine lubricant at elevated temperatures under constant shear, simulating the narrow tolerances and high speeds between moving parts in a hot engine.

High Temperature High Shear HTHS viscosity measures the viscosity of an engine lubricant at 150°C and simulates the narrow tolerances and high speeds between moving parts in a hot engine. In particular bearings, the camshaft, the piston rings and liner.


The HTHS viscosity of engine oils is important for the ACEA classification.




Classes A1, A5 and B1, B5 require an HTHS value of 2.9 to max. ...
The classes A2, A3, B2, B3 as well as E2, E3, E4 and E5 require an HTHS value of over 3.5 mPas (normal HTHS viscosity).
For classes C1 and C2, HTHS values ≥ 2.9 are required.



What Christian was pointing out - is read your owners manual and make up your mind with all the information in hand - dont nessecarily trust oil manufactures oil selection charts

[BradC]

Scrounging for numbers, the 5w-40 Enviro+ I use has a hths of 3.6 and HPR5 is 4.0.

Now none of my vehicles have a DPF I might move to the HPR 5.

[josh.huber]

Sorry Josh, but your statement there is incorrect. The first *w number is related to the oil cold pumpability of the oil (the W stands for winter), the second number is the SAE hot (100deg) viscosity rating so that is what relates to operating temp viscosities not the first number

Ha ha I think I had one too many blue cans.

The hpr 5 bit is right. It has a better 100degree rating.. I'm actually looking to go to hpr 15 next as I'm at 300k, my new gauge just turned up so I can see what the actual pressures are like before I do something dumb

[Jpdv]

my new gauge just turned up so I can see what the actual pressures are like before I do something dumb

Is this a DIY fit, and can you give some details? its something I'm keen to explore... Where is the sender/probe mounted?
Cheers.

[DiscoJeffster]

Ha ha I think I had one too many blue cans.

The hpr 5 bit is right. It has a better 100degree rating.. I'm actually looking to go to hpr 15 next as I'm at 300k, my new gauge just turned up so I can see what the actual pressures are like before I do something dumb

I’ve got new bearings. I feel like a virgin being penetrated for the first time. Still using HPR5 5W-40 “extra” 10 though

(Guessing what that feels like, just saying)

[josh.huber]

Is this a DIY fit, and can you give some details? its something I'm keen to explore... Where is the sender/probe mounted?
Cheers.

Temporary measure, remove the original and put the gauge in. Although I am thinking about a t peice and something full time. So much on the market now, I'd love something wireless I could look at on demand

[josh.huber]

Temporary measure, remove the original and put the gauge in. Although I am thinking about a t peice and something full time. So much on the market now, I'd love something wireless I could look at on demand

Sender is a switch in the to of the block on a long stem. Single wire rhs while looking at the engine bay.

[josh.huber]

First round results in. A little scary for me.

HPR 5 cold idle - settled to 20psi pretty quickly. Oil pressure rose nicely with throttle.. But a bit light for me.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220424/eba16293bf0ccaec0e5c79839df2f383.jpg

HPR 5 at 97 degrees - was about 1500rpm to get the required 14.7psi and about 20psi at 2000rpm. No sense going much higher as I don't really get further up.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220424/48f135863f824b754aa356c57a269222.jpg

Note this is just my car. Been on Castrol c1 Pro for the first 150k then HPR 5 since. 290005 ks on clock now.

I was going to run something thicker but the HTHS has me a little concerned with regards to that bloody crank, as I can find an increase of great for engine wear but not fit fuel, I'm worried that to high of a number will leave to much extra friction between the bearings and the crank, possibly causing a spin. I'll call Penrite on Tuesday and have another yarn I reckon.

I've got plenty of CAT 15-40 here. I'll chuck some in today for ****s and giggles. If nothing else a flush until I get the information I need. I love the idea of the HPR 15 but Its a big jump in HTHS from the HPR10.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220424/59996f5b2e923461594e9c9ebdb0e476.jpg

[josh.huber]

For reference the cat oil is HTHS 4.4. so considering that's in mining trucks in not sure I should go higher?

[PerthDisco]

I’m collecting all the bits for the next timing belt change and will definitely change the oil pump as well since it was already changed to the upgraded part last belt change (and vibration damper lower puller as well).

Christian did say the FAI pump was the ‘cheap pump’ so stay with FoMoCo only.

[DiscoJeffster]

I have a new pump and new bearings from 40k ago. I wonder what mine would be like

[BradC]

I wonder what pressure the piston cooling squirters open up at and what the impact might be of one or more sticking open?

Specs say 10 psi at idle and 27.5 at 3500rpm, so it must be diverting flow to the squirters continuously.

[josh.huber]

I wonder what pressure the piston cooling squirters open up at and what the impact might be of one or more sticking open?

Specs say 10 psi at idle and 27.5 at 3500rpm, so it must be diverting flow to the squirters continuously.

Where did you get that spec from Brad, the manual I have says over 15psi at all revs and under 65psi. Which annoyed me as it didn't specify temps or anything else.

Your source at least has rpm.

I was under the belief that piston squirts and turbos all shared the same supply as the bearings without valves.

[josh.huber]

I have a new pump and new bearings from 40k ago. I wonder what mine would be like

I'd like to know.. I'm thinking sump off and a bearing roll

[BradC]

Where did you get that spec from Brad, the manual I have says over 15psi at all revs and under 65psi. Which annoyed me as it didn't specify temps or anything else.

Your source at least has rpm.

I was under the belief that piston squirts and turbos all shared the same supply as the bearings without valves.

2.7 TDV6 Workshop Manual Section 303-01C -> "303 Engine/303-01C Engine - 2.7L V6 - TdV6/A-Specifications/"

178390

Old manual, old engine, old spec. Dated 2009, so probably out of date.

[josh.huber]

Cmon man, your post had put me at ease, i was like ohh its not so bad, ill check the Cat Oil on cold startup tomorrow for fun, then check it again at 100 degrees, honesty the whole world ran 15-40 for so long, if i dont make the right pressure with it, ill have to just pull the diff and sump and do a roll and may as well chuck a pump at it while im there

[BradC]

Cmon man, your post had put me at ease, i was like ohh its not so bad, ill check the Cat Oil on cold startup tomorrow for fun, then check it again at 100 degrees, honesty the whole world ran 15-40 for so long, if i dont make the right pressure with it, ill have to just pull the diff and sump and do a roll and may as well chuck a pump at it while im there

I was always told that plain bearings practically sucked the oil from the galleries, so as long as there is :
a) enough oil pressure to replenish that; and
b) enough oil flow to prevent it cooking

then it was ok. When you look at the bearing surfaces, crank, 4 cams and then the 6 cooling jets + turbos it's going to have to move a lot of oil to keep significant pressure. I'm sure the specs haven't changed much from the 2.7 to the 3.

The only other motors I've encountered with piston cooling jets (petrol or diesel) have had pressure control valves, so they only squirt when there's enough oil pressure precisely because they flow a lot of oil. I'm looking at a Volvo Penta manual now where the piston squirters don't open until somewhere between 12-17 psi, but the hot idle oil pressure is still specced at 21psi.

[josh.huber]

my laptop went flat today and ive had a chance after dinner to have a decent read just now, the specs are in the manual.

mine is considered normal, so thats a plus, ill still monitor the cat oil, but im thinking after all of todays thoughts that HPR5 might be ok for my worn out engine, i would like more then 10 psi at idle but LR says its fine so thatll do me.

what a roller coaster of emotions oil has become

[josh.huber]

I was always told that plain bearings practically sucked the oil from the galleries, so as long as there is :
a) enough oil pressure to replenish that; and
b) enough oil flow to prevent it cooking

then it was ok. When you look at the bearing surfaces, crank, 4 cams and then the 6 cooling jets + turbos it's going to have to move a lot of oil to keep significant pressure. I'm sure the specs haven't changed much from the 2.7 to the 3.

The only other motors I've encountered with piston cooling jets (petrol or diesel) have had pressure control valves, so they only squirt when there's enough oil pressure precisely because they flow a lot of oil. I'm looking at a Volvo Penta manual now where the piston squirters don't open until somewhere between 12-17 psi, but the hot idle oil pressure is still specced at 21psi.

Yeah thats true, but the pump should be big enough to maintain enough pressure aswell, it's pressure that keeps the plain bearings off the crank. I guess that's why I'm paranoid. Because I've read a few people whose engines went bang at the lights. I was worried about low rpm pressure.

The valves are a good idea, you don't need piston cooling at idle, wonder if it's a horsepower save too?

[kelvo]

I'm sure the specs haven't changed much from the 2.7 to the 3.
Depends on what you class as ‘much’.

Details from the 3.0ltr T/SDV6 LR workshop manual.

[Tombie]

It gets bloody hot around here, and 5w-30 does the job just fine running for hours on end.

I run Vantage 5W-30 in both our later LRs and the HPR Diesel 5 in the TD5 and won’t change.

[PeterOZ]

Nah asking you - well what is the answer - you started this line of discussion.

I guess you dont know [bigwhistle].

oh I do and clearly you do not, like I said go look it up yourself. [thumbsupbig]

[PeterOZ]

PeterOZ

Christian on LR Time does his research and makes sure he is well informed. He explained why he went to the 5W40 with the necessary ACEA codes. It is not unusual to have to increase the viscosity of engine oils on engines that have the wear consistent with higher mileages.

You just have to take the information provided and pay your money and take your chances.

Good luck, I’d stick with Christian’s advice.

Indeed and my donk while it was transplanted from a territory I would say had much higher km on it than what the indie stated. It makes very similar noises to Christian & Vera's d3.

My intent is to try 5W-40, most likely the HPR 5 full syn as that meets the original ACEA standard.

cheers
me

[incisor]

i would like more then 10 psi at idle but LR says its fine so thatll do me.

it takes a fair volume of oil to generate 10psi even at reasonably close tolerances...

[BradC]

I’d be more concerned about the pressure when it’s really hot. I was seeing oil temps of > 120C last week with the van on. That’s in the sump so the temps in the bearings would have been considerably higher. Takes a while to dump that heat at idle.

[josh.huber]

I’d be more concerned about the pressure when it’s really hot. I was seeing oil temps of > 120C last week with the van on. That’s in the sump so the temps in the bearings would have been considerably higher. Takes a while to dump that heat at idle.

Yeah that's what got me started. Only 110 on the way home with the Camper on. It's all good fun.

[BradC]

Given the amount of sludge that was blocking my heater core, I do wonder about both the oil cooler and the fuel cooler. Our van isn’t heavy at around 1600kg, but it’s a bit like a rolling windbreak.