Looking to replace rear diff pinion seal

[vbrab]

Have a leaking pinion seal on rear diff (D2a) and just wondering if there is any problems that might come from taking off front plate and lock nut and fitting new seal?
Can't find a how to video or instructions for the procedure, and wondering if it is a straight forward job, or are there "traps" in changing out the seal?
Such as, does undoing the front nut upset the pinion, or will tightening the nut back in same exact position be enough to limit any problems from undoing the main nut?

[AK83]

IIRC the D2 uses a bolt, not a nut to secure the flange.
That is, the pinion is drilled and tapped with a thread .. so no issues with undoing the bolt for the flange .. doesn't upset the pinion.
Tighten the bolt back up to 100Nm again.

Question is why did the seal fail? most likely due to wear on the flange area, so either be prepared with a new flange or have a way to polish it up to remove any grooving that the seal caused .. and hence why it's leaking to begin with.
No point in just plonking a new seal, and wrap it all up again .. only to have it leak again in a short time.

So my suggestion would be to buy the flange kit(comes with seal, nut/bolt and flange), and not just the seal itself.

[V8Ian]

Or sleeve it, Arthur.
SKF (https://www.skf.com/au/products/industrial-seals/power-transmission-seals/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve)

[vbrab]

IIRC the D2 uses a bolt, not a nut to secure the flange.
That is, the pinion is drilled and tapped with a thread .. so no issues with undoing the bolt for the flange .. doesn't upset the pinion.
Tighten the bolt back up to 100Nm again.

Question is why did the seal fail? most likely due to wear on the flange area, so either be prepared with a new flange or have a way to polish it up to remove any grooving that the seal caused .. and hence why it's leaking to begin with.
No point in just plonking a new seal, and wrap it all up again .. only to have it leak again in a short time.

So my suggestion would be to buy the flange kit(comes with seal, nut/bolt and flange), and not just the seal itself.
Agreed, kit will be at least a definite "fix".
I have seen that after market kits are not that pricy and expect that there may be a groove on the flange. (genuine LR kit flange, bolts and seal $500, cheapie kit $110)
Will likely look for an OEM seal to go with the cheapie flange as have found cheapie seals fail pretty quickly.
Waiting on tool supplier in UK to get back from their extended Easter break, as cannot find anybody selling the flange extractor and flange holding tools here.

[vbrab]

Or sleeve it, Arthur.
SKF (https://www.skf.com/au/products/industrial-seals/power-transmission-seals/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve)

Where I live we don't have a bearing service, if I was near a city anything might be possible.
Will likely go with install a new flange and seal as that is possible here.

[AK83]

Agreed, kit will be at least a definite "fix".
I have seen that after market kits are not that pricy and expect that there may be a groove on the flange. (genuine LR kit flange, bolts and seal $500, cheapie kit $110)
Will likely look for an OEM seal to go with the cheapie flange as have found cheapie seals fail pretty quickly.
Waiting on tool supplier in UK to get back from their extended Easter break, as cannot find anybody selling the flange extractor and flange holding tools here.

What the flange extractor tool?

I need to do my D1's rear seal one day(long story why I haven't) .. and I was just going to use my generic harmonic pulley pulling tool on it.

Cheapie ebay job, cost about $20 or $40(can't recall exactly) .. I needed it to pull the harmonic off the Tdi some years back.
Has a large female thread in the centre of a three fingered web looking plate. Haven't yet measured it, but I reckon bolt the plate to the flange(has lots of leeway to line up right I think) .. and the centre thread into the pinions and it should slowly release the flange at some point. Even if it only puts enough pulling force where a few strategic taps with a 10lb masher releases it proper ..

I don't reckon you need a specialised flange extractor too to remove it.

I'm referring to THIS (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/233044379833?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110 006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201 210111314%26meid%3De41c41ea73054cd685a08b6563d2d4b a%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D162824 628253%26itm%3D233044379833%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26 pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAsp ectsV202110NoVariantSeed%26brand%3DValley&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A233044379833e41c41ea73054cd685a08b6 563d2d4ba%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABMIIp3bTCXFAKw6S9crk9CpCr rtOgadqFiC10NVPbN0936eprYVB4SXfDa52e1mbPLB%252BkKy LY6o68a%252BUJIpY0%252BF41JCLfXk%252BTwjk66ovXRmkh HTARaiZTgzXMZ28RjTSiJ%252ByFmuaOv%252BV5vFEISv3UID r5FU%252FCU42pLJz%252F4R%252BaWKN0nEmYaqEWV5x%252F R8F8IosP%252FE7wvD1Yfnpo0%252B77z%252BLn%252BzN4%2 52FrOJzVXHS%252Fv0EP8UA3%252BeznpozQ7O3jN1tMJFVft% 252B%252Bf4ykfi482DoFjqtIbgk0McKGwE1v5kpf6M1w8vj%2 52BISSda0sSQoVNlMq2pdZaT8ODyJhfrGIAxSszQaU4exBNooa OtoueRESt1umL0UP8r65NSB6jYJeIWLo8pfz7Vf4VSQiwPgMVz PFmOYkNinL3yQ%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A204767 5) type of tool you can readily find on ebay.
Note that if you do go with this tool type(handy for a few removal types) .. the bolts they supply are, as you should expect!! ... pretty much useless. You'd be lucky if you got a single use out of most.
The more important factor with these tool kits are the fittings supplied in the kit. Specifically the feet .. the central feet that rest on the fixed point in the assembly you're prying apart. The kit I got is similar too(not the same one tho) to the one I linked too. If you view it, you will see other brands types available for less $s too. The feet are the small attachments that are around the 3 fingered claw plate. The cone and flat shaped doodads that attach to the threaded male rod that rest on the sturdy part of the assembly. You get large and smaller flats and cones.. both, shapes and sizes can be handy for various purposes.

If I were to use mine on the flange(which I will one day, when not in 'lazy mode), I'd use the flat foot but not onto the pinion directly, I would get the bolt in as far as I could thread it and if needed maybe a few washers to secure it tightly. Then the central threaded rod would be pushing on the head of the bolt with the flat foot. You could be tempted to try the cone foot into the threads of the pinion! I'd say don't!... could damage the threads. It shouldn't as the feet pivot on a shaft that don't let it turn whilst you wind the rod in.
To work properly they just need lube. I use WD type stuff, on the large rod(threads) and on the shaft of the foot to be sure it turns(relative to the threaded rod).

For not a whole lot of $s ... and taking into account the country of origin!! :whistling: ... they seem to do the job well enough.

The extractor plate is made of the most elastic hardened steel that Mao's metalurgists could manage to manufacture! [biggrin] .. but for small scale jobs on passenger vehicles, I don't think you NEED the $200+ name brand jobbies.

Hope that helps.

[V8Ian]

Where I live we don't have a bearing service, if I was near a city anything might be possible.
Will likely go with install a new flange and seal as that is possible here.
Feeling your pain, I broke down there a few years ago.
If you can supply the seal number or internal and external dimensions of the seal, CBC Darwin - CBC Australia PTY LTD (https://conbear.com.au/store/cbc-darwin/) should have no problems supplying the seal and speedi sleeve.

[vbrab]

At first I figured three leg puller would do job, but as the centre flange has to be extracted (and by many accounts often quite 'stuck"), then it would likely require a tool such as Fourby.uk make, which relies on three bolts to "push" the flange out, rather than just an 8x1.25 pitch bolt to "pull" it.
Not sure it can be "pulled" in the usual way.
I'd be keen to get cheaper more available tools to do job if they suited.

The tools appear reasonably priced, but then they wanted about $150 freight for $150 of tools, so have sent Email querying freight cost as same tool on Ebay incurs cheaper freight, but cannot find both tools on Ebay, so contacted fouby.UK website

Demo here: LR Discovery1 and 2, RRC Rear Axle Diff Donut Centralising Peg Removal Tool from Fourby,co.uk - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVZLgPchT2E)
Two tools: extractor plate and flange holder https://fourby.co.uk/epages/950004277.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950004277/Products/puller
and Flange holder (needed to bolt the flange back in at least.) https://fourby.co.uk/epages/950004277.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950004277/Products/LRT-51-003


(https://fourby.co.uk/epages/950004277.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950004277/Products/LRT-51-003)Waiting for response from Fouby Uk.







What the flange extractor tool?

I need to do my D1's rear seal one day(long story why I haven't) .. and I was just going to use my generic harmonic pulley pulling tool on it.

Cheapie ebay job, cost about $20 or $40(can't recall exactly) .. I needed it to pull the harmonic off the Tdi some years back.
Has a large female thread in the centre of a three fingered web looking plate. Haven't yet measured it, but I reckon bolt the plate to the flange(has lots of leeway to line up right I think) .. and the centre thread into the pinions and it should slowly release the flange at some point. Even if it only puts enough pulling force where a few strategic taps with a 10lb masher releases it proper ..

I don't reckon you need a specialised flange extractor too to remove it.

I'm referring to THIS (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/233044379833?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110 006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201 210111314%26meid%3De41c41ea73054cd685a08b6563d2d4b a%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D162824 628253%26itm%3D233044379833%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26 pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAsp ectsV202110NoVariantSeed%26brand%3DValley&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A233044379833e41c41ea73054cd685a08b6 563d2d4ba%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABMIIp3bTCXFAKw6S9crk9CpCr rtOgadqFiC10NVPbN0936eprYVB4SXfDa52e1mbPLB%252BkKy LY6o68a%252BUJIpY0%252BF41JCLfXk%252BTwjk66ovXRmkh HTARaiZTgzXMZ28RjTSiJ%252ByFmuaOv%252BV5vFEISv3UID r5FU%252FCU42pLJz%252F4R%252BaWKN0nEmYaqEWV5x%252F R8F8IosP%252FE7wvD1Yfnpo0%252B77z%252BLn%252BzN4%2 52FrOJzVXHS%252Fv0EP8UA3%252BeznpozQ7O3jN1tMJFVft% 252B%252Bf4ykfi482DoFjqtIbgk0McKGwE1v5kpf6M1w8vj%2 52BISSda0sSQoVNlMq2pdZaT8ODyJhfrGIAxSszQaU4exBNooa OtoueRESt1umL0UP8r65NSB6jYJeIWLo8pfz7Vf4VSQiwPgMVz PFmOYkNinL3yQ%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A204767 5) type of tool you can readily find on ebay.
Note that if you do go with this tool type(handy for a few removal types) .. the bolts they supply are, as you should expect!! ... pretty much useless. You'd be lucky if you got a single use out of most.
The more important factor with these tool kits are the fittings supplied in the kit. Specifically the feet .. the central feet that rest on the fixed point in the assembly you're prying apart. The kit I got is similar too(not the same one tho) to the one I linked too. If you view it, you will see other brands types available for less $s too. The feet are the small attachments that are around the 3 fingered claw plate. The cone and flat shaped doodads that attach to the threaded male rod that rest on the sturdy part of the assembly. You get large and smaller flats and cones.. both, shapes and sizes can be handy for various purposes.

If I were to use mine on the flange(which I will one day, when not in 'lazy mode), I'd use the flat foot but not onto the pinion directly, I would get the bolt in as far as I could thread it and if needed maybe a few washers to secure it tightly. Then the central threaded rod would be pushing on the head of the bolt with the flat foot. You could be tempted to try the cone foot into the threads of the pinion! I'd say don't!... could damage the threads. It shouldn't as the feet pivot on a shaft that don't let it turn whilst you wind the rod in.
To work properly they just need lube. I use WD type stuff, on the large rod(threads) and on the shaft of the foot to be sure it turns(relative to the threaded rod).

For not a whole lot of $s ... and taking into account the country of origin!! :whistling: ... they seem to do the job well enough.

The extractor plate is made of the most elastic hardened steel that Mao's metalurgists could manage to manufacture! [biggrin] .. but for small scale jobs on passenger vehicles, I don't think you NEED the $200+ name brand jobbies.

Hope that helps.

[vbrab]

Feeling your pain, I broke down there a few years ago.
If you can supply the seal number or internal and external dimensions of the seal, CBC Darwin - CBC Australia PTY LTD (https://conbear.com.au/store/cbc-darwin/) should have no problems supplying the seal and speedi sleeve.

Waiting on tools to extract it first, then if worn will have to chase up speedi sleeve ......or see if my wreck has a better one on it.

[AK83]

with the centralising pin, just an M8 bolt screwed in against something anchored to the flange is enough. Yeah , they can get stuck too, but again, some penetrant/heat/bangy force can assist.

To pull the pin, or spigot or whatever each prefers to cal it, I used a suitable sized metal 'bush' removal cup.

Again off ebay ... LINK (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/154476913411?hash=item23f78aa303:g:2E8AAOSwWHpgtyq h&frcectupt=true) .... got it fairly cheaply(for the amount of metal involved) ..
The cups are very solid .. and someone could probably break one, but I haven't managed too yet, even using a 5lb sledgy onto the ones I've used.
Got my panhard rod bushes out against a bluestone boulder, using the smash and smash method .. I tried the bench vise, but at one point I thought it'd break .. so ended that, and used the smash 'em method on the boulder.

... oh! yeah .... I have a 2+ ton boulder in my yard that came out of the ground that I asked the backhoe operator not to pull out!

If you have large sockets, they could be used instead of needing the bush removal kit. Can't recall the size of the diameter of the bush part of the centralising pin .. maybe a 1 1/2" socket may be OK .. then use a washer and a M8 bolt of suitable length and sew it in. a bit of WD/lube and wind it up. It should pull out.

I assume that the 3 fingered pulley tool could also be used to remove the centralising pin if it's anchored to flange too. But I reckon a bit annoying as it'd take a few spacers to maintain a decent distance between flange and tool plate.

[vnx205]

When my Salisbury diff started leaking (possibly because of a blocked breather), there was a slight groove where the seal had been running.

I was told that a thick gasket behind the new seal would move it out onto a fresh part of the flange.

A couple of hundred thousand km later it is still sealing perfectly.

Maybe you don't need a new flange even if the old one has a bit of a groove.

[vbrab]

When my Salisbury diff started leaking (possibly because of a blocked breather), there was a slight groove where the seal had been running.

I was told that a thick gasket behind the new seal would move it out onto a fresh part of the flange.

A couple of hundred thousand km later it is still sealing perfectly.

Maybe you don't need a new flange even if the old one has a bit of a groove.

I don't have it out yet, but was thinking about ways to get the seal to line up elsewhere IF I see a groove on the flange. If I was in the city it would be an easy fix, but in remote you look for work-arounds, and lining the seal lip up elsewhere if possible, looks like No1 option.

[vbrab]

I am looking at how I might be able to use the plate part of the three way pulling tool anchored in the centre with the central flange bolt and then use three bolts set into the three holes on the diff pinion flange and use nuts to wind the pulling plate out. (In similar fashion to how Fouby UK demonstrate their "special" tool for flange removal.)
That might get the flange out, and then i have to work out a good way to anchor the diff pinion flange when I go to fit it all back and tighten central bolt up.
Back to looking at the "universal" flange holding tool from Fouby UK.


with the centralising pin, just an M8 bolt screwed in against something anchored to the flange is enough. Yeah , they can get stuck too, but again, some penetrant/heat/bangy force can assist.

To pull the pin, or spigot or whatever each prefers to cal it, I used a suitable sized metal 'bush' removal cup.

Again off ebay ... LINK (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/154476913411?hash=item23f78aa303:g:2E8AAOSwWHpgtyq h&frcectupt=true) .... got it fairly cheaply(for the amount of metal involved) ..
The cups are very solid .. and someone could probably break one, but I haven't managed too yet, even using a 5lb sledgy onto the ones I've used.
Got my panhard rod bushes out against a bluestone boulder, using the smash and smash method .. I tried the bench vise, but at one point I thought it'd break .. so ended that, and used the smash 'em method on the boulder.

... oh! yeah .... I have a 2+ ton boulder in my yard that came out of the ground that I asked the backhoe operator not to pull out!

If you have large sockets, they could be used instead of needing the bush removal kit. Can't recall the size of the diameter of the bush part of the centralising pin .. maybe a 1 1/2" socket may be OK .. then use a washer and a M8 bolt of suitable length and sew it in. a bit of WD/lube and wind it up. It should pull out.

I assume that the 3 fingered pulley tool could also be used to remove the centralising pin if it's anchored to flange too. But I reckon a bit annoying as it'd take a few spacers to maintain a decent distance between flange and tool plate.

[AK83]

I have a couple of methods in mind using the 3 fingered flanged puller.

Just need space between drive flange and puller fingers, so long enough bolts to achieve required spacing .. say 100mm long bolts(maybe 125mm .. but just as an example)

One way would be to use spacers between the drive flange and the puller flange plate.. eg. some appropriately sized tubing. (to note I have most of the stuff I'll refer too) .. ie. I have some 10mm tube, I'd cut to say 100mm lengths(then need 125+mm long bolts. Washers to hold bolts properly at the flanged and also for the nut ends. The tightened down bolts now shoudl be solid with about 100mm distance between flanges. another 125mm or whatever M8 bolt through the central threaded hole of the puller plate, appropriate washer for it to that as it tightens up, it's force on the head stays put and tightening it up, pulls on the centralising pin.

The alternate way to use the puller plate, instead of using the tube to space the flanges, you could lock them up using the same bolt hardware, but use more nuts along the path of the bolts to lock spacing between the two flanges. SO head of bolt on a flange(using washers too obviously) .. then a lock nut for the first flange to the bolt is now locked at this distance on the first flange .. then another nut up the bolt first, then washer too, insert into the other flange, and the second nut now is wound up down to give you some spacing. The third nut is then wound on to hold the contraption on properly. Once tightened I'd expect it'd be solid enough to allow some force allowance in the central hold to wind the M8 into the centralising pin.

A lot of mucking about if you don't have (say) a socket or bush cup to do it ... but still doable(I reckon).

[PhilipA]

Yes I used a 51MM socket and a long bolt. AFAIR I had to add some washers to the bolt to get the right length for thread engagement, but It came out pretty easily..
I fitted the seal in a different position to where it was. you can test fit by putting grease on the seal surface and note where it comes to on the flange and adjust accordingly.
You do not have to worry about bearing preload as the preload is set by shims not a crush washer.
Regards PhilipA

[vbrab]

Yes I used a 51MM socket and a long bolt. AFAIR I had to add some washers to the bolt to get the right length for thread engagement, but It came out pretty easily..
I fitted the seal in a different position to where it was. you can test fit by putting grease on the seal surface and note where it comes to on the flange and adjust accordingly.
You do not have to worry about bearing preload as the preload is set by shims not a crush washer.
Regards PhilipA

I will have to see if our (only) parts shop actually has a 51mm socket in its range and then whether it would be deep enough.
Still waiting on FourbyUk to advise if they actually do have the advertised extraction tools.
Nothing moves quick up here. (Kununurra)

[AK83]

I will have to see if our (only) parts shop actually has a 51mm socket in its range and then whether it would be deep enough.
.....

The depth shouldn't be an issue... Once it comes out say half way(about 20mm) or so it should free up a bit more, and come out easier.

[PhilipA]

The depth shouldn't be an issue... Once it comes out say half way(about 20mm) or so it should free up a bit more, and come out easier.
It is tapered so will release with a bang and then be easy.
Regards PhilipA