F150 Forged Crankshaft

[Jeffoir]

Hi Everyone,
Disclaimer: I am not an automotive engineer.
What is your opinion of this please for a possible D4 SVD6 engine rebuild that requires a new crank?
A Ford dealer in Minnesota USA, sells a new, revised forged crank (https://www.pfeifferwholesaleparts.com/oem-parts/ford-crankshaft-9x2z6303b?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmbD02NCZuPUFzc2 VtYmxpZXMgUGFnZSZhPWZvcmQmbz1mLTE1MCZ5PTIwMjAmdD1r aW5nLXJhbmNoJmU9My0wbC12Ni1kaWVzZWw%3D) manufacture, for the F150's version of the Lion engine 3.0L TDV6.
The price is US$630 which is AUD900. Of course there will be freight and GST. Lets presume that we can land the Ford part for around AUD 1,250.
The genuine LR part price ex Land Rover UK, is AUD 1,165 delivered Sydney. However, Land Rover UK will not comment on whether this spare part is a "forged" manufacture or not. Just to say that is authentic and has a 12 month warranty. LR Direct is the same price for the genuine part. So, there is NO significant price penalty in bringing in the Ford part from the USA.

However, how could we CHECK that the Ford crankshaft would fit and perform as we would hope?

(as an aside for a different thread, the inlet manifolds (https://www.pfeifferwholesaleparts.com/oem-parts/ford-manifold-assembly-inlet-9x2z9424d?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmbD0yNSZuPUFzc2 VtYmxpZXMgUGFnZSZhPWZvcmQmbz1mLTE1MCZ5PTIwMjAmdD1r aW5nLXJhbmNoJmU9My0wbC12Ni1kaWVzZWw%3D) for the F150 ex USA cost US$70 each. $100 Aussie. Doesn't say where they are made, but they are genuine. The LR manifolds in SYD are $A740 each, as we all know. Another question: Would they fit? For a hundred dollars, it could we be worth having one posted over and running the ruler over it. Thoughts ?)

As always, very best wishes to all. Jeff

Reference source: (https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=145) MotorReviewer - Ford Engines

[101RRS]

There is a lot of discussion on this forum so please do a search.

My own research indicates that the crank journals are larger on the Ford Powerstroke diesel so will not fit in a standard LR 3.0 block - can the block be line bored to take the larger crank? I dont know.

There are others who believe the crank is basically the same as the LR 3.0 diesel and will fit - again that is not my research but who knows - one thing is that the Powerstroke crankshaft is stronger than the LR version as the US, while suffering some failures, does not seem to have the rate of failures that the LR engine does.

My only advice is to research thoroughly and confirm the diameter of the main journals of the Powerstroke engine and that they will fit a LR block.

Garry

PS - I do not believe that LR sells just the crankshafts - just recon engines - I would check where this crank is actually coming from. Lots of discussion on the UK D3 site on this very issue DISCO3.CO.UK - Index (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/) - as I said do your research.

[ChookD2]

Isn't a machined billet crank stronger than the forged version? (I am also NOT an automotive engineer)

I mean, if you are going to do the detailed option of rebuilding an engine you (I) would want the best parts.

This is the first one on a google search for tdv6 billet crankshaft (https://www.hurricanerods.com/products/Land-Rover-Discovery-3-2.7L-90mm-stroke-TDV6-billet-4340-crankshaft.html) Just a thought.

I have no association with this or any parts manufacturer, just the first one on a search.

[loanrangie]

There is a lot of discussion on this forum so please do a search.

My own research indicates that the crank journals are larger on the Ford Powerstroke diesel so will not fit in a standard LR 3.0 block - can the block be line bored to take the larger crank? I dont know.

There are others who believe the crank is basically the same as the LR 3.0 diesel and will fit - again that is not my research but who knows - one thing is that the Powerstroke crankshaft is stronger than the LR version as the US, while suffering some failures, does not seem to have the rate of failures that the LR engine does.

My only advice is to research thoroughly and confirm the diameter of the main journals of the Powerstroke engine and that they will fit a LR block.

Garry

PS - I do not believe that LR sells just the crankshafts - just recon engines - I would check where this crank is actually coming from. Lots of discussion on the UK D3 site on this very issue DISCO3.CO.UK - Index (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/) - as I said do your research.

Would also need to confirm if the flywheel/flexplate flange is the same size and PCD as the LR motor otherwise it will an require adapter which may make it difficult to fit.

[jon3950]

Isn't a machined billet crank stronger than the forged version? (I am also NOT an automotive engineer).

No. Except for when its yes.

It's not that simple. Like for like, a forging should be stronger than a machined billet. The forging process forces the grain structure of the metal to flow along the shape of the object, whereas machining a billet cuts through through the grain structure, which can cause weaknesses in the surface. A billet is just a lump of steel and has no inherent magical properties.

Billet machining is mainly used for low volume production in preference to casting. This will generally result in a stronger item than a casting because you can use a stronger material at a lower cost for a small production run.

Generally speaking a casting is weaker than a machined billet and a machined billet is weaker than a forging. Ultimately though it comes down to material selection and suitability of the design for the particular process.

Which in turn all comes down to cost.

Cheers,
Jon

[Eric SDV6SE]

Billets are normally forged lumps of steel. Lots of machining to get to the final shape. A forged crank with machined bits removes less material and cuts through fewer grain structures in the steel.

[PeterJ]

What Jon said +1

[jon3950]

Billets are normally forged lumps of steel. Lots of machining to get to the final shape. A forged crank with machined bits removes less material and cuts through fewer grain structures in the steel.

Billet is a term that is really misused in this context.

A billet is actually a semi-finished product that comes out of the furnace, so they're cast. These are then subjected to a process such as hot rolling to form finished products such as round bars, squares and flats.

In this context billet gets used to describe anything that is machined out of a single piece of steel, so it could be made out of anything. I suspect its an Americanism that's been adopted as a fancy marketing term to make things sound better than they are.

Cheers,
Jon

[Eric SDV6SE]

Billet is a term that is really misused in this context.

A billet is actually a semi-finished product that comes out of the furnace, so they're cast. These are then subjected to a process such as hot rolling to form finished products such as round bars, squares and flats.

In this context billet gets used to describe anything that is machined out of a single piece of steel, so it could be made out of anything. I suspect its an Americanism that's been adopted as a fancy marketing term to make things sound better than they are.

Cheers,
Jon

Agreed, should have prefixed it with "forged billet". Even then this may not be a full forging, and only have force applied to shape the billet. A fully forged item ensures the grain structures are as aligned as they can be.