Transplant ZF 8sp .. anyone

[Bulletman]

Gday All,
Just wondering if anyone has or if its possible to transplant an 8sp instead of rebuilding the 6sp.
I would say I'm up for a box rebuild, guessing torque converter as a minimum, so seeing the D4 came out with the 8sp bolted to basically the same engine being the 2.7 tdv6 , got me thinking if this is a viable or possible option.

Cheers Bulletman

[Tote]

Maybe a chat to the guys in Coffs Harbour that were doing the 5 cylinder conversions in the Defenders. They would have figured out the control circuitry for the transmissions I'd imagine.

Regards,
Tote

[Vern]

Maybe a chat to the guys in Coffs Harbour that were doing the 5 cylinder conversions in the Defenders. They would have figured out the control circuitry for the transmissions I'd imagine.

Regards,
ToteWauchope actually.
Momentum 4x4

[veebs]

I read on FB that it is viable on the D4. Could be tricky with different trim in the D3 interior?

Reach out to Old jaguar…

[veebs]

Thinking further in this, and how epic an 8sp transplant could be on a D4 V8…

[Stuart02]

There's a thread on the D4 TDV8, and there's also a thread by Cambo re the 8spd conversion...

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

8HP into a D4 is relatively easy, but into a D3 is more complicated, I mean anything can be done but it's not a straight swap like a D4.
D4 is easier because the shifter/console is a straight swap over and bolts straight up to a 3.0, but that's not the case in a 2.7 D3...

The other issue is that by the time you've collected all the parts, it'll be around the same cost as a proper rebuild on a 6HP. Then you have the additional costs for the conversion work on top... but if you really want it then yeah sure drop me a line.

[DiscoJeffster]

8HP into a D4 is relatively easy, but into a D3 is more complicated, I mean anything can be done but it's not a straight swap like a D4.
D4 is easier because the shifter/console is a straight swap over and bolts straight up to a 3.0, but that's not the case in a 2.7 D3...

The other issue is that by the time you've collected all the parts, it'll be around the same cost as a proper rebuild on a 6HP. Then you have the additional costs for the conversion work on top... but if you really want it then yeah sure drop me a line.

This might be better than a rebuild of my 6HP28 on my 2010 3L [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]

[Eric SDV6SE]

This might be better than a rebuild of my 6HP28 on my 2010 3L [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]

+1 for me, I'm sure can be done DIY saving a decent amount of labour costs

[DiscoJeffster]

+1 for me, I'm sure can be done DIY saving a decent amount of labour costs

Hmmm, I can see you lifting the gearbox back into place on your back in the garage [emoji12]

[Eric SDV6SE]

Hmmm, I can see you lifting the gearbox back into place on your back in the garage [emoji12]

Scissor and trolley jack, she'll be right

[BradC]

Hmmm, I can see you lifting the gearbox back into place on your back in the garage [emoji12]

I've done it a number of times (not the D3 but others).


First was a trolley jack with a transmission adapter. Needed more clearance than I liked, but worked.
Second was 2 trolley jacks and a lot of balancing. Not fun by yourself.
Third time was my favourite. I borrowed a mates ute with a HIAB on it. Took the bonnet off and used a sling around the front of the trans up to the HIAB. I could lift the back and guide it into place while operating the remote for the HIAB to take the majority of the weight.


One of the reasons I bought a manual ;)

[Slunnie]

I'm pretty sure with the BMW, the M57 Td6 came with 6HP and the following N57 Td6 came with 8HP. I'm pretty certain that when converting the M57 to 8HP they have had to use an adaptor plate (may not be the case with LR TDV6) and the transmission had to be controlled with a seperate programmable transmission controller that had to be set up. It wasn't just plug and play. I would have expected it to be the same if you convert a LandRover 6HP to an 8HP.

[loanrangie]

I'm pretty sure with the BMW, the M57 Td6 came with 6HP and the following N57 Td6 came with 8HP. I'm pretty certain that when converting the M57 to 8HP they have had to use an adaptor plate (may not be the case with LR TDV6) and the transmission had to be controlled with a seperate programmable transmission controller that had to be set up. It wasn't just plug and play. I would have expected it to be the same if you convert a LandRover 6HP to an 8HP.But the D4 had an 8hp with the 3l already so it will physically bolt up, communication with the rest of the system is the main hurdle.

[Slunnie]

But the D4 had an 8hp with the 3l already so it will physically bolt up, communication with the rest of the system is the main hurdle.

I think you'd be right there. For comms they used an "HTG GCU stand alone controller, taking care of the transmission, all wired in through CAN"

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

8HP into an early 3.0L D4 needs some CCF changes, software update to the IPC (instrument cluster), as well as custom tunes in the TCM and PCM.

Plus the wiring modifications to take the GSM (gear shift module) and the later terrain response panel, and the different connector on the box itself (6HP & 8HP have different plugs).

So it's not plug & play, but it's been done, there's a 3 or 4 of them on the road now with 8HP's that we were involved in... or is it 5 now? I kinda lost count LOL

One of the (many) reasons for the custom tunes is different diff ratios between 6-speed & 8-speed D4's. Also the VIN is stored in the 8HP TCM EEPROM, and the base calibration has to be matched between PCM & TCM.

Actually the main test mule vehicle for the 8HP conversions was originally a 2.7L D4, it's now running a 3.6L TDV8 and 8HP70... so there is a way around the calibration match now...

Aside from the GSM integration into a D3, there is also the 11-bit vs 29-bit CAN matter, it's not an issue in the D4's but trying to make an 11-bit module work in a 29-bit vehicle is currently in the too hard basket.

The 2.7 D4's (and 3.6 RRS from 2010MY) were 11-bit even with "old" 6HP boxes, so they are much easier to convert to 8HP.

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

This might be better than a rebuild of my 6HP28 on my 2010 3L [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]
Better? Yes!

But not necessarily cheaper, unless you can source the parts at bargain prices.

In my mind the 8HP conversion should be a financially viable alternative to rebuilding a 6HP. I mean 8HP's don't really break or wear out like the old 6HP's, so there's much less demand for them, but the wreckers have different ideas with the prices they want to charge...

[landroveraddict]

Better? Yes!

But not necessarily cheaper, unless you can source the parts at bargain prices.

In my mind the 8HP conversion should be a financially viable alternative to rebuilding a 6HP. I mean 8HP's don't really break or wear out like the old 6HP's, so there's much less demand for them, but the wreckers have different ideas with the prices they want to charge...

so I know I'm a new member and responding to an old thread...and I'm in the wrong subforum... but have you explored the possibility of updating the ZF6 in the L322 5L Supercharged trucks to the ZF8s that were offered in the European diesels?

Its about time for a rebuild on the ZF6 in my L322 and I'd much rather upgrade to the ZF8

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

so I know I'm a new member and responding to an old thread...and I'm in the wrong subforum... but have you explored the possibility of updating the ZF6 in the L322 5L Supercharged trucks to the ZF8s that were offered in the European diesels?

Its about time for a rebuild on the ZF6 in my L322 and I'd much rather upgrade to the ZF8
Yes we have looked into it.

It's a similar scenario as for the others but actually worse because you will need a custom torque converter, &/or custom flex plate.

The torque converter from the L405/L494 and other JLR models with Bosch engine management does not work with the earlier cars that have Denso engine management.
Specifically the flexplate is used as the trigger wheel for the crank position sensor, and this is totally different between Denso and Bosch cars.

The torque converter from a L405/L494 5.0L 8HP (Bosch) doesn't bolt up to the flexplate of the 5.0L L322, and the flexplate from the L405/L494 doesn't work with the Denso crank position sensor, for a couple of reasons.

You need an 8HP specifically from a 2013MY L405 5.0SC, the later ones with Stop/Start are a problem in older vehicle.
You need the Torque Coverter / Flexplate solved (we have a solution actually).
You need the console top, GSM, terrain response panel from a 2011-2012 L322 4.4SDV8, also the emergency neutral lever & cable
There are a lot of wiring changes in the console, and some additional wires run to the TCM from the console, change the plug at the TCM.
Even if you get the console harness from an 8HP vehicle the body side needs the changes.
If your 5.0SC L322 is prior to VIN CA390072 then it doesn't have paddle shifters, you'd probably want to add them too
The software in the BCM & IPC need to be updated to 2012MY versions.
You need a custom tune in the TCM as the diff ratios are different between 6HP & 8HP cars.
You need a custom tune in the PCM to solve some issues with the trans swap.
You need some changes to the CCF as well.


If money is no object then sure, it's all doable. But you could probably rebuild a couple of 6HP's for what it'll all cost.

[landroveraddict]

Yes we have looked into it.

It's a similar scenario as for the others but actually worse because you will need a custom torque converter, &/or custom flex plate.

The torque converter from the L405/L494 and other JLR models with Bosch engine management does not work with the earlier cars that have Denso engine management.
Specifically the flexplate is used as the trigger wheel for the crank position sensor, and this is totally different between Denso and Bosch cars.

The torque converter from a L405/L494 5.0L 8HP (Bosch) doesn't bolt up to the flexplate of the 5.0L L322, and the flexplate from the L405/L494 doesn't work with the Denso crank position sensor, for a couple of reasons.

You need an 8HP specifically from a 2013MY L405 5.0SC, the later ones with Stop/Start are a problem in older vehicle.
You need the Torque Coverter / Flexplate solved (we have a solution actually).
You need the console top, GSM, terrain response panel from a 2011-2012 L322 4.4SDV8, also the emergency neutral lever & cable
There are a lot of wiring changes in the console, and some additional wires run to the TCM from the console, change the plug at the TCM.
Even if you get the console harness from an 8HP vehicle the body side needs the changes.
If your 5.0SC L322 is prior to VIN CA390072 then it doesn't have paddle shifters, you'd probably want to add them too
The software in the BCM & IPC need to be updated to 2012MY versions.
You need a custom tune in the TCM as the diff ratios are different between 6HP & 8HP cars.
You need a custom tune in the PCM to solve some issues with the trans swap.
You need some changes to the CCF as well.


If money is no object then sure, it's all doable. But you could probably rebuild a couple of 6HP's for what it'll all cost.

Is there a better place to discuss this with you? I'd be willing to spend some considerable money to make this happen and would like to discuss further.

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

Yep, go to Transmission Conversion - Old Jaguar (https://oldjaguar.com/product/transmission-conversion/)

And use the contact us form