Axial rose joint vs original rubber bushes

[PeterOZ]

Gents,
question to those in the know. I am looking at replacing all the arms on my D3.

At present in my shopping list I have all original spec parts using Lemforder gear.

For the upper rear arms there is a kit of bits that uses Lemforder arm for the RRS Sport and according to the vendor these use a axial rose joint in lieu of the normal rubber bush.

Trying to find out if this is best option or not? From what I have read that will make the old girl feel "planted", better performance but perhaps at the expense of increased noise and vibration, harsher ride.

Anyone have experience of these types?

KIT615HD- L Original Lemforder Rear Upper Arm Kit Discovery 3 + OEM Bolt Kits

These are the arms as fitted to the Range Rover Sport L320. The metal frames are identical but the bushes are different, most importantly the rear bush is an axial design working like a bearing rather than a fixed bush, this is the usual failure point on the standard Discovery arm.

ta

cheers
Peter

[loanrangie]

No experience but the original rubber ones lasted this long so I'd stick with them rather than an unknown.

[PeterOZ]

No experience but the original rubber ones lasted this long so I'd stick with them rather than an unknown.

and anything that may lead to a harsher ride puts me off, I don't want to be a boy racer doing the tokyo drift!!

[loanrangie]

and anything that may lead to a harsher ride puts me off, I don't want to be a boy racer doing the tokyo drift!!Just add some 22's,fully Sik bro.

[PeterOZ]

Just add some 22's,fully Sik bro.


bwhahahha and tyres 3mm thick doof doof doof yo yo

[DiscoJeffster]

I have them and they’re great. No additional NVH.

[PeterOZ]

I have them and they’re great. No additional NVH.

what was the difference you found with them?

[DiscoJeffster]

what was the difference you found with them?

I didn’t study them too much. They’re still a bush with rubber, but a different design.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Gents,
question to those in the know. I am looking at replacing all the arms on my D3.

At present in my shopping list I have all original spec parts using Lemforder gear.

For the upper rear arms there is a kit of bits that uses Lemforder arm for the RRS Sport and according to the vendor these use a axial rose joint in lieu of the normal rubber bush.

Trying to find out if this is best option or not? From what I have read that will make the old girl feel "planted", better performance but perhaps at the expense of increased noise and vibration, harsher ride.

Anyone have experience of these types?

KIT615HD- L Original Lemforder Rear Upper Arm Kit Discovery 3 + OEM Bolt Kits

These are the arms as fitted to the Range Rover Sport L320. The metal frames are identical but the bushes are different, most importantly the rear bush is an axial design working like a bearing rather than a fixed bush, this is the usual failure point on the standard Discovery arm.

ta

cheers
Peter
Exactly the same kit I put on, no issues. I think tyre pressure affects nvh a lot more than these bushes do.

[goingbush]

Rose joints are illegal in Australia .
.

[PeterOZ]

Rose joints are illegal in Australia .
.

any evidence of that?

[goingbush]

any evidence of that?

Vehicle standards bulletin, National code of practice VSB NCOP14


Unless you consult an engineer and have him assess and sign off on your modification and blue plate your vehicle, then they may be allowed in a individual case basis.

[PeterOZ]

Vehicle standards bulletin, National code of practice VSB NCOP14


Unless you consult an engineer and have him assess and sign off on your modification and blue plate your vehicle, then they may be allowed in a individual case basis.

Ok noted, I am still leaning towards the original spec lemforder arms.

[DiscoJeffster]

Ok noted, I am still leaning towards the original spec lemforder arms.

The upgraded arms do not have rose joints. Use whichever arms you want.

[PeterOZ]

The upgraded arms do not have rose joints. Use whichever arms you want.

according to the supplier they do. Hence the nature of my thread on this subject.

[DiscoJeffster]

according to the supplier they do. Hence the nature of my thread on this subject.

I’m not going to argue the point. I’ll simply repeat I bought these specific arms and they have bushes made of rubber. They’re a different design, yes. They are not a fixed or adjustable rose joint.

Buy whichever makes you happy.

[PeterOZ]

I’m not going to argue the point. I’ll simply repeat I bought these specific arms and they have bushes made of rubber. They’re a different design, yes. They are not a fixed or adjustable rose joint.

Buy whichever makes you happy.

and I am telling you what the supplier has told me, if you don't believe it then then it is your problem and you take it up with them not me.

[Eric SDV6SE]

These are the arms as fitted to the Range Rover Sport L320. The metal frames are identical but the bushes are different, most importantly the rear bush is an axial design working like a bearing rather than a fixed bush, this is the usual failure point on the standard Discovery arm.][/QUOTE]

The above is directly copied from the AF website. It does not say "these arms are fitted with a rose joint". As these are also fitted as standard to the RRS, they must have adr compliance s otherwise they would all be unroadworthy here in Australia.

As I said, I fitted these arms to my D4, and I honestly could not tell by looking at the bush that it was any different than the oem d4 arms.

There must be a design tweak inside the bush, but it is definitely not a rose joint (aka spherical or ball joint) like a tie rod end.

[PeterOZ]

179009

According to Paul Redding of AF they are a rose joint. Don't believe it then go argue the point with him. [bigwhistle]

[DiscoJeffster]

All this discussion was over the rear bushes on those arms, not the pivot bush at the hub side. The front pivot is a rose joint on these arms, yes. I didn’t look at the old ones to compare that bush but it must have been a solid rubber one. Either way, the RRS is complied with them on so they are legal on that car. If we’re going to argue whether anyone will know you’ve got a RRS arm on your D4, that’s a convo I’m not going to enter into.

[PeterOZ]

people will argue over anything, seems to be the nature here.

[DiscoJeffster]

people will argue over anything, seems to be the nature here.

Yeah I’m sorry. I apologise. I think it didn’t cross my mine that the front pivot was a bearing was because I thought it was the same on the old ones and all of AF’s commentary was on the rear bushes. It would have been helpful in the discussion - I think AF need to update their description.

[Eric SDV6SE]

"But Officer, it's a LandRover, don't you see" [bigrolf]

[PeterOZ]

all good mate take care [bighmmm]

[josh.huber]

The illegal bit I think comes to modifying or the standard design. Not the design where the Rose joint is held Inside a steel cage. If you google rose joint the are plenty of photos of drifter cars etc putting them in for extra adjustment and fast.. plenty of trucks have a spherical Bush design contained in rubber, nylon etc that's still called a rose joint. I think the issue is.. The rose joint you google. When it fails.. Well. People get hurt. But these bushes are held inside of a metal housing casing after the bush, so less likely to end in pain.

[josh.huber]

I rebushed my D4 rear arms not long ago and one of the rear bushes was definitely a rose style. I drilled out the old bushes and they were on an angle and had a huge alloy shell.