New defender order

[jb007]

Hi All

I am considering placing an order for a Defender P400 S with couple of options and I called two dealers in Sydney to discuss pricing and got contradictory information:
1) One dealer mentioned that LR is not accepting any orders for the S (and lower) variants for any of the models and this includes Defender so my options would be to look at SE as starting point
2) Second dealer mentioned that I should be able to place an order for any variant advertised on the LR website but mentioned that MY23.5 specifications will be released shortly and LR will advise what will change (features and/or pricing) from the MY23 specifications

Has anyone else heard about LR only accepting orders for SE variants or above? Or is the dealer pushing me towards the higher spec?


Thanks
JB

[Summiitt]

I agree with the second dealer, if its on the au website, it should be able to be ordered. I can recommend Macaurthur Landrover in sydney-Isaac Taylor, he was good and honest with pricing etc, and I'm towards Cooma, so not that local, but an easy transaction

[one_iota]

I agree with the second dealer, if its on the au website, it should be able to be ordered. I can recommend Macaurthur Landrover in sydney-Isaac Taylor, he was good and honest with pricing etc, and I'm towards Cooma, so not that local, but an easy transaction

My experience in ordering suggests that the offer on the website is not a guarantee of what will be delivered. When I ordered the dealer and I looked at what JLR were able to offer at that specific point in time. It is a moveable feast. At a point in the process, the offer will be confirmed with specific details. You can accept the offer or back out. Given the state of material supply and lead times it is almost impossible to know.

For example on ordering a D300 SE: The larger centre screen was no longer standard or optional. The matrix headlights option was likewise no longer available.

[mowog]

I have a P400 S 110 on Order that was before all the web site updates. The contract states a MY23 with the big screen and a few other options. I did contact my dealer when I saw the MY23.5 changes its still not clear what I will get built

[jb007]

The continuously moving target worries me a bit and the fact that what you sign-up for in the contract may change until the build is locked in.
I know its unlikely but what if LR decides of offer air suspension as an option on P400 S and they decide to charge extra for having air suspension!

I see the deposit as an order fees to get in the queue but the exact pricing / spec will be determined closer to the build date. Until then the specs / pricing can change and the customer needs to decide if they want to pay extra (if the price goes up) or cancel the order.

PS: I spoke to the dealer in Parramatta today and the sales person informed me that parts supply seems to be getting slightly better eg availability of larger screens. He also thinks that the larger screen will become standard to minimise variance between models. Will wait and see what comes through for MY23.5

[Tombie]

Happened even with the old Defender.

We placed a build order just before the next MY release was due.

What we ordered couldn’t be delivered as they changed the spec in the new MY.
We had to re-configure.


Personally, wait for the new MY spec to be released and place order then.

[Summiitt]

The continuously moving target worries me a bit and the fact that what you sign-up for in the contract may change until the build is locked in.
I know its unlikely but what if LR decides of offer air suspension as an option on P400 S and they decide to charge extra for having air suspension!

I see the deposit as an order fees to get in the queue but the exact pricing / spec will be determined closer to the build date. Until then the specs / pricing can change and the customer needs to decide if they want to pay extra (if the price goes up) or cancel the order.

PS: I spoke to the dealer in Parramatta today and the sales person informed me that parts supply seems to be getting slightly better eg availability of larger screens. He also thinks that the larger screen will become standard to minimise variance between models. Will wait and see what comes through for MY23.5

My 90 was ordered in April 21 with a 7 month build, it turned out to be a 12 month build, however I gained quite a few updates that I didn't ask for, a 22MY comp plate and they held the price agreed to in 21, so I was pretty happy

[laughto]

I've had my order in for a D300 SE since late May '21 and still has not been built. It is currently in queue for a build for this month, however has been put back a week - again.

Since our original order, we have been thru a MY22 -> MY23 model change with price rise (which dealer absorbed), spec changes and components not able to be supplied (interactive display and 11.5 touchscreen amongst others). I'm not confident that our current Built date of 24/6 will see the light of day, and may push us to a MY23.5 model, with whatever changes that may bring.

The way I see it, the long and short of it given the current delays, you are unlikely to end up with the car you originally signed up for unless you are very lucky. If ours is built in the next month, by the time we get it, it will be close to 18 months! Lots of things change in that time.

[jb007]

Thanks every one for providing their own personal insights - I will test drive both the D300 and P400 models next week and will base my decision on that.

I can wait up to 18 months for the vehicle to be built and delivered as the lease on my current vehicle expires end of 2023 and based on feedback from others it looks like I will be waiting that long and who knows which model year will be built/delivered then - probably MY24!

In terms of the engine choice (D300 vs P400) I am still not sure which way to go. I have listed few points about my (foreseeable) needs and I am hoping to get some inputs from other members who have gone through a similar decision:
- I have owned diesels over last 10 years: Discovery 4 SDV6 for 6 years and BMW X5 30D for last 4 years and I have been happy with the diesels for the grunt and fuel economy
- My personal situation has changed over last couple of years and I do more short trips now (kids school drop-offs and pick-ups, kids sports, etc) than before. So most of my driving will be in the city with occasional longer trips - say 3 to 4 trips a year
- I have done 45K kms in 4 years in my current vehicle - but COVID is partially to blame for that. Realistically I would do no more than 15K kms a year
- In terms of 4WD I don't plan to do any extreme stuff - just driving on beach, to the camp sites, easier fire trails, etc. In other words I am not looking to challenge my ability or risk damage to my vehicle but still have occasional off-road fun
- I don't plan to go to remote touring but if I go it will be once in a lifetime trip and I am happy to carry petrol if required
- I don't plan to tow anything
- I plan to keep the Defender for a longer time frame - lets say 10 years (in fact I still miss my Discovery 4 and I only sold it as I had to go overseas for work)


Based on these points, I am seriously considering switching to a petrol (P400) this time around as I have read (on various forums) about oil dilution (what ever that means), DPF related issues on the diesel engines when they are mostly driven in the urban situations. Based on my personal experience, I have been driving my X5 30D (also with an inline 6 diesel) in urban situations and I have noticed that the condition based servicing (CBS) suggests oil changes more frequently than recommended by BMW so my hypothesis is that shorter trips are causing the system to detect "something" in the oil to suggest more frequent oil changes which can't be good for the long term. Not sure what its doing to the DPF!


On the other hand, the fuel economy of P400 worries me a bit - I have read that it varies from 11 L / 100kms to 16 L / 100kms (far from the 9.9 L / 100kms advertised by LR).
I know that fuel economy is proportionally tied to the way you drive and I am a fairly conservative driver - my current average on X5 30D is 8.6 L / 100kms (over 45K kms). I don't expect the Defender P400 to come close to the economy of the X5 but I don't want it to be twice as bad either :)


Can I please get some real life / long term fuel economy figures for the Defender 110 P400 so that I can get some idea from real users and not review websites.

Sorry for a bit of a brain dump but all the points above do not make the decision easy! And I have not even started thinking about the options!

[laughto]

Sure sounds like a P400 to me. Only reason I opted for the D300 was because of some extended trips towing a can. Otherwise petrol engine would be my choice based on the points you raise.

[ozscott]

I don't plan on spending the coin but I don't like the new crop of LR diesels. They sound good on paper but for me it would be petrol for the sort of jobs you are doing. If I was going to use as a tourer....well different brand when diesel is required.

Cheers

[mowog]

Thanks every one for providing their own personal insights - I will test drive both the D300 and P400 models next week and will base my decision on that.

!

I drove both as well. I am going to tow a caravan so the D300 was the original pick. However... Given what our day to day use would be DPF issues would be a problem. I ended up ordering a P400 S 110 a D300 would have had to be an SE which drives the price up.

I will be fitting a long range tank

[CrustyNoodle]

Would you consider the P300? It solves both the fuel use concerns and the diesel/DPF concerns AND you can get it with 18" wheels!

Doesn't look like the P400E is available on the website (basically a hybrid version on the P300) but that would definitely be the way to go if it was available and given your requirements.

[SKL]

My 90 was ordered in April 21 with a 7 month build, it turned out to be a 12 month build, however I gained quite a few updates that I didn't ask for, a 22MY comp plate and they held the price agreed to in 21, so I was pretty happy

When I ordered my model on 19 August 2020 it was the 4 cylinder 2L D240S, when I went to take delivery of the vehicle on 23 March 2021 it was a 6 cylinder D250S due to them running out of the 2L motors. It is not cost me any more, however I was not given the choice so I guess they had to honour their agreement.

[jb007]

Would you consider the P300? It solves both the fuel use concerns and the diesel/DPF concerns AND you can get it with 18" wheels!

Doesn't look like the P400E is available on the website (basically a hybrid version on the P300) but that would definitely be the way to go if it was available and given your requirements.

Thanks for the suggestion - P300 makes sense on paper but as good as 4-cylinder turbo petrol engines are these days, my (old / illogical) mind still believes that for such a large vehicle I need a 6 cylinder engine especially if I plan to keep this vehicle for 10 years. Also, based on the reviews I have read the fuel economy on P300 is not dramatically better than P400 but for sure small amounts add up over the years.

Having said this, I will try to test drive the P300 to make sure I compare all the options before committing.

[jb007]

When I ordered my model on 19 August 2020 it was the 4 cylinder 2L D240S, when I went to take delivery of the vehicle on 23 March 2021 it was a 6 cylinder D250S due to them running out of the 2L motors. It is not cost me any more, however I was not given the choice so I guess they had to honour their agreement.

This is interesting - some manufacturers honour the signed contracts or even reduce the price if the price drops. My wife ordered a Tesla Model 3 in 2021 with $100 deposit and one week later, the price dropped by $1,000 so Tesla Australia issued a new contract with the reduced price. I have also heard that if the price was to go up between ordering and delivery, Tesla does not pass the price increase to the customers.

I specifically asked a LR dealer what would happen if the price was to go up between ordering a Defender and receiving the vehicle, I was told that I would need to pay for the increase in price or cancel the order. I think with the current supply vs demand situation, the dealers have the negotiating power.

As much as some people hate Tesla's fixed price sales model, it is transparent and clear eg the Dealer Delivery charges are fixed for everyone

[Summiitt]

This is interesting - some manufacturers honour the signed contracts or even reduce the price if the price drops. My wife ordered a Tesla Model 3 in 2021 with $100 deposit and one week later, the price dropped by $1,000 so Tesla Australia issued a new contract with the reduced price. I have also heard that if the price was to go up between ordering and delivery, Tesla does not pass the price increase to the customers.

I specifically asked a LR dealer what would happen if the price was to go up between ordering a Defender and receiving the vehicle, I was told that I would need to pay for the increase in price or cancel the order. I think with the current supply vs demand situation, the dealers have the negotiating power.

As much as some people hate Tesla's fixed price sales model, it is transparent and clear eg the Dealer Delivery charges are fixed for everyone

Im surprised by the dealers comment as my vehicle went up by about $20k, yet LR held the agreed contract price 12 months on, when I picked it up, they said make sure I contact them if I was looking to sell or trade!..Interestingly I have a new prime mover on order, 12 month wait- Kenworth won't hold the price until delivery, whereas Volvo will hold the agreed build price at the time of signing the order..its a deal breaker I believe in all markets and something buyers should make sure they have absolute clarity on-in writing

[zilch]

Can I please get some real life / long term fuel economy figures for the Defender 110 P400 so that I can get some idea from real users and not review websites.

our P400 SE is now 21 months young and has spent time in around Sydney and the Whitsundays, so
about 70% of its time urbanish and 30% on road trips. Over the period it has done 30,000 kms, and showing an
average fuel consumption of 12.3l, the LR figure seems reasonably accurate.

Sydney driving showed an average of about 13.5l over the last six month period, long trips to North QLD about
10.3-10.9l on long trips with average speed over 2,000 km’s in the 90 kph range. If you do not drive it like you
stole it I have found I get a reasonable return for a 395hp beast, very short trips (a few k’s) can put the
consumption up into the 16l range, but the overall average irons it out.

[jb007]

our P400 SE is now 21 months young and has spent time in around Sydney and the Whitsundays, so
about 70% of its time urbanish and 30% on road trips. Over the period it has done 30,000 kms, and showing an
average fuel consumption of 12.3l, the LR figure seems reasonably accurate.

Sydney driving showed an average of about 13.5l over the last six month period, long trips to North QLD about
10.3-10.9l on long trips with average speed over 2,000 km’s in the 90 kph range. If you do not drive it like you
stole it I have found I get a reasonable return for a 395hp beast, very short trips (a few k’s) can put the
consumption up into the 16l range, but the overall average irons it out.

This is gold - exactly the kind of information I am after. I can cope with the average figure of 12.3 L / 100 kms.
My situation is probably 80% urban and 20% road trips so would be a bit worse.

I do wonder how LR got the "combined" fuel economy figure of 9.9 L / 100 kms when the real world usage is around 10.6 (avg) on highway speeds.

Thanks once again.

[Tombie]

Like all manufacturers the test is done to a standard and that is all.

On a rolling road. No wind resistance and a controlled cycle.

The only thing you can measure the fuel consumption tests against is others identical test.

Essentially indicative only.

[jb007]

I also wonder if All Terrain tyres reduce the economy as all the Defenders I have seen so far (only 5) had All Terrain tyres fitted.
Perhaps the All Season tyres are better option for on-road (urban and highway) driving!

[Tombie]

You are correct, most ATs will immediate add 0.5-1 litre per hundred.

[mowog]

I just put my 20's back on my Discovery 4 with 100% road tyres. I also took my Roof Rack of and I picked 3-4L / 100 improvement.

[zilch]

I also wonder if All Terrain tyres reduce the economy as all the Defenders I have seen so far (only 5) had All Terrain tyres fitted.
Perhaps the All Season tyres are better option for on-road (urban and highway) driving!


mine is fitted with 18” Tuff Ant simpson alloys and Falken Wildpeak AT3W 275/65R18, I had the rear brake caliper
conversion with the ADR certification. Aussie P400’s come with the Goodyear AT adventures unless you ask
your dealer to change to all seasons

[jb007]

I went for a short test drive of the P400 S today - only got about 10 mins as the dealer had an appointment with another customer for a pickup.
But I will go for a longer test drive next week.

The test drive was very interesting and different to what I would have expected - when I applied the accelerator after stopping at red lights, there was a bit of a turbo lag (even with start/stop turned off), the power kicked in and the vehicle took off like a rocket! But once I got moving, the power delivery was very smooth to maintain the speed.

I wonder if this is an issue with the specific vehicle I test drove as it was a 2020 model - perhaps it was trashed around a bit or is this the way the power is delivered on P400 engine? Is this an issue during start-stop traffic?

Note - this may be because I am used to driving a diesel SUV and I am used to its power delivery.

[DiscoJeffster]

Sounds like every car these days with electronic throttles where the computer decides you can’t possibly want to accelerate that fast. I doubt it’s turbo lag, but progressive throttle application buy the ECU

[zilch]

No delay on acceleration on ours, the electric supercharger element should minimise any turbo
delay by moving the P400 at a reasonable rapid rate

[mowog]

There was no lag in the P400 I drove. Where I did find the D300 a bit doughy.

[jb007]

I went for an extended test drive (30 mins) on both the P400 and D300 today in various conditions - mainly in start/stop Sydney traffic with a bit of freeway and a bit of hilly roads and I have come to the conclusion that both engines are great (I would pick any of them to be honest) and the difference comes down to how they are driven (in addition to the obvious petrol vs diesel differences).

As I mentioned in previous post, I have been driving Diesel vehicles for last decade and my "muscle memory" has developed to drive Diesel SUVs as follows:
- when the light goes green: let go of the brake and press the accelerator, feel the lag for like 0.5 seconds, and then gradually keep pressing the accelerator. My definition of "gradual" comes from my pilots training and the throttle is applied as: 10%,20%,30%......
- when driving in slow moving traffic, keep enough gap from the car in front to use engine braking (to some extent) to maintain the speed and gap
- when accelerating or going uphill, again, don't just smash the accelerator pedal but feel the gradual pull / torque provided by the Diesel engines to get moving and reach the desired speeds

In summary, everything happens in a controlled, gradual, steady and linear way - some may call this "mushy" way!

This is exactly how I drove the D300 and felt more comfortable as I am used to driving this way. I also noticed that the transmission in the D300 was not changing gears that often - again as expected from a Diesel engine with plenty of torque down the rev range.


When I drove the P400 the first time around, I was trying to drive it in a similar way which was not ideal so, this time around, I changed my driving style to be a bit more "engaged", "active" and "commanding". For example,
- when taking off the lights, applying the throttle slightly more aggressively - I don't mean smash the pedal to the floor but rather aim for power application as: 25%, 50%, 75%,... This worked really well and got rid of the "lag" I experienced the first time around
- maintaining constant speed was interesting and I felt that it required a bit of work (over the D300) as the engine had very little engine braking so I had to use my right foot a bit more with constant applications of the brake and accelerator pedals to maintain the gap and speed
- driving on the highway and going uphill was so easy on the P400 and the vehicle effortlessly got upto speed and maintained the speed

I did notice that the transmission was changing more gears than the D300 to stay on the power curve - as expected from the Petrol engines.


Based on this experience, as I mentioned earlier, both the engines are great and need to be driven accordingly.
I think after couple of days, I can get used to driving the P400 and all the lag I experienced on the P400 during my first test drive was down to the way I was driving and not the engine.

[jb007]

Also, MY2023.5 specifications guide is available on Land Rover website

https://www.landrover.com.au/Images/23.5MY_Defender_Spec_Guide_V1_090622_tcm296-960034.pdf

[mowog]

Also, MY2023.5 specifications guide is available on Land Rover website

https://www.landrover.com.au/Images/23.5MY_Defender_Spec_Guide_V1_090622_tcm296-960034.pdf

That's interesting on my contract I have been charged for items that are a no cost option on the list.

[jb007]

That's interesting on my contract I have been charged for items that are a no cost option on the list.

When did you place the order? Perhaps these items were chargeable in the previous specifications or when you placed the order.
If you will be getting the MY23.5 then I suggest you have a word with your dealer.

I went to the dealers with this specification list printed and options I wanted (NCO and paid) highlighted to ensure they listed these on the quotes - even things like 11.4"touchscreen. One of the dealers said that all new Defenders come with 11.4" but the specifications clearly lists it as NCO so I asked for it to be explicitly listed.

I understand things may change due to parts supply but I would rather be as clear upfront as possible than to rely on dealers information.

[jb007]

I have almost finalized the specifications for my vehicle - P400 SE and would like to get opinions from current owners on the following options:

1) Matrix LED Headlights (over Premium LED) - SE comes standard with Premium LED headlights with Matrix as option. I am sure both these are more than adequate for the vehicle but I am considering Matrix LEDs as I have these on my current vehicle and I am happy with them. Having said this, I read on another forum that some users don't find Matrix LEDs bright enough in the Defenders. I assume this is because matrix technology is doing its thing and blocking out lights in segments leading to the illusion of reduced light - not sure.

Does anyone have any negative feedback on going with Matrix over Premium Headlights for Defender?


2) Clearsight mirror - I have heard mixed feedback from people re Clearsight - I can see the benefit of Clearsight mirror but not sure if it will be something I will use that often. One of the vehicles I demoed had Clearsight mirror and it looked a bit strange - not as clear as a smartphone screen in terms of brightness/colours probably because the screen also has to act as a mirror. I switched to normal mirror and used it for the rest of the drive.

Unless there is a compelling reason, I will skip on Clearsight mirror and put that money towards Matrix headlights.


3) Spare wheel cover - I can get body coloured spare wheel cover when ordering the vehicle (I believe only silver is available as an accessory after purchase). I like the wheel cover for aesthetic reasons but also concerned that I will be taking off the cover every time (or every second time) when washing the car to clean any dirt/debris behind the spare wheel.

Is this something I should include or just don't bother putting a wheel cover on the spare wheel?


4) 19in vs 20in wheels - I read through a few posts and clear suggestion is that I should get 20in wheels as there are more options for tyres in this size. I am not the type of person who will experiment with different tyre sizes as 70-80% of my driving will be on-road. This also means I will keep using whatever wheel size I pick when ordering the vehicle and this is playing on my mind a little bit. Part of my thinking is that I should get the 19in wheels knowing that I have picked the most capable option (without mods) for the vehicle and I should be able to find Goodyear Wranger All Terrain Tyres in sizes 255/60 R20 and 255/65 R19 in Sydney. On the other hand, I believe 20in tyres should be capable of handling driving on sand / beaches, fire trails, light off-road work and probably more aesthetically suitable for the vehicle.

Should I just stick to 20in wheels and hope these will be adequate for my needs or should I go for 19in wheels?

[zilch]

I have almost finalized the specifications for my vehicle - P400 SE and would like to get opinions from current owners on the following options:

Should I just stick to 20in wheels and hope these will be adequate for my needs or should I go for 19in wheels?

the LR OEM Goodyears are not great (sidewalls of Swiss cheese strength) and 19” will practically limit you to
those, at least 20” will give you decent options such as BFG KO2’s, Falken etc which have far more off road
durability.. I made the mistake of going 19” and paid handsomely to move to 18” in the end

[jb007]

the LR OEM Goodyears are not great (sidewalls of Swiss cheese strength) and 19” will practically limit you to
those, at least 20” will give you decent options such as BFG KO2’s, Falken etc which have far more off road
durability.. I made the mistake of going 19” and paid handsomely to move to 18” in the end

Thanks zilch - I actually read various comments from you on this topic.

I tried to look for 20in AT tyres in LR size (255/60 R20) but couldn't find many options and BFG KO2 are not available in this size. Looking at BFG's website, they have 275/55 R20 which (according to tyre size calculator) should give overall similar size - 32in.

Is this legal from insurance and warranty perspective?

Sorry I am not an expert in tyre sizes and in the past just kept the same tyre size as OEM tyres.

[zilch]

Thanks zilch - I actually read various comments from you on this topic.

I tried to look for 20in AT tyres in LR size (255/60 R20) but couldn't find many options and BFG KO2 are not available in this size. Looking at BFG's website, they have 275/55 R20 which (according to tyre size calculator) should give overall similar size - 32in.

Is this legal from insurance and warranty perspective?

Sorry I am not an expert in tyre sizes and in the past just kept the same tyre size as OEM tyres.

if you are on Facebook join the “Australian new defender owners group”, plenty of chat on there in regard to
best options for rubber

[one_iota]

Thanks zilch - I actually read various comments from you on this topic.

I tried to look for 20in AT tyres in LR size (255/60 R20) but couldn't find many options and BFG KO2 are not available in this size. Looking at BFG's website, they have 275/55 R20 which (according to tyre size calculator) should give overall similar size - 32in.

Is this legal from insurance and warranty perspective?

Sorry I am not an expert in tyre sizes and in the past just kept the same tyre size as OEM tyres.

FWIW

19" or 20" wheel option (oh goody another tyre thread) (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l663-defender/289702-19-20-wheel-option-oh-goody-another-tyre-thread.html)

The dealer mine will be delivered to also does tyres. I'll be asking them to fit KO2's so if there is a warranty issue they'll let me know. As for size it is the width that could be a problem on full lock

[zilch]

FWIW

19" or 20" wheel option (oh goody another tyre thread) (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l663-defender/289702-19-20-wheel-option-oh-goody-another-tyre-thread.html)

The dealer mine will be delivered to also does tyres. I'll be asking them to fit KO2's so if there is a warranty issue they'll let me know. As for size it is the width that could be a problem on full lock

I see your quote and raise you an owners search on the Ozzie fb group [happycry]

Log in to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1891561444279987/search/?q=Tyres)

;)

[Eric SDV6SE]

the LR OEM Goodyears are not great (sidewalls of Swiss cheese strength) and 19” will practically limit you to
those, at least 20” will give you decent options such as BFG KO2’s, Falken etc which have far more off road
durability.. I made the mistake of going 19” and paid handsomely to move to 18” in the end
Um, then why am I running Maxxis 980s in LT spec at 19” ? There is at least 6 or more options in AT tyres available in 19”. 50,000km and going strong…

[one_iota]

Um, then why am I running Maxxis 980s in LT spec at 19” ? There is at least 6 or more options in AT tyres available in 19”. 50,000km and going strong…

But not if you aim to match the standard tyre size of 255/65 R19. The Maxiss are 255/55 R19. Here is the comparison from the Tempe Tyres site:

179450

[zilch]

Um, then why am I running Maxxis 980s in LT spec at 19” ? There is at least 6 or more options in AT tyres available in 19”. 50,000km and going strong…

that are designed to fit the new Defender size in tyres ? I would be interested to find out and enlighten
the owners on the social media forums as everyone believes that 19” is pretty limited in terms of choice

[Graeme]

Even the D5's 255/60R19 (31") is too small for the L663.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Fair 'Nuff.

[zilch]

Even the D5's 255/60R19 (31") is too small for the L663.

I put this picture up on a Facebook ND owners group the other month showing the difference in wheel and tyre
size on LR Models. The right one is a 255/50 R19 GG AT spare for the wife’s 320 RRS and the 275/65 R18 spare
off the Defender.. a bit of a difference

179484179485

[mowog]

I just had an update kinda.... My order is still in the holding pool :-(