D4 2015 Alternator loading

[Sandy]

I am about to choose a DC-DC charger for my D4 (build 2015). I was planning on having a 40A or 50A Redarc installed. Can any wise ones advise on what capacity my alternator may have and what typical amperage draw the D$ might have under normal operating conditions. I was told by the autoelec that a 50A unit might be a mistake. Thank you in advance.

[drivesafe]

Why are you fitting a DC/DC to your D4?

[Sandy]

Why are you fitting a DC/DC to your D4?

Hi Tim, earlier this year you and others were very helpful in providing advice on a dual battery system. I decided to go with a lithium battery setup. I don't really want to go back over that. With covid delays I am only just getting around to getting the back of the truck fitted out.

So in trying to work out the size of the charger, I thought it would be good to try and understand what the alternator capacity was.

[kelvo]

I thought it would be good to try and understand what the alternator capacity was.
180Amp for the Diesel engines (TDV6/SDV6), and 150Amp for the petrol engine (SCV6).

[Sandy]

180Amp for the Diesel engines (TDV6/SDV6), and 150Amp for the petrol engine (SCV6).

Thanks Kelvo - yes a diesel.

Any thoughts on typical operating load on the alternator?

[drivesafe]

Thanks Kelvo - yes a diesel.

Any thoughts on typical operating load on the alternator?
As D4 draws up to 40 amps, with a 150 amp alternator, you have up to 110 amp available, depending on your motors RPM.

A 40 amp DC/DC, depending on the brand, will draw up to 60 or more amps.

so you have a huge margin to work with.

[Sandy]

As D4 draws up to 40 amps, with a 150 amp alternator, you have up to 110 amp available, depending on your motors RPM.

A 40 amp DC/DC, depending on the brand, will draw up to 60 or more amps.

so you have a huge margin to work with.

If I have the 180 amp alternator - diesel I will have even more. Thank you again Tim.

[drivesafe]

If I have the 180 amp alternator - diesel I will have even more. Thank you again Tim.
Hi Sandy and you do have a 180 amp alternator. I was just using the 150 as a worst case.

[Tombie]

Much to Tim’s frustration [emoji56] I fitted a Dc/Dc a while ago and I’m shifting to Lithium in both camper and Aux in vehicle to make some under bonnet space.

I have a 50a version and no issues at all with it, or the 65a worth of frontal auxiliary lighting I run!

[drivesafe]

Much to Tim’s frustration [emoji56] I fitted a Dc/Dc a while ago and I’m shifting to Lithium in both camper and Aux in vehicle to make some under bonnet space.

I have a 50a version and no issues at all with it, or the 65a worth of frontal auxiliary lighting I run!

Hi Tombie, it's not the lithium batteries I dislike, it's the fact that you have to use a DC/DC device in any vehicle fitted with a SMART alternator, to be able to charge the lithuim battery.

This may surprise you but I have beed running a 100Ah lithium battery in my Tiguan for the past 18 months.

I am wrapped with the results of the testing so far, and the biggest plus is how well my cranking battery is being maintained.

My guess is that not only should the Lithium last at least 10 years, but I reckon I will get at least 10 years out of my lead acid cranking battery.

The difference between our systems is that I neither need nor would I ever use a DC/DC device. They are just too slow at recharging.

Because I can and have deactivated the SMRT alternator function, I have adapted one of my isolators to control the setup and charge the lithium direct off the alternator.

The results are brilliant.

[gavinwibrow]

Hi Tombie, it's not the lithium batteries I dislike, it's the fact that you have to use a DC/DC device in any vehicle fitted with a SMART alternator, to be able to charge the lithuim battery.

This may surprise you but I have beed running a 100Ah lithium battery in my Tiguan for the past 18 months.

I am wrapped with the results of the testing so far, and the biggest plus is how well my cranking battery is being maintained.

My guess is that not only should the Lithium last at least 10 years, but I reckon I will get at least 10 years out of my lead acid cranking battery.

The difference between our systems is that I neither need nor would I ever use a DC/DC device. They are just too slow at recharging.

Because I can and have deactivated the SMRT alternator function, I have adapted one of my isolators to control the setup and charge the lithium direct off the alternator.

The results are brilliant.


So Tim, where to from here? Can your setup be used in D3/4 as for your setup, and/or for those of us with your dual battery setup, but wanting to use lithium in our campers and caravans?

[DiscoJeffster]

So Tim, where to from here? Can your setup be used in D3/4 as for your setup, and/or for those of us with your dual battery setup, but wanting to use lithium in our campers and caravans?

You can’t disable the smart alternator in a D4 so no.

[drivesafe]

So Tim, where to from here? Can your setup be used in D3/4 as for your setup, and/or for those of us with your dual battery setup, but wanting to use lithium in our campers and caravans?
Hi Gavin and using a DC/DC device to charge lithium batteries in a caravan or camper trailer or even in a motor home, is the perfect way to set up with any vehicle with a SMART alternator.

As DiscoJeffster posted, so far there is no way to be able to disengage the SMART alternator function in any Land Rover.

The other point is that all the research and testing I have done has not found a single in-car DC/DC + Lithium setup that can compete with one of my systems, but I have to compete with the grossly exaggerated advertising and misinformation that is used to pedal DC/DC and Lithium setups.

A perfect is this crap that every lithium battery seller uses, is the claim that lead acid batteries can not be discharged below 50%.

This is a blatant lie and I challenge anyone to find a lead acid battery manufacture that states this in their battery specs.

Most lead acid battery manufactures specifically state that their batteries can be cycled down to 20% SoC and some of the newer AGMs can be cycled down to 0% SoC.

Yet most Lithium batteries can not be cycled below 20%.

These DC/DC toy devices they sell here are, in my opinion, a waste of time and money, particularly if you are a heavy user of accessory power while free camping.

Both Sterling and ProMariner in the USA have versions of DC/DC device that go up to 400 amps.

Now while you don't need anything that big with a D4, but a 100 amp unit, used with the right lithium batteries, would give you a setup that would make using a Lithium batteries a true rival to my systems.

[scarry]

You can’t disable the smart alternator in a D4 so no.

The 3.0L did,but did the D4 2.7L have a smart alternator?

I cant remember mine ever charging much lower than 13.7V,so i doubt it,but stand to be corrected.

It also hardly ever went any higher than 13.9V.

[drivesafe]

Hi Paul, the 2.7L D4 actually has the D3 SMART alternator operation.

The D3 was probably one of the first vehicles in Australia to have a SMART alternator operation.

The D3 is not as SMART as the D4, but it still has a SMART alternator operation.

During the first 30 seconds after you start the motor on a D3, the vehicle analyses the condition of the Cranking battery and then sets the voltage of the alternator, based on Battery Condition and ambient temperature and will then operate at that voltage for the next 30 minutes. Then the voltage drops back to what ever setting the vehicle dictates.

It's a long story but here is a shortened version, not long after the D3 was introduced, I was supplied this and more info about Land Rovers new SMART alternator operation by LRAs Technology section, when they were trying to sort out problems being caused by other makes of isolator, and mine were not causing any problems.

[Sandy]

Much to Tim’s frustration [emoji56] I fitted a Dc/Dc a while ago and I’m shifting to Lithium in both camper and Aux in vehicle to make some under bonnet space.

I have a 50a version and no issues at all with it, or the 65a worth of frontal auxiliary lighting I run!

Hi Tombie, Thanks, that is good to know.

I am looking at the Redarc over the Enedrive atm. If you have fitted your charger in the vehicle - any issues with heat or noise (Enedrive has fan).

[Sandy]

Thanks for all the good advice everyone - I went with the 50A Redarc charger - Redarc advise me it might draw 60A under full boost operation - so with the intel from Tim, Tombie, kelvo and others - this indicates that that the alternator will have plenty to spare. Thanks to all. I am but a mechanical simpleton and really appreciate your inputs (but if you want some advice on ecology - I can help).

[Tombie]

Hi Tombie, Thanks, that is good to know.

I am looking at the Redarc over the Enedrive atm. If you have fitted your charger in the vehicle - any issues with heat or noise (Enedrive has fan).

None at all.
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[Sandy]

Apologies Tombie - I should have said fitted in the cab of the vehicle [bigrolf]

[Azza_LR3]

Hi Tombie, Thanks, that is good to know.

I am looking at the Redarc over the Enedrive atm. If you have fitted your charger in the vehicle - any issues with heat or noise (Enedrive has fan).


Hi Sandy, I also charge a lithium up off my D3. Yes they have a smart 150A Alternator. I chose to run with the Victron Planer Transformer type (Its a beast) And i have nicely installed it under by rear seat for sufficient ventilation. It is very quiet. This unit tricks the alternator into giving you upto 80-90Amps/Hr to replenish a lithium cell.

Personally I have a 200Ah Battery, and I run a 2000W invertor mounted inside car. SO when camping, I can run a coffee machine and an induction hob. I have been able to have enough power to get through a 3 day camping trip, without the need to replenish. Then I simply start and drive the car and it recharges.

Hope thats of some help.

[drivesafe]

This unit tricks the alternator into giving you upto 80-90Amps/Hr to replenish a lithium cell.
Hi Azza, and sorry but it does not "TRICK" the alternator in to doing anything that the alternator would be able to do in normal operation.

This is just another form of DC/DC device and works the same way.

It simply steps up the voltage by increasing the current INPUT.

As far as the alternator goes, as long as it has a high enough RPM, it will produce up to its maximum current if a load of that magnitude is applied to the alternator.

The lower the alternator out put VOLTAGE is, the higher that devices input CURRENT demand will be.

If your are cruising along at 100KPH and the device need 80-90 amps, even if the alternator voltage is low, the alternator will still be able provide that 80-90 amps.

If you were stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, and the alternator was spinning slowly that it could only produce 60 amp, as your vehicle requires up to 40 amp for its own electrical needs, you would have just 20 amps available and this would mean you are only small amount of output current available.

Again, these devices work the same as a DC/DC device works.

Sorry Sandy for interrupting your thread again but misinformation is misinformation.

[josh.huber]

Hi Sandy, I also charge a lithium up off my D3. Yes they have a smart 150A Alternator. I chose to run with the Victron Planer Transformer type (Its a beast) And i have nicely installed it under by rear seat for sufficient ventilation. It is very quiet. This unit tricks the alternator into giving you upto 80-90Amps/Hr to replenish a lithium cell.

Personally I have a 200Ah Battery, and I run a 2000W invertor mounted inside car. SO when camping, I can run a coffee machine and an induction hob. I have been able to have enough power to get through a 3 day camping trip, without the need to replenish. Then I simply start and drive the car and it recharges.

Hope thats of some help.

Hey az, have you got a link. I tried to research it and got sent to an eco farm on their website.

[drivesafe]

Hey az, have you got a link.
And do you have the model number and how you have it set up.

[Sandy]

[QUOTE= Sorry Sandy for interrupting your thread again but misinformation is misinformation.[/QUOTE]

Tim, would not want it any other way. Have learnt a lot from your "interruptions" :)