V8 auto to TD5??

[Reddirt204]

Hi all, I have done a fair bit of reading, googling etc but wanting to check with the brains trust here.

I have a 2003 D2a with TD5 and auto, currently with 325,000 on the clock. The auto is showing signs of old age (fine partials in the oil when changed) a bit sluggish which is to be expected with the amount of K's and general lack of care by previous owners... I have read about getting a V8 converter to tighten things up and are better matched to the TD5 torque curve etc. I would love an Ashcroft built 4HP22/24 but $$$ are as usual in short supply. I have located not too far from me a 1999 V8 Disco with a blown motor and has now run out of rego, the owner wants a very reasonable price for it. I see Ashcrofts now offer a V8 to TD5 flex plate conversion, how straight forward would the change over be?? I have heard some of the early V8's ran a 22 and not the 24 (I don't know what is in the V8)

IF it is a 4HP22 would it be a straight swap (well I know there will be small things to change, but hopefully you understand what I mean.)

Or if it turns out to be a 4HP24 would it be feasible to swap the good bits over to my trans (I would probably get a specialist to do this)

any input greatly appreciated

Also the potential doner has only done 152,000km so not much at all and looks like most of those to the shops and back

cheers

Reddirt204

[AK83]

I'm pretty sure that the bellhousing and hence the input shaft for the HP22 is longer on the TD5 than on the V8.

And as far as I can tell, replacing the input shaft = pretty much a strip down and rebuild anyhow.

D2 v8's still use the HP22, just like the TD5 did, but in the US where they get the 4.6 V8 in the D2s at some point, the HP24 went into them over there only.
Otherwise the RR got the HP24 behind the 4.6's

My understanding of the use of a V8 torque converter is that the TD5 really is best if mapped for a bit more power. Standard tune TD5 hasn't got the low down(off the line torque) of the V8 and may feel a lot more sluggish compared if fitted with the V8 converter.

This is how it's described on Ashcrofts site for the flex plate/torque converter mod.

[Reddirt204]

Thanks AK83

I was sort of aware of the differences in shafts and yes a mild tune is on the cards, nothing crazy just a bit better all round. My thinking is that to get one fully built or an Ashcroft setup I'm looking at anything from $3-$5K all up, using the V8 trans and getting it sorted with the better TC etc I would be up for about $1000-$1500 or so plus still have the the second vehicle for spares/bit and pieces etc.

[discorevy]

Hi Reddirt204
Before you get any more speculated info, I'll just clear up a few things up for yourself and anyone contemplating going down this route.
The V8 auto in the 4.0 litre D2 and P38 is the same 4HP22EH that you will find in the unit behind the TD5, Except for a few differences, these being.
* Rear output shaft
* Extension housing
* Bell housing
* Ring gear, boss, Flex plate and torque converter
* Some V8 units have 5 frictions in the "B" clutch instead of 4.
* The input shaft and everything else is the same

Definitely get the V8 D2 with those k's as the hardware ( clutch baskets etc ) will be in much better condition than yours.

Get yourself these bits from Ashcrofts if you like so as to use the V8 converter ( you could get the vanes bent for a lower stall rate in the TD5 converter but not as strong or efficient )

TD5 Heavy Duty Torque Converter Fitting Kit - Ashcroft Transmissions (https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/product/td5-heavy-duty-torque-converter-fitting-kit/)

ZF Master Rebuild Kit - Ashcroft Transmissions (https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/product/zf-master-rebuild-kit/)

Note that 2 of the last 3 I have done required the modified boss to be turned down by 2mm to allow for end float between flex plate and ring gear, I suspect it would be correct if a standard flex plate thickness were used, I could be wrong on this.

There can be a shortage of the fitting kit sometimes ( I have a couple here if you get stuck )

The master kit contains the Teflon input shaft seals which can overcome the leakage back into the "A" Drum.

Definitely requires a remap to make it work like a bought one.

Yes, the 24 has a few stronger bits but, unless you're going large on the remap the 22 with synthetic fluid will be fine.
P.M. me if you need any specific info .

The other myth is that the box lasts around 250 000 k's.
( maybe if the oil was never changed / changed too late, or the owner never kept it in lock up when towing ) , if serviced and the owner knows what to do when towing heavy then 400 000+k's is what I've been seeing

Cheers

[Reddirt204]

discorevy

mate, thanks for the clarification.

The Donner is a 4.2 (I know zero about Landy V8's) not sure if that makes a difference or not

I was going to get the box checked and the parts swapped over, do you think I would be able to complete this at home?? I'm pretty good with spanners etc (replaced the head gasket with no issues, rebuilt a few red motors in the past) How far is the box needed to be opened up?

I was also going to rebuild the transfer case as well due to oil leaks (and while the box is out) anything I should be aware of? it's all running fine and have had no problems

again thanks for your help

cheers

Redd

[PhilipA]

I have a friend with a D2A with 370kk on it wanting to know if he should change the ATF having not changed it for 200 kk and unknown before that.
I sucked my teeth and said that I wouldn’t advise it but he went ahead.
It looks like it still works although he now complains of engine stalling on take off which I think is unrelated.
I think many die when a cooler hose comes apart .

Regards PhilipA
BTW mine has 230 kk and seems fine . I use Transmax Z and change pretty often. I lock up whenever possible and tow 1500 kg. I also changed the cooler lines for original and the hot side of the old ones was looking a bit suspect.

Really $5k for a new trans would make you question whether to do it and I think a lot are wrecked when this happens , so I think care is cost efficient.

[discorevy]

discorevy

mate, thanks for the clarification.

The Donner is a 4.2 (I know zero about Landy V8's) not sure if that makes a difference or not

Standard d2 is 4.0, the LSE Rangie had a 4.2 but as long as it's a D2 V8 it'll work

I was going to get the box checked and the parts swapped over, do you think I would be able to complete this at home?? I'm pretty good with spanners etc (replaced the head gasket with no issues, rebuilt a few red motors in the past) How far is the box needed to be opened up?

Box needs to be completely stripped down to get to the output shaft, it's a bit more complex than a red motor, but what's the worst that can happen?[biggrin]
If you covered say 4-5 sq metres of work bench ( or even a clean flat concrete floor ) with clean card board and stripped them down side by side, PAYING ATTENTION to everything, taking pics if needed and using manuals for specs you should be in with a chance

I was also going to rebuild the transfer case as well due to oil leaks (and while the box is out) anything I should be aware of? it's all running fine and have had no problem

If the case isn't ovaled out at the intermediate shaft then just order a master kit along with the other bits, if you intend to give it a hard time off road then either a HD crosspin for the centre diff or ATB is the go.

again thanks for your help

cheers

Redd

No problem, also make a couple of guide studs for R&R of transfer case, otherwise it's easy to damage the TC input seal

[Reddirt204]

Again thanks to all who have replied

Looks like I took too long asking questions and over thinking it as I went to contact the guy and it had just been sold :BigCry:

I have asked him if it falls through I will take it but I don't think it will.

Oh well at least I now know if one comes up again I won't be hesitating


cheers

Redd

[Reddirt204]

It's me again.....

Talking with the gut that sold the Disco I was looking at, I might still be able to get the drive line.[bigrolf]

Re-reading discorevy's breakdown and thinking about it... it reads as I would need to change out the rrear housing to mount up to my TD5 transfer case (LT230?) how would I go using the V8's transfer case as a whole unit? what am I missing? Different ratios? Drive shafts??

I know it might not have the CDL but for the moment I can live without it (I'm not into the hard core off roading and my young bloke is more into beach stuff)

any advice always appreciated

cheers

Redd

[discorevy]

It's me again.....

Talking with the gut that sold the Disco I was looking at, I might still be able to get the drive line.[bigrolf]

Re-reading discorevy's breakdown and thinking about it... it reads as I would need to change out the rrear housing to mount up to my TD5 transfer case (LT230?) how would I go using the V8's transfer case as a whole unit? what am I missing? Different ratios? Drive shafts??

I know it might not have the CDL but for the moment I can live without it (I'm not into the hard core off roading and my young bloke is more into beach stuff)

any advice always appreciated

cheers

Redd

It needs the output shaft and extension housing changed to the TD5 one in order to line up with the gearbox mounts so other things such as prop shafts and chassis mounts etc can stay the same.
The transfer cases between V8 and TD5 are the same.

You also want the CDL to be engaged for any low traction surface otherwise the shims in the centre diff will have a very short life

cheers