Petrol falling, but what about diesel?

[DiscoMick]

Petrol prices are falling, but not diesel, which is a problem as diesel is used for transporting goods, so diesel has more effect on inflation than petrol.
I just spent $100 on diesel and got 43 litres. Ouch!
With the ACT to ban sales of new petrol vehicles from 2035, and high diesel prices, it's no wonder the supply of EVs can't meet the demand from consumers. Qld has just hit 10,000 registered EVs.
Interesting times.

Petrol prices could soon fall to $1.85 but diesel remaining high
Petrol prices could soon fall to $1.85 but diesel remaining high - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-19/petrol-prices-could-soon-fall-to-1-85-but-diesel-remaining-high/101249064)

[Grumbles]

I don't think fuel is expensive when you compare it to the price of bottled water which every cheerfully buys without a second thought. Fuel is pumped out of the ground and then highly processed. Bottled water is pumped out of the ground, packaged and then sold.

Water prices - see below -
The price of bottled water (https://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2016/bottled-water/)

[1950landy]

The cost if filling my wife's Hyundai I30 diesel has jumped from just under $50 to fill from empty to over $80 , lucky it get's
4.2 L per 100 & we only fill about once a month if that .

[scarry]

Diesel prices are generally high here during the northern hemispheres winter,which isn’t far away,so I don’t think they are going to drop anytime soon.
Then there is also the addition of the global issues,the war,etc.

Banning sales of petrol vehicles in the ACT seems a bit odd,unless all the other states follow suit which won’t happen.

[muddy]

correct me if I am wrong

didn't the government take 22 cents off the excise for petrol but not diesel could account for price variances

[ramblingboy42]

it's nearly time to think about alternative diesel fuel again

[JDNSW]

Muddy, the part excise came off diesel as well, but this made no difference to the major users who don't pay it anyway or already got a rebate on it.

On Sunday, I drove from Yass to Murrumbateman to fill up for the trip back here as it was 223.9 vs 237.9 - and it still cost me over $300 for 134l. Both tanks were very low!

[Tombie]

By my calcs - all the current price has done is add $3.00 per 100km to my costs. A quick 800km run is only $24 more.
Hardly worth even contemplating.

For the average motorist doing 10k a year thats $300

[JDNSW]

According to Petrolspy, the local price has dropped to below $2.40 yesterday.

[PhilipA]

As usual NSW is being ripped off.
I topped up at 217.9 at Chevallum Qld day before yesterday and plan top up at Miriam vale at 215.9 on Friday.
Diso TD5 auto is doing about 13-13.5 towing my 1500kg pop top at about av 95kmh.
Last top up was 12 but had some non towing ks.
regards PhilipA
most stations up here at about 225.9 to227.9.

[scarry]

I wish we only did 10 000 Km a year,I don’t know how they work those sort of figures out.Doing those sort of K’s an EV is probably ideal.

we do around 25 to 30K in the car and almost 40K in the work van.

Last week,some place,(sorry can’t remember the name of the place)on the way to Fraser Island,south of Gympie,diesel was 212.9/litre which is the cheapest I have seen it for a while.

It was over $3.00 on the island,didn’t need any though.

[scarry]

With the ACT to ban sales of new petrol vehicles from 2035.

Not actually correct,lots of maybe this and maybe that, here.

ACT commits to 90 per cent EVs by 2030 (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/act-pledges-nine-out-of-10-cars-will-be-evs-by-2030?fbclid=IwAR2LfUnl6dkMXcS1L3FeyNQ7xIPaRcY4TELo jPuapF9rNKJKeoWapOQ9FGc)

I know one thing,once the Govt gets involved in this type of thing,it usually ends up in a mess.

[Vern]

By my calcs - all the current price has done is add $3.00 per 100km to my costs. A quick 800km run is only $24 more.
Hardly worth even contemplating.

For the average motorist doing 10k a year thats $300That is exactly how I look at it too. Big deal

[DiscoMick]

Anyone bought LPG lately? I used to pay $26 for an 8.5kg bottle, but the one I bought last week cost $35.

[vnx205]

You can use different (still realistic) numbers such as 10 litres/100km and 20,000km a year and come to the conclusion that the annual increase is more like $1,100.
Or you could use 12 litres/100km and 30,000km and the increase would be over $2000.

Most of my driving is in a vehicle that uses less than 6l/100km so 20,000km adds about $600.

Some people are affected more than others.

[101RRS]

Not actually correct,lots of maybe this and maybe that, here.

ACT commits to 90 per cent EVs by 2030 (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/act-pledges-nine-out-of-10-cars-will-be-evs-by-2030?fbclid=IwAR2LfUnl6dkMXcS1L3FeyNQ7xIPaRcY4TELo jPuapF9rNKJKeoWapOQ9FGc)

I know one thing,once the Govt gets involved in this type of thing,it usually ends up in a mess.

Not making this post political as it is stating facts not opinions but you can draw your own conclusions.

The ACT Government is a coalition between Labor and the Greens with MLAs from both parties making up the Cabinet.

The ACT Attorney General is the ACT Greens Leader and the Environment Minister is a Greens MLA.

Opinion: While this arrangement continues, the ACT Government will continue to have a Green bent.

[Graeme]

Most of my driving is in a vehicle that uses less than 6l/100km so 20,000km adds about $600.

Some people are affected more than others.I put a 250L splash into my truck today that cost nearly $600.

[V8Ian]

I used to drive a truck with a 2500 litre fuel capacity, went through over 5000 litres a week, plus what the fridge van used running for six days.

[Homestar]

And the margin between bulk and tetail prices is closing too. We buy around 15,000 litres a week and our last delivery was $1.92 a litre - until recently we could generally buy around 45 to 50 cents a litre cheaper than retail but that’s being eroded week on week.

[Tombie]

You can use different (still realistic) numbers such as 10 litres/100km and 20,000km a year and come to the conclusion that the annual increase is more like $1,100.
Or you could use 12 litres/100km and 30,000km and the increase would be over $2000.

Most of my driving is in a vehicle that uses less than 6l/100km so 20,000km adds about $600.

Some people are affected more than others.

Of course it does. Still it’s not that drastic.

6l per 100 @ $0.30 extra a litre is $1.80 per 100
20,000km / 100 = 200 units x 1.80

That’s a whole $360.00. Not the $600 quoted.


12/100 = $3.60 extra
300 x $3.60 = $1,080. Not the $2,000 quoted


Really, the biggest pain is for trucking operators who can have 1:1 fuel consumption levels depending on what they are moving.

[scarry]

Considering diesel was around the $1.10 mark a while ago,maybe 2 yrs ago,it has had huge increases in the relatively short term.

Anyway,not that I really give two hoots.

[trout1105]

Considering diesel was around the $1.10 mark a while ago,maybe 2 yrs ago,it has had huge increases in the relatively short term.

Anyway,not that I really give two hoots.

I am pretty sure that petrol/diesel was hovering at about the $1 mark last year sometime over 100% increase since then is BS.
It is funny that the price skyrockets Immediately after a rise in crude prices But it takes weeks or months for the price at the bowser to drop after a drop in the crude price.
Gauging Bastards.

[Homestar]

I am pretty sure that petrol/diesel was hovering at about the $1 mark last year sometime over 100% increase since then is BS.
It is funny that the price skyrockets Immediately after a rise in crude prices But it takes weeks or months for the price at the bowser to drop after a drop in the crude price.
Gauging Bastards.

Yes, they gauge quite well how much to gouge us. [bigwhistle]

[V8Ian]

Just filled up with diesel at Costco for 208cpl. Puma, across the road, routinely one of the cheapest retailers in the area are advertising 227cpl.

[Tombie]

I am pretty sure that petrol/diesel was hovering at about the $1 mark last year sometime over 100% increase since then is BS.
It is funny that the price skyrockets Immediately after a rise in crude prices But it takes weeks or months for the price at the bowser to drop after a drop in the crude price.
Gauging Bastards.

Nothing to do with crude price in Australia.

Has a *lot* to do with product availability and reserves. [emoji2958]

[V8Ian]

Has more to do with what the market will bear.

[Tombie]

Has more to do with what the market will bear.

Not incorrect, however not the main driver behind it.

[scarry]

Has more to do with what the market will bear.

That is definitely how they work out the LPG prices,together with competition to a lesser extent.

If it is set too high,drivers just use petrol.It is always set to be only just more economical to use than petrol.

[vnx205]

Of course it does. Still it’s not that drastic.

.... .... ...... ...

Really, the biggest pain is for trucking operators who can have 1:1 fuel consumption levels depending on what they are moving.

It depends on what price you use as the starting point. I am old enough to remember when petrol was more than 50c/litre cheaper than most of the prices I see now. :)

I agree with what you say about trucking companies. The price they pay to fill up is an eye watering number.

[350RRC]

Considering diesel was around the $1.10 mark a while ago,maybe 2 yrs ago,it has had huge increases in the relatively short term.

Anyway,not that I really give two hoots.

I remember paying $0.84 for 91 ULP, but wordwide demand was way down because of covid.

People forget that prices were abnormally low.

cheers, DL

[JDNSW]

I remember paying less than 3/6 per gallon! But I also remember buying petrol at Alice and Tennant Ck where you had to double the amount shown on the bowser, because they could not be set to more than 5/- per gallon. ($0.11/l)

[BradC]

Filled up the old man’s 200 series yesterday in Ascot. 122L @1.87. Given I’ve been buying at 2.21 I though that was worth the 7minute drive (even though that probably used 50L in the whale).

[scarry]

Still diesel robbery here,$2.30/L.

$295 to fill up this morning[bighmmm]Should last a week hopefully[biggrin]

Petrol is way cheaper.

Company pays so i shouldnt be that worried,then GST comes off.....

[BradC]

Yeah, got me. Most is between high 2.10s and 2.30s in Perth, but these two near the airport have been persistently in the mid to upper 1.80s for over a week now. I’d drive 7ks for a $40 saving again.

[Jesters Td5]

Ouch

[350RRC]

Yeah, got me. Most is between high 2.10s and 2.30s in Perth, but these two near the airport have been persistently in the mid to upper 1.80s for over a week now. I’d drive 7ks for a $40 saving again.

Supply company is probably doing all the diesel appliances at the airport as well.

DL

[350RRC]

I remember paying less than 3/6 per gallon! But I also remember buying petrol at Alice and Tennant Ck where you had to double the amount shown on the bowser, because they could not be set to more than 5/- per gallon. ($0.11/l)

Can remember super being 4.6 c / l when the changeover to metric happened.

The day I bought my RRC I had to put lpg in it and it was 13 c / l.

Around the same time companies like Woodside were signing 30 year supply contracts with Japanese buyers of LNG for 1 cent per litre from memory.

**** I'm old. [biggrin][bighmmm][bigrolf]

DL

[loanrangie]

Can remember super being 4.6 c / l when the changeover to metric happened.

The day I bought my RRC I had to put lpg in it and it was 13 c / l.

Around the same time companies like Woodside were signing 30 year supply contracts with Japanese buyers of LNG for 1 cent per litre from memory.

**** I'm old. [biggrin][bighmmm][bigrolf]

DLWhen I converted my rrc it was around 15c/l so it was dirt cheap to run.

[scarry]

When I converted my rrc it was around 15c/l so it was dirt cheap to run.

It was 13c/L when we had our first van changed over,worth every cent in those days,we eventually had all the vans done as they were purchased.

Many were factory fitted injection systems by Toyota and went over 300,000Km without an issue,then the vehicles were replaced.

Today it’s really not viable,and many garages don’t have it anymore which is a nuisance.

As an example,petrol around here is $1.65c/L,with LPG at around $1.20c/L.If you hunt around you may get it at $1.09,but it’s a bit of a drive.

[Graeme]

As a teenager with empty pockets I recall putting 2/- (officially 20c) of fuel in my car.

[V8Ian]

As a teenager with empty pockets I recall putting 2/- (officially 20c) of fuel in my car.
As do I, from an after hours coin pump.

[loanrangie]

It was 13c/L when we had our first van changed over,worth every cent in those days,we eventually had all the vans done as they were purchased.

Many were factory fitted injection systems by Toyota and went over 300,000Km without an issue,then the vehicles were replaced.

Today it’s really not viable,and many garages don’t have it anymore which is a nuisance.

As an example,petrol around here is $1.65c/L,with LPG at around $1.20c/L.If you hunt around you may get it at $1.09,but it’s a bit of a drive.

LPG has almost always been kept at less then half of the ULP price, still with a decent conversion costing 5k or more its probably not worth it.

[Tombie]

Diesel has dropped to $2.12 here today

[loanrangie]

Diesel has dropped to $2.12 here today

I reckon they are sucking us in ready for when the price goes back up, the independent near work is $2.09 today [thumbsupbig].

[trout1105]

Maybe the price decrease is due to people driving less due to the exorbitant price per litre and it is hurting the fuel companies bottom line because of a lower sales volume.
I did read somewhere recently that there is now a glut of fuel on the Asian market which would also encourage a price reduction.

[JDNSW]

As a teenager with empty pockets I recall putting 2/- (officially 20c) of fuel in my car.

In about 1960, there were three of us returning to Sydney from a university field trip near Mudgee in my VW Transporter. With it becoming clear that we would not make home the three of us went through all our pockets to gather all the change we had to get petrol at Kurrajong. I can't remember exactly how much we raked up, but it was definitely less than 5/-. 3/6 sticks in my mind.

[101RRS]

An interesting article on why diesel is more expensive than petrol.

Is a US article but applies equally to Aust - noting we still use dirty high sulphur fuel but this is about to change.

Why diesel is more expensive than regular gas - CNN (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/26/business/diesel-prices-gas/index.html?utm_source=optzlynewmarketribbon)

Garry

[BradC]

noting we still use dirty high sulphur fuel but this is about to change.

We've been < 10ppm since 2009. What is "about to change" ?

[V8Ian]

We've been < 10ppm since 2009. What is "about to change" ?
Much of our home produced diesel was at that level, at the turn of the century.

[101RRS]

We've been < 10ppm since 2009. What is "about to change" ?

Yep my bad - saw a thing on the news yesterday and it was about petrol not diesel - thought they were talking diesel.

"While Australian diesel moved to ultra-low sulphur content standards in 2009, under which the fuel must contain no more than 10 parts per million (ppm) of sulphur, petrol quality is yet to be regulated to the same degree and contains up to 150ppm of sulphur for 91RON regular unleaded and up to 50ppm for 95 and 98RON premium unleaded.

Ampol have already committed to achieving 10ppm maximum limits for sulphur in petrol in Australia by 2024 and are undertaking refinery upgrades to meet those levels. This will bring Australia into line with most developed countries on sulphur and is three years ahead of the 2027 timeline announced by the government in 2019.”

Happy Now [thumbsupbig]

[DiscoMick]

So the claim is servos are overcharging for diesel by about 20 cents a litre. That's certainly the difference around here.

Why is diesel so expensive? Retailers are charging 20c per litre more than they should, fuel watchers say
Why is diesel so expensive? Retailers are charging 20c per litre more than they should, fuel watchers say - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-29/fuel-prices-why-is-diesel-more-expensive-than-petrol/101270490)

[discomatt69]

So the claim is servos are overcharging for diesel by about 20 cents a litre. That's certainly the difference around here.

Why is diesel so expensive? Retailers are charging 20c per litre more than they should, fuel watchers say
Why is diesel so expensive? Retailers are charging 20c per litre more than they should, fuel watchers say - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-29/fuel-prices-why-is-diesel-more-expensive-than-petrol/101270490)

Well thats a massive surprise, big business ripping off the consumer and manipulating the whole economy with a government and governing bodies being all talk and no action.
Would never have seen that coming[bigrolf]

[chuck]

40 cents a litre difference at some servos up our way.

Blatant rip off

Diesel is cheaper to produce, store & distribute.

[JDNSW]

............

Diesel is cheaper to produce, store & distribute.

That depends on the composition of the crude that it comes from and how tight the rules are, for example, on sulphur content. It also depends on the design of the refinery - any refinery design will have assumed a known crude composition and a desired distribution of product.

Increased demand for diesel relative to petrol, or a change in the feedstock beyond what was foreseen in the design, for example, cannot be met without modifying the refinery, something that is going to be expensive and time consuming for an operating refinery.

Ultimately though it will come down to the law of supply and demand.

(But this is no reason why the retail margin for the two fuels should differ. While in theory, the lower flammability means diesel is cheaper store and distribute, in practice I doubt there is a significant difference.)

[jonesfam]

Since the fuel price went stupid we have been consistently been paying our fuel distributor a much high price for diesel than ULP.
Before the huge price increases the difference in landed Diesel & ULP was normally under .10c per Lt, since the price stupidity the difference is regularly 3 or 4 (even more) times that amount.
Ergo, we have to sell Diesel at a much higher price & the problem is in the distribution, not the retailer.

Also, a few weeks ago to keep the price of all fuels remotely affordable we were selling fuel at a loss. We did this for about 8 weeks.
Sometime, somehow we have to try to recoup that loss. So, prices may not drop as much or as quickly as people assume.

I know fuel is an essential good but I suppose it's a bit like grog & smokes, if you want to indulge you pay the price.
Anyway, be HAPPY! Fuel on Palm Island is well over $3 at the moment.

Jonesfam

[JDNSW]

Have a look at International Market Watch | Australian Institute of Petroleum (https://www.aip.com.au/pricing/international-prices/international-market-watch). Especially the $A chart. And note that diesel prices do not exactly follow the petrol curve, especially on 8/7/22. And diesel is consistently higher than petrol.

These prices are the refinery gate price, Singapore, which is where most of our products come from. Also note that the price of Tapis crude, which is the relevant one for this part of the world, is much higher than either WTI or Brent which are the ones most commonly quoted - we are effectively part of S.E. Asia, not Europe or West Texas! Tapis is higher, both because its composition is more useful, and because it is local, and does not need a lot of transport cost from the other side of the world.

[BradC]

I know fuel is an essential good but I suppose it's a bit like grog & smokes, if you want to indulge you pay the price.
Anyway, be HAPPY! Fuel on Palm Island is well over $3 at the moment.

Having a friendly gripe across the bowser with another motorist when I was up North, she commented she'd just paid $4.40 at Dirk Hartog, at which point I decided griping about $2.80 probably sounded a bit whingy.

[trout1105]

Having a friendly gripe across the bowser with another motorist when I was up North, she commented she'd just paid $4.40 at Dirk Hartog, at which point I decided griping about $2.80 probably sounded a bit whingy.

Dirk Hartog is an Island and has no road access so all the fuel has to be supplied by barge so at least they have some sort of excuse.

[windsock]

For anyone interested about things over here in NZ. Importer fuel margins have been much bigger lately. Damn Gouging big.

From our Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment data pages... Weekly fuel price monitoring | Ministry of Business, Innovation & Employment (https://www.mbie.govt.nz/building-and-energy/energy-and-natural-resources/energy-statistics-and-modelling/energy-statistics/weekly-fuel-price-monitoring/)

180156
180158

180157
180159

You can see in these graphs where it was a couple of months after the Govt reduced the tax take that the fuel companies started increasing the margin made and this kept the fuel price increase narrative alive. "Fuel was increasing in price everywhere" they said....

The cheapest diesel I can find within a 30km radius of home is NZ$2.33. Most local service stations list NZD2.35. The most expensive is NZ$2.84. Diesel here is not taxed at the pump like petrol is. Instead diesel vehicles need to carry a ticket saying road user charges (RUC) have been paid for based on the GVM of the vehicle and in 1000km units. For my 110 HCPU I need to buy a 3T ticket and I buy 5000km at a time as this corresponds to my vehicle servicing interval. Last lot cost me NZD49 per 1000km, but this includes a govt cost of living tax reduction discount of 25% I think. See this website for axle types, weights and cost per 1000km for different vehicles - RUC rates and transaction fees | Waka Kotahi NZ Transport Agency (https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/road-user-charges/ruc-rates-and-transaction-fees/) You can see this discount implementation date in the petrol graph between Jan 2022 and the end of the graph. It is only in the petrol data as this is taxed at the pump and the cost of living discount was actioned by the litre at the pump. For diesel, a discounted price per 1000km of RUC was implemented. Normally 1000km costs NZD76.

[DiscoMick]

That's an interesting system.
I'll be interested to compare prices in Auckland tonight with here in Oz.
My closest servo had E10 at 1.72 and diesel at 2.09 Aus$ yesterday. Fallen in the last week.
The difference between petrol and diesel is much larger than normal.

[Gordie]

The cheapest diesel I can find within a 30km radius of home is NZ$2.33. I can get it today for $2.26 through my farmlands card at Caltex Truckstops...but about a month ago I paid up to $3.00...a govt minister did something useful for a change, a couple of weeks ago, and sent a shot across the bows of the fuel companies re the gouging...and suddenly the price dropped!

[DiscoMick]

Today in Queenstown I saw petrol as high as 2.76 and diesel at 263, both NZ$.
I will no longer complain about paying 172 Aus$ for petrol.

[PhilipA]

It’s really strange that Townsville is the cheapest I have come across.
I paid 2.01.5 for premium diesel at a Woolworths station yesterday using a 4 c shopper docket.

Regards PhilipA

[V8Ian]

Check BP Cluden Philip, it used to be competitive, unusual for BP.

[Arapiles]

Under $2 here now, but that's still 35 to 40c more expensive than unleaded.

[scarry]

Under $2 here now, but that's still 35 to 40c more expensive than unleaded.

Where?

Your location appears to be N/A.

[Arapiles]

Where?

Your location appears to be N/A.

Melbourne.