Toyota recalling cars...

[spudfan]

Toyota recalling cars because the wheel nuts can come off.
I came across this over here as someone has ordered one but he was told it will not be delivered to the dealer until they sort the issue out.

Toyota recalls bZ4X electric SUVs over wheel that could detach while driving - The Verge (https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/23/23179976/toyota-bz4x-ev-recall-wheel-detach)

[V8Ian]

It would be rather annoying if the wheel nuts didn't come off, especially when you got a flat tyre. [wink11]

[trout1105]

Looking at the diagram in the link the front wheel appears to be fitted by using Bolts not your standard wheel studs and nuts.
It also appears to be the left hand side that is problomatic, Maybe left hand threaded bolts will solve this issue like what is used on some trucks and old valiants.[thumbsupbig]

[scarry]

So the recall is for 2,700 vehicles.

Last year they sold around 8.5M,worldwide,the nearest competitor was around 5M.

So in the whole scheme of things,less than half a drop in the ocean.

At least the EV shouldn’t have any injector or DPF issues[bigwhistle]

[350RRC]

Looking at the diagram in the link the front wheel appears to be fitted by using Bolts not your standard wheel studs and nuts.
It also appears to be the left hand side that is problomatic, Maybe left hand threaded bolts will solve this issue like what is used on some trucks and old valiants.[thumbsupbig]

My first car........ 64 VW Type III wagon........ had studs on all wheels, all RH thread AFAIR and I never had a problem.

I can't see how the rotation direction of the wheel would loosen LH or RH threaded studs because there is no direct rotational force being applied, it's all clamping force.

Hub nuts are a different matter, that's why they (mine) have a thick keyed washer, a lock nut and a keyed fold over washer holding the whole shebang in place.......... all RH thread.

cheers, DL

[trout1105]

My first car........ 64 VW Type III wagon........ had studs on all wheels, all RH thread AFAIR and I never had a problem.

I can't see how the rotation direction of the wheel would loosen LH or RH threaded studs because there is no direct rotational force being applied, it's all clamping force.

Hub nuts are a different matter, that's why they (mine) have a thick keyed washer, a lock nut and a keyed fold over washer holding the whole shebang in place.......... all RH thread.

cheers, DL

The same sort of rotational force that is applied to the hub nuts is also applied to the wheel nuts studs to some extent, This is why some trucks and heavey vehicles are fitted with the LH threads on the Left side of the vehicle [thumbsupbig]

[350RRC]

The same sort of rotational force that is applied to the hub nuts is also applied to the wheel nuts studs to some extent, This is why some trucks and heavey vehicles are fitted with the LH threads on the Left side of the vehicle [thumbsupbig]

I can imagine that would be the case with a sloppy wheel rim hole to stud fit and non-tapered holes in the rims. ?

DL

[trout1105]

I can imagine that would be the case with a sloppy wheel rim hole to stud fit and non-tapered holes in the rims. ?

DL

Truck wheel spiders come to mind.

[Graeme]

I all but lost a left dual wheel from my tractor (1 loose bolt left out of 10) and I lost a left front wheel from the cart of my air-seeder. I now swing on a 1m long bar on the tractor bolts and the cart's bolts are thread-locked and have a nut on the other side of the threaded hub flange.
PS My brother in his teens replaced the remaining LH studs on his newly acquired AP6 after he snapped several trying to undo them as RH threads.

[V8Ian]

Early Chrysler, VW and some early European trucks had LH threads on the left side wheel studs/nuts/bolts. I think that was a bit of over cautious engineering. I once came across an old Snoopy MAN that had the front hubs swapped side to side, probably during a brake reline, ending up with LH threads on the right and vice-versa. It never suffered any adverse effects.
I've never seen spiders with left hand threads, it would be pretty unnecessary with the studs/nuts so far from the centre of the wheel.

[Graeme]

Rims moving on studs doesn't seem to undo the nuts, unlike rims moving on bolts.

[scarry]

And another

Speed Society (https://news.speedsociety.com/ford-recalling-over-17000-trucks-because-the-wheels-might-fall-off-2/?fbclid=IwAR0PJck5IZUYYTGnyfIh9jPbsupw_1DZ_bHK6k3U hoLWYMkqTDt2-nUY4Jk)

[RANDLOVER]

There are also some of their cars that they should recall due to peeling paint Toyota owners call for peeling paint fix - Drive (https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-owners-call-for-peeling-paint-fix/).

[350RRC]

There are also some of their cars that they should recall due to peeling paint Toyota owners call for peeling paint fix - Drive (https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-owners-call-for-peeling-paint-fix/).

I thought that story might have been about the clear coat getting a little shabby till I saw the pics. [biggrin][bigwhistle]

DL

[ozscott]

I think the number of recalls Toyota have managed to issue is pretty telling. They are not what they used to be. Cheers

[JDNSW]

LH threads on wheel nuts or studs have been common on cars and trucks since quite early in the history of motoring.

For the conventional setup, where the wheel is supported by a conical face on the nut, for forward motion, a loose nut will tighten on the right side, but loosen on the left. Visualise the hole in the wheel moving in a very small circle round the stationary nut - the contact point will drag against the nut.

The issue is what is "loose". This depends on the load on each nut - loose means loose enough for movement to occur. This depends on the pitch circle diameter of the studs, the number of studs, the wheel diameter, and the load on the wheel.

In the last fifty years or so left hand threads have become almost unheard of on light vehicles, partly because tyre issues have decreased to the extent that many (most?) drivers rarely touch a wheel nut spanner and cannot be expected to know half have to be turned the "wrong" way, and there is a long history of broken LH studs where they are small enough.

Manufacturers have mostly managed (probably by trial and error) to produce setups where the nuts will not loosen provided they are tightened to where they are "tight" to the average driver. But, as I have found from experience, on a classic Landrover/Rangerover, if you tighten them to where the wheel turns when jacked up, and then forget to tighten after putting weight on it, if it is on the LH side the wheel nuts will come loose!

[ATH]

"then forget to tighten after putting weight on it, if it is on the LH side the wheel nuts will come loose!"
I would have thought that was obvious to most people but of course if you're in a hurry or it was pouring hard or thick like this bloke, it might happen. I'd never heard of LH nuts on cars until a bloke I knew who worked at Telfer 40 years ago was towing a van in with his wife and kids had a puncture and rounded off the nuts trying to undo them. A truck going past took a message in (no mobiles back then) and they sent a fitter out to assist him.
That was back in the days long before the Ripon Hills road was built and it was all dirt and creek crossing from the Hedland/Marble Bar Rd.
AlanH.

[trout1105]

Loose wheel nuts can be a problem with ANY make of vehicle and that is why the fitment of wheel nut indicators are manditory on many minesites.
Personally I recheck the wheel nuts a couple of times after changing a flat tyre or even after picking the vehicle from the tyre joint.
It takes about 5min to do this But it Will prevent loosing a wheel from loose or broken wheel studs and it is a Good habit to adopt[thumbsupbig]

[scarry]

I think the number of recalls Toyota have managed to issue is pretty telling. They are not what they used to be. Cheers

They are the biggest seller in Aus by a country mile,over double their nearest competitor,so the more that are sold,the bigger number can have issues.

Over 8.7M vehicles world wide,next is 5.5M,2021.

There is a class action being started for Colorados,panels cracking,DPF issues,etc,etc.Over 90,000 vehicles involved,a huge percentage of the number actually sold.

Ford TDV6 engines in D3/4/5,RRS,should have been a class action as well,but actual numbers are low,although the % of failures of vehicles sold is high,and the manufacturer continued to sell them for decades, knowing there was a problem.

[trout1105]

They are the biggest seller in Aus by a country mile,over double their nearest competitor,so the more that are sold,the bigger number can have issues.

Over 8.7M vehicles world wide,next is 5.5M,2021.

There is a class action being started for Colorados,panels cracking,DPF issues,etc,etc.Over 90,000 vehicles involved,a huge percentage of the number actually sold.

Ford TDV6 engines in D3/4/5,RRS,should have been a class action as well,but actual numbers are low,although the % of failures of vehicles sold is high,and the manufacturer continued to sell them for decades, knowing there was a problem.

I am pretty certain that those unfortunate TDV6 owners with a snapped crankshaft would gladly swap that problem for a bit of paint peel instead[bigwhistle]

[ozscott]

They are the biggest seller in Aus by a country mile,over double their nearest competitor,so the more that are sold,the bigger number can have issues.

Over 8.7M vehicles world wide,next is 5.5M,2021.

There is a class action being started for Colorados,panels cracking,DPF issues,etc,etc.Over 90,000 vehicles involved,a huge percentage of the number actually sold.

Ford TDV6 engines in D3/4/5,RRS,should have been a class action as well,but actual numbers are low,although the % of failures of vehicles sold is high,and the manufacturer continued to sell them for decades, knowing there was a problem.I thought I had read it was Isuzu that had the class action potentially getting going for 90k vehicles for cracks and turbos.

I take your point re number of sales and sure LR should be ashamed of their engine failures but Toyota are not the reliability last word they were decades ago.

Cheers

[ozscott]

I am pretty certain that those unfortunate TDV6 owners with a snapped crankshaft would gladly swap that problem for a bit of paint peel instead[bigwhistle]But not endless DPF problems perhaps? Let's not make light of conpanies like Toyota's approach to 'customer care' to consumers genuine ownership problems. Cheers

[trout1105]

But not endless DPF problems perhaps? Let's not make light of conpanies like Toyota's approach to 'customer care' to consumers genuine ownership problems. Cheers

NO vehicle or manufacturer is 100% perfect and the customer service isn't 100% perfect for any maker either.
However Toyota's reliability, parts avilabilty and "Customer Care" are streets ahead of many other vehicle makers (Including JLR).

4WD's are getting more complex every year and with each new inovation and safety/enviromental modifcation adds yet another layer of possible defects.
NO new 4WD is as reliable and robust as their predecessors were many decades ago and the percentage of 4WD's on our roads has increased at a staggering rate since the 80'S and 90's.
IF Toyota and Nissan vehicles were as crap as some want to make them out to be explain why their are so many of them on our roads and their sales figures keep on going up.
The resale value of a Toyota 4WD is also much better than most of its competitors, Why is this so?

[Arapiles]

The same sort of rotational force that is applied to the hub nuts is also applied to the wheel nuts studs to some extent, This is why some trucks and heavey vehicles are fitted with the LH threads on the Left side of the vehicle [thumbsupbig]


It's the case with bicycles too - the left pedal most obviously.

[ozscott]

NO vehicle or manufacturer is 100% perfect and the customer service isn't 100% perfect for any maker either.
However Toyota's reliability, parts avilabilty and "Customer Care" are streets ahead of many other vehicle makers (Including JLR).

4WD's are getting more complex every year and with each new inovation and safety/enviromental modifcation adds yet another layer of possible defects.
NO new 4WD is as reliable and robust as their predecessors were many decades ago and the percentage of 4WD's on our roads has increased at a staggering rate since the 80'S and 90's.
IF Toyota and Nissan vehicles were as crap as some want to make them out to be explain why their are so many of them on our roads and their sales figures keep on going up.
The resale value of a Toyota 4WD is also much better than most of its competitors, Why is this so?Thanks for that. No new info there. My comments remain. Toyota is not a company I would do business with. Many obliviously disagree and I am good with that. Cheers

[scarry]

But not endless DPF problems perhaps? Let's not make light of conpanies like Toyota's approach to 'customer care' to consumers genuine ownership problems. Cheers

If you listen to Cadogen,he has a vid with a bit about LR's customer care efforts[bigsad][biggrin]

As for Toyota,part of the class action to do with customer care was thrown out.The judge actually said the manufacturer did its utmost to help the customers.

The second part was the drop in resale value,there is no fine against the company.Well there is in a sort of around about way,if the appeal fails.

Until the appeal is heard no one will get a cent,so who knows what is going to happen,and when,it could drag on for years.I agree,they should get what they deserve,the company and the customers.Whether its Ford,Toyota,Land Rover,or who ever.Mazda was caught out recently as well.

And not all vehicles built during those years had the issue,so its probably no where near the number that was reported in the media,and other click bait sites.

Unlike Ford Aust a few years ago,they had to give around 3000 customers new vehicles,and the fine of around $10M,for,as the judge said "unconscionable conduct"

Ford dont sell many vehicles,Ranger is their flagship,without it,they wouldnt be here.So taking into the account the number of vehicles sold,they were in a lot more trouble than Tojo.

And as i said on here recently,Ford are still up to their tricks,we recently bought a Ranger with supposedly Heavy Duty suspension,which we found out wasnt HD at all.
We didnt really complain to the dealership,just asked what the definition of HD was,and they were very quick to offer to give us the money back,for the suspension,or send the vehicle to the local spring guy to have it fitted with HD suspension.
We had the vehicle already sorted by then,as it couldnt be driven at night as it was sitting down at the rear,and the headlights blinded other drivers.
The spring guy we used just laughed and said he has done lots of them,but didnt want to get involved with the manufacturer,but said they are just ripping off unsuspecting buyers.The standard set of leaves are exactly the same as their so called HD set,no difference at all,and the same number of leaves.

[BMKal]

At least the EV shouldn’t have any injector or DPF issues[bigwhistle]

Dunno about that. This woman seems to be having some issues with getting the petrol nozzle at her local garage to fit into her Tesla ...............

180020

[ozscott]

If you listen to Cadogen,he has a vid with a bit about LR's customer care efforts[bigsad][biggrin]

As for Toyota,part of the class action to do with customer care was thrown out.The judge actually said the manufacturer did its utmost to help the customers.

The second part was the drop in resale value,there is no fine against the company.Well there is in a sort of around about way,if the appeal fails.

Until the appeal is heard no one will get a cent,so who knows what is going to happen,and when,it could drag on for years.I agree,they should get what they deserve,the company and the customers.Whether its Ford,Toyota,Land Rover,or who ever.Mazda was caught out recently as well.

And not all vehicles built during those years had the issue,so its probably no where near the number that was reported in the media,and other click bait sites.

Unlike Ford Aust a few years ago,they had to give around 3000 customers new vehicles,and the fine of around $10M,for,as the judge said "unconscionable conduct"

Ford dont sell many vehicles,Ranger is their flagship,without it,they wouldnt be here.So taking into the account the number of vehicles sold,they were in a lot more trouble than Tojo.

And as i said on here recently,Ford are still up to their tricks,we recently bought a Ranger with supposedly Heavy Duty suspension,which we found out wasnt HD at all.
We didnt really complain to the dealership,just asked what the definition of HD was,and they were very quick to offer to give us the money back,for the suspension,or send the vehicle to the local spring guy to have it fitted with HD suspension.
We had the vehicle already sorted by then,as it couldnt be driven at night as it was sitting down at the rear,and the headlights blinded other drivers.
The spring guy we used just laughed and said he has done lots of them,but didnt want to get involved with the manufacturer,but said they are just ripping off unsuspecting buyers.The standard set of leaves are exactly the same as their so called HD set,no difference at all,and the same number of leaves.He does do some good ones about LR but also about Toyota and Ford. Classic. Cheers

[RANDLOVER]

I am pretty certain that those unfortunate TDV6 owners with a snapped crankshaft would gladly swap that problem for a bit of paint peel instead[bigwhistle]

It's not just a bit of paint flecks coming off, it can come off in sheets as it seems they used the incorrect primer coat, so the colour coat hasn't bonded to the primer, and here is a little known fact primer offers very little protection if any against rust, so then the car corrodes.

I'm surprised the colour exposed is grey, not a boring bland beige which I think is the colour best suited to most Toyotas.