Signs a rear propshaft centre bearing needs replacing

[BushDisco]

Hi distinguished forumites, I've noticed in recent months that when on a freeway and coasting or under very light throttle that i feel a vibration which in my mind may be the rear prop shaft. Or not.

SDV6 4 my12 with 230k and well serviced. Wheels balanced (certainly not front wheel balance issue as I don't feel through the steering wheel).

Was under the disco today starting a fluids service so I took the cover off the rear shaft, grasping next to the centre bearing I could push and pull the shaft up and down, getting maybe 3 to 4 cm Max movement between extremes.

Inspected the rubber bush surrounding the bearing and couldn't see any cracks or gaps. Seemed supple and intact with no obvious issues, and zero latteral movement felt in the bearing.

At $500 for a replacement I'd rather not replace if not ready, so how do I definitively diagnose a failing centre bush, or rule it out?

Cheers.

[veebs]

I’m no expert, but that certainly sounds very worn to me - I’d expect no more than a few mm of play, but wait for others to chime in before taking my word!

[Jpdv]

Just to say that the most exciting moment of my driving career was many years ago, when my MGB GT was thrashing along a road in England, at it's maximum speed of about 80 mph,(!) when the rear propshaft came loose from the front universal joint. That's when I learnt why the MG had a little armoured cowl above this area... The propshaft, now being 'driven' solely by the rear wheels, stared spinning in a circle defined at the top by the transmission tunnel, and at the bottom by the road surface...A colossal bang as the impact drove the ashtray in the transmission tunnel up into the roof, showering a panicking me with ash, immediately followed by a series of pogo-hops as the whole car bounced off the front of the shaft digging into the road... Imagine doing about 100kph and having the rear end bounce repeatedly about a foot into the air.

The thrashing shaft then battered the armoured cowl loose, to the surprise of the puzzled drivers following this maniac, as a piece of metal bounced down the road, trailing sparks... I came to a halt at the roadside with a heart rate of about 300, and a completely dead vehicle...

Whenever I worry about LR reliability, I remember that vehicle... I once drove from France to the UK in Winter, having to reach out and 'jog' the wipers by hand to get them to start, every time...

[Discodicky]

Just to say that the most exciting moment of my driving career was many years ago, when my MGB GT was thrashing along a road in England, at it's maximum speed of about 80 mph,(!) when the rear propshaft came loose from the front universal joint. That's when I learnt why the MG had a little armoured cowl above this area... The propshaft, now being 'driven' solely by the rear wheels, stared spinning in a circle defined at the top by the transmission tunnel, and at the bottom by the road surface...A colossal bang as the impact drove the ashtray in the transmission tunnel up into the roof, showering a panicking me with ash, immediately followed by a series of pogo-hops as the whole car bounced off the front of the shaft digging into the road... Imagine doing about 100kph and having the rear end bounce repeatedly about a foot into the air.

The thrashing shaft then battered the armoured cowl loose, to the surprise of the puzzled drivers following this maniac, as a piece of metal bounced down the road, trailing sparks... I came to a halt at the roadside with a heart rate of about 300, and a completely dead vehicle...

Whenever I worry about LR reliability, I remember that vehicle... I once drove from France to the UK in Winter, having to reach out and 'jog' the wipers by hand to get them to start, every time...

Ah yes, but the wipers were "powered by LUCAS", so what else would you expect?? [bigrolf]

[Barraman]

Hi distinguished forumites, I've noticed in recent months that when on a freeway and coasting or under very light throttle that i feel a vibration which in my mind may be the rear prop shaft. Or not.
SDV6 4 my12 with 230k and well serviced. Wheels balanced (certainly not front wheel balance issue as I don't feel through the steering wheel).
Was under the disco today starting a fluids service so I took the cover off the rear shaft, grasping next to the centre bearing I could push and pull the shaft up and down, getting maybe 3 to 4 cm Max movement between extremes.
Inspected the rubber bush surrounding the bearing and couldn't see any cracks or gaps. Seemed supple and intact with no obvious issues, and zero latteral movement felt in the bearing.
At $500 for a replacement I'd rather not replace if not ready, so how do I definitively diagnose a failing centre bush, or rule it out?
Cheers.

Recently 'been there - done that'! I first noticed a 'ticking' under acceleration, ie pulling away from the lights. The speed of the 'tick' increased with the speed of the vehicle.

Rear propshaft bearing replaced and wallet lighter by $1,2000 - all good!

2015 D4 TDv6 with 235,000 km on the clock!

[scarry]

Just to say that the most exciting moment of my driving career was many years ago, when my MGB GT was thrashing along a road in England, at it's maximum speed of about 80 mph,(!) when the rear propshaft came loose from the front universal joint. That's when I learnt why the MG had a little armoured cowl above this area... The propshaft, now being 'driven' solely by the rear wheels, stared spinning in a circle defined at the top by the transmission tunnel, and at the bottom by the road surface...A colossal bang as the impact drove the ashtray in the transmission tunnel up into the roof, showering a panicking me with ash, immediately followed by a series of pogo-hops as the whole car bounced off the front of the shaft digging into the road... Imagine doing about 100kph and having the rear end bounce repeatedly about a foot into the air.

The thrashing shaft then battered the armoured cowl loose, to the surprise of the puzzled drivers following this maniac, as a piece of metal bounced down the road, trailing sparks... I came to a halt at the roadside with a heart rate of about 300, and a completely dead vehicle...

Whenever I worry about LR reliability, I remember that vehicle... I once drove from France to the UK in Winter, having to reach out and 'jog' the wipers by hand to get them to start, every time...

Many D2's did the same over the years,it was the double cardon joint on the front driveshaft that let go.
No doubt very few at that sort of speed,but they often caused a huge amount of damage when they failed,and scared the **** out of anyone in the vehicle.

[350RRC]

Many D2's did the same over the years,it was the double cardon joint on the front driveshaft that let go.
No doubt very few at that sort of speed,but they often caused a huge amount of damage when they failed,and scared the **** out of anyone in the vehicle.

Didn't that usually trash the transfer case?

A minor issue in comparison these days, with the 'beloved nuances' of D3's and 4's'.

DL

[scarry]

Didn't that usually trash the transfer case?

DL

Yes they often did.

Another wonderfull piece of LR engineering,being sealed and unserviceable[bigsad][biggrin]

The aftermarket mobs were onto them pretty quickly with some good options.

[letherm]

Whenever I worry about LR reliability, I remember that vehicle... I once drove from France to the UK in Winter, having to reach out and 'jog' the wipers by hand to get them to start, every time...

Oh, that brings back memories of early childhood.

Dad had a Standard 10 (I think) and his wipers were manual. That is, the passenger had to pull down a wire underneath the passenger side dash to operate them and keep going until the rain stopped. Can't remember what dad did when he was by himself!:eek2:

Pretty sure it wouldn't pass a rego check these days.

Martin

[Eric SDV6SE]

Rear propshaft bearing replaced and wallet lighter by $1,2000 - all good!

Should be relatively easy DIY and centre bearing cost is minimal. Why would the whole propshaft need to be replaced if only the bearing has failed?

https://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/tf2395-replacement-centre-bearing-for-lr037027--tvb500360-1151067-p.asp

[kelvo]

Should be relatively easy DIY and centre bearing cost is minimal. Why would the whole propshaft need to be replaced if only the bearing has failed?

TF2395 Replacement Centre Bearing for LR037027 / TVB500360 (https://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/tf2395-replacement-centre-bearing-for-lr037027--tvb500360-1151067-p.asp)
Just replacing the centre bearing seems to be false economy, as they don’t seem to last. Many UK independent LR garages will only replace the complete shaft. Lots of threads/FB posts complaining that the bearing has failed after a short time when only the bearing has been replaced, regardless of bearing make/quality.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Fair enough, new propshaft 653 aud plus the fitting kit plus freight and ir easily gets to 1k. I wonder if people bother to accurately mark the installed position before removing, as these shafts are most likely dynamically balanced. I would be looking at getting the original shaft rebalanced and I would do the bearing, uni joints and re grease the splines all at once.

[scarry]

Just replacing the centre bearing seems to be false economy, as they don’t seem to last. Many UK independent LR garages will only replace the complete shaft. Lots of threads/FB posts complaining that the bearing has failed after a short time when only the bearing has been replaced, regardless of bearing make/quality.

There also could be something else worn or out of balance that is causing the bearing to fail prematurely.

Replacing the complete shaft is definitely piece of mind if the vehicle is being kept for the long term.

[Redtail]

Didn't that usually trash the transfer case?

A minor issue in comparison these days, with the 'beloved nuances' of D3's and 4's'.

DL

Transfer case? I wish.
When mine went on my D2, it took out the entire transmission. [bigsad]

[BushDisco]

Thanks all for the thoughtful replies. It’s important to note that at this point the vibration is only slight, only on little acceleration, only at freeway speeds and only noticeable on a smooth road for the first few minutes. Also seems to be more noticeable in the early morning, hard to pick up in the evening.

So to my original question, how much deflection is normal / ok for the shaft at rest using only my hand to push and pull?

happy to replace if the rubber grommet is too soft and close to splitting, but don’t like replacing things Willy Molly without proper diagnosis.

[DiscoJeffster]

I think you’ve got your answer. We don’t know and are only guessing, so maybe take it to an LR specialist and ask them?

[Jpdv]

Of note, from the manual:


The front and rear drive shafts are not serviceable items and a failure will require the replacement of the completedrive shaft assembly.






And, with respect to the bearing:


Shaft Bearing Assembly
The shaft bearing assembly comprises a pressed steel housing, a rubber diaphragm and a ball bearing. Thediaphragm is bonded into the housing. An internal metal ring, bonded to the bush, allows for the bearing to be pressfitted into it. The rubber bush allows for small deviations in alignment and also absorbs vibrational forces. The shaftbearing assembly is located by screws, which pass through plain holes in the bearing assembly and locate into nutswelded on the inside face of the chassis cross-member.






That doesn't sound like something you should be able to get 3 to 4 cm of movement by hand on...

[BushDisco]

Thanks JPVD,
the bearing is fine, no movement, the rubber bush/ grommet surrounding the bearing is where I can force the movement, and not 3 to 4 cm, but certainly 5 to 7 mm in each direction.

I would expect some deflection as it’s job is to absorb vibration. I just don’t know how much is too much, or if it’s fine and the vibration is coming from elsewhere.

[Grahame Roberts]

Hi distinguished forumites, I've noticed in recent months that when on a freeway and coasting or under very light throttle that i feel a vibration which in my mind may be the rear prop shaft. Or not.

SDV6 4 my12 with 230k and well serviced. Wheels balanced (certainly not front wheel balance issue as I don't feel through the steering wheel).

Was under the disco today starting a fluids service so I took the cover off the rear shaft, grasping next to the centre bearing I could push and pull the shaft up and down, getting maybe 3 to 4 cm Max movement between extremes.

Inspected the rubber bush surrounding the bearing and couldn't see any cracks or gaps. Seemed supple and intact with no obvious issues, and zero latteral movement felt in the bearing.

At $500 for a replacement I'd rather not replace if not ready, so how do I definitively diagnose a failing centre bush, or rule it out?

Cheers.

There’s a few YouTube videos on this topic if you want to do some research there. Good luck. 👍🏻🙏🦘

[gazcabs76]

The symptoms of my centre bearing failing (on a 2004 L322) was a knocking sound coming from under the centre of the car (more or less below centre cubby) when pulling away. Once up to speed there was no noise at all. Certainly helped my fuel consumption a bit!

I didn't even look to see if it was knackered, I just kinda knew that's what it was. Anyway, it started grinding continuously on the way to my mums so I had to stop and get recovered the last 25 miles, didn't want to risk a complete failure.

Ordered a new rear propshaft from Cardanline (Spain) at around £360 and fitted it myself on the driveway. The bearing was completely shot, hardly any rubber left and it had worn through the thin metal of the bearing support.

I know it would have been cheaper to replace just the bearing but that meant splitting the propshaft, possibly finding worn UJ's and tools needed that I didn't have. For peace of mind and ease I just fitted a new one. I think for a D3/D4 the propshafts are cheaper and the access is easier, as on the L322 it runs above the exhaust pipes behind a heatshield. Manual said to remove the exhaust altogether but you can do it with just removing the long heatshield.

Took about a full day all in but I wasn't rushing. Saved myself some pennies doing it myself but now costing more in fuel as I don't have to pull away so slowly now.

[BushDisco]

Thanks Gazvcabs, certainly looks shot and good you replaced when you did. Thx for the considered post.

[Milton477]

Having been down a similar road with errant vibrations you may want to consider my experience here:

Really Bad Vibration (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/282424-really-bad-vibration.html)

[jwb]

There’s a few YouTube videos on this topic if you want to do some research there. Good luck. 👍🏻🙏🦘

Check this out when you can. How we replaced the drive shaft on our Land Rover Discovery 3 / LR3 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSoDLaB3oUU&t=525s)

Also Things you may not know about your Land Rover driveshaft (or propshaft) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o70e_3QioZI&t=1198s)

There's discussion about not just doing the center bearing somewhere as well.