Adding Fuel - BEWARE

[Beasdefender]

After schlepping 20L of diesel, strapped to my LR roof rack, across Australia for fear of running short somewhere I decided I no longer needed to do so and could lighten my load by tipping it into my tank. I was on the eastern end of the Gibb River Road. However, I was bewildered to find that my new Beast has a metal locking flap in the filler tube, beneath the cap, that I could not open, no matter how I tried. Despite having no problems at any stage filling at standard station pumps, there was nothing I could do to pry open the filler pipe flap.

(as an aside I found "high flow diesel" pumps across the country have a pipe that is too big to fit in my Beast's filler tube)

There was nothing I could do until I reached phone coverage and the internet. I checked and it seems European models have a locking external flap opened from the cab rather than the always open pop external flap on my mine. Out of ideas I called the Land Rover assist line. Then the fun began.

The polite and pleasant guy I spoke to was interested only in whether I was out of fuel. "No", I said, "I just want to add 20 L down the filler pipe". "But are you out of fuel, if so, we can get someone out to help you." "No" I insisted, "I just want to tip fuel into the tank". Around and around we went until he assured me there is a mechanism in place to stop unwanted additions. I persistently asked for a workaround but was told only "if you're out of fuel I can help" which seemed laughable to me. I was eventually told to 'take it back to the LR dealer where you bought it and see if they can help".

So, the good news is, I had no trouble finding diesel wherever I went and never came close to running out with a 90L standard tank. Even more good news, I won't be trying to carry additional fuel again. And the big lesson ? It's not possible to add it as far as I can tell, so don't bother taking it.....unless one of you clever fellas has worked out how to solve the problem ...

[DieselLSE]

...unless one of you clever fellas has worked out how to solve the problem ...
Where do I start?
There are two problems really, but I'll get to the second one later. The first issue is bypassing - what I presume is - the misfuelling device in the filler neck. If you were to chance your arm and use a funnel of some sort it may have triggered the device which would have made any fuelling impossible until the device was reset. I have no idea how the system works in a new Defender. The D4 device came with a plastic reset tool. Others here will explain how the Defender system works.
But the second problem is that you should have sorted this before undertaking your trip. There are so many things that can go wrong in remote locations that you may as well sort out the easy ones in advance and be as prepared as you can for the weird ones. For the D4 I was able to fit a second tank and a dual filler which didn't have a misfuelling device and allowed the use of high flow nozzles. For jerry can refuelling I pack a metal long nose offset filler (onto which a water separator can sit to filter dodgy outback diesel) which can be held in place in the filler neck while I manhandle the jerry can.
Relying on someone else at the end of a phone to sort out a basic issue should not be a part of any trip plan.

[TonyC]

Relying on someone else at the end of a phone to sort out a basic issue should not be a part of any trip plan.

To be fair, you can only find a workaround if know the the problem exists.

At least he has put it out there, and I'm sure there will be a solution, maybe as simple as a funnel with a spout that opens the little door, and we will all learn something.

Tony

[scarry]

Where do I start?
There are two problems really, but I'll get to the second one later. The first issue is bypassing - what I presume is - the misfuelling device in the filler neck. If you were to chance your arm and use a funnel of some sort it may have triggered the device which would have made any fuelling impossible until the device was reset. I have no idea how the system works in a new Defender. The D4 device came with a plastic reset tool. Others here will explain how the Defender system works.
But the second problem is that you should have sorted this before undertaking your trip. There are so many things that can go wrong in remote locations that you may as well sort out the easy ones in advance and be as prepared as you can for the weird ones. For the D4 I was able to fit a second tank and a dual filler which didn't have a misfuelling device and allowed the use of high flow nozzles. For jerry can refuelling I pack a metal long nose offset filler (onto which a water separator can sit to filter dodgy outback diesel) which can be held in place in the filler neck while I manhandle the jerry can.
Relying on someone else at the end of a phone to sort out a basic issue should not be a part of any trip plan.

Even with the device tripped in the D4,fuel can still be dribbled in.It could be in the D4 we had.
I never found out what actually tripped it,but we had just done over 100km on a very badly corrogated road,so i put it down to the corrogations.

I agree,i would have looked more closely before i set off,particularly doing touring.

There must be a way to put fuel in the tank from a jerrycan,its supposedly a touring vehicle.

[chuck]

Believe it or but the diesel Ford Escape has the same problem.

Cant fill with a jerry can.

Ford supplies a little funnel that is located in the foam spare tyre surround thing.

From memory it is grey.

Works for Landrover D4's & 5's

I know because once at work we had to off hire a 1000 litre diesel fuel cell and the hire company said they would charge us to clean the tank if it came back partially full so we divvied it up into jerry cans so had to use the funnel thing to make it work.

[JessicaTam]

Believe it or but the diesel Ford Escape has the same problem.

Cant fill with a jerry can.

Ford supplies a little funnel that is located in the foam spare tyre surround thing.

From memory it is grey.

Works for Landrover D4's & 5's

I know because once at work we had to off hire a 1000 litre diesel fuel cell and the hire company said they would charge us to clean the tank if it came back partially full so we divvied it up into jerry cans so had to use the funnel thing to make it work.
The Defender also comes with a small funnel. It is white and in the foam insert with the jack and wheel brace.

[Arapiles]

My fuel cans all have nozzles and when we carried jerry cans we also carried a funnel with a fine mesh screen - in the absence of a screw on nozzle or carrying a funnel, how would you get the fuel in? Just slosh it in from the mouth of the jerry can?

[kenl]

I think it all comes down to the diameter of the nozzle, the petrol nozzles are smaller and trigger the mis-fuel device.

So if your funnel or jerrycan have a petrol size nozzle (likely) then you will have this problem.

Likewise some rural service stations use what they have on hand and have been known to use to UPL nozzles on diesel pumps.

It's been a while since I fuelled a petrol car but don't they have a small hole with a flap that pushed aside by the nozzle? And the diesel with a misfueling device gets triggered by the same small nozzle?

[scarry]

I think it all comes down to the diameter of the nozzle, the petrol nozzles are smaller and trigger the mis-fuel device.

So if your funnel or jerrycan have a petrol size nozzle (likely) then you will have this problem.

Likewise some rural service stations use what they have on hand and have been known to use to UPL nozzles on diesel pumps.

It's been a while since I fuelled a petrol car but don't they have a small hole with a flap that pushed aside by the nozzle? And the diesel with a misfueling device gets triggered by the same small nozzle?

Cant the funnel or the nozzle on the Jerry be held back a bit so it doesnt go into the filler hole?

Often takes two people,this is what i used to do on the D4,with no issues.

In fact with the D4,a wheelie bin,if there is one around, was just the right height to support the jerry,as it was draining in to the tank.MAy work with the Defender as well?

On another note,if i had a Defender,the first mod i would do is get the aftermarket fuel tank,until one has had a large fuel tank,you dont realise how handy they for touring ,particularly when towing.

[JessicaTam]

<snip>
On another note,if i had a Defender,the first mod i would do is get the aftermarket fuel tank,until one has had a large fuel tank,you dont realise how handy they for touring ,particularly when towing.
Indeed. I have a 174l tank on order from the Long Ranger.

[Jase_T]

Indeed. I have a 174l tank on order from the Long Ranger.

Keen to get your thoughts on this when you fit it. Looks like it hangs down quite a bit and can't use the factory underbody protection?

[JessicaTam]

Keen to get your thoughts on this when you fit it. Looks like it hangs down quite a bit and can't use the factory underbody protection?
The underbody protection that has to be removed is quite flimsy so no great loss. I have actually ordered the tank with built in protection on the base so it will be a bit less than 174 litres.

[Beasdefender]

I am not a complete nong folks and while I accept the good advice that I should have tested every function on which I would rely before leaving home, I didn't think tipping diesel from a jerry can into a tank would pose any problems. I knew all my other gear worked.

And... I did try the (a) land rover supplied funnel - it's for AdBlue - and it had no impact on the diesel pipe lock I encountered, nor did the (b) metal funnel I tried or the (c) plastic one (both of different diameters) nor (d, e, f ...) my fingers, the various other implements I and my two buddies thought might pry the thing open. I remain ignorant of how to bypass the thing.

I also think that help 'on the end of the line' should be expected, especially with a 'new' model and legendary unreliability in the past. For what I paid for this thing, it should come with decent online support, now standard across industries. Further, without any telephone coverage (most of Australia outside the cities) the online manual (which I have been unable to download) is not available.

Perhaps it was just me, but I could not get over the irony of the helpful guy on the phone wanting to dispatch all sorts of help to me at whatever significant cost to me/LR, as opposed to knowing how to flip a flap in the filler pipe.

Surely a much simpler and more effective approach would be lock the external flap, unlocking it from the cabin, as is widely implemented around the world in all makes/models.








After schlepping 20L of diesel, strapped to my LR roof rack, across Australia for fear of running short somewhere I decided I no longer needed to do so and could lighten my load by tipping it into my tank. I was on the eastern end of the Gibb River Road. However, I was bewildered to find that my new Beast has a metal locking flap in the filler tube, beneath the cap, that I could not open, no matter how I tried. Despite having no problems at any stage filling at standard station pumps, there was nothing I could do to pry open the filler pipe flap.

(as an aside I found "high flow diesel" pumps across the country have a pipe that is too big to fit in my Beast's filler tube)

There was nothing I could do until I reached phone coverage and the internet. I checked and it seems European models have a locking external flap opened from the cab rather than the always open pop external flap on my mine. Out of ideas I called the Land Rover assist line. Then the fun began.

The polite and pleasant guy I spoke to was interested only in whether I was out of fuel. "No", I said, "I just want to add 20 L down the filler pipe". "But are you out of fuel, if so, we can get someone out to help you." "No" I insisted, "I just want to tip fuel into the tank". Around and around we went until he assured me there is a mechanism in place to stop unwanted additions. I persistently asked for a workaround but was told only "if you're out of fuel I can help" which seemed laughable to me. I was eventually told to 'take it back to the LR dealer where you bought it and see if they can help".

So, the good news is, I had no trouble finding diesel wherever I went and never came close to running out with a 90L standard tank. Even more good news, I won't be trying to carry additional fuel again. And the big lesson ? It's not possible to add it as far as I can tell, so don't bother taking it.....unless one of you clever fellas has worked out how to solve the problem ...

[DiscoJeffster]

I don’t understand. If there’s a metal thing that stopped you filling it up from a jerry can, what makes it possible with a fuel nozzle? Why is it different?

[Beasdefender]

yep, that one is for adding AdBlue.....



The Defender also comes with a small funnel. It is white and in the foam insert with the jack and wheel brace.

[Beasdefender]

No idea... that's the question ! Maybe it's the exact diameter of the fuel filler ? Maybe there's a magnet in there somewhere that repels ? I don't know... it could be even more exotic/electronic...GPS telling it that it is at a petrol station.... I just don't know. That's exactly the information I was seeking from Land Rover. Like everything, there must be a simple explanation, I just don't what it is !








I don’t understand. If there’s a metal thing that stopped you filling it up from a jerry can, what makes it possible with a fuel nozzle? Why is it different?

[jon3950]

I am not a complete nong folks and while I accept the good advice that I should have tested every function on which I would rely before leaving home, I didn't think tipping diesel from a jerry can into a tank would pose any problems.


And who would have? This is something that has just never been an issue on previous vehicles, so why would you expect it? At least now you've posted we can all be wise after the event and not fall into the same trap.

Cheers,
Jon

[DieselLSE]

And who would have? This is something that has just never been an issue on previous vehicles...Cheers, Jon
Yes it has. Not sure when it commenced, but at least from 2013, diesel D4s had a misfuelling device that prevented filling with anything other than a standard commercial diesel pump nozzle (or something that emulated one). Actually, this issue prompted me to seek a solution for remote area refuelling. I presume I discovered it in the owners handbook as I read it from cover to cover to familiarise myself with the car. My solution was a Brown Davis additional tank with a dual filler.

[jon3950]

My D4 had a mis-fueling device, but it was never a problem to fill from a jerry can?

Something must be different.

[DieselLSE]

My D4 had a mis-fueling device, but it was never a problem to fill from a jerry can?

Something must be different.
No. You must have simply used a funnel or something else to prevent spillage that didn't go too deep into the filler tube to trigger the misfuelling device. I found it difficult to use a jerry can without spilling fuel everywhere. From memory, the fuel flap didn't give you a lot of room.

[scarry]

No. You must have simply used a funnel or something else to prevent spillage that didn't go too deep into the filler tube to trigger the misfuelling device. I found it difficult to use a jerry can without spilling fuel everywhere. From memory, the fuel flap didn't give you a lot of room.

The Jerry cans i use have a spout that can be fitted to them,i filled the D4 numerous times no issues.

As i said in another post,even if the misfueling device trips,on the D4,fuel can still be dribbled in.Well it could be on ours.

And its easy to reset it with the yellow plastic device.

[jon3950]

No. You must have simply used a funnel or something else to prevent spillage that didn't go too deep into the filler tube to trigger the misfuelling device. I found it difficult to use a jerry can without spilling fuel everywhere. From memory, the fuel flap didn't give you a lot of room.

I guess I must have.

It was just the spout supplied with the jerry. I’m sure if I shoved it in all the way it would have triggered it, but just pouring it in normally presented no problem.

My reading of the OP is that it was more difficult than that and without a hard copy owners manual it was difficult to solve on the road. There is so much technology in these new vehicles (a lot of it unnecessary) it is hard to keep on top of everything. With the size of the owners handbook and the fact that it is only available on-line makes it easy to be caught out by something unexpected.

[scarry]

With the size of the owners handbook and the fact that it is only available on-line makes it easy to be caught out by something unexpected.

Surely it can be downloaded and kept on a device such as a phone,or Ipad,so accessible even out of range?

[jon3950]

I’m sure it can, I’m sure there’s a solution for all of this. The only point I’m trying to make is it’s easy to get caught out by the unexpected.

[Arapiles]

So .... if what is being described is the misfuelling device that's been triggered for some reason then, like the D4, the L663 is supposed to have an emergency funnel:


https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/T19950/38261_en_GBR/proc/G1862756

https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/T19950/38261_en_GBR/proc/G2220232



ACTIVE DIESEL MISFUELLING PROTECTION DEVICE
CAUTION
Do not force an incorrectly sized fuel pump nozzle into the filler neck. Forcing an incorrectly sized fuel pump nozzle into the filler neck may result in damage to the vehicle.


https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/proc/graphic/E176483/en/USA
Vehicles with a diesel engine may have an active misfuelling protection device. A metal flap is visible in the filler neck when the fuel filler cap is removed. The active misfuelling protection device helps to prevent the fuel tank from being filled with the incorrect fuel, e.g., petrol. Refuelling is permitted if a correctly sized, diesel fuel pump's filler nozzle is inserted, fully and squarely, into the vehicle's fuel filler neck, as illustrated.
NOTES
To refuel with a fuel can, use the emergency funnel supplied with the vehicle. See RUNNING OUT OF FUEL (https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/T19950/38261_en_GBR/proc/G2220232).

NOTES
Misfuelling devices are dependent on the market specification.




RUNNING OUT OF FUEL
CAUTION
Avoid running out of fuel. Doing so can cause damage to the vehicle's engine, fuel, and emission control systems.

NOTES
If the vehicle does run out of fuel, seeking qualified assistance is advisable.

If the vehicle does run out of fuel, a minimum of 4.0 L is required to restart the engine. See FUEL FILLER FLAP (https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/T19950/38261_en_GBR/proc/G2381611).
The vehicle should be left with the ignition switched on for 5 minutes after refuelling, before attempting to restart the engine. The vehicle needs to be driven for a distance of 1.5 to 5 km in order to reset the engine management and monitoring systems.

https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/proc/graphic/E173721/en/USA
Vehicles with a diesel engine may be supplied with an active misfuelling device. A metal flap is visible in the filler neck when the fuel filler cap is removed. Use the emergency funnel supplied with the vehicle to refill the fuel tank with a fuel can. Insert the funnel into the filler neck, fully and squarely, to open the active misfuelling device. See ACTIVE DIESEL MISFUELLING PROTECTION DEVICE (https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/T19950/38261_en_GBR/proc/G1862756).
NOTES
Misfuelling devices are dependent on the market specification.

[jon3950]

Interesting and makes sense of the OP’s problem. Totally different method of operation to what was in my D4 (MY13), which had the yellow plastic thing to reset it when it was triggered.

Just another unnecessary complication to me. May be a clever idea if you always fill up in European service stations but in the outback not so much.

[Tombie]

So .... if what is being described is the misfuelling device that's been triggered for some reason then, like the D4, the L663 is supposed to have an emergency funnel:


https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/T19950/38261_en_GBR/proc/G1862756

https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/T19950/38261_en_GBR/proc/G2220232



ACTIVE DIESEL MISFUELLING PROTECTION DEVICE
CAUTION
Do not force an incorrectly sized fuel pump nozzle into the filler neck. Forcing an incorrectly sized fuel pump nozzle into the filler neck may result in damage to the vehicle.


https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/proc/graphic/E176483/en/USA
Vehicles with a diesel engine may have an active misfuelling protection device. A metal flap is visible in the filler neck when the fuel filler cap is removed. The active misfuelling protection device helps to prevent the fuel tank from being filled with the incorrect fuel, e.g., petrol. Refuelling is permitted if a correctly sized, diesel fuel pump's filler nozzle is inserted, fully and squarely, into the vehicle's fuel filler neck, as illustrated.
NOTES
To refuel with a fuel can, use the emergency funnel supplied with the vehicle. See RUNNING OUT OF FUEL (https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/T19950/38261_en_GBR/proc/G2220232).

NOTES
Misfuelling devices are dependent on the market specification.




RUNNING OUT OF FUEL
CAUTION
Avoid running out of fuel. Doing so can cause damage to the vehicle's engine, fuel, and emission control systems.

NOTES
If the vehicle does run out of fuel, seeking qualified assistance is advisable.

If the vehicle does run out of fuel, a minimum of 4.0 L is required to restart the engine. See FUEL FILLER FLAP (https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/T19950/38261_en_GBR/proc/G2381611).
The vehicle should be left with the ignition switched on for 5 minutes after refuelling, before attempting to restart the engine. The vehicle needs to be driven for a distance of 1.5 to 5 km in order to reset the engine management and monitoring systems.

https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/proc/graphic/E173721/en/USA
Vehicles with a diesel engine may be supplied with an active misfuelling device. A metal flap is visible in the filler neck when the fuel filler cap is removed. Use the emergency funnel supplied with the vehicle to refill the fuel tank with a fuel can. Insert the funnel into the filler neck, fully and squarely, to open the active misfuelling device. See ACTIVE DIESEL MISFUELLING PROTECTION DEVICE (https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2020/T19950/38261_en_GBR/proc/G1862756).
NOTES
Misfuelling devices are dependent on the market specification.


Imagine that. And all found in the handbook [emoji41]

Suggest some here also brush up on battery removal/replacement and a few other topics before potentially damaging their vehicles.

These aren’t what you learned on!!!!!

[JessicaTam]

Surely it can be downloaded and kept on a device such as a phone,or Ipad,so accessible even out of range?
I like old school manuals, so I stumped up the cash and bought a hard copy from JLR UK. Lives in the glovebox so no internet required. :D

[one_iota]

Surely it can be downloaded and kept on a device such as a phone,or Ipad,so accessible even out of range?

Indeed! The Defender user manual the "iGUIDE" app (159 Mb) loaded on my phone doesn't need connection to the outside world.

[Sol]

Believe it or but the diesel Ford Escape has the same problem.

Cant fill with a jerry can.

Ford supplies a little funnel that is located in the foam spare tyre surround thing.

From memory it is grey.

Works for Landrover D4's & 5's

I know because once at work we had to off hire a 1000 litre diesel fuel cell and the hire company said they would charge us to clean the tank if it came back partially full so we divvied it up into jerry cans so had to use the funnel thing to make it work.

This. There is a similar funnel for the L663. Mine was in the glove box and it's white. It's noted in the e-manual

https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3E/2022/T19950/46266_en_GBR/proc/G2220232

There is tool available to reset it as in the D4 and other LRs. I made one out of a bent coat hanger for my D4 but I don't know if the same will work on the L663. I'm guessing it will.

See here also Diesel Misfuel Flap Reset Tool (Genuine) for Land Rover Defender L663 (https://www.powerfuluk.com/diesel-misfuel-flap-reset-tool-genuine-for-land-rover-defender-l663.html) - you can get them on eBay or Aliexpress for cheap - just search LR014017. I've not found one yet in my Defender if one actually came with the car at all.

[Eric SDV6SE]

In the D4 the mis-fuel resetting device was in the passenger side rear compartment If you have the the D300 and no resetting device, go back to your dealer, they should give you one, it's part of the car, just like the jack and spare tyre.

[RangieTony]

I like old school manuals, so I stumped up the cash and bought a hard copy from JLR UK. Lives in the glovebox so no internet required. :D. I'm in the same boat as you. I have just bought a 97 Range Rover Autobiography and everyone is quoting the "rave" manual which involves downloading the site for it. Now me and computers and smart phones have a hate relationship (notice the absence of "love") so I couldn't get it to open so its now at my brother in laws who is a printer and is going to print and bind the 2000 pages for me. That will be the first thing in the car when we go away regardless! Sons reckon when I walk into a room towards a computer it goes into emergency shutdown!![bighmmm]

[Sol]

In the D4 the mis-fuel resetting device was in the passenger side rear compartment If you have the the D300 and no resetting device, go back to your dealer, they should give you one, it's part of the car, just like the jack and spare tyre.

Interesting - had a look but nothing to be seen other than what looks like a resetting tool shaped space under the cargo area ...

180543

[one_iota]

Interesting - had a look but nothing to be seen other than what looks like a resetting tool shaped space under the cargo area ...

180543

There is a world-wide shortage of genuine Land Rover diesel mis-fuel resetting devices apparently!

[Eric SDV6SE]

Few other bits missing from that kit too by the looks of it. I've made a note to check mine pre delivery. For the cash I'm spending, it has to be complete.

[mclifo]

In my 2025 Defender, there is an "active misfuelling device" funnel that has to be insertedfully into the filler neck fully and squarely.

[p38arover]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUbH8pMT76U

[jwb]

the early L663's had that yellow misfueling device like the D4's - likely they were running out old stock?
Now there is the flap that is in place all the time that the fatter diesel nozzle deactivates.
Also I saw a comment about needing something special for the Adblue which is not the case, jerry can nozzle works fine.