New Engine or Reconditioned Engine

[Allyoop]

Hi all,

I have just been advised my Disco 4 SDV6 HSE 2012 engine is Kaput [bawl]
My partner very lovingly offered to fi another in for me. Does anyone have any advice on which engines, where to get engines, best way to go about this? We are on the Sunshine Coast QLD
Thanks in advance

[scarry]

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry to hear of another engine failure in a D4.

Have a good search on here,quite a few have had the same problem.Lots of info.

If you can sort it yourselves,it’s probably worth doing,but if you have to pay for someone to do it,it’s going to cost something like half the value of the vehicle or more,at a guess.

Good luck with it all[biggrin]

[DazzaTD5]

As the fan boys like to tell people, the failure rate of D3 / D4 engines is less that 1%, I'm sure that's comforting to you.

options / notes:
*There is no new engines, the Ford factory in the U.K stop making engines somewhere around 2019 perhaps. (the factory is now a body pressing plant).
*Used engines in AU will cost somewhere round $10 - $15K. (if you can find one).
*A used engine supplied and installed by a trusted workshop will be around $20 - $25K.
*A rebuilt engine from the U.K (freight and import duties normally kill this option, round $3K to freight) might be ok, but consider if there is an issue with the engine you have basically kissed a engine warranty good bye as to send an engine back will cost double in freight.

*A rebuilt engine done in AU, sounds good and prolly is good if you can find a great workshop to do it.
*I have not got any workshop locally to rebuild these engines as I know of a few other workshops that have been stung by a poorly rebuilt engine.
*I have seen on social media of at least one business advertising a rebuilt engine for $11K, but can not find any business details of them, so who only knows.

*If you or anyone else finds a good engine rebuilder, let me and others here know.
*I have just about exhausted any supply of used 3.0 engines. I could find a good rebuilder or (currently) simply don't take on the jobs (better to have no headache than one I can't cure).

The above situation is something I don't wish upon owners. Where is Jaguar Land Rover... busy trying to sell new vehicles.

[chuck]

Dazza

Would the new Ford Ranger 3 litre diesel work?

[DazzaTD5]

Dazza

Would the new Ford Ranger 3 litre diesel work?

I think thats been answered somewhere else on AULRO.
All the details I have looked at with regards to that engine is that it's different. I believe it is also made in the U.S
From the pictures of that engine I saw a few years ago you can see while it is different it does have some familiar lines to it.

It would take someone with a fat wallet (not me) to buy one and see.
Keep in mind though I believe Ford has already slated that engine to be ended, if they havent already.

I've not looked into the details so it's only me speculating.

[scarry]

Keep in mind though I believe Ford has already slated that engine to be ended, if they havent already.

I've not looked into the details so it's only me speculating.

Even though it was used in D5 up to a couple of years ago?

[BradC]

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - LR4 3.0 conversion to 2.7 (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/lr4-30-conversion-27-t-198024.html)

[RANDLOVER]

Hi all,

I have just been advised my Disco 4 SDV6 HSE 2012 engine is Kaput [bawl]
My partner very lovingly offered to fi another in for me. Does anyone have any advice on which engines, where to get engines, best way to go about this? We are on the Sunshine Coast QLD
Thanks in advance

As far as I know the largest LR specialist wrecker near the Sunny Coast is British Off Road - The Land Rover spare parts specialists - Land Rovers, Now Wrecking List (https://www.britishoffroad.com/nowwrecking.aspx). IIRC Range Rover Sports of the same era also had the same engine.

[Hogarthde]

There is a place in the southern district of Adelaide that has hundreds of LandRover and Range Rover ‘wrecks’

[loanrangie]

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - LR4 3.0 conversion to 2.7 (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/lr4-30-conversion-27-t-198024.html)

Not for the faint hearted but does open up possibilities.

[PerthDisco]

Not for the faint hearted but does open up possibilities.

Pretty amazing story. Guy is in NZ. No shortage of 2.7 engines so what a dilemma.

[Steve86]

There also a thread on one that was swapped for a RRS V8.

Disco 4 Turbo Diesel V8 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/289299-disco-4-turbo-diesel-v8.html)

[chuck]

Hi all,

I have just been advised my Disco 4 SDV6 HSE 2012 engine is Kaput [bawl]
My partner very lovingly offered to fi another in for me. Does anyone have any advice on which engines, where to get engines, best way to go about this? We are on the Sunshine Coast QLD
Thanks in advance

Best of luck with it.

[ozscott]

Unfortunately it is the lack of suitable options when they go wrong that adds to the pain. If rebuilds with stronger cranks and bearings (as Ford have done with the same iteration in the new Ranger V6 model) were available then even fitted at say $25k some owners might see 1. it worth the risk of buying these vehicles second hand and 2. For those who already own them, some comfort especially if their vehicle does have the issue.

Otherwise it's not a good day out. Very sorry to the OP it's just awful really.

Cheers

[ramblingboy42]

From where you are , I'd have a chat to British Offroad, I have dealt with them on and off for near 15 years and I have never heard a bad word about them.

Go and see their workshop and consider a rebuild.

British Offroad are possibly a defining reason for my next LR purchase.

[chuck]

With the new Ranger running the strengthened V6 diesel there should be a good source or D4 replacement engines if they can be made to work as these will be bought in high number.

Volkswagen Amarok will have the same motor so you would imagine there will be hundreds of them in the wreckers in the not to distant future.

You can also buy them as crate motors out of the USA.

AFAIK

[Jeffoir]

There is a place in the southern district of Adelaide that has hundreds of LandRover and Range Rover ‘wrecks’

If the QLD wrecker mentioned above is unable to assist, TR Spares Adelaide (https://triumphroverspares.com.au/) supply replacement D4 engines. Yes they are becoming scarce, but some are available. Best to call them and see what is available or coming up.
On other posts in the forum, a very good SE QLD LR Indi is mentioned. See if they can do the transplant.
It’s a bummer for you but if the rest of the car is in good condition, it is worth doing. What other vehicle at a reasonable price, will provide you with what a good D4 will give you?
very best wishes with the project.

[nixo]

Sorry don’t have more for you, but some good comments/advice already. As said there’s British Off-road (have always quoted higher than MR Automotive), MR Automotive (always been pretty good) or perhaps indie like Rover Mobile but not sure if Darren can do that job as he doesn't have a workshop - but he may have some good info none the less (he has mentioned recon motors to me in the past).


I’m now in the same risk category as just moved from petrol D3 to diesel D4 after dithering for ages mainly because of this very issue. I'm hoping that I've got one of the good ones (vast bulk are good). However, I have been wondering if there isn't a way to create some kind of community D3/4 engine replacement insurance scheme?

How much would owners be prepared to pay per year to get cover for a replacement motor? $50 $100? $250?

[Qld.Discolvr]

There are a few options on the sunny coast.

try Alan at Landrover Spares in Gympie. He has stocks of different engines in a container out the back

the other ones to have a go at is a couple of mechanics that work out of their back yard in Ningi near bribe Island.

Brett is the guy to talk to and what he does not know about Sdv6 is not worth knowing.

I recently had my HPFP fail and he was twice as quick and half the price of anybody else in the country.

[Briar]

Sorry don’t have more for you, but some good comments/advice already. As said there’s British Off-road (have always quoted higher than MR Automotive), MR Automotive (always been pretty good) or perhaps indie like Rover Mobile but not sure if Darren can do that job as he doesn't have a workshop - but he may have some good info none the less (he has mentioned recon motors to me in the past).


I’m now in the same risk category as just moved from petrol D3 to diesel D4 after dithering for ages mainly because of this very issue. I'm hoping that I've got one of the good ones (vast bulk are good). However, I have been wondering if there isn't a way to create some kind of community D3/4 engine replacement insurance scheme?

How much would owners be prepared to pay per year to get cover for a replacement motor? $50 $100? $250?


This is an excellent idea and I'd be in. However, who would be the insurer? Some broker or underwriter? If you can't actually get a replacement engine (or short motor) though, what's the point of insurance. It's a pity that if you can't get a replacement motor the car is essentially a "write off". The car can be a write off if all the air bags went off in a small prang, but it's not a write off if the engine carks it and it can't be repaired. I'm at 180,000 and fingers crossed. Even though it might only be 1 or 2% that have issues, it does not help if you are the 1 or 2%. My heart goes out to any that have the issue.

[scarry]

However, I have been wondering if there isn't a way to create some kind of community D3/4 engine replacement insurance scheme?

Should have been some sort of class action or whatever.

The manufacturer did continue to sell vehicles with these engines for decades knowing there was an issue with them.

Ford would have known of the issues as well.

Just imagine if this was happening to a high volume vehicle,Ranger,Hi Lux,Triton,or whatever.It would have been all over the media,etc.

LR have definitely somehow dodged a bullet.

[LeeThal]

My commiserations I’ve just had my 2010 D4 3litre engine replaced after overhearing caused non recoverable cylinder damage
Replaced with long engine ex UK from JLR
No short blocks available with any sort of warranty.
Yes it was $$$ (ouch) - I now have a “new” car with a warranty. It was less expensive than buying a descent used D4
Most indies find engine replacement a challenge (I don’t blame them) and most are up to their eyeballs with work.
I chose Southern Land Rover since they have the guys who have been doing this type of replacement for more than 20 years and provided the warranty
Safe and happy travels 😊

[Kalbee118]

I too have had MY14 D4 3.0TDV6 have a crank failure at 168,500k. I guess I was fortunate in a way as I purchased off a Secondhand stealer and repair was covered by warranty. It took 12 weeks for them to get parts from UK and do the rebuild. Seems to be going great at the moment, but I have only done around 1000km since getting it back. I now hope it hold together for at least another 8 to 10 years and 200,000k

[DazzaTD5]

Most indies find engine replacement a challenge (I don’t blame them) and most are up to their eyeballs with work.
I chose Southern Land Rover since they have the guys who have been doing this type of replacement for more than 20 years and provided the warranty


Just to clarify with what you have said above...

*I could bet most indy Land Rover repairers (me included) don't find doing an engine swap in a D4 a challenge and can bet most have done more than the dealers (certainly more than Southern).
*If I have done at least 40, Rovertech (indy Land Rover repairer) round the corner from me have prolly done a few hundred and they certainly have more experience than Southern.

*Just ask the workshop at Southern how often they phone Rovertech for advise on Land Rovers.
*20 years? again this is not the facts, most dealers including Southern have a far higher turn over of staff in the workshop than most indy repairers.
*I would say all decent indy repairers offer a warranty, mine on engine replacements is 12 months 20K, which I think is fairly standard.

[nixo]

Should have been some sort of class action or whatever.

The manufacturer did continue to sell vehicles with these engines for decades knowing there was an issue with them.

Ford would have known of the issues as well.

Just imagine if this was happening to a high volume vehicle,Ranger,Hi Lux,Triton,or whatever.It would have been all over the media,etc.

LR have definitely somehow dodged a bullet.

I'm surprised there havn't been more class actions around the world o this issue - not sure how they've managed to doge the bullet. Maybe just the low numbers. Given how many are i the UK and Europe, you'd think they'd have done something. Only place to do it properly as I understand it was South Korea - and interesting how JLR handled that: seems vehicles whet in for an inspection where they checked the tolerances (not exactly sure what these tolerances were - but something to do with crank/bearing) and if found to be outside then they got a new free motor from JLR. If this is not a scam by JLR, and you'd have to be a brave company to pull a scam on a government (as I understand it the South Korean government initiated the action), then why can't the rest of us use the same technique to evaluate our susceptibility?

You're about one of the bigger brands - they would have been onto it quicker than scomo giving himself secret powers.

Insurance is a bugger as it's so complicated and complying with regulations would make it a difficult undertaking. Was thinking more along the lines of what in south africa is called a 'stokvel' - group of people come together and pool money to help 1 member get a house (or something expensive), and then the next and so-forth until all have a house. Just done on trust (and patience) and lack of access to credit. If 5000 people put $150 pa into a 'pool' - thats $750k pa to pay for new motors. $250 is $1.2M.

[101RRS]

Maybe LR should take note of Mazdas customer service.

My brother has a 2013 Mazda 6 diesel - he bought it a couple of years ago with 50,000km and it now has 210,000km. Not sure of the exact details but these engines pump raw fuel into the DPF to burn of the carbon etc but the engine has a design fault and the fuel can sometimes find its way into the sump - the car has a sensor to pick this up. Anyway the car was being driven to work and the engine failed due to poor lubrication caused by fuel dilution of the oil - the sensor had failed.

Car is now in with Mazda getting a new engine $10K-$15K - no cost to my brother - as I said this is on a car with 210,000km and was bought as a second hand vehicle.

A pity LR did not have the same customer service ethic.

Garry

[scarry]

And for those that knock Tojo,a mate has a 2016 LC,bought second hand,not much service paperwork,has done the servicing himself for the last 2 yrs he has had it.
Has 190 000Km on it.

Toyota just replaced the two EGR assemblies,two EGR coolers,two DPF's,and the 10 injectors.
No Charge.

Had to wait for the parts,took 5 weeks,gave him a loan car.

Second hand vehicle,unknown service records,way out of warranty,and a job that probably cost the manufacturer around $15 to $20K.

But it was a known issue,and his VIN was on the list as needing it done.

Wake up LR.

Its the crap on these diesels that are causing most of the issues,EGR,DPF,etc,etc.[bigsad]

[shack]

Toyota just replaced the two EGR assemblies,two EGR coolers,two DPF's,and the 10 injectors.
No Charge.



I'd certainly kick up of they charged me for 10 injectors on my V8...

I know it's just a mistype.. But I thought it was funny!

FWIW a friend is going through the hoops with a late model Triton, I think at this stage they are even denying it's a Mitsubishi..

Another mate has one, reckons it's brilliant, never had an issue.

Another mate has one, had nothing but issues from new, been back several times for auto problems, still can't be fixed properly, and they don't wanna know about it.

Same car also has rust around the windscreen, dealer says it's someone else's fault for damaging the paint..a mate in the trade said it might have something to do with the ship full of rusty ones that turned up at Port and had to be rust treated before sale.... But it never happened apparently.

Sometimes the attitude of the dealer makes or breaks cars in a specific area or even country.

I was also told dealers for some brands are now charging $180-$190 per HR for labour... That cannot be correct can it?

[Slunnie]

And for those that knock Tojo,a mate has a 2016 LC,bought second hand,not much service paperwork,has done the servicing himself for the last 2 yrs he has had it.
Has 190 000Km on it.

Toyota just replaced the two EGR assemblies,two EGR coolers,two DPF's,and the 10 injectors.
I hear the LC V10 is a collectors item! :lol2:

[PerthDisco]

Just bought an 80 series LC with a 1HZ with 436k kms now that is a sweet million km machine if you don’t mind 50 HP at the wheels lol.

[scarry]

I hear the LC V10 is a collectors item! :lol2:

There are 8 in the engine,and one in each DPF [bighmmm]

Forgot to mention that as it does confuse some[biggrin]

[scarry]

I'd certainly kick up of they charged me for 10 injectors on my V8...

I know it's just a mistype.. But I thought it was funny

I was also told dealers for some brands are now charging $180-$190 per HR for labour... That cannot be correct can it?

No mistype,see my post above.[biggrin]

LR charged me $220/hr in 2012,i hate to think what they charge now.

The local Tojo dealer charges us $160 Hr,which i dont think is too bad,probably something similar to an LR Indie.
Synthetic Castrol DPF engine oil,5W/30 from the local Tojo dealer is cheaper today, than LR charged me for the cheaper non DPF Castrol 5w/30 oil,in 2012.

After those efforts from LR,i didnt go back,except for warranty issues,and there were a few of them.I only had the D4 serviced by them once,because it was in getting warranty work done.

[Slunnie]

There are 8 in the engine,and one in each DPF [bighmmm]

Forgot to mention that as it does confuse some[biggrin]

Back in my box! :lol2:

There you go, is that to burn out the DPF?

180584

[scarry]

Back in my box! :lol2:

There you go, is that to burn out the DPF?

180584

There is always something to learn[biggrin]

Yes,inject fuel, heat it up to burn off.

What happens with these is the injectors get corrosion on them.
Then they overfuel and clog up the DPF's,which then have to be replaced.
The other parts are replaced,different from original, so it doesnt happen again,EGR,coolers,etc,also software upgrade.
I dont know exactly why it happens,some say something to do with moisture when the engine cools off,maybe condensation?

One thing i do know is they downloaded info from the ECU and sent it to the manufacturer before the repairs were authorised.
The ECU records a lot of info about how the vehicle is driven,etc.
If the vehicle had been modded or tuned,they would not have covered the repair.

[Slunnie]

There is always something to learn[biggrin]

Yes,inject fuel, heat it up to burn off.

What happens with these is the injectors get corrosion on them.
Then they overfuel and clog up the DPF's,which then have to be replaced.
The other parts are replaced,different from original, so it doesnt happen again,EGR,coolers,etc,also software upgrade.
I dont know exactly why it happens,some say something to do with moisture when the engine cools off,maybe condensation?

One thing i do know is they downloaded info from the ECU and sent it to the manufacturer before the repairs were authorised.
The ECU records a lot of info about how the vehicle is driven,etc.
If the vehicle had been modded or tuned,they would not have covered the repair.
Thats a really interesting system in doing all of that. I hadnt heard of it. I don't think my Audi does that when it has a DPF burn off.

Thanks!

[RANDLOVER]

Maybe LR should take note of Mazdas customer service.

My brother has a 2013 Mazda 6 diesel - he bought it a couple of years ago with 50,000km and it now has 210,000km. Not sure of the exact details but these engines pump raw fuel into the DPF to burn of the carbon etc but the engine has a design fault and the fuel can sometimes find its way into the sump - the car has a sensor to pick this up. Anyway the car was being driven to work and the engine failed due to poor lubrication caused by fuel dilution of the oil - the sensor had failed.

Car is now in with Mazda getting a new engine $10K-$15K - no cost to my brother - as I said this is on a car with 210,000km and was bought as a second hand vehicle.

A pity LR did not have the same customer service ethic.

Garry

While LR don't seem to have the same customer service ethic, some of their engines do have the same sort of fault....Early Service/Oil Dilution - JLRP00100 | Evoque Owners Club (https://www.evoqueownersclub.co.uk/threads/early-service-oil-dilution-jlrp00100.12255/)

I believe if the oil dilution problem goes unnoticed it leads to premature camshaft wear.

[discorevy]

While LR don't seem to have the same customer service ethic, some of their engines do have the same sort of fault....Early Service/Oil Dilution - JLRP00100 | Evoque Owners Club (https://www.evoqueownersclub.co.uk/threads/early-service-oil-dilution-jlrp00100.12255/)

I believe if the oil dilution problem goes unnoticed it leads to premature camshaft wear.

Yep, diesel doesn't do that good a job in an oil sump

Was speaking with Ryan from Turbo Technics UK recently (produce remanufactured turbos for JLR, among other things) on another matter who was saying they were almost out of core for the ingenium engines due to ridiculous amounts of fuel dilution failures.

[scarry]

Thats a really interesting system in doing all of that. I hadnt heard of it. I don't think my Audi does that when it has a DPF burn off.

Thanks!

Many European vehicles use a different system,but can lead to oil dilution.

I cant remember exactly how it works,google wil probably help[biggrin]

[DiscoJeffster]

Many European vehicles use a different system,but can lead to oil dilution.

I cant remember exactly how it works,google wil probably help[biggrin]

So the simpler version is to simply pump fuel in late in the cycle so it flows out in the exhaust stroke, flooding the exhaust, increasing exhaust temp and the burn off. This is much like what anti-lag did on turbo cars - pump fuel late in the cycle when you come off throttle and that fuel ignites into the exhaust spooling the turbo and making wonder pop pop sounds.

As you suggest though, this excess fuel that is designed to assist the burn off for the DPF also runs back into the cylinder and then past the rings into the oil. Now we have the issues of fuel dilution.

Toyota’s idea avoids that by providing fuel where needed, but clearly didn’t anticipate the variances of the exhaust environment.

[Discodicky]

I must confess that I'm very bewildered re the comments that the 3.0 litre engine appears to be some sort of pariah when it comes to reconditioning (in most cases after a "crankshaft" failure).

I have no experience whatsoever with this engine apart from servicing mine, however looking at the Parts illustrations and from my general reading of associated literature, it seems to me that it is not a complex nor sophisticated engine by any stretch of one's imagination!

I've successfully rebuilt FORD Cosworth 4 cyl FVA/BDA/BDG engines, 1950's Bentley 6 cylinder engines which are far more complex than the FORD Disco engines, AND ( and this is my main point!) using a local Hobart engine reconditioning business to do such jobs as tunnel boring/checking, cylinder boring etc.

I fail to understand why the 3.0 engine is causing grief to Repairers.
Maybe they are not checking bearing crush which I would imagine is very important in such an engine which doesn't use bearing shell locating tabs?

Why should a Disco engine be such a problem to overhaul?

Considering the original Service Bulletins are only concerning the rotation of the bearing shells causing the oil supply to get blocked, thus in some cases causing the crankshaft to instantly seize then possibly break; surely the replacement of the c/shaft, check tunnel bore, replace bearings etc etc will suffice?

As far as I am aware there has never been any mention by LR of "bad" crankshafts. It has only been surmised and proclaimed by the Forum Experts, not by LR.

My 2013 has just clocked 173,000. In the event I draw the short straw and have an engine failure up to or around 250,000, provide the engine block doesn't get irrepairably damaged I will simply get a new crankshaft from LR, and "do" the bottom end with new pistons/rings. The heads will remain untouched as that part of the engine appears to have a good 'record'.

Or am I missing something? [bigwhistle]

[101RRS]

I fail to understand why the 3.0 engine is causing grief to Repairers.
Or am I missing something? [bigwhistle]

Because most of the genuine parts needed for a rebuild are not available and many of the aftermarket parts are of dubious quality.

If you cannot get the right parts you cannot built a reliable engine.

[loanrangie]

I must confess that I'm very bewildered re the comments that the 3.0 litre engine appears to be some sort of pariah when it comes to reconditioning (in most cases after a "crankshaft" failure).

I have no experience whatsoever with this engine apart from servicing mine, however looking at the Parts illustrations and from my general reading of associated literature, it seems to me that it is not a complex nor sophisticated engine by any stretch of one's imagination!

I've successfully rebuilt FORD Cosworth 4 cyl FVA/BDA/BDG engines, 1950's Bentley 6 cylinder engines which are far more complex than the FORD Disco engines, AND ( and this is my main point!) using a local Hobart engine reconditioning business to do such jobs as tunnel boring/checking, cylinder boring etc.

I fail to understand why the 3.0 engine is causing grief to Repairers.
Maybe they are not checking bearing crush which I would imagine is very important in such an engine which doesn't use bearing shell locating tabs?

Why should a Disco engine be such a problem to overhaul?

Considering the original Service Bulletins are only concerning the rotation of the bearing shells causing the oil supply to get blocked, thus in some cases causing the crankshaft to instantly seize then possibly break; surely the replacement of the c/shaft, check tunnel bore, replace bearings etc etc will suffice?

As far as I am aware there has never been any mention by LR of "bad" crankshafts. It has only been surmised and proclaimed by the Forum Experts, not by LR.

My 2013 has just clocked 173,000. In the event I draw the short straw and have an engine failure up to or around 250,000, provide the engine block doesn't get irrepairably damaged I will simply get a new crankshaft from LR, and "do" the bottom end with new pistons/rings. The heads will remain untouched as that part of the engine appears to have a good 'record'.

Or am I missing something? [bigwhistle]I agree but just looking here and in the UK there are very few successful rebuilds done, parts seem to be available so not sure what's going on.

[NavyDiver]

I must confess that I'm very bewildered re the comments that the 3.0 litre engine appears to be some sort of pariah when it comes to reconditioning (in most cases after a "crankshaft" failure).

I have no experience whatsoever with this engine apart from servicing mine, however looking at the Parts illustrations and from my general reading of associated literature, it seems to me that it is not a complex nor sophisticated engine by any stretch of one's imagination!

I've successfully rebuilt FORD Cosworth 4 cyl FVA/BDA/BDG engines, 1950's Bentley 6 cylinder engines which are far more complex than the FORD Disco engines, AND ( and this is my main point!) using a local Hobart engine reconditioning business to do such jobs as tunnel boring/checking, cylinder boring etc.

I fail to understand why the 3.0 engine is causing grief to Repairers.
Maybe they are not checking bearing crush which I would imagine is very important in such an engine which doesn't use bearing shell locating tabs?

Why should a Disco engine be such a problem to overhaul?

Considering the original Service Bulletins are only concerning the rotation of the bearing shells causing the oil supply to get blocked, thus in some cases causing the crankshaft to instantly seize then possibly break; surely the replacement of the c/shaft, check tunnel bore, replace bearings etc etc will suffice?

As far as I am aware there has never been any mention by LR of "bad" crankshafts. It has only been surmised and proclaimed by the Forum Experts, not by LR.

My 2013 has just clocked 173,000. In the event I draw the short straw and have an engine failure up to or around 250,000, provide the engine block doesn't get irrepairably damaged I will simply get a new crankshaft from LR, and "do" the bottom end with new pistons/rings. The heads will remain untouched as that part of the engine appears to have a good 'record'.

Or am I missing something? [bigwhistle]

That crossed my mind when my top end failed in my replacement D3. Had I the time I would have like to keep the engine and try. I didn't.wonder if you might like to call and see if GW have D4 engines now? New & Reconditioned Engines Melbourne | Grant Walker Parts (https://grantwalker.com.au/engines/)

It still suggests D3 only.

This site mentions D4! Jeep/Land Rover Used & Reconditioned engines, Gearboxes & Transmissions (https://www.enginesplus.com.au/jeepland-rover/)

[ozscott]

I must confess that I'm very bewildered re the comments that the 3.0 litre engine appears to be some sort of pariah when it comes to reconditioning (in most cases after a "crankshaft" failure).

I have no experience whatsoever with this engine apart from servicing mine, however looking at the Parts illustrations and from my general reading of associated literature, it seems to me that it is not a complex nor sophisticated engine by any stretch of one's imagination!

I've successfully rebuilt FORD Cosworth 4 cyl FVA/BDA/BDG engines, 1950's Bentley 6 cylinder engines which are far more complex than the FORD Disco engines, AND ( and this is my main point!) using a local Hobart engine reconditioning business to do such jobs as tunnel boring/checking, cylinder boring etc.

I fail to understand why the 3.0 engine is causing grief to Repairers.
Maybe they are not checking bearing crush which I would imagine is very important in such an engine which doesn't use bearing shell locating tabs?

Why should a Disco engine be such a problem to overhaul?

Considering the original Service Bulletins are only concerning the rotation of the bearing shells causing the oil supply to get blocked, thus in some cases causing the crankshaft to instantly seize then possibly break; surely the replacement of the c/shaft, check tunnel bore, replace bearings etc etc will suffice?

As far as I am aware there has never been any mention by LR of "bad" crankshafts. It has only been surmised and proclaimed by the Forum Experts, not by LR.

My 2013 has just clocked 173,000. In the event I draw the short straw and have an engine failure up to or around 250,000, provide the engine block doesn't get irrepairably damaged I will simply get a new crankshaft from LR, and "do" the bottom end with new pistons/rings. The heads will remain untouched as that part of the engine appears to have a good 'record'.

Or am I missing something? [bigwhistle]Seems like a lot have tried. I wish you well when you do yours and if you succeed a full tutorial with pictures would be very helpful. Cheers [emoji106]

[kelvo]

As far as I am aware there has never been any mention by LR of "bad" crankshafts. It has only been surmised and proclaimed by the Forum Experts, not by LR.


Because if LR admit to a problem with the crankshafts they have just opened themselves up to all the claims for repair of the ‘faulty’ engines.

[DiscoJeffster]

Because if LR admit to a problem with the crankshafts they have just opened themselves up to all the claims for repair of the ‘faulty’ engines.

It doesn’t matter what the reason for the engine failure. It’s still a faulty engine if it dies at an unreasonable age. That’s the key - LR feels their cars are end of life once the warranty ends.

[Discodicky]

Because if LR admit to a problem with the crankshafts they have just opened themselves up to all the claims for repair of the ‘faulty’ engines.

That's the annoying thing.
Via the two Service Bulletins that have been issued by them, LR has in fact freely admitted a problem with c/shaft bearing assembly during engine manufacture, thus regardless of any so called perceived crankshaft problem by Forum people, they have still theoretically shot themselves in the foot anyway.

That's why I don't understand as to why owners have not pursued their failures with more vigour against LRA than appears to be the case. Particularly engines with low klms under say 150,000.

BTW, I went to the Hobart dealership today and established that Genuine LR parts (brgs, crankshaft etc) are available.
I wonder if the parts from the "Indie" places where many of us purchase our parts are in fact Genuine?
Are they inferior willfit parts which don't cut the mustard for a successful rebuild?
Is this a reason why there have been apparent failures following rebuilds?

Food for thought.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I must confess that I'm very bewildered re the comments that the 3.0 litre engine appears to be some sort of pariah when it comes to reconditioning (in most cases after a "crankshaft" failure).

I have no experience whatsoever with this engine apart from servicing mine, however looking at the Parts illustrations and from my general reading of associated literature, it seems to me that it is not a complex nor sophisticated engine by any stretch of one's imagination!

I've successfully rebuilt FORD Cosworth 4 cyl FVA/BDA/BDG engines, 1950's Bentley 6 cylinder engines which are far more complex than the FORD Disco engines, AND ( and this is my main point!) using a local Hobart engine reconditioning business to do such jobs as tunnel boring/checking, cylinder boring etc.

I fail to understand why the 3.0 engine is causing grief to Repairers.
Maybe they are not checking bearing crush which I would imagine is very important in such an engine which doesn't use bearing shell locating tabs?

Why should a Disco engine be such a problem to overhaul?

Considering the original Service Bulletins are only concerning the rotation of the bearing shells causing the oil supply to get blocked, thus in some cases causing the crankshaft to instantly seize then possibly break; surely the replacement of the c/shaft, check tunnel bore, replace bearings etc etc will suffice?

As far as I am aware there has never been any mention by LR of "bad" crankshafts. It has only been surmised and proclaimed by the Forum Experts, not by LR.

My 2013 has just clocked 173,000. In the event I draw the short straw and have an engine failure up to or around 250,000, provide the engine block doesn't get irrepairably damaged I will simply get a new crankshaft from LR, and "do" the bottom end with new pistons/rings. The heads will remain untouched as that part of the engine appears to have a good 'record'.

Or am I missing something? [bigwhistle]
Fully agree, at the end of the day it's just another ICE. They can be rebuilt, and if you know what you are doing, should not be any different than any other engine rebuild. Do your homework and source genuine or parts from reputable aftermarket vendors and / or go to a reliable engine rebuilder.

Dropping in a replacement secondary engine is just a stop gap as you don't know the service history of that unit at all. A new engine drop in would be great but is cost prohibitive and it appears that supply is limited /nil. Rebuilding with what you have means (apart from replacing the broken bits), you have everything else.

[scarry]

Yes there are failures, but the actual failure rate looking at the global population of those engines is something like 0.01%..

Cant see how that figure is anywhere close to the mark,for Aus anyway,and i doubt more would fail in Aus than anywhere else?

[BradC]

Cant see how that figure is anywhere close to the mark,for Aus anyway,and i doubt more would fail in Aus than anywhere else?

Best estimates I was able to find in estimated sales figures was about ~3000 Discos a year sold. So let's say 2005-2016 at 3k per year is 33,000 D3 & D4 combined. 0.01% of that is 3.3. Even one failure a year is ~0.03% and I've certainly heard of more than one a year.

Still 68.75% of statistics are made up anyway.

Stats are stats but at the end of the day it'll either break or it won't. Every time I get in the car and turn the key I ask myself "will it get me home or will it lunch a second engine"?

[ozscott]

Best estimates I was able to find in estimated sales figures was about ~3000 Discos a year sold. So let's say 2005-2016 at 3k per year is 33,000 D3 & D4 combined. 0.01% of that is 3.3. Even one failure a year is ~0.03% and I've certainly heard of more than one a year.

Still 68.75% of statistics are made up anyway.

Stats are stats but at the end of the day it'll either break or it won't. Every time I get in the car and turn the key I ask myself "will it get me home or will it lunch a second engine"?And mate that last point is the biggie for an owner. If you are someone who couldn't care less and doesn't have the thought more power too you but I am like you and would have such thought. Not that i am a huge fan on the 'new' shape Discos anyway but would still probably have gone to one were it not for the issues with the diesel. Cheers

[DiscoJeffster]

Best estimates I was able to find in estimated sales figures was about ~3000 Discos a year sold. So let's say 2005-2016 at 3k per year is 33,000 D3 & D4 combined. 0.01% of that is 3.3. Even one failure a year is ~0.03% and I've certainly heard of more than one a year.

Still 68.75% of statistics are made up anyway.

Stats are stats but at the end of the day it'll either break or it won't. Every time I get in the car and turn the key I ask myself "will it get me home or will it lunch a second engine"?

• Land Rover global sales by model 2013-2019 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/387780/land-rover-global-sales-by-model/)

X 10
But hard to break out diesels

[BradC]

• Land Rover global sales by model 2013-2019 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/387780/land-rover-global-sales-by-model/)

X 10
But hard to break out diesels

I can’t get that site to make any sense on my iPad, but are you telling me land rover sold 30,000 discos a year in Australia? I find that hard to believe.

[DiscoJeffster]

I can’t get that site to make any sense on my iPad, but are you telling me land rover sold 30,000 discos a year in Australia? I find that hard to believe.

No. I think it’s world wide and would include all variants

[scarry]

Best estimates I was able to find in estimated sales figures was about ~3000 Discos a year sold. So let's say 2005-2016 at 3k per year is 33,000 D3 & D4 combined. 0.01% of that is 3.3. Even one failure a year is ~0.03% and I've certainly heard of more than one a year.

Still 68.75% of statistics are made up anyway.

Stats are stats but at the end of the day it'll either break or it won't. Every time I get in the car and turn the key I ask myself "will it get me home or will it lunch a second engine"?

The two local Indies around here are doing them all the time,but hard to know exact numbers,i recon at least 1%,which is what most Indies say as well.
Then there are the failures under warranty.

D4 sold at around 2000 per year,it's last year being the highest amount which was around 2400.Includes 2.7L,early on,but not many of them sold.

[PhilipA]

Just for info , in discussion with Rick's ( Gold Coast Specialist) wife Debbie I asked how many D4 engines they had replaced. She said 5. Now I would doubt that they would have over 100 D4s on their books so that implies maybe 5% or even more which is to me scary.
Asked about inlet manifolds, she said "HEAPS"
Regards PhilipA

[scarry]

Just for info , in discussion with Rick's ( Gold Coast Specialist) wife Debbie I asked how many D4 engines they had replaced. She said 5. Now I would doubt that they would have over 100 D4s on their books so that implies maybe 5% or even more which is to me scary.
Asked about inlet manifolds, she said "HEAPS"
Regards PhilipA

Thats probably closer to the mark.

There was a tech(could be on here i dunno) at MR Auto,who left and worked at LR head office for a while in the warranty section,then returned to MR.
This was probably around 5 or 6 yrs ago.
He told me he was amazed at the huge number of engine failures coming through under warranty.

[ATH]

But what to replace the D4 with? A question facing many worried owners I suspect. New Defender? Not for me or the wife, awful looking thing and possible a dubious engine in that as well. D5 the same.
New Prado or Everest? Who knows. I'm looking that's all I can say but whether I actually do anything ..... :)
AlanH.

[discomatt69]

Yep the big question, what do I replace a D4 with?
i am currently one month into a 3 month trip towing 2.5 ton van with the car fully loaded
it sits perfectly flat on the road, not like 90 % of the tow cars that have the front 3 inches to high and the back 3 inches to low , I get perfect comfort, effortless towing, quiet in the car a great sound system and about 4 l / 100km better economy than the cruiser we are travelling with.
All that in a standard 4wd without a single mod, not like most that get new suspension every 60,000km aftermarket stereo added sound proofing, new seats and a brake upgrade.
The crank issue is a concern but it’s either that of drive a car that in every other respect is nowhere near as good
So what do I replace it with?
before you bought this car I considered a 79 with h about 60k worth of mods but it hen I drove a couple, no thanks

[ozscott]

I suppose it depends entirely on priorities and appetite for pain when it goes wrong versus pain in another vehicle in terms of not towing quite a nicely. Cheers

[scarry]

before you bought this car I considered a 79 with h about 60k worth of mods but it hen I drove a couple, no thanks

There would not be many that go from the comfort of a D4 to a 79,no matter how well the 79 is supposedly set up....

We had to make the big decision almost two years ago and don't regret moving on at all.It actually took us 12 months to make the decision.If LR still made the D4 we would have bought one,but the D5 didn't interest us,nor did the Defender for a good few reasons.RRS was too small.

We dont tow,but do a lot of touring,often remote,generally use a RTT or the Tent,or on occasions, accomodation.

There is probably not much else that rides as well as an LR product,but some of the others are just as good,if not better in other areas,depending on what one wants to believe,and what ones needs are.Having a good amount of room combined with a tailgate setup is also great for travelling.

[ATH]

I really like the drive and comfort of a D4 and don't mind spending money to keep it well serviced (every 10K max) etc. It gets more love lavished on it than any other family member. I don't personally know anyone who has had a catastrophic incident with one but I'm unhappy at the thought of it happening and being left with a completely unfixable vehicle worth nothing.
The Cooks not much help either and is leaving the decision to me...... but no doubt will have plenty to say if I buy something she doesn't like as much. :)
Maybe I'll flog it, maybe I won't.
AlanH.

[Melbourne Park]

The two local Indies around here are doing them all the time,but hard to know exact numbers,i recon at least 1%,which is what most Indies say as well.
Then there are the failures under warranty.

D4 sold at around 2000 per year,it's last year being the highest amount which was around 2400.Includes 2.7L,early on,but not many of them sold.

Of course the Ford Territory SUV also had the 2.7 for a number of years too.

On replacing the motor, I read someone in the UK who bought for his Range Rover 3 litre, a crate Ford engine for $US6,000. I guess landed after GST and transport maybe $Au12,000. But I wonder what Ford sells one for here as they are recently supplying the engine.

But the chap said on the internet that the engine mounts wouldn't fit and he couldn't get an Indi to make the appropriate engine mount brackets. But if someone did, it sounds like a solution.

Also a more recent Lion - 2017 ? I am not sure - had the revised increased oil feed for the centre bearing of the crankshaft. Some say if its rattling on start up, be careful. Idle you engine for several minutes, then increase the revs to 1500 RPM for 30 seconds. That ensure the oil pressure is higher and would feed the crankshaft. The rattling evidently goes away. So far mine doesn't rattle ... but I worry about going around Australia towing 2.5 tonne.

The issue if one breaks down in the Pilbara or anywhere remote in W.A. the vehicle has to be towed out, then repaired in somewhere like Darwin or Perth. And what happens about the caravan? One might have to them buy a tow vehicle in Broome or fly out and pick up a replacement vehicle? I hate worse case scenarios but am concerned about it.

[PerthDisco]

Of course the Ford Territory SUV also had the 2.7 for a number of years too.

On replacing the motor, I read someone in the UK who bought for his Range Rover 3 litre, a crate Ford engine for $US6,000. I guess landed after GST and transport maybe $Au12,000. But I wonder what Ford sells one for here as they are recently supplying the engine.

But the chap said on the internet that the engine mounts wouldn't fit and he couldn't get an Indi to make the appropriate engine mount brackets. But if someone did, it sounds like a solution.

Also a more recent Lion - 2017 ? I am not sure - had the revised increased oil feed for the centre bearing of the crankshaft. Some say if its rattling on start up, be careful. Idle you engine for several minutes, then increase the revs to 1500 RPM for 30 seconds. That ensure the oil pressure is higher and would feed the crankshaft. The rattling evidently goes away. So far mine doesn't rattle ... but I worry about going around Australia towing 2.5 tonne.

The issue if one breaks down in the Pilbara or anywhere remote in W.A. the vehicle has to be towed out, then repaired in somewhere like Darwin or Perth. And what happens about the caravan? One might have to them buy a tow vehicle in Broome or fly out and pick up a replacement vehicle? I hate worse case scenarios but am concerned about it.

The (top end) rattling on startup is quite a normal noise and is removed a lot when you go to 5-40 oil.

[chuck]

There is a specialist mob that reconditions/rebuilds these motors see link below;

Land Rover Engine Specialist | Jaguar Engine Specialist (https://automotiveskills.net.au/jaguar-engine-land-rover-engine/)

I have no connection to them, but at one stage did enquire as there was a very nice D4 with rare colour i liked that had a blown engine.

Their quote was approximately $24k tow in drive out & they claim to fit 2nd generation crank

Long storey short the car was sold before i could confirm research etc - if it was not sold probably would have gone ahead with it.

They seem to specialise in all Landrover / Jaguar motors and provide a reasonable warranty.

Given the price of new large 4 x 4', if the rebuilt engine was good & the car with the damaged motor was good, would not be a bad solution to terrible situation.

[Melbourne Park]

The (top end) rattling on startup is quite a normal noise and is removed a lot when you go to 5-40 oil.

LR time reckoned it's worthwhile to warm it up(but they are in Germany) and increased the revs. And they have said 5-40 ...

As far as crank failures go, according to LR time, the crank fails for 3 main reasons (besides the design): a complex issue: not railer pulling; not really driving behaviour (that does effect bearing failure). It's the material quality itself - an out of spec piece of steel, the forging process itself and the hardening process. So the hardening process for instance requires a good induction hardening control quality control. So material, the forge or the hardening process.

The reason being that some crankshafts last for half a million KM. Others have failed early on. This one failed at 60,000 or so KM.

16:40 on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpUZoD5_Kjs

He has spoken about the same issues several times, saying if its Monday and some fellow's football team went bad, quality could drop in Dagenhiem. The video about that crank failure says the crank was "made" on Tuesday 16th of February 2016 at around 6:40 pm. I don't know the time interval though between getting the metal forged and finally stamping it. We can presume from evidence that the English processes that make those cranks are not as good as they should be.

Also the parts pricing for the crank and some bolts and a connecting rod and a few other things he said was 3,000 Euro, or $Au 5,000 (plus extra shipping costs to Australia) and that video was one year old.

Land Rover repair cost? 28,000 Euro (over $Au46,000).

[Graeme]

Get a hot idle pressure test done if concerned about the condition of the bearings, or better still, permanently fit a good digital gauge. Whist the WSM is rather general with the TDV6/SDV6 oil pressure specs, the TDV8 WSM is very specfic with 12 psi idle with the oil at least 65 degC for an almost identically designed engine apart from 8 cylinders vs 6 cylinders and their crankshafts. They even use the same man and big-end bearings excepting for the rear mains with their different thrust bearing profiles.

If the hot idle pressure is below spec then have the sump dropped and a complete set of good brand main and big-end bearngs fitted.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Not completely following the timeline of this thread, somehow seems to have jumped from Sept 2022 to Dec 2024.

I for one have had 2 catastrophic engine failures, the first at 28K replaced under warranty without any failure report from LRA, in fact my dealer was instructed by LRA not to examine the engine, merely to remove and replace the engine with a long crate motor.

The second failure happened around 200K (172K after original replacement) I looked around for my options, a new engine from LRA would cost me around 50K fitted at my dealer (one specialist LR repairer refused to fit a new or replacement engine because of litigation by a previous customer), given that my first engine failure happened at such low KM I was reluctant to go second hand although I could get one from All Four x 4 for around $18K with 85K on the clock plus fitting. I decided to go with a re-manufactured engine from Automotive Skills, and although there was a couple of issues with the installation, e.g. washer hoses swapped about (wipe front screen wash rear) all were rectified without issue.

All in all, while I love the D4, the engine reliability is a constant concern particularly for long trips.

According to YouTube, the LION engines are considered one of the least reliable engines on the planet Ford has discontinued fitting the 3.0l to F150 pickups and even while essentially the same block there are many differences like the single variable vane turbo on the F150 against the twin turbos on the JLR products.

[Graeme]

Ford are still fitting the F150 engine to the Ranger.

[sharmy]

I gather no one has taken the plunge on an Aliexpress one yet

[Slunnie]

before you bought this car I considered a 79 with h about 60k worth of mods but it hen I drove a couple, no thanks

I did almost the same several years ago. I questioned what to update the Disco2 with. Went and had a look at the 76 as that was about the only thing comparable. I didn't pursuit it beyond sitting in it and learning about "quasi" climate control via a thermostat. It was a ridiculously basic vehicle and even more so for the price - it was not in the slightest comparable. I've driven quite a few 79's with work, and to me at least they feel and drive like a vehicle designed and built in 1980. I still really love driving the Disco2 on long trips and locally, so it keeps on keeping on! :twobeers:

[TonyC]

I did almost the same several years ago. I questioned what to update the Disco2 with. Went and had a look at the 76 as that was about the only thing comparable. I didn't pursuit it beyond sitting in it and learning about "quasi" climate control via a thermostat. It was a ridiculously basic vehicle and even more so for the price - it was not in the slightest comparable. I've driven quite a few 79's with work, and to me at least they feel and drive like a vehicle designed and built in 1980. I still really love driving the Disco2 on long trips and locally, so it keeps on keeping on! :twobeers:

Well the 70 series did debut in 1984

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I gather no one has taken the plunge on an Aliexpress one yet

Has anyone heard any reports of Aliexpress engines???? Understanding they're Chinese but lots of differences in quality with Chinese items.

I don't currently have an issue with my SDV6 3.0, but planning options for future.

In another thread I note suggestions for using 2.7 block with 3.0 ancillaries, so am considering acquiring an appropriate spare an having it ready for the inevitable.

Thoughts?

[Melbourne Park]

Has anyone heard any reports of Aliexpress engines???? Understanding they're Chinese but lots of differences in quality with Chinese items.

I don't currently have an issue with my SDV6 3.0, but planning options for future.

In another thread I note suggestions for using 2.7 block with 3.0 ancillaries, so am considering acquiring an appropriate spare an having it ready for the inevitable.

Thoughts?

Evidently my D4 is said to be excellent. Service always have said so, which bewilders me as I don't think it's a usual thing to say. And my motor is quiet on start up too. But I do warm it up for a bit and also gently increase the revs after two minute to ensure engine oil pressure.

But my - since new - occasional low power mode while towing eventually did not easily go away ( I would stop and turn the motor off and then restart and then everything was fine) I got an experience of what could happen stuck somewhere remote in Western Australia. So now I have had the turbo actuator replace, due to finding out what was going on. Evidently it's not unusual.

Its the third issue I have had, which are:

1 - drivers door rubber holed at 18 months old. Dealer refused to replace. It's still there with its holes, as a reminder of that dealer's service.

2 - Thought the levelling had failed. I had dropped the D4 to attach my caravan, and using LLAMS had dropped it to its very bottom mode along with the low on the LR's standard 3 height option. I then lowered the van's maybe 280 kg tow ball (van weighs up to 2450 kg) and then went and started the car, after some maybe 15 minutes with the car switched off. Due to talking! The car would not rise. I was at the caravan manufacture's site, and they reported it looked like the height actuators. So I parked the car and rang for a tow. I left the caravan at the manufacturers. I rang RovaRange who service my Disco, and Jason told me where to go. I rang them and they said drop it around in the morning (it was around 4 pm in Caloundra and they were maybe 40 minutes away). But then I started the car and up she went. I took it to the recommended Indy LR specialist, and they said she's fine, and don't change the height actuators as it's a waste of money. They spent some time checking it and wouldn't charge me any money. I didn't even have a bottle of scotch to leave on their front desk. Advise - don't be a smart ass with lowering all the way and expecting the vehicle to lift with 280 kg on the tow ball!

3 - The intermittent low power mode. Even my Indy could not find that issue. I've always been to mean to buy an IID tool, and I now realise if I had of had it, I may have been able to get the issue fixed on warranty. Although I suspect not as due to the door rubber, I was not at all impressed by dealer service attitudes. But also I think my local Toyota and Lexus dealer is far worse - they are crooked IMO.

So ... since I had an on road issue, I got a scare, in NSW along the coast, where the population is dense and land rovers are around. So I am wondering too because I want to do a circuit of Australia towing my off road 2.5 tonne caravan:

- Sell my car and buy a replacement
- Buy a car, do the tour, and keep the Disco. Then sell the replacement.
- Seek out a spare motor and get it reconditioned in case mine fails

The more I look at it, I really have two options:
- Sell my vehicle and replace it
- Trust in God that everything will go just fine.

Looking back at my life's financial failures, mostly not at all my faults, I cannot be certain that God will protect my D4 motor.

My D4 has done maybe 45000 km towing, and on very good roads too. OK lots of dirt roads but I reckon they've almost all been better than most Victorian country bitumen roads. And I don't use it for shopping trips although some trips have been short. Its got 118,000 km at the moment.

I've driven two test vehicles within two hours of each other with my wife:
Tojo LC 300 ZX and then LR Defender 300
My wife much preferred the LC, which surprised me a lot. I thought she'd love the Defender - it's faster, narrower, more manoeuvrable. But ... the 300 I drove seemed to handle better, it road better, it was quieter, there was no wheel on the rear door, it had more interior space, a more luxo feel, (my wife is used to her Lexus though) its devaluation would be less and its more repairable in the outback. Plus it has an extra 50 litres of fuel which can also be easily increased. But I doubt I would buy that LC 300 model but its adjustable shockers and driving modes were really good fun. Not self levelling though and every one would require air bags inside the springs for towing.

I haven't even driven the Everest because although they cost under $90k, I get upset by their motor somewhat. And also Ford's quality and bugs and their service backup make me nervous. While an LR Indy is often wonderful, finding a Ford one with the same commitment would be impossible IMO.

If I buy new there is the issue of needing a deposit soon or the vehicle will be delivered too late - or I return with the Disco when its available, and then I'll have the hassle of selling the Disco with probably a different brand of new vehicle in the garage which is hardly a recommendation.

And does one warn someone about the motor's potential? The reason I bought the Disco was because I could sell it after telling the new owned that the max I ever towed was 2,400kg. I didn't want to sell my Prado Kakadu that way.

It's a toss up at the moment between selling mine and getting something new, and trusting in God.


The thing that really bemuses me, is that if LR stood by its breakdowns, they would have reasonable stocks of short crate motors at reasonable prices. And if they did that, the value of our vehicles would be much higher. Because if I sell now, I'll get some money back. But if I gamble and loose, I'll loose the lot. Which is why the vehicles are so cheap. And being cheap means severe depreciation. Which results in a major loss of customer loyalty. It's crazy of LR not to support their customers. But the V6 situation shows that not only are they stupid, that they do not support their customers, and worse, they do not care. Which is a major reason why I may not get an LR to replace mine.