Whoops

[BradC]

Talawana Track horror: Couple's 4WD bursts into flames | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11172125/Talawana-Track-horror-Couples-4WD-bursts-flames.html)

I sat next to a paramedic in the "bar" at Newman airport on Wednesday and we got talking. Her parents had just escaped from an incident and she showed me the photos. Come today they turn up in the Daily Fail.

I notice they don't mention the make or model of the vehicle in the article.

Chalk one up for the sat phone.

[p38arover]

Lucky! What sort of vehicle - noting the doors have gone. Aluminium? Land Rover?

Not much left of the old Series Landie in those photos, either.

[BradC]

Lucky! What sort of vehicle - noting the doors have gone. Aluminium? Land Rover?

Not much left of the old Series Landie in those photos, either.

I was told it was a brand new 300 series.

[V8Ian]

Looks Cruiserish to me.
Ron, that's not a series, it's a Stage 1 or Defender.

[BradC]

Looks Cruiserish to me.

I can't tell. Looks about one long range fuel tank away from being an ingot.

[p38arover]

Looks Cruiserish to me.
Ron, that's not a series, it's a Stage 1 or Defender.

Not Defender, look at the windscreen - it's a 2-piece. A Stage 1 is a Series III but with the V8 or 4BD1.

[V8Ian]

Grill flush with the front of the wings, still has opening vents below the windscreen.
I think that makes it a Stage 1, either 3.5 V8 petrol or 3.9 Isuzu diesel.

[V8Ian]

I tried to post the picture. There's an hour I'll never get back.[bigsad]

[p38arover]

I tried to post the picture. There's an hour I'll never get back.[bigsad]

180685

Yep, flush front panel - probably Stage 1.

[V8Ian]

Did you change the picture format, Ron? How jolly clever. [smilebigeye]

[V8Ian]

Is a Stage 1 a Series lll? I thought it was an interim model, post Series but pre Defender. Does it have coil or leaf springs?

[Arapiles]

Lucky! What sort of vehicle - noting the doors have gone. Aluminium? Land Rover?


That looks like an LC300.

Edit: Channel 7 says that it was a brand new LC.

Talawana Track: Couple’s near death experience as car bursts into flames in isolated outback adventure | 7NEWS (https://7news.com.au/news/disaster-and-emergency/couples-near-death-experience-as-new-4wd-bursts-into-flames-in-isolated-outback-ordeal-c-8096975)

Turns out that most of the LC300's exterior panels are aluminium, other than the rear 3/4 panels which are steel - and which you can see didn't melt.

Why 2022 Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series buyers might pay higher insurance premiums to cover the costly repairs of damaged aluminium alloy body panels - Car News | CarsGuide (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/why-2022-toyota-landcruiser-300-series-buyers-might-pay-higher-insurance-premiums-to-cover)

Edit:

Bull bar survived, so probably steel.

Emphasises why you need to keep a bag of essentials somewhere that you can grab. Wonder if they had a fire extinguisher?

Edit: they had time to grab quite a lot of stuff out of their car - but I'd guess that they didn't have a fire extinguisher.

[101RRS]

Is a Stage 1 a Series lll? I thought it was an interim model, post Series but pre Defender. Does it have coil or leaf springs?

It is a Series 111 Stage 1 - has leaf springs.

[trout1105]

So just how does a brand new 4WD spontaneously ignite??

[ozscott]

So just how does a brand new 4WD spontaneously ignite??Perhaps grass caught up around the DPF? Or something not going well with accessory wiring. Or just plain old manufacturing defect. Cheers

[scarry]

So just how does a brand new 4WD spontaneously ignite??

Often its modifications to the vehicle.

A mate is an auto leckie,he was saying he cant understand why there are not more vehicle and van fires,considering the number of dodgie jobs he sees all day.

[p38arover]

Did you change the picture format, Ron? How jolly clever. [smilebigeye]

No, I used the Windows Snipping Tool to select a portion of the image and saved that. I then uploaded that.

[goingbush]

So just how does a brand new 4WD spontaneously ignite??


DPF fire . No doubt whatsoever .

My 2013 Iveco 4x4 Drivers Handbook specifically says , "never drive through or park over dry grass or leaves due to danger of DPF fire" that's not the exact quote but to that effect . So what's the point of a 4x4 then ?? And a Iveco DPF is a good 300mm higher off ground than Toyota.

QAS was trialling an Iveco waiting for RFD flight when it set fire to the surrounding area .

I subsequently removed my DPF . EPA says its illegal to modify emissions equipment 'without due cause' . Well that in my opinion is 'due cause' .

[Graeme]

I declined my 1st D4 order because it had been fitted with a DPF as a 1st day window vehicle even though the order was deliberately placed after the window closed so as to avoid the DPF.

[Arapiles]

In one of the TV interviews the owner says that a warning light came on and they got out and saw a fire under the car - you'd think that the fire would be caused by grass around the exhaust or DPF but would that trigger a warning light?

Edit: "really well prepared" ..... except it appears that they didn't have a fire extinguisher.

[BradC]

Edit: "really well prepared" ..... except it appears that they didn't have a fire extinguisher.

Every firey I've spoken to has said that with the rarest exception the best thing to do with a fire extinguisher in a car is to throw it at the fire as you are running away. Your chance of putting out a fire with your standard 1 or 2kg extinguisher is pretty much nil unless you happen to be there and catch the ignition.

Luckily I have zero personal experience with that one. Just relaying what I've been told.

[DieselLSE]

Edit: "really well prepared" ..... except it appears that they didn't have a fire extinguisher.
A bit unfair. For a start, we don't know whether they carried an extinguisher or not. Even so, an extinguisher, no matter what size, would have been completely useless. I doubt that even a full fire suppression system would have made much difference. I've successfully used an extinguisher on a slow burn electrical vehicle fire, but this one looks like it was a diesel fire, probably triggered by the DPF igniting a grass tussock or grass caught under the vehicle. In any event, trying to use a fire extinguisher on that could have endangered the user. Bad enough being stranded without being injured as well. I'd say the travellers showed good situational awareness and quick thinking in salvaging what they did, including a fully charged satphone.
Even back in my series days, I was always careful not to park the car with anything within cooee of the exhaust pipe. I'd be scared witless with a DPF in the bush.

[ozscott]

A bit unfair. For a start, we don't know whether they carried an extinguisher or not. Even so, an extinguisher, no matter what size, would have been completely useless. I doubt that even a full fire suppression system would have made much difference. I've successfully used an extinguisher on a slow burn electrical vehicle fire, but this one looks like it was a diesel fire, probably triggered by the DPF igniting a grass tussock or grass caught under the vehicle. In any event, trying to use a fire extinguisher on that could have endangered the user. Bad enough being stranded without being injured as well. I'd say the travellers showed good situational awareness and quick thinking in salvaging what they did, including a fully charged satphone.
Even back in my series days, I was always careful not to park the car with anything within cooee of the exhaust pipe. I'd be scared witless with a DPF in the bush.Unless it's high in the engine bay away from tinder. Mitsubishi manage to do it. Cheers

[scarry]

Every firey I've spoken to has said that with the rarest exception the best thing to do with a fire extinguisher in a car is to throw it at the fire as you are running away. Your chance of putting out a fire with your standard 1 or 2kg extinguisher is pretty much nil unless you happen to be there and catch the ignition.

Luckily I have zero personal experience with that one. Just relaying what I've been told.

One of these maybe a better option.More expensive,but probably worth the money.

Firestryker - New fire extinguisher for Australia from ARB - Pat Callinan's 4X4 Adventures (https://mr4x4.com.au/firestryker-new-fire-extinguisher-for-australia-from-arb/?fbclid=IwAR2EpCcxaKSNtrnzoMnOcbIZNDmZGAiDa6TL7KqJ sBcuMr8Lh4nm8K2EC_M)

Lots of guesses and maybe this and that.Why don't we wait for the facts,it may have nothing to do with a DPF.

[POD]

'One smart decision saved them from perishing to death'. Presumably this person writes for a living.

[p38arover]

'One smart decision saved them from perishing to death'. Presumably this person writes for a living.

I dunno, in video games one can perish and still be alive to play again. [bigwhistle]

[superquag]

I dunno, in video games one can perish and still be alive to play again. [bigwhistle]

Left a daily newspaper years ago.
' They don't make journo's liken they used to...'[biggrin]

[Arapiles]

A bit unfair. For a start, we don't know whether they carried an extinguisher or not. Even so, an extinguisher, no matter what size, would have been completely useless. I doubt that even a full fire suppression system would have made much difference. I've successfully used an extinguisher on a slow burn electrical vehicle fire, but this one looks like it was a diesel fire, probably triggered by the DPF igniting a grass tussock or grass caught under the vehicle. In any event, trying to use a fire extinguisher on that could have endangered the user. Bad enough being stranded without being injured as well. I'd say the travellers showed good situational awareness and quick thinking in salvaging what they did, including a fully charged satphone.
Even back in my series days, I was always careful not to park the car with anything within cooee of the exhaust pipe. I'd be scared witless with a DPF in the bush.


I grew up on a wheat farm, and we were always very aware of not having straw or grass around the exhaust system, or starting paddock fires for that matter - so in my case there's no way that in the same situation I would've allowed grass to build up anywhere near the exhaust system, catalyser or DPF included. I've also seen a HR Holden catch fire under the bonnet - probably a carburettor problem - and the fire extinguisher did work on it. The paint on the bonnet got scorched but there was little other damage. So, I carry fire extinguishers in my cars and whilst they're not going to put out a fire in a car that's fully alight they can deal with something that's just kicking off - at the very least, it'll extend the time that you have to grab stuff - or kids - out of the car. if I was going bush I'd be investing in a couple of the big ones just in case of this scenario.

[Arapiles]

One of these maybe a better option.More expensive,but probably worth the money.

Firestryker - New fire extinguisher for Australia from ARB - Pat Callinan's 4X4 Adventures (https://mr4x4.com.au/firestryker-new-fire-extinguisher-for-australia-from-arb/?fbclid=IwAR2EpCcxaKSNtrnzoMnOcbIZNDmZGAiDa6TL7KqJ sBcuMr8Lh4nm8K2EC_M)

Lots of guesses and maybe this and that.Why don't we wait for the facts,it may have nothing to do with a DPF.


The Firestryker looks like a good option - thanks, I'll look into it.

May not have anything to do with the DPF, but there's a good chance it was grass or something combustable on the exhaust system. Unless there's something at the bottom of a Land Cruiser that's prone to igniting?

[Graeme]

On remote area trips I've carried both a small powder extinguisher and the 10kg water+foam extinguisher that I have for my header, but the firestryker would be far easier to handle.

[350RRC]

Everyone is forgetting that spinifex / car fires, caused by collection around propshafts and friction, have been common for decades.

DL

[trout1105]

It is highly doubtful that the insurance mob will go to the expense of recovering that complete wreck So it is doubtful that we will ever know what caused the infurno
The Good thing is that Nobody got hurt[thumbsupbig]

[350RRC]

It is highly doubtful that the insurance mob will go to the expense of recovering that complete wreck So it is doubtful that we will ever know what caused the infurno
The Good thing is that Nobody got hurt[thumbsupbig]

A vehicle so completely burnt would leave few clues.

Reminds me of Flight 719 in Vietnam, a Huey (in the book 'Chickenhawk') that got shot down and burnt.......... completely..........all the aluminium, bodies, etc.

All the Quartermasters were able to balance their 'books' by saying there was x hundred of this and x hundred of that from their inventories, on that flight.

In a quiet moment someone added up the weight of all the stuff that was supposedly on Flight 719 and it came to 9 times what a Huey could carry. [biggrin][thumbsupbig]

DL

[Tote]

When we did the Hay River track we carried water sprayers in the case of a build up of spinifex grass igniting. Spinifex gum will build up underneath the vehicle and if it catches fire is difficult to put out as it will reignite if hot enough. We didn't have any worries but as stated above has been a problem for many years. I'd wager that was what happened with the mentioned vehicle .

Regards,
Tote

[Tombie]

Fighting a fire on a vehicle is a WOFTAM, best insurance, is insurance.. Get out whilst you can and take what you need.

anything less than a 3-5kg is a total waste if its a reasonable fire. And once you spray that crap around - your vehicle is trashed and will be written off by insurance anyway.


We just had a guy with a very well outfitted 80 series watch it all go up in flames when his winch power feed came loose, got a hot joint and up it went... Hence why the vehicle here have fused winch circuits.

[Tombie]

It is highly doubtful that the insurance mob will go to the expense of recovering that complete wreck So it is doubtful that we will ever know what caused the infurno
The Good thing is that Nobody got hurt[thumbsupbig]

They never examine for cause in these cases unless looking for an out!

[PhilipA]

When many years ago( over55 to be precise) I did a fire training course at Brisbane Airport run by the firies.

It was made clear to the participants that a dry powder extinguisher is a "knock down" fire extinguisher which must completely cover the seat of the fire and then be monitored to control any flare ups. It worked by smothering the fire like I guess a fire blanket. We then practised this theory and hey it was true. It was fun walking towards a big tray burning with petrol with a hose on fan to be able to get close.

The chances of you being able to smother an under bonnet fire are about zilch as there are many nooks and crannies that may be on fire.

The best use may be to knock down an interior ignition to give time to get someone out.

I was subsequently many years ago told the best tool for a spinifix fire is a water squirter bottle and a long bit of wire with a hook on the end and enough street smarts to check every few Ks if on a track with spinifix in the middle..
In the bush its amazing how little water you have to use if you use a squirt bottle to extinguish the camp fire for the night.

Regards PhilipA

[austastar]

Hi,
Yep! A squirt bottle saved my house.
I was removing paint at the top of a gable with a kero burner and was called down for coffee.
The weather boards were old and somewhat rotted on joined surfaces as I found on returning to the job with small flames issuing from said joints.
Decision time!
What was occuring in the roof cavity? There was dust and fiber in there.
Grabbing a ladder and heading for the man hole I took a spray bottle with me and wriggle my way over roof beams to the source of smoke and some small flames.
A fine mist quenched the potential conflagration quick time.
Good thing I didn't try and wrangle a garden hose up there, it could have got going very quickly.
Cheers

[austastar]

... Hence why the vehicle here have fused winch circuits.

Hi,
I'm curious as to what sort of fuse would be used for a winch cable.
Cheers

[scarry]

It is highly doubtful that the insurance mob will go to the expense of recovering that complete wreck So it is doubtful that we will ever know what caused the infurno
The Good thing is that Nobody got hurt[thumbsupbig]

They may not be allowed to leave it where it is.

The manufacturer of the vehicle may want to inspect the wreck if it is recovered,particularly as its a relatively newish model vehicle.

[V8Ian]

I was alerted to black smoke billowing from the engine compartment (rear) of the bus I was driving, but was parked at the time. I raced to the rear with a 5kg dry powder extinguisher.
The bus was towed away and I was given a replacement vehicle.
The following day I was summoned to the workshop. I was asked, where, precisely the fire was. I replied that i didn't know, the entire area was obscured in thick, black smoke, so I sprayed the entire area.
"We noticed." was the exasperated reply. [bigrolf]

[BradC]

Hi,
I'm curious as to what sort of fuse would be used for a winch cable.
Cheers

A big one. On the boat we have a 200A HRC cartridge. Sized to protect the cable, but that’s a relatively small 24V winch.

[350RRC]

When we did the Hay River track we carried water sprayers in the case of a build up of spinifex grass igniting. Spinifex gum will build up underneath the vehicle and if it catches fire is difficult to put out as it will reignite if hot enough. We didn't have any worries but as stated above has been a problem for many years. I'd wager that was what happened with the mentioned vehicle .

Regards,
Tote

I took one of those old brass garden sprayers (with the green wooden handle) on a fish survey in West Vic about 12 years ago, in Feb.

Already knew how good it was dealing with grass type fires...........surprisingly good.

Was mainly for one site where we had to drive a km through dry grass to get the boat to the river. Got lucky with a heavy dew one night so we went for it early and had no probs.

Those things take up next to no space and can be modded to get water out of any type of bottle / jerry / etc.

cheers, DL

[Tombie]

Hi,
I'm curious as to what sort of fuse would be used for a winch cable.
Cheers

400a Class T-fuse. They aren’t cheap, and I carry spares!

[Saitch]

400a Class T-fuse. They aren’t cheap, and I carry spares!

So, Tombie, are you suggesting it would be prudent to get my auto sparky to install a winch fuse in my 'tilly?

[BMKal]

400a Class T-fuse. They aren’t cheap, and I carry spares!

I've seen your tin of spares ........... [bigwhistle]

180748

[scarry]

This is from another site,these people came across the wreck of that LC,that recently burnt.


“Finally Stuart came across the recently burnt out 300 Series that we’d read about in the news a few days before leaving home. As soon as he mentioned where the car was, the signs were evident. At first a few patches of burnt spinifex in between the wheel tracks, becoming more frequent until finally the whole of the track was charred. The vehicle had obviously been on fire for a kilometre or so before the couple driving stopped, escaped with their emergency gear and flames engulfed the car. There was very little of it left at all. The doors and roof were just lumps of molten aluminium. There were a couple of fridge baskets, still with cans of beer inside, along with the usual gas bottles, tent poles and tools scattered around. The couple were commended by emergency services for being properly equipped and doing the right thing (with the possible exception of travelling arguably the most remote track in Australia unaccompanied) - their silver space blanket was still fluttering in a nearby tree. A very sad and scary way for someone’s big adventure to come to an end. “

[ozscott]

I suspect the DPFS are down low. I would be very wary of taking any modern diesel into that country unless the DPF was in the engine bay. Otherwise you would need to be stopping very regularly to clear grasses out. Cheers

[oka374]

Spinifex is very flammable even when green and as has been said once hot enough can reignite. Many years ago on one of our early trips in a 1970 FJ40 Tojo (we had a Landy in the group too) we had several scares when the spinifex built up against the front tailshaft as the belly plate was acting like a scythe. Just the friction of the shaft against the spinifex packed around it would create enough heat for it to ignite. The solution was to remove the belly plate.
Another source of ignition is in some vehicles with overactive traction control in soft sand the brakes can get hot enough to ignite spinifex trapped near them.
DPF's and Catalytic converters are a menace in such country and you need a good source of water and drive with the window down so you can get the first whiff of smoke to avoid the vehicle going up in flames. Garden sprayers are good as the water needs to be usually sprayed upwards under the vehicle and we keep several large PET soft drink bottles full of water handy on the floor. Lids for the bottles with about a 3mm hole in them are kept in the door pocket to be fitted in a time of need. When fitted with the holey lids they can dispense a large amount of water quickly.
When buying garden sprayers spend the money and buy the good ones with metal nozzles and wands, the plastic ones melt!
Never ever stop a vehicle with DPF or cat converter over any sort of grass , they will ignite and burn very quickly, just ask the NSW Highway Patrol how well the diesel BMW's burn ;-))

[scarry]

I suspect the DPFS are down low. I would be very wary of taking any modern diesel into that country unless the DPF was in the engine bay. Otherwise you would need to be stopping very regularly to clear grasses out. Cheers

They are on that model,one large one down low just after where the exhaust headers join,in the middle of the vehicle,so does point to this being the issue.
The last model has two,just before where the headers join, with very solid open guards protecting them,havent seen an issue.

The BT50 work ute we have has a huge plate under the DPF area,which,in my opinion will help grass,and other debris get caught around the DPF,not the greatest idea.
It was added as an afterthought at its first service by the manufacturer.
I must check the Ranger we have as well.

[350RRC]

The BT50 work ute we have has a huge plate under the DPF area,which,in my opinion will help grass,and other debris get caught around the DPF,not the greatest idea.
It was added as an afterthought at its first service by the manufacturer.
I must check the Ranger we have as well.

The plate under the ranger was the same afterthought as the BT back in the day.

DL

[superquag]

I've seen your tin of spares ........... [bigwhistle]

180748

Seriously, the ally foil approach has,,, Potential.... [biggrin] (Sorry, couldn't resist that...)

IF one has suitable ammeter & current source, a tested length/width piece could be good enough to get you out of trouble... Remember the Ancient porcelain household fuses ? - nothing more than tinned Copper wire of various gauge(s) - and perhaps the most expensive way to buy wire... bit like your inkjet ink.

(Back in the day... used to use a couple of strands of mains flex, for bodgy amplifier speaker fuses, when it was 23/.0076"

Now I think the metric version is '0.18 mm ' per strand and fewer of them.)