Discovery 2 transmission remap

[shack]

Hi all fellow Discovery 2 enthusiasts.

I'm very pleased to announce that for some time now I have been running a couple of Discovery 2 TD5 autos with remapped transmission controllers, and I'm really pleased with the outcome!

In the near future these will be available for any Discovery 2 auto including the V8, although I feel the V8 TCU is probably fairly well tuned/matched to the engine.

It's taken quite some time and effort to do... more than I'd like to admit, but it's entirely my own work from start to finish, and I'm really pleased to be able to offer this, as I felt it was always one of the last remaining bug bears of the discovery 2.

Remapping of autos running any low stall speed converter will also be possible, but the gains will not be as noticeable as the stock converter, but most likely still worth it as we can lock the converter at lower speed which will decrease temperature and improve drive, as well as picking shift points.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask here as it will hopefully improve the outcome for everyone.

Cheers
James

[simonmelb]

Sounds interesting James.

With the standard TD5 transmission what have you see as the benefits?

And I assume any noticeable fuel economy gains would be for around town driving?

[shack]

A massive bug bear of mine was always the 80kmh before TCC locked scenario - in 4th that is.

Let's say it's summer, I'm towing a trailer in 4th in an 80 zone, I'd need to exceed the limit to get the converter locked, I'd then need the vehicle to stay pretty close to 80kmh to stay locked, and it probably wouldn't, so I'm left with a slipping converter.

After a few minutes of this style driving, you'd be amazed just how hot the auto fluid is.

Enter the 72 kmh lock ability, car is not flaring and horrible to drive, auto fluid almost immediately drops 20°c, which means not only will the fluid last longer, but the auto most likely will as well.

On the fuel saving front, that's really hard to calculate, I'm gonna guess it won't be as much as you'd like, but the car is that much more driveable you don't care!

Theoretically the TD5 is it's most efficient at about it 2000rpm, so the closer we can stay to that the better, obviously we can't be going in and out of lock 10 times a minute, so we need to compromise on that front.

Other usual features MIGHT be a towing mode which would replace the completely pointless sport mode.

Cheers
James

[SPROVER]

G'day James,

So I have a V8 auto computer from a D2a. Is it a matter of sending it out to you to change or is it like updating a tune via the nanocom?

Cheers
Chris

[thai_tiger]

Hello James,

Just to confirm will it be suitable for a Td5 box std no upgrades at all except EGR delete.

Thx

[V8Ian]

Fellows, please remember AULRO does not permit buying or selling in any section other than the Marketplace.
Discussion on what James' reprogramming will do is fine, but please don't put James in the position of salesman.

[discorevy]

Hi all fellow Discovery 2 enthusiasts.

I'm very pleased to announce that for some time now I have been running a couple of Discovery 2 TD5 autos with remapped transmission controllers, and I'm really pleased with the outcome!

In the near future these will be available for any Discovery 2 auto including the V8, although I feel the V8 TCU is probably fairly well tuned/matched to the engine.

It's taken quite some time and effort to do... more than I'd like to admit, but it's entirely my own work from start to finish, and I'm really pleased to be able to offer this, as I felt it was always one of the last remaining bug bears of the discovery 2.

Remapping of autos running any low stall speed converter will also be possible, but the gains will not be as noticeable as the stock converter, but most likely still worth it as we can lock the converter at lower speed which will decrease temperature and improve drive, as well as picking shift points.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask here as it will hopefully improve the outcome for everyone.

Cheers
James


Really well done James, the time and effort ( as well as brain power) involved in this is substantial.

[shack]

Really well done James, the time and effort ( as well as brain power) involved in this is substantial.Thanks for that!

It has taken all that I had in those 3 categories, although I'm not sure I had much of a couple of them to start with...

[shack]

To the other couple of questions, I'm not sure what stuff is permissable to answer here.

Either way the purpose of this thread was for some info on what can be done on the tech front, and hoping to garner information on what is seen as a weakness with the current setup.

I know what I don't like...

I'd like to know what don't you like..

If anyone wants any further info on procedure etc.. Probably best to PM me at this stage.

Other stuff should be fine here...I hope.

Cheers
James

[shack]

Just to confirm, (hope it's ok) this tuning will work on ANY automatic Discovery 2.

[ozscott]

Will it work with my 5 speed manual [emoji1787]. Seriously though keen to see how you go. Cheers

[RANDLOVER]

Well done Shack. What I didn't like about my TD5 Auto was when I wanted spirited acceleration it would start of well but as I lifted off the throttle a bit, trying to keep it in boost or get it to go up one cog it felt like it'd go up 2 cogs or maybe it went up one and then unlocked the torque converter, I ended up just holding the throttle to the floor so it would know acceleration was required.

[RANDLOVER]

Will it work with my 5 speed manual [emoji1787]. Seriously though keen to see how you go. Cheers

The only thing that is going to work on your 5 spd is to change it to 6 spd. [bigrolf]

[shack]

Will it work with my 5 speed manual [emoji1787]. Seriously though keen to see how you go. CheersUmm no.. but it might pull a bit more like one!

I do like the drive of the 5 speed, you know... Put it in 4th and floor it, and it's not trying to decide which gear to use of the 8 gears it "thought" it had , only to settle on valve bouncing in 3rd unlock, as the guy in the car you thought you were overtaking looks across at you as you fall back behind due to lack of drive firstly, and then shame...

[V8Ian]

To the other couple of questions, I'm not sure what stuff is permissable to answer here.

Either way the purpose of this thread was for some info on what can be done on the tech front, and hoping to garner information on what is seen as a weakness with the current setup.

I know what I don't like...

I'd like to know what don't you like..

If anyone wants any further info on procedure etc.. Probably best to PM me at this stage.

Other stuff should be fine here...I hope.

Cheers
James
Discuss anything about the remap, except how to buy or sell. My warning wasn't meant to stifle discussion on the modification, only the sale of, on this page. [smilebigeye]

[lewy]

Sounds like what a lot of people have long cursed about the 80k's lockup specially those of us who pull a trailer, wonder what the designers had in mind when they decided on the 80km lockup.as someone else asked is it an update via nanacom or send the ecu out.on another thread re v8 tcu into td5 will your remap solve those issues mentioned if i were to send you a v8 tcu for a td5.

[ozscott]

The only thing that is going to work on your 5 spd is to change it to 6 spd. [bigrolf]There's an idea. The 4.6 could comfortably pull a further overdrive gear mmm... Cheers

[AK83]

One question for James:

Do you totally redo the programming in the TCU?

That is, if you reflashed a v8 TCU, can it be used in a TD5 with the same programming as it would be if you flashed a TD5 TCU. Or does each engine type require it's own TCU type?

As an example of why this question is pertinent. Say someone wants to flash their TCU to try it out, but would rather test it first to see how it goes.
Wrecked V8s are far more common than wrecker TD5s, so to get a TCU out of a V8 is trivial, compared to locating one for a TD5.

[shack]

To Lewy and AK83,

I totally re write the mapping on the ECU, I had thought about tuning individual software revisions, and have done a fair bit of work on doing it, but at this stage I'll stay away from that.

I have tested these TCU's:

4.6 NAS
4.0 low comp
TD5 EU2
TD5 EU3

And it would appear that the hardware is compatible, so theoretically any Discovery 2 GS8.87 TCU should be fine, which is great, as some have pointed out, the V8 is easier to source.

But no guaruntee on the ones I haven't tested!

The IC that needs re flashing is OTP - one time programmable, so it can't be done by the nanocom, even if it wasn't OTP it couldn't be anyway for several reasons, one being the nanocom not having the abilities.

[shack]

.on another thread re v8 tcu into td5 will your remap solve those issues mentioned if i were to send you a v8 tcu for a td5.

Yep, should do, it won't have the V8 mapping on it any more.

[onebob]

This mod will be good for those of us running taller tyres - I’d be happy to 80kmh lock up again vs the near to 90kmh I have now …

[shack]

This mod will be good for those of us running taller tyres - I’d be happy to 80kmh lock up again vs the near to 90kmh I have now …For sure, one thing I hadn't given much thought was bigger tyres.

Different diff ratios or transfer case gearing would of course be picked up by the ABS sensors so won't make much difference, other than the RPM the engine would be doing, which could be an issue on the torque front if it's too low.

[Four Loko]

This mod will be good for those of us running taller tyres - I’d be happy to 80kmh lock up again vs the near to 90kmh I have now …

yup I was thinking the same.

[finallyrangie]

This is very interesting, thank you for the effort and the post about it, how much effect would it have a I already have a V8 torque converter on my remapped td5, it seems to go alright but is that just because I don't know what I'm missing?

[shack]

This is very interesting, thank you for the effort and the post about it, how much effect would it have a I already have a V8 torque converter on my remapped td5, it seems to go alright but is that just because I don't know what I'm missing?I don't know.

It'll be better!

In all honesty the lower stall speed converter probably overcomes some of the issues driveability wise of the stuck unit.

It still however locks up at the same speed as the stock one and uses the same shift maps which are not optimised for a tuned vehicle.

When I get a chance I'm going to send out a couple of remapped units, and one will be going on a car with a tune and the V8 converter.

I'm just so busy at the moment!

I'll get the guy to report back here on whether it's worth doing it not.

[Slunnie]

Other usual features MIGHT be a towing mode which would replace the completely pointless sport mode.


A TD5 with ECU and IC upgrade I tend to think works better when in sport mode.

[shack]

I know a couple have mentioned that over the last few years, and I guess personal preference comes in to the deal.

From what I can see in the mapping and research I've done, all it does is stays in each gear longer on Accel, will drop back a gear sooner at the same torque request( I.E. 3<4).

It will also drop out of TCC lock at higher rpm.

The feeling off how the car drives may also be down to the individual tune that is installed as well.

But with a TD5, is important to remember that maximum efficiency is theoretically at about 2k RPM, so the further we run from that, the less efficient it probably is.

Anyway, that's my take!

And if you like sport mode and how the car currently goes with the stock TCU, leave it alone and enjoy your car!

Cheers
James

[twr7cx]

This mod will be good for those of us running taller tyres - I’d be happy to 80kmh lock up again vs the near to 90kmh I have now …

How do the speedo correction units (e.g. Hunter Di) effect this? I know it's correcting the speedometer and odometer reading, but are the ECU and TCU receiving correct speeds or not? I cannot recall where in the wiring the correction happens - pretty sure I followed Slunnie's guide in installing it 10 years ago.
If the TCU speed signal is the uncorrected one this would need to be taken into consideration for those with larger tyres when having a custom TCU remap done.

[twr7cx]

James - can you program the TCU to prevent entering a gear before a certain speed?
Having previously been involved in playing with Ford Falcons the taxi mechanics and drivers swore that keeping the four speed automatic transmission in 3rd for any driving at 60km/h or under reduced wear and tear on the gearbox etc. I've always followed this in my D2a Td5 and the original auto is now at 320,000km and still smooth - might be connected, might not. But it would be nice to know that I don't actually need to manually shift the auto shifter from D to 3 each time as the TCU is programmed not to shift into 4th gear until at least 65km/h, for example.

Aside from watching out for the change in the engines rpm and feel through the vehicle is there an easy way to see what gear the transmission is and torque converter lock status? I'd like to do some driving being more observant of what's going on so that I could give some consideration towards what I'd rather like to be going on... Does the Nanocom have a screen that displays this?

[AK83]

The C6100 from Hunter Di made no difference to how the torque converter behaved.
I tested it the speedo converter to over read on the speedo(that is show higher than actual), like most standard vehicles operate, and no difference in the speed at which it locked the torque converter.

well, actually it did change the 'speed' that was displayed on the speedo .. eg. 90 instead of 80 ... but this wasn't real of course.

I got the speedo corrector to show 1k/h above actual in the end.
Gear changes and torque converter lock/unlock stayed the same.

From my experience with changing the TCU, it seems like the speed signal is directly from the ECU, as this all changed dramatically when I swapped to the V8 TCU. No other changes made to tyres or speedo corrector.

[shack]

Quick reply to all:

If the Hunter DI is installed it should make no difference to ANYTHING other than the dash display, it's purely cosmetic, but still a handy mod.

The slabs ECU could be "remapped" to fix this without the Hunter DI and that would change how the entire drivetrain behaved.

I.E. engine, torque converter, auto shift.

twr7cx:

The TCU can be mapped to stay in any gear until whatever speed you want... Or many many other possibilities!

And yes, you can tell what gear you are in by the solenoids settings in the D2 auto box section of the nanocom... But you'll have to calculate it yourself.

[Slunnie]

Quick reply to all:

If the Hunter DI is installed it should make no difference to ANYTHING other than the dash display, it's purely cosmetic, but still a handy mod.

The slabs ECU could be "remapped" to fix this without the Hunter DI and that would change how the entire drivetrain behaved.

I.E. engine, torque converter, auto shift.

twr7cx:

The TCU can be mapped to stay in any gear until whatever speed you want... Or many many other possibilities!

And yes, you can tell what gear you are in by the solenoids settings in the D2 auto box section of the nanocom... But you'll have to calculate it yourself.
Are you talking about if the speedo correction is mounted to affect only the dash? Most are connected in at the SLABS output, shouldn't that affect everything other than the SLABS itself?

[Slunnie]

I know a couple have mentioned that over the last few years, and I guess personal preference comes in to the deal.

From what I can see in the mapping and research I've done, all it does is stays in each gear longer on Accel, will drop back a gear sooner at the same torque request( I.E. 3<4).

It will also drop out of TCC lock at higher rpm.

The feeling off how the car drives may also be down to the individual tune that is installed as well.

But with a TD5, is important to remember that maximum efficiency is theoretically at about 2k RPM, so the further we run from that, the less efficient it probably is.

Anyway, that's my take!

And if you like sport mode and how the car currently goes with the stock TCU, leave it alone and enjoy your car!

Cheers
James

You will have you're development program. I just like the early kickdown of S mode but also think it locks up too late.

[shack]

Are you talking about if the speedo correction is mounted to affect only the dash? Most are connected in at the SLABS output, shouldn't that affect everything other than the SLABS itself?If that's the case then I was wrong, I thought they were only fitted to the Speedo input somewhere, apologies for that.

[onebob]

When I installed my Hunter DI Speedo corrector I interrupted the PWM speed signal right at the SLABS unit, and not at the instrument pack.
My naive expectation was / is that connecting there would mean that the corrected signal would continue to be shared to ALL the devices that require a speed signal input.

[onebob]

Talking to my mechanic son just now and he reckons that the later lockup speed I experience is likely related to the increased load that the TCU sees now that I’m running non standard tyres.

[shack]

Talking to my mechanic son just now and he reckons that the later lockup speed I experience is likely related to the increased load that the TCU sees now that I’m running non standard tyres.I'll look up a wiring diagram later when I get 5 to double check.

And yes, your mechanic son is bang on about additional load altering lockup points.

But you could have a couple things going on if indeed you are also "correcting" the signal to the TCU.

[RRT]

Hey Shack
Is it possible to modify the torque setting that puts Mario and Stan on or is this controlled via the ECU?

[shack]

Hey Shack
Is it possible to modify the torque setting that puts Mario and Stan on or is this controlled via the ECU?I'm not aware of any "torque setting" at this stage, but there could be one.

However, don't forget that the TCU can't actually work out what the torque is, it gets sent a signal over the canbus of ESTIMATED torque, and adapts itself to that.

What is probably happening is a P0722 fault, have you seen that?

That happens when the torque converter is slipping more than what the TCU tune specifies as acceptable.

[RRT]

I'm not aware of any "torque setting" at this stage, but there could be one.

However, don't forget that the TCU can't actually work out what the torque is, it gets sent a signal over the canbus of ESTIMATED torque, and adapts itself to that.

What is probably happening is a P0722 fault, have you seen that?

That happens when the torque converter is slipping more than what the TCU tune specifies as acceptable.


That's the one!

[shack]

That's the one!So nothing can really be done about that other than a trans overhaul.

Is the converter locked when the MS lights come on?

[twr7cx]

I'll look up a wiring diagram later when I get 5 to double check.

This < Truspeed speedo correction installation - www.slunnie.com (http://www.slunnie.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=48) > is the guide that I followed for installation. Originally I fitted a Truspeed, but when that failed they were no longer available so a Hunter Di unit replaced it but in the same position.
Reading the comments on there it's on the SLABS output so the corrected signal should be received by all systems other than SLABS.


The unit was suggested to be placed by the manufacturer next to the speedo wire on the dash, which would result in only the speed being corrected, and not the other systems within the truck. Like Mark, I did not do this, and placed the unit directly after the SLABS computer before the speed signal branched off to the other systems such as the ECU and ACE computers.

[RRT]

So nothing can really be done about that other than a trans overhaul.

Is the converter locked when the MS lights come on?

Thinking about that question and the answer is probably no. The times it has come on is hard acceleration such as overtaking and here the trans kicks down, or, the very infrequent putting the welly in when taking off.

Drive with a moderate foot to ensure it does not happen with less aggressive throttle application due to not wanting it to happen such as driving up the steeper dunes last trip. AM still able to overtake safely and quickly, just have to moderate the foot more than I would like rather than getting past and then having to stop and restart...

[super56r]

Hi all,

As far as I’m aware, the sport mode is useful off road to maintain the selected gear, so it might not be entirely beneficial to nix it. Happy to be corrected though.

Wayne.

[shack]

Hi all,

As far as I’m aware, the sport mode is useful off road to maintain the selected gear, so it might not be entirely beneficial to nix it. Happy to be corrected though.

Wayne.When in low range "sport" mode becomes "manual" mode, that wouldn't get changed as it works quite well I think.

I'm not really planning to change much low range stuff at all as I think it works well as is.

[SPROVER]

Thinking about that question and the answer is probably no. The times it has come on is hard acceleration such as overtaking and here the trans kicks down, or, the very infrequent putting the welly in when taking off.

Drive with a moderate foot to ensure it does not happen with less aggressive throttle application due to not wanting it to happen such as driving up the steeper dunes last trip. AM still able to overtake safely and quickly, just have to moderate the foot more than I would like rather than getting past and then having to stop and restart...I get this exact same thing with mine. Even with a rebuilt auto.

[RRT]

Hi all,

As far as I’m aware, the sport mode is useful off road to maintain the selected gear, so it might not be entirely beneficial to nix it. Happy to be corrected though.

Wayne.

Have to say that the M mode in low range is fantastic. Spent a lot of time in M during the recent desert trip, frustrated more when the average speed was a bit too high for M 4th and having to change to Hi Range and the gear box 'slipping' in low gears.

An easy way to see how effective it is is when going down hill and having better engine braking, foot off the accelerator with the locked convertor in low range. This especially up in the high country down the steeper tracks, M1 and M2 barely require a touch on the brakes and maintain controlled progress.

[onebob]

Have to say that the M mode in low range is fantastic. Spent a lot of time in M during the recent desert trip, frustrated more when the average speed was a bit too high for M 4th and having to change to Hi Range and the gear box 'slipping' in low gears.

An easy way to see how effective it is is when going down hill and having better engine braking, foot off the accelerator with the locked convertor in low range. This especially up in the high country down the steeper tracks, M1 and M2 barely require a touch on the brakes and maintain controlled progress.

X2 for M1 & M2 - that’s how I drive in the Victorian High Country, provides more control than Hill Descent Control and gives the brakes a rest.

[shack]

Can anyone confirm if the converter locks in low range on acceleration?

I don't think it does from what I can see, but it will lock on decel if decel occurs over 2000rpm, but unlocks again at 1300-1500rpm.

As I said earlier, I can't see any reason to change low range.

[RRT]

Can anyone confirm if the converter locks in low range on acceleration?

I don't think it does from what I can see, but it will lock on decel if decel occurs over 2000rpm, but unlocks again at 1300-1500rpm.

As I said earlier, I can't see any reason to change low range.

The easiest way of feeling the lockup is when changing gears in M Low Range. Say when going down hill in say M2 and coming up to a woops se daisy and having to slow down rather than launching into the air going over it - The initial change happens and you find the vehicle runs on (no lock up) then binds with the lockup and restores the control. So this cant be done just before, it requires the down change to anticipate the run on out till lock up.

Going up the steep climbs there is no flaring of the trans / revs and am more than confident it stays locked once engaged, as noted there is a brief moment when changing that revs flare before settling down again.

As to changing the profile of low range, would say that it extremely well judged and unless there is a situation say, up extreme rock climbing which I have not sought out, it may be rabbit hole with no improvement at the end. Just my opinion.

[onebob]

IIRC - when driving in low range with MANUAL selected the auto trans will change DOWN but not UP - and you have got to be aware that when you are driving in M and you are on the brakes and coming to a stop, that you will stall the engine if you are not quick enough to nudge the shift lever into N… that suggests to me that the torque convertor is locked in any of the selected gears when with low range M selected.

[shack]

Going up the steep climbs there is no flaring of the trans / revs and am more than confident it stays locked once engaged, as noted there is a brief moment when changing that revs flare before settling down again.


I think it may only be fluid lockup that you are experiencing, that coupled with the gearing can make it seem like the converter is locked, the only way to tell would be looking at a nanocom or similar to see if solenoid 3 is on or not...

I'm not 100% sure myself what happens, but I THINK it's only on decel it locks properly.

Cheers
James

[onebob]

I think it may only be fluid lockup that you are experiencing, that coupled with the gearing can make it seem like the converter is locked, the only way to tell would be looking at a nanocom or similar to see if solenoid 3 is on or not...

I'm not 100% sure myself what happens, but I THINK it's only on decel it locks properly.

Cheers
James

Re ‘lockup’ RAVE maybe of help here - and on reflection I think that the auto trans actually changes Up but not Down when in low range manual - either way it’s been a while since I last got out to play☹️ due to the pandemic !!!

[shack]

Re ‘lockup’ RAVE maybe of help here - and on reflection I think that the auto trans actually changes Up but not Down when in low range manual - either way it’s been a while since I last got out to play[emoji3525] due to the pandemic !!!Unfortunately there seem to be a few errors in some of the official documents I have access too.

But I have read everything I can get my hands on, fwiw manual mode operates a lot differently to normal low range.

Anyways my questions were merely for interest, as I said earlier, it works well as is.

[RRT]

I think it may only be fluid lockup that you are experiencing, that coupled with the gearing can make it seem like the converter is locked, the only way to tell would be looking at a nanocom or similar to see if solenoid 3 is on or not...

I'm not 100% sure myself what happens, but I THINK it's only on decel it locks properly.

Cheers
James

181259

Your are right re the lock up as to 0% throttle only in Manual mode.

Was interested to find though on page 54

P0722 * Torque converter slipping
Maintains current gear in low range, limp
home mode in high range. Shift pressure to
maximum, harsh gear shifts/engagement.




So I did not need to back off going up those dunes as I had been worried it would fault and go to third, as it will maintain gear ratio irrespective of the fault in M, arrrrgggghhhh.

Secondarily the trans goes to 3rd at stop but stays in fourth once moving with the P0722, again overtaking up the hill and getting Mario and Stan flashing me did not mean that I would have to drive in 3rd from then on, so stopped and reset it by restarting letting the cars and trucks I had just passed sail by, it stays in 4th, arrrrgggghhhh * 2.

[shack]

For anyone following along and wondering what's going on, I've got 2 remapped TCU's out in the wild getting analysed and I'm waiting for feedback as to the improvement or lack thereof!

[Rymnd]

For anyone following along and wondering what's going on, I've got 2 remapped TCU's out in the wild getting analysed and I'm waiting for feedback as to the improvement or lack thereof!

Looking forward to hearing the feedback.

[shack]

Looking forward to hearing the feedback.Ditto

[discorevy]

Hi All.

James was kind enough to send me one of his remapped TCU's for assessment.

This is on a TD5 Discovery with a V8 converter and VGT, full size intercooler, etc, running Shacks tune so I can only give a perspective from this at the moment.

I will also be testing on D2's with standard torque converters and turbos in the near future as I suspect the difference with a standard stall rate converter would be even more pronounced.

So bum dyno set to "S" for sensitive, Eco and Sport button pressed to "S" for Shacktuned and away we went.

The change from 1st to 2nd felt around 10% earlier than factory for a given throttle position on light application of the pedal, as were all the other changes.
This had been discussed earlier and suits my application with the VGT which, combined with the engine mapping, produces much more torque earlier in the range.

The earlier shift points combined with the V8 TC make for a much more relaxed torque wave of acceleration.
Full noise still allows maximum rpm shift points.

Also, for my application as I live in a rural area, so almost straight to either 90 or 110 kph depending which way I turn, James was able to reduce the time on the warm up strategy for TC lock up ( this suits me but not advisable for people in cold climates as the trans fluid does need to warm up quickly )

On to the icing on the cake, which is the lock up speed. On this revision, the lock up now happens at 75 kph in top and will drop back out of lock up at 75 with 0% throttle ( though even very slight throttle application will hold lock up down to the usual 1500 rpm ) This alone is a huge improvement.

Overall this has made the absolute most out of the 4HP22eh and this, combined with the "new school" engine mapping, gives a great, grunty, fun and enjoyable drive while ironing out the bugbears of the ZF4 box.

All the time and effort (and hexadecimal nightmares) well worth the end result.

Apologies if I have left anything out as this was written in the wee hours ( no interruptions :))

[shack]

Thanks for that Discorevy.

I'll be interested to see what you think on the stock stuff as that's where I feel the most improvement will be.

Feel free to list any faults or strange behaviour you notice as this will be a benefit for everyone, including myself!

I don't want to be sending out TCU's that get returned because of erratic behaviour.

I haven't noticed any myself so that's good!

[johnp38]

Well? What's the latest?

[shack]

I've got all the mods that most owners would want pretty much sorted, I started work on some reasonably comprehensive changes, but have run out of time , and also realised only 1% of owners would be interested!

As to a saleable product, I will post in the "for sale section" when I'm in a position to actually do the work and post out TCUs.

Hopefully not too long, but I am extremely busy at the moment!

[johnp38]

also realised only 1% of owners would be interested!

Yep, when I got interested in doing my own ecu tunes I looked for info on the tcu but there was nada on these even though there was info around on making changes to other very similar bosch versions.

It was only when you said it has to be a chip jobbie like the MSB setup not thru obd I realized why. Also I think (don't know for sure because I still have mine sitting in the box !) that for those that have upgraded to the V8 Torque Converter, the lower stall speed would have negated a lot of the frustration of the Td5 tcu shift points and lockup settings.

I put the V8 tcu back in a fortnight ago and am back to feathering the accelerator to slow the 'too quick to kickdown' behaviour but accepting that as trade off against the Td5 'too slow to upshift (in my opinion)' behaviour.

Currently running a factory MSB 101340, which has not been molested (socketed/tuned).

Are you able to adjust granular enough to stop any kick down after, let's say, flooring it in drive at 110km/h to overtake?

[shack]

You can't really adjust anything in the engine tune to stop the kickdown when floored.

In the TCU however it's easy.

I can make the TD5 engine tune "play nicer" with the V8 TCU, but it won't fix it completely.

[johnp38]

You can't really adjust anything in the engine tune to stop the kickdown when floored.

In the TCU however it's easy.

I can make the TD5 engine tune "play nicer" with the V8 TCU, but it won't fix it completely.

I was only referring to the tcu at the end of my previous post not interested in messing with the ecu for trans behaviour. I've already played with the torque and gear range tables in my socketed ecu and some but no justifiable worthwhile improvement for the time/fuel spent stuffing around.

Got plenty of time but no real inclination to get into Hex so unless I bother to get back into the tuning forums and find some software that makes the tcu dump readable I have no interest in doing what others are better at (I'm looking at you)

Will it be outright buy with core fee refundable or send and get modded and sent back?

I think there is a bigger market than you realize once you build the mouse trap.

[RRT]

You can't really adjust anything in the engine tune to stop the kickdown when floored.

In the TCU however it's easy.

I can make the TD5 engine tune "play nicer" with the V8 TCU, but it won't fix it completely.


Is the kickdown a function of the Torque, Revs or Throttle PS?

Hard to qualify this but the D2 with all the tune and engine mods is seemingly less likely to shift up on low throttle than the stock D2a. Best up change I seem to get with the D2 is around 2500rpm whilst the D2a with a feathered throttle will change around 2200rpm. Or is it I am a hoon and the extra performance is sort of nice!

[shack]

Kickdown is a function of all the above, as well as other things.

It can be difficult to predict exactly when it will happen but there are "areas" that are pretty reliable.

Part of it will be getting to know how to drive the Auto.

Also there are some differences between the TCU's on the early and late TD5's, that could account for some of the difference.

[rick130]

Only just seen this James, I haven't been on the boards for quite a while.

Well done!!
I was only just thinking about this on Sunday, with larger rubber the lock up speed in 4th is too high.
2nd and 3rd aren't too bad for the most part, but what I really need is a V8 TC, I was about
to pull the pin on that 😂

[shack]

Only just seen this James, I haven't been on the boards for quite a while.

Well done!!
I was only just thinking about this on Sunday, with larger rubber the lock up speed in 4th is too high.
2nd and 3rd aren't too bad for the most part, but what I really need is a V8 TC, I was about
to pull the pin on that [emoji23]The V8 converter is still the way to go, hopefully my tuning will complement it, and we end up with a much better driving experience on the gear selection front!!

[Bosco15]

As a complete "Noob" to Auto Disco, I am experiencing the PITA that is towing a boat in 80km/h zones.
This development gives me hope for a more civilised drive.
I'm off to check the classifieds for your ads. 8-)

[johnp38]

As a complete "Noob" to Auto Disco, I am experiencing the PITA that is towing a boat in 80km/h zones.
This development gives me hope for a more civilised drive.
I'm off to check the classifieds for your ads. 8-)

Are you keeping it in 3rd towing at that speed? I'm sure at that speed, shifter in third, will lock up your converter.

Others pls chime in on above.

Plan on getting a V8 torque converter, an ecu tune (don't forget the variable nozzle turbo upgrade) and a tcu tune and do not sell it ever.

[Bosco15]

Ahh. Thanks for the advice.
I have not been towing in 3rd, but D.
She seems to tow ok, but has to be close to 90km/h before she will lock up, then ease off the throttle. Soon enough, I catch up with Grandma doing 80 on the nose and auto drops back. Loose momentum. Repeat.
I will try 3rd and am definitely planning on mods to make her the tow vehicle she was destined to be.
This forum has invaluable info. I have been reading up for the last eight hours straight. Lol.

[shack]

Hi guys,

I'll probably be able to start supplying stuff shortly.

I've recently driven a couple of non tuned engines with non tuned autos.... Oh my... That gave me a decent kick in the pants to get moving!


Part of the issue is it's a lot more work than tuning a NNN ECU, which is so quick and easy, where you can simply reflash, the chip on the TCU has to desoldered, new chip sourced and flashed, soldered back on then tested in case there's a bad pad or chip or other issue.

And then there's the issue of the actual tuning and getting that right.

I'm somewhat time poor and have been for a couple years, but if I get organised better, I should be able to get into it!

In the meantime, anyone towing needs to make sure they can do so locked up, I really think the extra heat_is_a_killer, and if you realise your converter is slipping when locked, that'd be a great sign to rebuild while you still have something that can be.

Other than that...

Thanks for your patience!!


Cheers
James

[johnp38]

I put the V8 transmission control unit back in this arvo to see how it goes with the V8 torque converter and it is a nice improvement against when I was running the V8 transmission control unit with the Td5 torque converter.

That would be because the shift and lockup revs are now matched to the slip/stall of the V8 converter as factory intended I guess.

Unfortunately back to the 'over sensitive' kickdown when giving it a bit, but the upshift and early converter lockup on mild throttle is like I would expect the V8 drivers enjoy.

A lot of Td5 owners out there with performance fuel tunes would be so much better off with a V8 torque converter and a tuned transmission controller. (and I will add in also a variable nozzle turbo)

Having the slippery Td5 torque converter so the stock tune can rubber band its way up to speed towing a load was a bad decision in my never humble opinion, they should have used the V8 torque converter with a suitable ecu tune and tcu tune to suit the diesel characteristics (and put in a bloody VNT like other manufacturers were doing from back then)

[CU55TM Disco]

Hi guys,

I'll probably be able to start supplying stuff shortly.

I've recently driven a couple of non tuned engines with non tuned autos.... Oh my... That gave me a decent kick in the pants to get moving!


Thanks for your patience!!


Cheers
James

Gday James,

Is this a service you are still offering??

[shack]

Gday James,

Is this a service you are still offering??Well yes.. but I don't know about the "still"!

I'm so busy with normal work this has to take a back seat.

When I started to look at tuning the TCU I just thought "wouldn't it be amazing if I could find the way to change lockup speed.

I managed that and you'd think I'd be happy.. But no.

Next was the warm-up routines.

Next was all the shift points, then a heap of low range stuff to use the torque converter better off road, then I realised that all old school (and most of the new school) remaps were running the wrong line pressure in the box and likely destroying torque converters (sound familiar?....Not suggesting I can stop this by any means, but I think I can certainly help negate accelerated decline with remapped motors).

Then I also realised on "big" tunes there was an issue with shift de-torque amounts so gear shifts were neither smooth nor calibrated correctly time wise.

Then came the fault codes to enable or disable as required for certain applications.

Then the uphill/towing adaptions.

And then why using the V8 TCU has a tendency to destroy the box through excess slipping.

I guess re reading through that I've got a bit sorted, but there always seems to be another hill in the distance as soon as you crest the current one.

So yes, I "still" offer this service, but it's very dependent on my time and your level of patience!

[johnp38]

And then why using the V8 TCU has a tendency to destroy the box through excess slipping

Are you referring to V8 TCU with V8 Torque converter conversion or with Td5 original converter?

Mines running fine with V8 converter and V8 transmission controller, but I have bog stock msb101340 as I am happy with power/driveability around town where I do most of my driving, a tad less kickdown sensitivity on the open road would be nice though. And I love the early upshifts and 60km/h around town lockup.

So what TC/TCU combo causes the excess slippage that we should be aware of and do you tune for it?

And where the flock is your website with your services/fees?

[sierrafery]

It's not a remap but if anybody is interested it's possible to lock up any time if needed earlyer than the TCU does it by using a switch and a relay, here's the scheme, the wire which goes to the TCU's pin 32(output to lock-up solenoid) must be cut and there goes the relay's normaly closed contact, when the switch activates the (big blue)relay the lock up solenoid gets earth like when the TCU locks it up in normal operation... the red square on the right side can be another relay's coil or a resistor to emulate the lock up solenoid's resistance as the TCU to not consider it open circuit and go to limp mode... based on the statements of those who tried that(not me) it's working without probs.

187255

[gavinwibrow]

It's not a remap but if anybody is interested it's possible to lock up any time if needed earlyer than the TCU does it by using a switch and a relay, here's the scheme, the wire which goes to the TCU's pin 32(output to lock-up solenoid) must be cut and there goes the relay's normaly closed contact, when the switch activates the (big blue)relay the lock up solenoid gets earth like when the TCU locks it up in normal operation... the red square on the right side can be another relay's coil or a resistor to emulate the lock up solenoid's resistance as the TCU to not consider it open circuit and go to limp mode... based on the statements of those who tried that(not me) it's working without probs.

187255


Some years ago I bought a transmission lockup kit from a major transmission organisation in Victoria.

When I finally got around to getting it fitted in my 4HP24, the local WA firm who rebuilt the transmission refused to fit the kit, saying it would quickly damage the box.
I was only planning to use it when doodling along in 70 kmph traffic, and never got an answer that explained his logic as he took off to serve a customer, and I haven't been back since (hoping the gurus on here would find a non damaging/long term solution).
I have a heavier torque converter out of a 4L Jaguar, but otherwise a standard 24 transmission.

[johnp38]

Some years ago I bought a transmission lockup kit from a major transmission organisation in Victoria.

When I finally got around to getting it fitted in my 4HP24, the local WA firm who rebuilt the transmission refused to fit the kit, saying it would quickly damage the box.
I was only planning to use it when doodling along in 70 kmph traffic, and never got an answer that explained his logic as he took off to serve a customer, and I haven't been back since (hoping the gurus on here would find a non damaging/long term solution).
I have a heavier torque converter out of a 4L Jaguar, but otherwise a standard 24 transmission.

Shack can adjust the tcu parameters to get it to lock at 70 I believe, no need for the kit to be fitted.

[sierrafery]

Some years ago I bought a transmission lockup kit from a major transmission organisation in Victoria.

When I finally got around to getting it fitted in my 4HP24, the local WA firm who rebuilt the transmission refused to fit the kit, saying it would quickly damage the box.
I was only planning to use it when doodling along in 70 kmph traffic, and never got an answer that explained his logic as he took off to serve a customer, and I haven't been back since (hoping the gurus on here would find a non damaging/long term solution).
I have a heavier torque converter out of a 4L Jaguar, but otherwise a standard 24 transmission.I was reluctant as well about this thing on the electronic side of it less on the mechanical(which i dont know well) but the guy who invented it states it's OK and i just shared the info, the whole story starts here Disco 2 - Manual/Tiptronic gearbox | LandyZone - Land Rover Forum (https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/manual-tiptronic-gearbox.382278/#post-5436345)

[shack]

Just to try and answer the above questions in one go...

The V8 ECU sends different information to the TCU than what the TD5 does, so you will must likely be running lower pressure, that means all bets are off if using the V8 TCU with a TD5, irrespective of the converter... don't forget there is more that can slip in an auto than the converter.

So no guarantees with that mod.

And John... I've actually got a website setup, but realised I was too busy to actually advertise and leave people unhappy with my lack of ability to supply tunes on time, and also cause myself undue stress trying to do it... So it's on hold.

As regards the lockup mod, I'd just mention that whilst it may work, the auto runs different pressures between converter locked and converter unlocked, so again YMMV.

I'm not saying it's risky, just that it's an unknown and could cause damage, also you can actually stall the engine with the converter left locked, just like a manual.

[gavinwibrow]

Just to try and answer the above questions in one go...

The V8 ECU sends different information to the TCU than what the TD5 does, that means all bets are off if using the V8 TCU with a TD5, irrespective of the converter... don't forget there is more that can slip in an auto than the converter.

So no guarantees with that mod.

As regards the lockup mod, I'd just mention that whilst it may work, the auto runs different pressures between converter locked and converter unlocked, so again YMMV.

I'm not saying it's risky, just that it's an unknown and could cause damage, also you can actually stall the engine with the converter left locked, just like a manual.




So at the end of the day, and being lazy ie without doing my research, does this mean that for an auto TD5, there is no simple, relatively cheap long term way of having access to under 80 kmph lock-up, or any variations thereof?

[shack]

So at the end of the day, and being lazy ie without doing my research, does this mean that for an auto TD5, there is no simple, relatively cheap long term way of having access to under 80 kmph lock-up, or any variations thereof?Depends what you mean by "relatively cheap" and if you can find someone to tune the TCU (probably me, and you'll need to be patient).

[johnp38]

So at the end of the day, and being lazy ie without doing my research, does this mean that for an auto TD5, there is no simple, relatively cheap long term way of having access to under 80 kmph lock-up, or any variations thereof?

I'm doing the research for all of you, by actually having it running in stop start traffic, very short runs to shops and longer 80km return runs to other side of city.

I don't have trans temp gauge so no help there, butt the bumometer isn't detecting any untoward trans behaviour/slip, up and down shift quality/operation seem same as Td5 trans controller.

What I do like is that the V8 trans controller doesn't keep the engine revving stupid in the lower gears with late upshifts to warm it up like the td5 one does on a cold morning. I always felt it was too revvy trying to warm itself up previously.

The V8 tcu does not allow any lockup at all unless engine temp is around 45 celsius last i checked with nanocom, it is a pleasure to drive with the upshifts happening a lot sooner and lazy pedal using that 1500-1900 rpm torque.

It does however still think it is in a revvy V8 so is a bit too quick to drop a cog and try and take off if I get too heavy on the pedal, this is actually ok when I run a power tune as the engine revs silly then, but with a stock tune it just drops a cog and revs more going nowhere unless I either put the boot in a lot more to get the revs up then back off to force an upshift, or back right off so the car slows a fraction to achieve the same.

It's 95 percent ok around town and fine on the highway at 110 but only if I don't try to overtake as it wants to rev the non existent V8 instead of using the torque of the diesel and holding gear.

But the early upshifts and the lockup at 60km/h I really really like, great for lazy plodding around in the traffic without the revvy behaviour. The V8 torque converter install also did have an additional calming effect , if I can call it that, on the around town driveability and made a significant difference in reducing the lag between putting the foot down and feeling the car follow through with movement instead of watching the revs jump up and then the little converter catching the vehicle up.

With my still limited experience on the vehicle and it's character (barely 10000 klicks driving if that, in 34 months of ownership) but taking in impressions of changes as I have played with tunes and torque converter swapout, and running both the td5 and V8 transmission controllers on each torque converter, I feel the real let down of the vehicle is the choice of transmission, not the tame factory tune of the engine, at least a 6 or preferably 8 speed tranny with their lower take off gearing would transform this thing into a far far more responsive vehicle.

[shack]

I feel the real let down of the vehicle is the choice of transmission, not the tame factory tune of the engine, at least a 6 or preferably 8 speed tranny with their lower take off gearing would transform this thing into a far far more responsive vehicle.

Agreed, but for most of us, $15k to fit a better auto might stretch the car mods piggy bank!

So I decided to try make the best of what we have.

[CU55TM Disco]

Has anyone investigated using the Compushift stand-alone TCU for the 4hp22/24?

That was my original thought before i stumbled across being able to use the V8 TCU or even getting the TCU reflashed! (where was this info 10 years ago!)

3rd Gear lockup @ 60Kph and 4th Gear Lockup somewhere between there and 80 would be my ideal, I would like to drive it in that config before committing to a TC Swap.


I think if I were going to drop 15K on a Gbox swap and its associated headaches, I would look at engine+Gbox swaps and get a proper headache lol

[shack]

Has anyone investigated using the Compushift stand-alone TCU for the 4hp22/24?



I had a bit of a look a few years ago, probably set you back around $2k by the time you are finished, maybe a bit more if you get someone else to install.

At least that's the versions I was looking at.

I think they would be pretty good but I was recently told they take a bit of setting up to get it going right, which makes sense if you have to pick all of your own shift up and down points.

I don't know how they control/decide line pressure or if they have any adaptive shift patterns or low range settings.

[Dav2481]

Hi, I've been amazed at the progress James made working on dissecting and modifying the TCU, I thought I would crack it open and have a look.

My knowledge of mapping and how manufacturers lay out data onto PROMs to be interpreted by the software (If it is proprietary or following industry standards) is very lacking, and I barely know what I am looking at.

Fortunately, I know my way around the hot air station and a programmer, so here is a copy of mine for anyone wanting to see the TCU PROM.

I did try a few basic things to try and understand what was going on, but ended up running out of time to pursue it further. I last worked on this back in May after reading James' initial post.

What I tried:

- Opened file in a hex editor, and found strings relating to part numbers, but could not decipher any of the other data as I am not familiar with how it is encoded and laid out.

- Tried to see if there was any executable content using Ghidra, but that didn't go anywhere, assuming the generic 8051 instruction set shipped with the program was appropriate, and user error was not a factor.

Pretty sure the CPU is a Siemens 80C517. This is important as the 517 variant contains a mask ROM, which probably contains the actual program, and reads data on the factory-installed PROM. This makes sense as nothing "executable" stands out to me in the read PROM file, so I am sure the actual program is in mask ROM.

My next steps were to read the mask ROM from the CPU per the datasheet (Page attached). As long as the ROM is in unprotected mode, it should output data corresponding to the memory location I request. This test involves modifying the circuit significantly to facilitate reading and writing the data correctly, and I didn't get around to it. Maybe there was a better way?

Once I had copied over the mask ROM, I would have tried Ghidra again to see how the program read the PROM based on logic inputs from sensors and outputs to drivers, and make some uneducated guesses.

My ZIP file (Change extension!) contains:

- MODEL.TXT with all the writing located on the Bosch TCU front label.

- M27C1001-BACKUP.zip with three independent reads of the PROM. (All identical.)

- And M27C1001@PLCC32.BIN, another read of the PROM. (Identical again.)

Hope someone finds this helpful! Or at least James gets a laugh.

David.

[shack]

Hi, I've been amazed at the progress James made working on dissecting and modifying the TCU, I thought I would crack it open and have a look.

My knowledge of mapping and how manufacturers lay out data onto PROMs to be interpreted by the software (If it is proprietary or following industry standards) is very lacking, and I barely know what I am looking at.

Fortunately, I know my way around the hot air station and a programmer, so here is a copy of mine for anyone wanting to see the TCU PROM.

I did try a few basic things to try and understand what was going on, but ended up running out of time to pursue it further. I last worked on this back in May after reading James' initial post.

What I tried:

- Opened file in a hex editor, and found strings relating to part numbers, but could not decipher any of the other data as I am not familiar with how it is encoded and laid out.

- Tried to see if there was any executable content using Ghidra, but that didn't go anywhere, assuming the generic 8051 instruction set shipped with the program was appropriate, and user error was not a factor.

Pretty sure the CPU is a Siemens 80C517. This is important as the 517 variant contains a mask ROM, which probably contains the actual program, and reads data on the factory-installed PROM. This makes sense as nothing "executable" stands out to me in the read PROM file, so I am sure the actual program is in mask ROM.

My next steps were to read the mask ROM from the CPU per the datasheet (Page attached). As long as the ROM is in unprotected mode, it should output data corresponding to the memory location I request. This test involves modifying the circuit significantly to facilitate reading and writing the data correctly, and I didn't get around to it. Maybe there was a better way?

Once I had copied over the mask ROM, I would have tried Ghidra again to see how the program read the PROM based on logic inputs from sensors and outputs to drivers, and make some uneducated guesses.

My ZIP file (Change extension!) contains:

- MODEL.TXT with all the writing located on the Bosch TCU front label.

- M27C1001-BACKUP.zip with three independent reads of the PROM. (All identical.)

- And M27C1001@PLCC32.BIN, another read of the PROM. (Identical again.)

Hope someone finds this helpful! Or at least James gets a laugh.

David.Good work!

It's a massive time sink working through it all.

What vehicle did you pull the TCU out of?

Yes I know it's a D2, just wondering what sort!

Cheers
James

[Dav2481]

Good work!

It's a massive time sink working through it all.

What vehicle did you pull the TCU out of?

Yes I know it's a D2, just wondering what sort!

Cheers
James


Thanks!

The old eBay order page now sends me to an RJ-45 coupler... Regardless I'm pretty sure it was out of a Australian 2000 Td5 D2, bought from eBay for $60.

It sure is a time sink, but an educational one!

Trying to free up some time before November as I am curious to see if the ROM is unprotected or not.

[shack]

Thanks!

The old eBay order page now sends me to an RJ-45 coupler... Regardless I'm pretty sure it was out of a Australian 2000 Td5 D2, bought from eBay for $60.

It sure is a time sink, but an educational one!

Trying to free up some time before November as I am curious to see if the ROM is unprotected or not.Hmmmm...

I'd be very surprised if that was out of a TD5 .

The reason I ask is because I think once before someone told me they had that revision TCU in a TD5, but I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be.

I did however only have a very quick squiz as I'd have to start over with it as it's different to every other TCU I've bought and "decoded".

I'll have a better look as time permits.

[Dav2481]

Hmmmm...

I'd be very surprised if that was out of a TD5 .

The reason I ask is because I think once before someone told me they had that revision TCU in a TD5, but I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be.

I did however only have a very quick squiz as I'd have to start over with it as it's different to every other TCU I've bought and "decoded".

I'll have a better look as time permits.


Very interesting, I regret not making a copy of the eBay listing like I normally do.

I'll look around in case I did copy it, but in the meantime, here's a photo of that same TCU from eBay's image cache.

Another one for your repository of ROMs.

EDIT:

According to Black Box Solutions, the GS8.87.0 was fitted to all automatic variants of the Discovery 2. The GS8.87.1 was fitted to the Petrol P38 from 1999 onwards.

More to think about and research.

[shack]

Very interesting, I regret not making a copy of the eBay listing like I normally do.

I'll look around in case I did copy it, but in the meantime, here's a photo of that same TCU from eBay's image cache.

Another one for your repository of ROMs.Yeah, all those numbers line up with the revision numbers in the .bin.

That TCU should be for the low output 4.0 V8.

The 8.87.1 will not work with a D2 and vice versa.

[sierrafery]

Based on the LR p/n UHC100350 that TCU was factory fitted to D2 with "low compression GCC V8 Petrol" engine (what ever that GCC means[bighmmm]) ... you can see all the p/n by opening the + links here Genuine Ecu-gearbox & Transfer Box (automatic Transmission) For Land Rover Discovery 2 1998 - 2004 Classic | Jaguar Land Rover Classic Parts (https://parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/parts/index/part/id/14.55783.56187.59801/brand/land-rover/) and here Genuine Ecu-gearbox & Transfer Box ((+)cdn/mex/usa,automatic Transmission,lhd,v8 Petrol) For Land Rover Discovery 2 1998 - 2004 Classic | Jaguar Land Rover Classic Parts (https://parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/parts/index/part/id/14.55783.56187.59802/brand/land-rover/)

[shack]

"low compression GCC V8 Petrol" engine (what ever that GCC means[bighmmm]) ...

GCC means "Gulf Cooperation Council".

The Low compression version of the V8 4.0l engine was delivered ONLY to GCC countries and Australia.

As you mentioned, the TCU listed above is for the lower power V8, so it's the correct unit for V8s in Australia and the gulf.

I was pretty sure it was a V8 controller but had to check.

[Netstillhere]

I have a td5 disco2 that would benefit from a gearbox remap but not being to tech savvy will this get off the ground

[shack]

I have a td5 disco2 that would benefit from a gearbox remap but not being to tech savvy will this get off the groundI guess it already is "off the ground".

However I'm very time poor at the moment and it doesn't look like that's going to change soon.

Also... I spent that much time on Dev work I got pretty well cooked, and couldn't really face getting back into it.

So I don't have a website and I don't advertise, as that would suggest I can quickly supply a tune!

If you send me a PM though we can talk it through..(when you have enough posts).

[johnp38]

I guess it already is "off the ground".

However I'm very time poor at the moment and ..... so I don't have a website

He reads Hex backwards and forwards in his sleep and can't knock up a 1 page website ....... YEAH RIGHT YA BIG TIME SLACKER !!!!! [biggrin]

[shack]

He reads Hex backwards and forwards in his sleep and can't knock up a 1 page website ....... YEAH RIGHT YA BIG TIME SLACKER !!!!! [biggrin]I didn't say I couldn't do a website, I said I HADN'T done a website as I haven't got the time to do the tuning at the minute.

Life has most definitely got in the way of my hobbies!

Actually... The website is essentially done, but not "commissioned".

[Mtnman42]

I just found this thread about remapping Disco 2 transmission controllers. I am a professional auto builder and I am starting an Isuzu 4BD1T engine swap into a 2004 Discovery 2 with a V8 in the US. I was originally going to put a NV4500 manual transmission from a Chevrolet into this truck but I would really like to use the factory automatic transmission. Can this transmission controller be remapped to match a diesel? If so, is it something that can be done remotely or would I need to send the module to Australia? Obviously shipping might be slow and expensive I would guess, so I am more than willing to buy any flash tool that might be able to be used. I have several high end scan tools and Nanocom as well.

I wanted to PM James about this but the system won't allow it since I am new member.

[sierrafery]

I just found this thread about remapping Disco 2 transmission controllers. I am a professional auto builder and I am starting an Isuzu 4BD1T engine swap into a 2004 Discovery 2 with a V8 in the US. I was originally going to put a NV4500 manual transmission from a Chevrolet into this truck but I would really like to use the factory automatic transmission. Can this transmission controller be remapped to match a diesel?...
Hi my advice is to stick to your original plan with the manual transmission cos even if the D2 TCU can be a bit tuned for better shift controll it has a CAN link with the engine ECU and it needs specific engine management data which can be delivered to match only by the Lucas Td5 diesel ECU or by the Bosch V8 engine ECU(rpm, torque, airflow, throttle position, ECT, IAS, etc) + a CAN version identifier... in a nutshell, IMO the D2's TCU will not work with any other engine's ECU.

[shack]

I just found this thread about remapping Disco 2 transmission controllers. I am a professional auto builder and I am starting an Isuzu 4BD1T engine swap into a 2004 Discovery 2 with a V8 in the US. I was originally going to put a NV4500 manual transmission from a Chevrolet into this truck but I would really like to use the factory automatic transmission. Can this transmission controller be remapped to match a diesel? If so, is it something that can be done remotely or would I need to send the module to Australia? Obviously shipping might be slow and expensive I would guess, so I am more than willing to buy any flash tool that might be able to be used. I have several high end scan tools and Nanocom as well.

I wanted to PM James about this but the system won't allow it since I am new member.

It's an interesting project.

The points raised by Sierrafery are valid though.


I THINK I can get the auto to run standalone, actually I'm pretty sure I can, however you will lose any adaptive pressure control, adaptive shift control and a few other things.

I can get past all the missing inputs without error but as mentioned, one of the main reasons for the electrically controlled version of the 4hp22 is all the adaptive stuff, which improves both driveability and reliability.

Cheers
James

[Mtnman42]

Hi my advice is to stick to your original plan with the manual transmission cos even if the D2 TCU can be a bit tuned for better shift controll it has a CAN link with the engine ECU and it needs specific engine management data which can be delivered to match only by the Lucas Td5 diesel ECU or by the Bosch V8 engine ECU(rpm, torque, airflow, throttle position, ECT, IAS, etc) + a CAN version identifier... in a nutshell, IMO the D2's TCU will not work with any other engine's ECU.

Hi,
Thanks for the input! On diesel swaps, I am pretty good at using the old ECU to trick the vehicle into thinking it still has the old engine in it. I was thinking of using the factory TPS, temp, air flow meter and whatever else I need. I like a automatic transmission and keeping the original trans simplifies a lot of stuff. I see that Shack has responded so I am going to bounce it off him and see what he thinks. Or using the NV4500 sounds good too. Win win on my end I think.
Cheers

[Mtnman42]

It's an interesting project.

The points raised by Sierrafery are valid though.


I THINK I can get the auto to run standalone, actually I'm pretty sure I can, however you will lose any adaptive pressure control, adaptive shift control and a few other things.

I can get past all the missing inputs without error but as mentioned, one of the main reasons for the electrically controlled version of the 4hp22 is all the adaptive stuff, which improves both driveability and reliability.

Cheers
James

Thanks for looking at this, I appreciate it! I just saw the replies now and I am still figuring out how to use the forum board. I did not get any notifications on my email that there where new posts so I will need to find out how to change the notification setting. Not that important right now but I will look into it.

My initial thought was to use the factory engine sensors, tps, airflow, temp, whatever I need and fabricate them onto the diesel engine, then remap the trans controller to shift better for a diesel. The engine ecu should just think it is running the factory engine. I really want to keep the factory traction control, hill descent, abs etc. I can come up with signal conditioners if necessary. I would think the transmission and traction control just need engine crankshaft speed, engine load (MAP or Mass Air or both) and wheel speed, probably temps too but those are easy to handle.

Is that something you think could work?

Thanks,
Noah

[Tins]

Thanks for looking at this, I appreciate it! I just saw the replies now and I am still figuring out how to use the forum board. I did not get any notifications on my email that there where new posts so I will need to find out how to change the notification setting. Not that important right now but I will look into it.



Thanks,
Noah

Top right of this window/ thread tools/ subscribe to thread/ notification type/ instant email. Forum has been under some sort of DOS attack recently, but I believe functions are working properly ATM.

[TonyC]

Hi All,

I'm sure someone, JC maybe, put a 4HP behind a 4BD1T in a RRC and it was a very short lived gearbox.
I'll PM him and see if it was him.

It was about the time Sheldon was doing Isuzu MSA to LT230 adapters, so some years ago.

Wholesale Automatics do a 4BD1T to GM 4L80E conversion, and can supply engine - transmission and transmission - transfer adapters.

Land Rover Defender 4 Speed Automatic Conversion (https://automatictransmission.com.au/manual-to-automatic-conversions/defender-isuzu-4bd1t-4l80e-conversion/)

There are GM and Ford 4 and 6 speed and ZF 6 and 8 speed transmission to LT230 adapters available, not sure about 4BD1 to transmission, other than the one above.

Hope this is some help.

Tony

[shack]

Thanks for looking at this, I appreciate it! I just saw the replies now and I am still figuring out how to use the forum board. I did not get any notifications on my email that there where new posts so I will need to find out how to change the notification setting. Not that important right now but I will look into it.

My initial thought was to use the factory engine sensors, tps, airflow, temp, whatever I need and fabricate them onto the diesel engine, then remap the trans controller to shift better for a diesel. The engine ecu should just think it is running the factory engine. I really want to keep the factory traction control, hill descent, abs etc. I can come up with signal conditioners if necessary. I would think the transmission and traction control just need engine crankshaft speed, engine load (MAP or Mass Air or both) and wheel speed, probably temps too but those are easy to handle.

Is that something you think could work?

Thanks,
NoahWhilst your idea of grafting the sensors onto the Isuzu motor may work to some degree, I think multiple errors will be thrown as you won't have injectors and O2 sensors, and possibly more.

The next point would be that the TCU sends a torque reduction request to the ECU before a gearchange, with the setup you are talking about this will be impossible as the motronic unit isn't actually controlling anything, also linked to that is that the TCU needs an estimate of engine load and torque to calculate the % of torque reduction required.

You will have very harsh shifts that will most likely damage the box.

I know very little of the 4bd1t other than it is reliable, has good low down torque, and can stop all the nuts and bolts on the car from seizing through vibration treatment! As far as I know they have no ECU...?

If you really want a diesel with all the features, I'd fit a TD5 to it if you can get hold of one.

It's not plug and play but it's the closest you will get.

2nd option would be to go with the 4bd1t and use a manual box...I can probably help you keep all the ABS and TC and HDC.


Is the current engine a 4.6 motronic Rover?

Cheers
James

[sierrafery]

Or if you want to keep it automatic i think a D1 autobox which doesnt need electronic management would be a more viable option or if you a are loaded with money get this Compushift – Ashcroft Transmissions (https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/product-category/compushift/)

[Mtnman42]

I know very little of the 4bd1t other than it is reliable, has good low down torque, and can stop all the nuts and bolts on the car from seizing through vibration treatment! As far as I know they have no ECU...?

Correct, mechanical injection with an inline Zexel pump.


If you really want a diesel with all the features, I'd fit a TD5 to it if you can get hold of one.

I do have a source for TD5 drivetrains so I will explore that.


2nd option would be to go with the 4bd1t and use a manual box...I can probably help you keep all the ABS and TC and HDC.

And that is what I will probably do. I have an adapter from the 4BD1T to the NV4500 already. Just need to machine out a LT230 adapter.


Is the current engine a 4.6 motronic Rover?

Yes, exactly.

And thanks for all the input so far. I have saved three of these trucks and waited for a little spare time and money to work on them. I like the look and feel of the Disco and think they are worth resto modding.

[shack]

I believe the 4.6 equipped cars actually came with a 4HP24 box as standard, this is a pretty handy upgrade over the 22.

Ashcroft engineering in the UK should have most of the bits to adapt the TD5 to the 24.

If you go this way the TCU will still need remapping, but I think if you want to go diesel with auto, this is the easiest/best way.

Sierrafery's suggestion of the auto out of a D1 will also work and be easier to do, but it's obviously a weaker box, and the big positive of no electrics is also it's big failing!.. Only IMO of course.

Do you have any land Rover specific diagnostic tools?

Cheers
James

[Mtnman42]

I believe the 4.6 equipped cars actually came with a 4HP24 box as standard, this is a pretty handy upgrade over the 22.

Yes, all 3 of my discos are 2004 and all have a 4HP24 for sure.


Do you have any land Rover specific diagnostic tools?

Yes I have a Nanocom. I also have a pretty high end Autel that does some stuff.

Cheers
James[/QUOTE]

[Tins]

I do have a source for TD5 drivetrains so I will explore that.





That's interesting. Didn't think the TD5 Disco made its way over there. Is your source Defender?

[Mtnman42]

That's interesting. Didn't think the TD5 Disco made its way over there. Is your source Defender?

Yes, they are Defender from UK. There is a company importing them and completely resto modding them with modern drivetrain, interior etc and selling for almost 200k, go figure. They sell off the original engines.

[Tins]

Yes, they are Defender from UK. There is a company importing them and completely resto modding them with modern drivetrain, interior etc and selling for almost 200k, go figure. They sell off the original engines.

Aah. Seen a couple of mobs over there doing that.

[shack]

Yes, all 3 of my discos are 2004 and all have a 4HP24 for sure.



Yes I have a Nanocom. I also have a pretty high end Autel that does some stuff.

Cheers
James[/QUOTE]I've sent you a PM with contact details

[HRSDiagnostics]

Hi all, ive recently done a deal for a D2 with the 4.0v8 Thor lump fitted and its matched to a 4HP22, i remap myself and have a partial read and a full read from the M5.2.1 Ecu, BUT i also have a read from the TCU and am very interested in mapping it to optimise it for use in a CCV Trialer that i am building.

i have already removed the IC to get a read from and would be very interested to see if Shack is still progressing in the development side of things?192412192413

Thanks steve

[shack]

I haven't done much on the Dev side for a while, that said I can do most things already.

The TCU tuning for the Motronic D2 is already pretty good IMO, it's the TD5 version that's problematic.

What changes were you hoping to make?

Did you manage to read the M5.2.1 without removing the chip?

They are well designed to stop you doing that!

[HRSDiagnostics]

Thanks for the reply.

I would like to be able to alter shift characteristics ect, basically i would like to be able to test and find the "best" settings for the Trialer in comp scenario, ie i will never be going fast so would never see a locked status.

Yes ive read the AM29F200BB whilst still mounted to the pcb. i can get a partial read containing the map tables and also a full read for the full bag of mashings.

Please do you have any pointers as to info i can use for reverse engineering of the TCU please?

[reid25]

Hi all fellow Discovery 2 enthusiasts.

I'm very pleased to announce that for some time now I have been running a couple of Discovery 2 TD5 autos with remapped transmission controllers, and I'm really pleased with the outcome!

In the near future these will be available for any Discovery 2 auto including the V8, although I feel the V8 TCU is probably fairly well tuned/matched to the engine.

It's taken quite some time and effort to do... more than I'd like to admit, but it's entirely my own work from start to finish, and I'm really pleased to be able to offer this, as I felt it was always one of the last remaining bug bears of the discovery 2.

Remapping of autos running any low stall speed converter will also be possible, but the gains will not be as noticeable as the stock converter, but most likely still worth it as we can lock the converter at lower speed which will decrease temperature and improve drive, as well as picking shift points.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask here as it will hopefully improve the outcome for everyone.

Cheers
James

Old thread, how much am I looking at for something like an auto remap?

[shack]

Old thread, how much am I looking at for something like an auto remap?I was told it's best to avoid sales stuff in the thread, if your want to follow up, send me a PM.

[shack]

Thanks for the reply.

I would like to be able to alter shift characteristics ect, basically i would like to be able to test and find the "best" settings for the Trialer in comp scenario, ie i will never be going fast so would never see a locked status.

Yes ive read the AM29F200BB whilst still mounted to the pcb. i can get a partial read containing the map tables and also a full read for the full bag of mashings.

Please do you have any pointers as to info i can use for reverse engineering of the TCU please?As in the disassembly?

I've only done a little bit.. most of the work I've done was just straight sleuthing it out.

So working out how the box works and then visualising how it would be controlled electronically.

You know the old story.. It came to me in a dream and I forgot how I did it in another one!

Offtrack showed me a few tricks with the disassembly towards the end of my work, but the stuff I use was pretty much all Just reading the hex code.

As far as the lower lockup etc, you will get gains for sure at lower speeds, but I wonder if some of that will be lost with time taken for engine de torque , solenoid activation etc etc, if you got into a gear you could stay in and still be in the "power" band of the Motronic V8, it might be worth it then.

The code will allow you to lock in any gear at any speed, so you could do it.

I have spent literally hundreds of hours working on it and have essentially not been able to monetize it due to the end of my dev work coinciding with a number of issues that have sucked up all my time and energy.


I'm hoping that will back off and I can sell a bit of stuff, so I'm not keen on giving away the info.

If you can disassemble the M5.2.1 ems you should get on ok, but it will still take a while.

I must say, despite people looking down on the Motronic, I still think it was very clever for it's time.

[HRSDiagnostics]

Thanks,

I fully understand and respect the time youve had on it and certainly respectthat you dont want to be giving info out willy nilly, i was exactly the same when it camt to the Immo solution on my M57 conversion, and still quite a bit now too on the way i remap certain vehicles.

I will take a look at the other components and start the trail of dissasembly of my M5.2.1 and also take a look at the hex in further detail, i can see a few obvious maps and will take a look into the scalling of them and table sizes ect.

Thanks again, i plan to socket the TCU to make things somewhat easier, i may even search for a flashable IC to save on chips during the development tests ect, the next step will be to build a bench loom so i can connect to it with diagnostics ect so i can view setting ect.

Thanks again, once i have enough posts so i can PM i will fire you a message with any findings i make so you can add them to what you have.

[shack]

Thanks,

I fully understand and respect the time youve had on it and certainly respectthat you dont want to be giving info out willy nilly, i was exactly the same when it camt to the Immo solution on my M57 conversion, and still quite a bit now too on the way i remap certain vehicles.

I will take a look at the other components and start the trail of dissasembly of my M5.2.1 and also take a look at the hex in further detail, i can see a few obvious maps and will take a look into the scalling of them and table sizes ect.

Thanks again, i plan to socket the TCU to make things somewhat easier, i may even search for a flashable IC to save on chips during the development tests ect, the next step will be to build a bench loom so i can connect to it with diagnostics ect so i can view setting ect.

Thanks again, once i have enough posts so i can PM i will fire you a message with any findings i make so you can add them to what you have.Thanks for the offer.

Sounds like you are pursuing it in much the same way that I did!

I'll pm you and go from there.

Cheers

[HRSDiagnostics]

Thankyou thats great i will fire you a pm when my count is adequate. only 1 more to go lol

[HRSDiagnostics]

I will hopefully get a little time later today, once ive worked through my booked in jobs to get a bench loom made up and i can then socket the board ready to start some testing.

[V8Ian]

I will hopefully get a little time later today, once ive worked through my booked in jobs to get a bench loom made up and i can then socket the board ready to start some testing.
Ding! Your post count is up to ten. :BigThumb:
Sorry about the inconvenience, but we had scammers PMing, members after one post.