and the winner is....

[one_iota]

Land Rover Defender: OLD versus NEW + Toyota Land Cruiser 76 & Hummer H3 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/fRmkfcZ_dCg)

[ozscott]

I see the winner as the old Defender for if pure offroad ability is your bag (including not damaging your vehicle...there is only so much meat those light weight arms on the new Defender can lose and only so many hits they can take) but, while the electronics are working as destined there is no doubt the new version is a fantastic bit of kit and, electronic reliability aside, represents the beat all rounder on the road.

Cheers

[one_iota]

The H3 was a big surprise. I have only ever seen black ones with tinted windows, stretched and full of drunken bridesmaids.

[grey_ghost]

I watched this and found it interesting. The H3 did well (I think) because of ground clearance. The old Defender was modified (those tyres looked like there was no clearance in the guards, and it had lockers). The new Defender was given the win - although I am not sure why it beat the H3?

Interesting test.

[scarry]

That is a great vid.

No surprise the ND won,its the latest and greatest,was stock,did well with what looked like H/T tyres.
So a sort of Apples and Oranges test,as most of the others were modded in one way or another.
A bit wierd one vehicle goes up the last run with tyres at 40PSI,and one at 13PSi,as we all know,tyre pressures are critical in sand.
Pity an LC300 wasn't thrown into the mix,reports are it is just as good as the ND,has better wheel travel,but worse approach and departure angles.

[ozscott]

That is a great vid.

No surprise the ND won,its the latest and greatest,was stock,did well with what looked like H/T tyres.
So a sort of Apples and Oranges test,as most of the others were modded in one way or another.
A bit wierd one vehicle goes up the last run with tyres at 40PSI,and one at 13PSi,as we all know,tyre pressures are critical in sand.
Pity an LC300 wasn't thrown into the mix,reports are it is just as good as the ND,has better wheel travel,but worse approach and departure angles.Mate the LC300 is the first Land Cruiser I have liked the look of since the 50 and 60 (FJ) Series. And so much lighter to be less than a fat whale is very nice. Pitty about the price and availability. Cheers

[ramblingboy42]

Isn't it also a bigger pity about the price and availability of the 663 ? (dunno about anyone else , I'm getting tired of it being called the new defender)

Are you suggesting the 663 is cheaper and more available than the 300LC?

[ozscott]

Isn't it also a bigger pity about the price and availability of the 663 ? (dunno about anyone else , I'm getting tired of it being called the new defender)

Are you suggesting the 663 is cheaper and more available than the 300LC?No mate. Both are pricey and unavailable. Cheers

[grey_ghost]

I realise that the Defender has long waiting times, but so do a lot of other manufacturers.

Toyota springs to mind. Haven’t they stopped taking orders for the 79 because they have such a long waiting time?

A guy at work ordered a new Isuzu Mux in Jan - told a September delivery. That’s now been pushed back 3 times, and it’s currently slated for a Jan delivery…

[scarry]

Mate the LC300 is the first Land Cruiser I have liked the look of since the 50 and 60 (FJ) Series. And so much lighter to be less than a fat whale is very nice. Pitty about the price and availability. Cheers

Everyone has different ideas of looks,i like the last model IMHO it looks better,and it has a split tailgate.[bigsmile1]

Mate of mine has a RRS on order,i asked him why not the Defender,he said it looked like crap.
I recon they look great,as long as the side lunch box has fallen off and the steel wheels are gone.
Cant beat a Bronze 110,dark wheels.....

[one_iota]

I realise that the Defender has long waiting times, but so do a lot of other manufacturers.

Toyota springs to mind. Haven’t they stopped taking orders for the 79 because they have such a long waiting time?

A guy at work ordered a new Isuzu Mux in Jan - told a September delivery. That’s now been pushed back 3 times, and it’s currently slated for a Jan delivery…

I've today been informed officially by email from JLR Australia that my Defender is now sailing the big blue sea on its way down under and I quote in part:

"Your new Land Rover Defender is now on a ship heading to Australia. We have taken extra care to make sure your new vehicle arrives in pristine condition."

The last sentence worries me...they used to drag Alfa Romeos behind the ship which accounted for the rust problem!

I ordered it in April and I'm told it will be on our dry land this November! So it all seems random.

[grey_ghost]

I've today been informed officially by email from JLR Australia that my Defender is now sailing the big blue sea on its way down under and I quote in part:

"Your new Land Rover Defender is now on a ship heading to Australia. We have taken extra care to make sure your new vehicle arrives in pristine condition."

The last sentence worries me...they used to drag Alfa Romeos behind the ship which accounted for the rust problem!

I ordered it in April and I'm told it will be on our dry land this November! So it all seems random.

That’s great news - my Defender arrived 8 months after I ordered it, but that was last year. I think the more options you tick - the longer the possible delay.

When yours arrives - does it have a sunglass holder & lockable petrol cap? Bizarre question I know but I have read of spec changes and these items sometimes go missing.. (Mine has them)

[one_iota]

Isn't it also a bigger pity about the price and availability of the 663 ? (dunno about anyone else , I'm getting tired of it being called the new defender)

Are you suggesting the 663 is cheaper and more available than the 300LC?

I don't care what it's called. My first Land Rover was called a Discovery .....it had carpet. My Current Defender doesn't have carpet and neither does the new one so ipso facto it must be what the lettering on the bonnet calls it...but I call it a Land Rover. :-)

One of my first fitted accessories will be this:

181074

[one_iota]

That’s great news - my Defender arrived 8 months after I ordered it, but that was last year. I think the more options you tick - the longer the possible delay.

When yours arrives - does it have a sunglass holder & lockable petrol cap? Bizarre question I know but I have read of spec changes and these items sometimes go missing.. (Mine has them)

So I've heard.

I hear it's a bit of a lucky dip into the parts bin...that's so Land Rover!

A lot of what I specified was not available when I ordered...analogue dash only, Matrix headlight option not available, Larger LCD maybe-maybe not. So tow hitch, air suspension, and e-diff were the only boxes ticked. Hopefully they managed the white paint and 5 20" wheels.

[grey_ghost]

So I've heard.

I hear it's a bit of a lucky dip into the parts bin...that's so Land Rover!

A lot of what I specified was not available when I ordered...analogue dash only, Matrix headlight option not available, Larger LCD maybe-maybe not. So tow hitch, air suspension, and e-diff were the only boxes ticked. Hopefully they managed the white paint and 5 20" wheels.

I have the digital dash and to be honest I played around with it in the first month, and haven’t changed it since…. I don’t think that it’s a deal breaker..

I went with the standard headlights - and they are not very good… One day I will add a slim line bar between the grill slots (I have seen it and looks good)

Larger LCD - personally I think the standard one looks fine as it fits inside the rails, whereas the bigger one sits outside the rails. I am happy with the smaller one.

I added tow hitch and ediff also.

Make sure you post up some pics whe the beast arrives!

I just clocked over 41,000km in 12 months and love mine. Absolutely love it.

[one_iota]

Make sure you post up some pics whe the beast arrives!

I'm hoping to update this photo taken some time ago:

Same place same partner different Defender

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/05/419.jpg

[Eric SDV6SE]

Dropped in at Barbagellos the other day as I had a question re my build. Our sales rep told me that since ordering ours in June, they managed to secure 95 build slots with the factory (just Perth), since then the factory removed/reallocated 45 of those slots. It's apparently a constant negotiation with JLR UK to secure builds in the Slovak factory He went on to tell me that their recent L663 deliveries have all arrived with full digital dash and all other as ordered specifications. No word on lead times, although he did mention that petrol models seem to be taking longer than diesels, and the more options are added also adds time.

I'm happy to wait, rather enjoying riding my motorcycles atm...

[Tombie]

Dropped in to closest dealer last week.
Lovingly looked at the offerings on display.
Went through the build spec for a nice 110.
Got price and lead time….. [emoji2955]

Today, signed up for something completely different…
Never thought it would happen, but a 3.0 Wildtrak is coming.
It’ll be the wife’s daily, her 90 will go into storage and the D4 will remain my primary vehicle.

Oh well….

[ozscott]

Mike if they have sorted themselves out, which they should have (few vibration and other minor niggled aside which will be sorted as part of servicing) then it should be a great vehicle. Has the best specs.

Cheers

[DiscoJeffster]

Damn good value when you compare it to everything else. Nice work

[ozscott]

Damn good value when you compare it to everything else. Nice workVery good value against any 6 cylinder 4wd or Defender, 300 series etc. The absolute value proposition if comparing only utes remains with Triton in my view...maybe Isuzu at a push if they sort out some issues. But if the Ranger 3.0 does as well as I hope for Ford then down the track I would certainly consider (but only likely to do so if I got a heavy boat again. My 1 tonn jobbie at present is too easy for the little 2.4 punchy Mitsubishi motor). Cheers

[Tombie]

Very good value against any 6 cylinder 4wd or Defender, 300 series etc. The absolute value proposition if comparing only utes remains with Triton in my view...maybe Isuzu at a push if they sort out some issues. But if the Ranger 3.0 does as well as I hope for Ford then down the track I would certainly consider (but only likely to do so if I got a heavy boat again. My 1 tonn jobbie at present is too easy for the little 2.4 punchy Mitsubishi motor). Cheers

Thats one of our key drivers... We like the Triton also.

However, 2.5t of Shark Cat and plans for a 20' Offroad van in the next few years were too much for the little engine.

[ozscott]

Thats one of our key drivers... We like the Triton also.

However, 2.5t of Shark Cat and plans for a 20' Offroad van in the next few years were too much for the little engine.Yep mate completely agree. Cheers

[scarry]

her 90 will go into storage .

Just my 2 cents worth,keep a very close eye on the 90.

The 110 my son had deteriorated pretty quickly while it was in storage,and that was only for 12 months.

Rust and corrosion started in all sorts of places one would least think of,then the mice decided to have a chew....

The Ford should work out well,a couple of mates i know are onto the new Everest to replace their D4's.

[Tombie]

Just my 2 cents worth,keep a very close eye on the 90.

The 110 my son had deteriorated pretty quickly while it was in storage,and that was only for 12 months.

Rust and corrosion started in all sorts of places one would least think of,then the mice decided to have a chew....

The Ford should work out well,a couple of mates i know are onto the new Everest to replace their D4's.

Thanks. The 90 will be well treated before it hits the shed.

Still have 8 months of use before the Ranga Ranger arrives.

[ozscott]

Orange, nice. Keen to see a write up about the new one in the other manufacturers pages on here Tombie. Cheers

[chuck]

Test drove the New Everest this week was very impressed until i measured the back.

The dog sits 1 metre tall the back of the Everest is 800mm

He loves the D2a because he can sit and look out the windows - lol

He fits in a 300 series which i have on order (GXL) but that is 17 months off

Stock 300 series recently got a glowing review of both travel to the Simpson & Simpson Crossing (4 part series)

I asked Landrover for a price and measurement on a Defender 110 10 days ago & have only received the stock standard "we received your email response".

Does anyone know the height (floor to roof) of a 110 in the cargo area?

[Tombie]

Test drove the New Everest this week was very impressed until i measured the back.

The dog sits 1 metre tall the back of the Everest is 800mm

He loves the D2a because he can sit and look out the windows - lol

He fits in a 300 series which i have on order (GXL) but that is 17 months off

Stock 300 series recently got a glowing review of both travel to the Simpson & Simpson Crossing (4 part series)

I asked Landrover for a price and measurement on a Defender 110 10 days ago & have only received the stock standard "we received your email response".

Does anyone know the height (floor to roof) of a 110 in the cargo area?

Defender Cargo Space Measurements - Land Rover Forums - Land Rover Enthusiast Forum (https://landroverforums.com/forum/2020-defender-60/defender-cargo-space-measurements-101363/)

[chuck]

Tombie

Thanks - i think Noah can live with 94cm

The last 6cm are just hair

I will have to follow up Landrover

They don't seem to be doing prices on line any more?

[ozscott]

Funny you should say that. My German Shepherd loves the D2 for the same reason. Great spot for a big dog and low enough to make loading and unloading stress free for their joints. Cheers

[one_iota]

181137

[scarry]

He fits in a 300 series which i have on order (GXL) but that is 17 months off



Many are getting them a lot quicker than 17 months,maybe you need to chat to your dealer.

Oh,the Dog,ours seems to be happy sitting on the covered back seat,but as she is pretty old now,struggles to jump in,we have to help her.

[spudfan]

Just my 2 cents worth,keep a very close eye on the 90.

The 110 my son had deteriorated pretty quickly while it was in storage,and that was only for 12 months.

Rust and corrosion started in all sorts of places one would least think of,then the mice decided to have a chew....

The Ford should work out well,a couple of mates i know are onto the new Everest to replace their D4's.

Either put it on axles stands or on timber on blocks and drive it in situ.That will keep everything in good condition and stop dampness setting in, which will not do your headlining any good. Drive as normal, use your brakes etc.

[Tombie]

Either put it on axles stands or on timber on blocks and drive it in situ.That will keep everything in good condition and stop dampness setting in, which will not do your headlining any good. Drive as normal, use your brakes etc.

Something like that.

We will just throw some rego on it every few months and take it for a Sunday drive!

[PJJ]

I don't know how other " New Defender" owners think, but I'm rather disappointed with mine.
Anyone else feel this way?
Toying with Selling.

Phil

[jon3950]

What do you find disappointing about it?

[ozscott]

I don't know how other " New Defender" owners think, but I'm rather disappointed with mine.
Anyone else feel this way?
Toying with Selling.

PhilPJJ what are you comparing it too? Is it a character (lack of?) issue or something else? Very interested to know. Cheers

[chuck]

I don't know how other " New Defender" owners think, but I'm rather disappointed with mine.
Anyone else feel this way?
Toying with Selling.

Phil

PJJ

I would also be interested

I have placed an order on a 300 Series Cruiser based on my own research which has included, cost, delivery time, availability of off road accessories, test drive, service schedules, warranty, dealer availability etc

One of the items was a $7995 dealer delivery fee from a big Melbourne LR dealer.

Delivery time frames were similar.

[grey_ghost]

I don't know how other " New Defender" owners think, but I'm rather disappointed with mine.
Anyone else feel this way?
Toying with Selling.

Phil

I love mine - 12 months in and 43,000km later.

Why are you disappointed?

What did you come from?

What expectations haven’t been met?

[ramblingboy42]

hahaha, did you find out what some people are already asking on the 2nd hand market for them?

anything , anything that realises better than 10% pa is potentially worthwhile selling.

I never buy with the heart and am looking for a good trade/purchase realisation right now....no rush, it'll happen.

my home has realised 700% since I've owned it , my car will possibly realise 10%pa since I owned it , due to judicious initial purchase price and current market valuation.

a LR 663 defender may currently produce results like that.....if I had one I'd sell it to someone buying with their heart.

[one_iota]

Maybe it is as simple (complicated) as Buyer's Remorse conflated with potential Seller's Remorse...the psychology is interesting especially looking at the responses. All sorts of cognitive dissonance, desire to reinforce self worth and affirming of personal beliefs.

Get over it! It's just a motor vehicle.[tonguewink]

[PJJ]

Hi Guys
Sorry for the late delay replying.
After having owned a D3 & a D4 for a combined Travels around this Great Country of ours of over 400k kilometers, I reckoned that the New Defender had a lot to live up to.
I had been waiting with great expectations for the New Defender to turn up & Land Rover really stretched the years out before releasing the new one on the waiting Faithfull.
What am I disappointed about? Well, I blame it on the Disco's I have had for all those years.
The Defender has a lot of new Hi Tech stuff, & I don't mind that, But one thing it hasn't got is storage room. I reckon the people who designed the D3 & D4 weren't even consulted when another Mob started on the Defender.
No storage Bins, No little handy nooks & Crannies to store stuff, Rear storage area only just fits an Engel in with the back door closed, & then it takes half the storage area in the back!
The Rear seat folds down in a way that itself takes up room, unlike the Disco's brilliant setup and there's more storage under & around those seats in the Disco.
No Complaints on Performance & economy, but not a great gain on the D4. for myself & the Cook, it's a little harder to get in & out of. Not bad, but all these things keep adding up. Clamshell Bonnet.......
I did not realize how much we miss not having a Tailgate, and I know the Spare on the Disco was not an ideal setup, but Jeez, I can't even lift the Spare on the Fender!!!
Yeah!, I am Disappointed with it, & in a Quandary whether to keep it, or sell it on & get one of the last D4s made.
Sorry guys but that's the way I feel at the Moment.[bigsad]

Phil

[shack]

In fairness I have looked at a number of new 110s and other than the price... The only thing that puts me off is the storage space and boot size, we simply could not manage with a vehicle like that.

If we were towing a caravan all the time that would change things considerably, but we aren't, so the car has to carry a heap of things.

It's basically the only downfall from my perspective, but it would be a problem.

[grey_ghost]

Hi Guys
Sorry for the late delay replying.
After having owned a D3 & a D4 for a combined Travels around this Great Country of ours of over 400k kilometers, I reckoned that the New Defender had a lot to live up to.
I had been waiting with great expectations for the New Defender to turn up & Land Rover really stretched the years out before releasing the new one on the waiting Faithfull.
What am I disappointed about? Well, I blame it on the Disco's I have had for all those years.
The Defender has a lot of new Hi Tech stuff, & I don't mind that, But one thing it hasn't got is storage room. I reckon the people who designed the D3 & D4 weren't even consulted when another Mob started on the Defender.
No storage Bins, No little handy nooks & Crannies to store stuff, Rear storage area only just fits an Engel in with the back door closed, & then it takes half the storage area in the back!
The Rear seat folds down in a way that itself takes up room, unlike the Disco's brilliant setup and there's more storage under & around those seats in the Disco.
No Complaints on Performance & economy, but not a great gain on the D4. for myself & the Cook, it's a little harder to get in & out of. Not bad, but all these things keep adding up. Clamshell Bonnet.......
I did not realize how much we miss not having a Tailgate, and I know the Spare on the Disco was not an ideal setup, but Jeez, I can't even lift the Spare on the Fender!!!
Yeah!, I am Disappointed with it, & in a Quandary whether to keep it, or sell it on & get one of the last D4s made.
Sorry guys but that's the way I feel at the Moment.[bigsad]

Phil

Not that it’s for me, but have you thought of a 130? Extra room in there.

I would prefer the spare on the tailgate rather than underneath, much easier in my eyes.

As for the tailgate - fair point. I assume they did the rear door as a heritage design. If they do a door - the D4 guys don’t like it. If they do a tailgate - the Defender guys say “it’s a Defender, it needs a door with a spare not a Disco”.

Pluses and minuses in both I think.

[scarry]

Hi Guys
Sorry for the late delay replying.
After having owned a D3 & a D4 for a combined Travels around this Great Country of ours of over 400k kilometers, I reckoned that the New Defender had a lot to live up to.
I had been waiting with great expectations for the New Defender to turn up & Land Rover really stretched the years out before releasing the new one on the waiting Faithfull.
What am I disappointed about? Well, I blame it on the Disco's I have had for all those years.
The Defender has a lot of new Hi Tech stuff, & I don't mind that, But one thing it hasn't got is storage room. I reckon the people who designed the D3 & D4 weren't even consulted when another Mob started on the Defender.
No storage Bins, No little handy nooks & Crannies to store stuff, Rear storage area only just fits an Engel in with the back door closed, & then it takes half the storage area in the back!
The Rear seat folds down in a way that itself takes up room, unlike the Disco's brilliant setup and there's more storage under & around those seats in the Disco.
No Complaints on Performance & economy, but not a great gain on the D4. for myself & the Cook, it's a little harder to get in & out of. Not bad, but all these things keep adding up. Clamshell Bonnet.......
I did not realize how much we miss not having a Tailgate, and I know the Spare on the Disco was not an ideal setup, but Jeez, I can't even lift the Spare on the Fender!!!
Yeah!, I am Disappointed with it, & in a Quandary whether to keep it, or sell it on & get one of the last D4s made.
Sorry guys but that's the way I feel at the Moment.[bigsad]

Phil

The same reasons we didn't go the Defender,main reason was there was not enough room in the rear cargo area.And lack of aftermarket accessories.

We moved onto another brand two years ago,heaps of room,split tailgate,spare easily dropped down,actually a setup way better than the D4,and happy with our decision.Although door pockets are smaller than D4.Niggling warranty issues with the D4 was also a pain,same as every LR we have had,no doubt Defender would have been similar,not one problem with this one so far.

The 130 maybe the go,now,for us but they are very expensive.

[ozscott]

The same reasons we didn't go the Defender,main reason was there was not enough room in the rear cargo area.And lack of aftermarket accessories.

We moved onto another brand two years ago,heaps of room,split tailgate,spare easily dropped down,actually a setup way better than the D4,and happy with our decision.Although door pockets are smaller than D4.Niggling warranty issues with the D4 was also a pain,same as every LR we have had,no doubt Defender would have been similar,not one problem with this one so far.

The 130 maybe the go,now,for us but they are very expensive.And...to the extent that an individual cares...the new 130 looks bloody awful to my eyes (before getting to compromised offroading as the wheelbase doesn't change despite 130 nomenclature and price). Cheers

[one_iota]

I get the capacity thing.

There is no doubt that I'll be scaling back. My current Defender is filled with stuff I have forgotten I had...things that might be useful one day.

I'm often saying to people who need something "I probably have one of those in the back of the Land Rover".

In future they'll have to bring their own "something".

[PJJ]

As Oscott says, the 130 doesn't look right.
I'm not sure which way I will go yet. Part of me says suck it up & work on it, (especially after waiting 10 mths to get it) and then something says get a D4 again. Dunno!

Phil

[shack]

The only thing I'm thinking on the 110 vs 130 looks, is that the 110 looks amazing in photos, but in real life they look a bit short, maybe the 130 will look better in real life than it does in pics?

Has anyone actually seen one in the flesh, I wasn't aware they were actually available yet...

[spudfan]

I had a work van, a small van, which had the spare underneath and it was not at all user friendly. Who ever designs these things never uses them in the real world. It is all very well to test something under factory conditions but real life usage is a different ball game. With all of the crud and dirt that collects below a vehicle, not to mention off road crap, just adds to the misery of changing a wheel on a wet day. Trying to refit a wheel in the cradle beneath the van was even worse than getting it off the cradle. The door mounted spare may not be ideal but it is straight forward to remove/refit. If I were in the market for a new vehicle an underbody mounted spare would weigh against my choice of vehicle.

[ATH]

I checked out the 110 yesterday but wasn't impressed with space inside the rear door. To fit the Engel would take up most of it as it would have to be sited in the middle of the opening and that restricts room for my other stuff. Could locate it inside the rear passenger door I suppose but then would have to remove it after every trip.
I fitted a hand winch on the RWC on the D4 to assist with removal/replacement of the wheel but no room behind the 110s wheel to do that.
I sort of liked the D300 but after thinking about it and as the Cook tells me she doesn't like it; I don't reckon I'll get one. Indy reckons our D4 drives great and is in top nick so I think I'm sticking with it and fingers crossed the engine doesn't crap itself.
AlanH.

PS. Or maybe an outdated Prado with a flat barn door at the back and wheel underneath.