Too tight on GVM

[Poida4x4]

I posted a while ago discussing the idea of removing my auxiliary tank and swing away wheel carrier to reduce weight. (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/286252-removing-lr-tank-reduce-weight.html) The thread was pretty unanimous that this wasn't a great idea because having the extra fuel is really handy, and I agree. The other day though I went to the weigh bridge and as at 2.9t. That was with me and my 4yo and less than 1/4 tank of fuel. Maybe 10L of water in a tank. Some recovery gear. Otherwise empty. It doesn't take much to make up that spare 300kg with a full regular tank, my wife, my 6yo, and the ball weight of the camper trailer, so I have to do something.

My accessory list is;


Bull bar with Runva 11XP winch and spotties
2nd battery
ARB compressor in the engine bay
LR snorkel
Rock sliders
50L water tank behind the middle row seats
Cargo barrier
Rear seats removed
Frontrunner auxiliary fuel tank
Swing away wheel carrier
Ladder
Mitch Hitch


I reckon removing the auxiliary tank and rear wheel carrier and going back to stock would be my best bang for buck. I can carry 40L of fuel easily on the camper trailer. I know it's more of a pain to use but I won't use it much. And not having to swing the wheel out of the way to get into the boot would be excellent.

I'm also really tempted to get rid of the bull bar. It is really comforting cruising along at night with it there, but I reckon I can accept the risk of not having it for the driving I do. I've driven all over WA with and without a bull bar and never had any trouble. The wildlife here in Tassie certainly isn't a bother. It's prolific, but small (and I've managed to miss it all). If I removed the bull bar, I'd get a cradle and fit a hidden winch.

Being well under GVM is pretty appealing for just general loading up, and maybe vehicle handling too. I know it seems strange to remove accessories like these, but I bought this car for it's service history and condition, not its accessories.

How does this all sound to you?

[Graeme]

Do you really need the winch and rock sliders?

[josh.huber]

I'm in a similar boat, steel tuff ants with 18's, Rock sliders, small dual Battery, roof rack to hold solar and a shovel. I scratch my head. It's the modern day worry I think.

I'm going to remove the seats and put in a single drawer, I've got a 40l fridge and a water bladder that's hangs off the cargo barrier. The trouble is I am about to put on a bar and winch.

I am heading off to Fraser soon. So as not to be to heavy on the rear axle and just bog, I'm trying to get only light and fluffy pantry items and pillows etc in the rear and put everything in boxes under the bed of the camper trailer to get the ball weight to something reasonable.

To answer your question. I've never needed the extra tank. Always wanted one.
Plus for the tank I'd need the rear bar which I've never wanted. They look great but are not practical for us and the way we use the car.

When I'm away in always towing something so I'll throw a Jerry on that, my 2c worth

[ozscott]

I wouldn't do any very difficult offroading without genuine sill protection. I have never had a winch but make sure I can self recover without it. I have never needed winching even at Cape York but saying that now I am bound to need one next time I go out [emoji1787]. Depends to how much solo offroading you do. If I did a lot solo I would likely fit one. Cheers

[scarry]

For me,i would leave the bar,take a hand winch if you want,probably fit in the camper?
I know they are not as convenient,and heavy,but probably lighter than one fitted in the bar.
How often would you actually use one,as others have said?
Although i did use ours a few times,and it did get us out of the trouble,but i only take it on some trips?

Its nice to have a large fuel tank,(dont know if i could live without one any more),but you do want to lose weight,so i would get rid of that and the rear bar.That is a heap of weight gone.

We didnt tow,but loaded,touring,we were often right on the weight limit,but i never worried about it.

[John_D4]

You’ll find that the winch and bulbar will act as a counterweight on the rear axle load. A friend went through this recently when they decided to do full time touring. He sold his steel rims and bought aluminium runs from Tuff and due to the weight savings.

Do you actually need the tire carrier and long range fuel tank? When I go remote I normally have the camper and it holds 2 Jerry cans that I use a portable electric pump to fill the car with (saves my back), and I have 1 Jerry can in the car. A lot of people suggest just carrying a tire carcass on the roof rack. Most farms will have the changing apparatus, and that way you don’t have to wait days for the tyre fitter to get one in.

[Poida4x4]

Do you really need the winch and rock sliders?

The rock sliders, I reckon yes. I think they're more likely to save my bacon offroading in Tassie than a bull bar.

The winch? I dunno. I think so. It's easy to get stuck here in Tassie, and when we're on tour we're alone, and it gives me confidence that I'd be able to get unstuck way more easily with it than without it.

Thanks for the other input so far

[gavinwibrow]

I posted a while ago discussing the idea of removing my auxiliary tank and swing away wheel carrier to reduce weight. (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/286252-removing-lr-tank-reduce-weight.html) The thread was pretty unanimous that this wasn't a great idea because having the extra fuel is really handy, and I agree. The other day though I went to the weigh bridge and as at 2.9t. That was with me and my 4yo and less than 1/4 tank of fuel. Maybe 10L of water in a tank. Some recovery gear. Otherwise empty. It doesn't take much to make up that spare 300kg with a full regular tank, my wife, my 6yo, and the ball weight of the camper trailer, so I have to do something.

My accessory list is;


Bull bar with Runva 11XP winch and spotties
2nd battery
ARB compressor in the engine bay
LR snorkel
Rock sliders
50L water tank behind the middle row seats
Cargo barrier
Rear seats removed
Frontrunner auxiliary fuel tank
Swing away wheel carrier
Ladder
Mitch Hitch


I reckon removing the auxiliary tank and rear wheel carrier and going back to stock would be my best bang for buck. I can carry 40L of fuel easily on the camper trailer. I know it's more of a pain to use but I won't use it much. And not having to swing the wheel out of the way to get into the boot would be excellent.

I'm also really tempted to get rid of the bull bar. It is really comforting cruising along at night with it there, but I reckon I can accept the risk of not having it for the driving I do. I've driven all over WA with and without a bull bar and never had any trouble. The wildlife here in Tassie certainly isn't a bother. It's prolific, but small (and I've managed to miss it all). If I removed the bull bar, I'd get a cradle and fit a hidden winch.

Being well under GVM is pretty appealing for just general loading up, and maybe vehicle handling too. I know it seems strange to remove accessories like these, but I bought this car for it's service history and condition, not its accessories.

How does this all sound to you?

Agree 100% with your logic Our first D4 had all that gear and more, current D4 has only snorkel, CB, side steps, twin batteries and a pair of LR surf racks and manages perfectly well. Only have to think a little more about fuel stops when pulling the 3.5T brick in isolated areas.

[josh.huber]

I agree, I don't go anywhere as much as I should. I feel that with the self recovery option I'll try a bit more

[Tombie]

Consider the B6 ballistic suspension upgrade, then go see an engineer and have the GVM increased to 4,000kg [emoji3]

For the record. Mines 3.08t with me and a full tank of juice.
I have bar, winch, sliders, 6 seats, fridge, Aux tank, sliders and rear wheel carrier.

Add wife and a bit of gear and we run close to std GVM.

For long trips we only fill the Aux tank “out of town” and transfer immediately. GVM upgrade is in the works.

[DiscoJeffster]

Consider the B6 ballistic suspension upgrade, then go see an engineer and have the GVM increased to 4,000kg [emoji3]

For the record. Mines 3.08t with me and a full tank of juice.
I have bar, winch, sliders, 6 seats, fridge, Aux tank, sliders and rear wheel carrier.

Add wife and a bit of gear and we run close to std GVM.

For long trips we only fill the Aux tank “out of town” and transfer immediately. GVM upgrade is in the works.

Ballistic or Bilstein? [emoji4]

[kelvo]

Ballistic or Bilstein? [emoji4]
Definitely ballistic.

[Tombie]

Ballistic or Bilstein? [emoji4]

Ballistic B6 Armoured version

[goingbush]

Replace your batteries with Lithium , that will save 50Kg straight away , If your winch cable is steel replace with Synthetic, theres another 30kg . The amount of un-nescessary crap we tend to carry due to marketing influences is ridiculous. Less is more .

[DiscoJeffster]

Ballistic B6 Armoured version

Link?

[Tombie]

Link?

Rimmer Bros sell the stuff

[Briar]

Rimmer Bros sell the stuff

Hey Tombie

Thanks for that. Went to Rimmer Bros. About $1600 for each corner. Still might be worth it for GVM if you only need the 4 air bags/ shocks and not other bits. However, for the Rear ones it says they are a "restricted item" and can't be sent overseas. Not a problem for front ones it seems. If the "restriction" can be overcome it might be enough to only upgrade the rear ones as it's the rear axle loading that will get you every time. Can you run standard air bags front and Ballistic rear?

Have you done some further enquiries about this? Thanks.

[Jpdv]

Be interested to hear what the ride would be like as well. The B6 armoured Disco is about 3.5T empty, so they will be 'firm', to say the least... If properly done (and LR's armouring team are good), they'll be designed for a normal load of about 4.5T - vehicle, passengers, driver/bodyguard, various bits of kit, and capable of some high speed evasive manoeuvring at that weight. At somewhere around 3T with just you in the vehicle with bullbar, winch etc, it might be harsh. Of course (just thinking out loud here) were one to get the GVM uprated with them all fitted, and then (say) revert to just leaving the heavy duty LCAs on, who would ever know? Just musing, you understand. [bigwhistle]

[Briar]

Be interested to hear what the ride would be like as well. The B6 armoured Disco is about 3.5T empty, so they will be 'firm', to say the least... If properly done (and LR's armouring team are good), they'll be designed for a normal load of about 4.5T - vehicle, passengers, driver/bodyguard, various bits of kit, and capable of some high speed evasive manoeuvring at that weight. At somewhere around 3T with just you in the vehicle with bullbar, winch etc, it might be harsh. Of course (just thinking out loud here) were one to get the GVM uprated with them all fitted, and then (say) revert to just leaving the heavy duty LCAs on, who would ever know? Just musing, you understand. [bigwhistle]

I emailed Rimmers in the UK last night about is it possible to get the Ballistic Air Struts for a D4 sent to Australia. Received a reply from a "Gordon" at Rimmers. Simply stated they will not export the Ballistic suspension to Australia or anywhere.

I'm in the dark as to why. Whether there is some "secret squirrel" business associated with this or no. Can you get it anywhere else? Maybe Tombie has special contacts because if Rimmers could be persuaded or some one else can supply, I would think that there might be enough on this group to do a group buy?

[scarry]

Be interested to hear what the ride would be like as well. The B6 armoured Disco is about 3.5T empty, so they will be 'firm', to say the least... If properly done (and LR's armouring team are good), they'll be designed for a normal load of about 4.5T - vehicle, passengers, driver/bodyguard, various bits of kit, and capable of some high speed evasive manoeuvring at that weight. At somewhere around 3T with just you in the vehicle with bullbar, winch etc, it might be harsh. Of course (just thinking out loud here) were one to get the GVM uprated with them all fitted, and then (say) revert to just leaving the heavy duty LCAs on, who would ever know? Just musing, you understand. [bigwhistle]

If it's rated anywhere near 4.5T,its going to need more than just new struts at a guess.

[Tombie]

It’s rated at 4,000kg. 3,500kg with a 500kg payload.

Comprises Cast arms, updated dampers in the bags, heavier sway bars with different mountings.

The B6 D4s have 6 pot front brakes and larger rotors as well - designed to stop as good as the standard versions.

[flotty1974]

Hey Tombie

Thanks for that. Went to Rimmer Bros. About $1600 for each corner. Still might be worth it for GVM if you only need the 4 air bags/ shocks and not other bits. However, for the Rear ones it says they are a "restricted item" and can't be sent overseas. Not a problem for front ones it seems. If the "restriction" can be overcome it might be enough to only upgrade the rear ones as it's the rear axle loading that will get you every time. Can you run standard air bags front and Ballistic rear?

Have you done some further enquiries about this? Thanks.

Would it be best to get a UK friend to take possession and send on or a secondary sender like you do with US Amazon?? I'm following your post. With a kaymar rear bar, long ranger tank and front Opposite Lock bar with winch. I'm sailing close to the wind as well. 4000kg GVM would be just piece of mind.

[Macadamia]

Even if you get them here, I doubt you'll find anyone to certify such a bespoke GVM upgrade. Police and Insurance are not going to recognise it nor accept "but I have ballistic airbags!" so you're still going to run into legal and insurance problems.

I imagine - in addition to the heavier duty bags and everything else Toombie mentioned, you'll also have to upgrade the compressor? and/or a large number of the EAS components to deal with the constant higher pressures. The issue I ran into doing Cape York near over GVM was the compressor couldn't keep up. It has to run high pressure to offset the weight and I had a day where it would overheat and cut out after a few hours of tough track leaving me cresting a hill, the nose touching the ground and having to have a coffee break while it cools down enough to re-inflate the front bags.

Even if it were possible to get all the parts I recon you'd be looking at well over $10,000. lot of money to sink into a car that may blow it's crank at any moment [bigrolf]

While I love the car to bits, it has taken me all over Australia, everywhere the 79 in our convoy has gone but in comfort and style... I would argue if your setup and payload are frequently putting you over GVM then perhaps a D4 is not the most appropriate vehicle for your application. or consider other ways to carry your payload like a small offroad trailer/camper.

[Tombie]

Nope, just the bags, bushes and knuckles for the upgrade.
A qualified and recognised engineer can then sign it off and you can get your mod plate.

I have all the parts listed down - no need to upgrade mine just yet.

[Odysseyman]

I would be having a very close look at your rear axle loading once you have the camper attached.

David

[Briar]

Nope, just the bags, bushes and knuckles for the upgrade.
A qualified and recognised engineer can then sign it off and you can get your mod plate.

I have all the parts listed down - no need to upgrade mine just yet.

What did you do to overcome Rimmers' policy that they will not sent the Rear ballistic suspension to any overseas location? Can you post the parts list please?

I agree with you that an appropriate engineer should be able to issue a mod plate to give an upgraded GVM. This is something I will check on with an engineer I have spoken to at Orange in NSW to confirm that if I got the B6 (Ballistic suspension), he would consider that as an appropriate suspension upgrade.

My concern initially is: How are you going to get it to Australia if Rimmers won't send it? Is this a potential "group buy" arrangement that could be made? Thanks.

[veebs]

What did you do to overcome Rimmers' policy that they will not sent the Rear ballistic suspension to any overseas location? Can you post the parts list please?


A freight forwarder may be able to help?

[Briar]

A freight forwarder may be able to help?

Quite possibly. I was curious as to what Tombie was considering doing. I think there are a few who would consider this kind of upgrade (esp anyone towing), so maybe Tombie has contacts at Rimmers (or elsewhere) and a group buy might be the go? I'd be in I think.

[Tombie]

Quite possibly. I was curious as to what Tombie was considering doing. I think there are a few who would consider this kind of upgrade (esp anyone towing), so maybe Tombie has contacts at Rimmers (or elsewhere) and a group buy might be the go? I'd be in I think.

I have family in the UK. [emoji12]