Should I sell the D2a and buy a D3?

[Davetd5]

Hi Folks, am I mad to try and buy a D3 TDV6 for $15k ?
The old girl thinks its time to get rid of the other old girl (D2a) as she's finding it too bumpy and clunky at 370,000km as her daily driver. Once we sell the Td5 we can only scrape together $15k to upgrade to a D3 in the 230,000km - 250,000km range.
I'm a former mechanic so I'm happy to replace suspension parts etc as needed, but will a 2.7L engine last the same mileage as the td5, or would it need a Territory motor put in soon? Seems to be lots of stories of broken cranks and chucked rods out there.
Any other expensive things to factor in?
Thanks Dave

[DieselLSE]

Dave, as you're a mechanic you probably don't need to be told this, but let me pretend that my elderly age has bestowed some wisdom upon me...
You're not buying a $15k vehicle, you're buying a $100k vehicle with (what was) state of the art cutting edge 4WD technology with all the high price parts and complicated servicing that a new model comes with. And you're getting it after almost 20 years of various previous owners who may or may not have driven and serviced it in a way that would ensure a long and healthy life.
Personally, I wouldn't buy anything before the 8 speed 2013 D4 model as, by then, most of the bugs had been discovered and remedied.
However, the D3/4 is the closest thing to a perfect 4WD in my opinion. Whilst the spare wheel location and 19" wheels are daft, they are easily remedied. Custom designed accessories are readily available. There's no reason why a D3/4 with timely servicing and immediate attention to any issues can't last indefinitely. If a well serviced 2.7 is still running, then there's no reason why it shouldn't continue to do so.
Just take your time and buy the best mechanically sound vehicle you can find.
Good luck.

[loanrangie]

Nothing wrong with a good D3 if the major issue items are addressed like the oil pump, I have seen some nice go for around 15k but most with lowish mileage are still closer to 20k.
There is a kitted out one on Facebook for 15k that on face value looks like a good buy.

[maxperformance]

I was in the same position for a few years. I have had 3 different D2, D2a both Auto and Manual, both S and HSE models and now a D3 TDV6 S 05 Manual gearbox with air-suspension. So I can share something with you (although I am still in early time with the D3):

D2A Pros and Cons:
- Engine sound, the TD5 engine sound is something your heart and your ears would love it to death, but in my case my wife stays on the opposite side.
- Simple. So simple and can be serviced by yourself anywhere on the go. And parts are cheap and ready.
- Reliable. My D2A is crazy reliable. It was non-stop motoring for the last 100k km I had owned it. It could tow 3.5T in the hottest day/coldest day and run whole days without any small issue except it is slow. Frankly it will tow anything up to 2T to keep up 110km/h comfortably. More than 2T you are a snail on the road in many sections.
- Classic character look/shape.

D3 Pros and Cons:
- Stronger, yes, it is noticeably stronger than a D2A
- Quieter, yes, too quite. I hate this but my wife loves this. I might have to deactivate the silencer because too quiet.
- Roomier. Yes, it has much better seat space and feeling inside.
- Drinks about 20% less fuel than a D2A (Diesel and Manual in my case of comparison)
- A bit more modern look inside/outside. I do not mind this but my wife and the kids like the interior.
- I can not comment about reliability of a D3 atm but I am sure the spend on this car would be much higher than the D2A in the future, that's what it was designed for anyway.
- I haven't towed anything yet but reckon it would be much more comfortable when towing 3.5T with this D3, and my 2T caravan now should be considered nothing behind the D3.

For example: right before the pickup of this D3, I had to spend $2k to replace the oil pump and gasket. While with the D2A none I had to spend more than $400 at a time for service/or replacement.

Anyway, my decision to purchase the D3 because:
- My need of towing a 3.5T boat comfortably (sometime), and towing the 2T caravan (well the D2 does this one like a piece of cake)
- My wife and my little girl's push (this is stronger than any kind of push behind the tow hitch that you might experience)

And we are all happy now with the D3. Good luck with your choice.

[Narangga]

Hi Folks, am I mad to try and buy a D3 TDV6 for $15k ?

No but be prepared to show much patience and most likely have deep pockets as you repair things.



I'm a former mechanic so I'm happy to replace suspension parts etc as needed, but will a 2.7L engine last the same mileage as the td5, or would it need a Territory motor put in soon? Seems to be lots of stories of broken cranks and chucked rods out there.

The 2.7, as loanrangie says, are more prone to suffer oil pump housing failures. The broken cranks are more often in the 3.0. However like any vehicle it will have issues unless it has been meticulously maintained (as you know from you mechanical experience). There are many D3's around with as many or more kms than your D2 and they are still going strong. D3's in 2005 & 2006 were EU3 standard and the 2007 - 2009 were EU4. all can take a Territory motor but the 07 - 09 do it more easily.


Any other expensive things to factor in?

Air struts at that age would need replacing if not already done. I bought mine 3 years ago and got them from the UK for $1600 but I don't know what they would be now. TRS at Lonsdale would be your closest place for spares such as diffs, transfer case or even things like a steering rack that needed replacing on mine.

Like all second hand vehicles it will be a case of 'caveat emptor'. Also spares/parts are most likely to cost more than those for your D2.

[PerthDisco]

At the age and kms of D3 being considered there’d be a long laundry list of work completed otherwise it wouldn’t be running or there would be major issues.

Lower Control Arms (service item)
Oil pump (engine killer pre 08)
Oil cooler (contaminates coolant and fills valley)
Timing Belt (like any car)
Brake Booster
Air Compressor (service item)
Air Valves (service item)
Gearbox (well serviced or replaced to last this long)
Air struts (very possible originals still ok)

Car would be really nasty and full of warning lights without these fixed or replaced.

My 08 has suffered from no inherent technical issues supposedly fixed after 12.

Such electronic gremlins only existed in 05 06 as with early diff failure. Canbus was updated in 07 with EU4 update with only the oil pump being the last major gremlin fixed in 08.

Can’t think of anything else mechanical or suspension that got better or majorly revamped outside the change to 3.0/8 speed.

Door locks, EPB all same. Probably all now full or partially replaced anyway.

On other hand simplicity of a pov pack SE with extra storage pockets in dash is quite nice. Single turbo and manifolds that don’t crack.

[twr7cx]

Depends. Depends on what you want from it. We have an MY03 D2a HSE Td5 (near the end of the D2 run and top trim spec) and an MY12 D4 TDV6. They're different cars. The D2 with ACE is the superior handler. The D4 is by all respects the better vehicle - safer, quieter, smoother, more powerful, better brakes, more room, better economy etc. but it's a bit more boring as well. Which is great as I prefer the D2a and get to drive that while the wife takes the D4 that she loves!



Personally, I wouldn't buy anything before the 8 speed 2013 D4 model as, by then, most of the bugs had been discovered and remedied.

I disagree. The early 8 speeds and 3.0L bring a bunch of new problems. If I was going for the 3.0L and 8 speed I'd only be looking at the final years of D4 production.
Personally we went for an MY12 TDV6 specifically because it's the very last of the 2.7L TDV6 engine and 6 speed automatic transmission. By this stage it had been used for eight years in D3, RRS, Ford Territory TDCi and other various applications. It has improvements to sort it throughout those years for the final year is the most sorted. Also easy to source parts for. Plus, as you say these were expensive vehicles when new - the simpler 2.7 single turbo has less to go wrong and have money spent on than a twin turbo 3.0L.
The ZF 6HP is similair - VWs, Ford, BMW, Porsche, etc. for the same or longer time frame so again super common and refinements over the time.
With a Bell Auto Service ECU map and EGR disable ours is not short on power or torque while returning 10L/100km as the main family vehicle.



However, the D3/4 is the closest thing to a perfect 4WD in my opinion. Whilst the spare wheel location and 19" wheels are daft...

By following the above you'd at least not have one of those problems as it would be riding on 18" from factory...

[Davetd5]

Thanks for the replies folks, its helps us to make an informed decision when we have an idea about what to expect.
Our approach has always been to buy the vehicle we like and fix whatever goes wrong, so I think we'll do the same here and buy a D3 (seeing as we don't have to pay for labour).
Thanks again.
Dave

[Davetd5]

Sold the D2 for $6k today and put an offer on a 2008 TDV6 HSE. More than I wanted to pay at $22k but it ticks all the boxes for us.
Thanks for the replies.
Dave??? (formerly known as DaveTd5)

[JDNSW]

Dave,

Thanks for telling us what you decided. Looking forward to your experiences in the future.

[veebs]

Congrats on the upgrade DaveD3, hope she serves you well!