What does your insurance cover?

[V8Ian]

It's amazing how insurance companies can wriggle out of paying claims, but are quick to take your money.

https://youtu.be/clpz4FD3he0

[350RRC]

The two images on the vid cover give a clue of how to cover yr arse with a total loss.

Make sure you have a couple of full jerrys and a box of matches at all times when beach driving. [bigwhistle][bighmmm]

DL

[V8Ian]

I was thinking along similar lines, but it's a bit hard to explain how a car caught fire when it was door handle deep in sloppy mud.[bigwhistle]

[Saitch]

I was thinking along similar lines, but it's a bit hard to explain how a car caught fire when it was door handle deep in sloppy mud.[bigwhistle]

Seaweed ignited by the DPF, no doubt!

Seriously though, if I was an insurance assessor and some bozo lodged a claim for vehicle damage from attempting say, Gunshot, Mudlo Rocks, or most beaches and creeks at high tide, I know what I'd be thinking and quite possibly be saying. In the nicest manner possible, of course.

[DiscoMick]

That's an interesting video from Ronny Dahl and raises a lot of valid points. Real can of worms.
For example, we saw a bloke take a hired Troopy over Gunshot and cause some damage. Pretty sure vehicle hire contracts would not cover that and he would not be insured. He would probably claim it happened somewhere else.
Last time I checked I was told we were covered if where we were was shown on a map, but what does that mean? Not covered on a farm? Do you have to get the vehicle to a point where a two-wheel drive recovery truck can reach it?
Is the vehicle covered if the assessor finds the EGR or DPF have been bypassed?
Assessors are there to save the companies money, not make life easy for vehicle owners.
Bet there are a lot of people out there who might get a shock if they claimed.

[RANDLOVER]

I was thinking along similar lines, but it's a bit hard to explain how a car caught fire when it was door handle deep in sloppy mud.[bigwhistle]

Perhaps the owner shot up a flare to be rescued, but forgot to get out of the vehicle?

[RANDLOVER]

That's an interesting video from Ronny Dahl and raises a lot of valid points. Real can of worms.
For example, we saw a bloke take a hired Troopy over Gunshot and cause some damage. Pretty sure vehicle hire contracts would not cover that and he would not be insured. He would probably claim it happened somewhere else.
Last time I checked I was told we were covered if where we were was shown on a map, but what does that mean? Not covered on a farm? Do you have to get the vehicle to a point where a two-wheel drive recovery truck can reach it?
Is the vehicle covered if the assessor finds the EGR or DPF have been bypassed?.......
.......

If the EGR or DPF modifications did not contribute to the loss they are immaterial.

[scarry]

If the EGR or DPF modifications did not contribute to the loss they are immaterial.

Maybe not,as the vehicle is not legal,unroadworthy,and shouldnt be on the road.
Most insurance companies do not cover vehicles that are not registered,or registered,but have mods that are not legal.

Although,EGR turned off,blanked,etc,is more difficult to see,than a DPF that has gone missing.

Many also will not recover a vehicle where a 2WD vehicle will not go.

If concerned,read the Disclosure Statement.
I read the Disclosure Statement for Club 4X4,and couldnt believe the things that were not covered in the policy.

We must remember,insurance companies always do their best to try to get out of a claim,that is just the way they work.

[Tombie]

That “4x4” insurance mob has so many “get out of paying” clauses in the PDS it boggles the mind.

I know of two persons who thought everything was good u til they had a vehicle fire. “Fire from aftermarket wiring / accessories isn’t covered” - well prove it wasn’t the factory loom as the entire vehicle went up!

[NavyDiver]

That “4x4” insurance mob has so many “get out of paying” clauses in the PDS it boggles the mind.

I know of two persons who thought everything was good u til they had a vehicle fire. “Fire from aftermarket wiring / accessories isn’t covered” - well prove it wasn’t the factory loom as the entire vehicle went up!


Some insurance reject everything then pay only what they are forced to. Cheap can be cheap and nasty. Reading the fine print is important of course. Legal documents can be as clear a MUD[bigwhistle]

Sister and family got stuck in QLD with Covid case after Covid case several months ago. The Travel Insurance covered the maximum for both adults but not the full amount as the kids while on the policy were combined with mum and dads maximum payment in the fine print [bighmmm] the cost not covered was more than the original holiday!

[DiscoMick]

I read Qld Police are now doing mobile exhaust emissions testing. Fail the test and your registration is suspended until you get another test done which passes. Test must be done within a specified time limit or registration is automatically cancelled. Would that mean insurance is also cancelled as the vehicle is not registered?
Maybe not,as the vehicle is not legal,unroadworthy,and shouldnt be on the road.
Most insurance companies do not cover vehicles that are not registered,or registered,but have mods that are not legal.

Although,EGR turned off,blanked,etc,is more difficult to see,than a DPF that has gone missing.

Many also will not recover a vehicle where a 2WD vehicle will not go.

If concerned,read the Disclosure Statement.
I read the Disclosure Statement for Club 4X4,and couldnt believe the things that were not covered in the policy.

We must remember,insurance companies always do their best to try to get out of a claim,that is just the way they work.

[scarry]

I read Qld Police are now doing mobile exhaust emissions testing. Fail the test and your registration is suspended until you get another test done which passes. Test must be done within a specified time limit or registration is automatically cancelled. Would that mean insurance is also cancelled as the vehicle is not registered?

Probably.

My local mechanic was on about this a while ago,he recons it may evenyually come up on Road Worthys as well.
If it doesnt pass an emissions test as per ADR's,no roadworthy.
If it doesnt pass a roadworthy,it isnt street legal.

That will be the end of any type of tune as well as EGR blanking,etc,etc.

[3toes]

You have to be careful with the text of the policy.

Know someone who had a hire car and hand an accident on the unsealed road (driveway) which was about a km long leading to the house. Not covered as no cover if driven on an unsealed road and driveway not a gazetted road

[Tombie]

Probably.

My local mechanic was on about this a while ago,he recons it may evenyually come up on Road Worthys as well.
If it doesnt pass an emissions test as per ADR's,no roadworthy.
If it doesnt pass a roadworthy,it isnt street legal.

That will be the end of any type of tune as well as EGR blanking,etc,etc.

Interestingly. A tuned TD5 etc will pass the test if done right. However removing any fitted emissions system is an instant fail..

Read it further and fitting aftermarket exhaust is also a non-compliance - to the letter of the law.

Overseas, failure to disclose performance upgrades will also void insurance.

Most 5yr+ old Petrol vehicles fail emissions as the fuel vapour systems and Cats are no longer in spec.

[ozscott]

That “4x4” insurance mob has so many “get out of paying” clauses in the PDS it boggles the mind.

I know of two persons who thought everything was good u til they had a vehicle fire. “Fire from aftermarket wiring / accessories isn’t covered” - well prove it wasn’t the factory loom as the entire vehicle went up! Are you talking Club 4x4 Mike? If so I couldn't see that in their latest PDS on a quick scan. Not sure if it was in an earlier one. The PDS says they do not cover, amongst other things, where

"your vehicle was damaged, unsafe or unroadworthy;
• your vehicle was converted, altered or modified from its manufacturer’s specifications and is no longer roadworthy or legal within the state it is registered and that illegal modification contributed to the claimable event occurring."

Cheers

[RANDLOVER]

Maybe not,as the vehicle is not legal,unroadworthy,and shouldnt be on the road.
Most insurance companies do not cover vehicles that are not registered,or registered,but have mods that are not legal.

Although,EGR turned off,blanked,etc,is more difficult to see,than a DPF that has gone missing.

Many also will not recover a vehicle where a 2WD vehicle will not go.

If concerned,read the Disclosure Statement.
I read the Disclosure Statement for Club 4X4,and couldnt believe the things that were not covered in the policy.

We must remember,insurance companies always do their best to try to get out of a claim,that is just the way they work.

I am not advising making modifications and I'm not denying that Insurers will try and weasel out of a claim, and may even tell people that a claim has been rejected on dubious grounds, but the legal principle stands, that factor/s not contributing to a loss are immaterial, and lawyers may have to get involved, to wit.


Are you talking Club 4x4 .....The PDS says they do not cover, amongst other things, where

"your vehicle was damaged, unsafe or unroadworthy;
• your vehicle was converted, altered or modified from its manufacturer’s specifications and is no longer roadworthy or legal within the state it is registered and that illegal modification contributed to the claimable event occurring."

Cheers

[RANDLOVER]

Maybe not,as the vehicle is not legal,unroadworthy,and shouldnt be on the road.
Most insurance companies do not cover vehicles that are not registered,or registered,but have mods that are not legal.

Although,EGR turned off,blanked,etc,is more difficult to see,than a DPF that has gone missing.

Many also will not recover a vehicle where a 2WD vehicle will not go.

If concerned,read the Disclosure Statement.
I read the Disclosure Statement for Club 4X4,and couldnt believe the things that were not covered in the policy.

We must remember,insurance companies always do their best to try to get out of a claim,that is just the way they work.

I am not advising making modifications and I'm not denying that Insurers will try and weasel out of a claim, and may even tell people that a claim has been rejected on dubious grounds, but the legal principle stands, that factor/s not contributing to a loss are immaterial, and lawyers may have to get involved. People can write any contract they like but that doesn't make it legal, my lawyer had tell an organisation once words to the effect of "your contract is so unreasonable that it will not stand in a court of law".


Are you talking Club 4x4 .....The PDS says they do not cover, amongst other things, where

"your vehicle was damaged, unsafe or unroadworthy;
• your vehicle was converted, altered or modified from its manufacturer’s specifications and is no longer roadworthy or legal within the state it is registered and that illegal modification contributed to the claimable event occurring."

Cheers

[350RRC]

I am not advising making modifications and I'm not denying that Insurers will try and weasel out of a claim, and may even tell people that a claim has been rejected on dubious grounds, but the legal principle stands, that factor/s not contributing to a loss are immaterial, and lawyers may have to get involved. People can write any contract they like but that doesn't make it legal, my lawyer had tell an organisation once words to the effect of "your contract is so unreasonable that it will not stand in a court of law".

Rovercare (Matt) had a bit of experience with 'non stock' and liability due other issues.

I remember his posts, which are searchable on here.

DL

[prelude]

Probably.

My local mechanic was on about this a while ago,he recons it may eventually come up on Road Worthys as well.
If it doesnt pass an emissions test as per ADR's,no roadworthy.
If it doesnt pass a roadworthy,it isnt street legal.

That will be the end of any type of tune as well as EGR blanking,etc,etc.

On this side of the pond they are working on laws like that as well. I do like my petrol over a diesel though, simply because a speeduino or megasquirt can be fed a new fuel map with the flick of a switch. Setting 1: rozzers, setting 2: actually good running car. Of course it's a small button, possibly not in sight :)

I too am not advocating breaking the law or anything but we have come to a point where basic common sense adjustments to vehicles are made impossible by, frankly, not well thought through laws and such so it does make me more... creative :)

-P

[scarry]

On this side of the pond they are working on laws like that as well. I do like my petrol over a diesel though, simply because a speeduino or megasquirt can be fed a new fuel map with the flick of a switch. Setting 1: rozzers, setting 2: actually good running car. Of course it's a small button, possibly not in sight :)

I too am not advocating breaking the law or anything but we have come to a point where basic common sense adjustments to vehicles are made impossible by, frankly, not well thought through laws and such so it does make me more... creative :)

-P

Many of the aftermarket tuners are well into that here,a switch has numerous levels of tune,and a stock setting.
Mainly for Diesels,the V8 Land Cruisers being a large market for them.

[gromit]

When you are with a 'reasonable' insurer, no mods, not your fault how much running around do you have to do yourself.....??

Accident fortunately not far from work, MD came out and emptied the contents of the vehicle (otherwise it's off to the tilt-tray operators yard).
Spoke with insurer, still shaken from the accident, no offer of hire car (took 35minutes to get through to speak with a person).
Wait to speak to VicRoads (they organise the tilt-trays in VIC)
Tilt tray collects vehicle and I'm left to find a way home, our MD came to the rescue again.

Use the Defender (Club Permit) to get to work the next day, 40 minutes on hold to speak to insurer. Hire car organised, colleague picked me up the following morning and took me to the hire company.

Call from body shop 5 days later(bugger, they are repairing rather than replacing), hopefully assessed by the end of the week and they'll know how long to repair.
No communication from insurer so contact them and after a 15minute wait, and some negotiation, extend the hire car period.

I guess I'll be chasing the insurer again once I know how long the repair will take.


Glad I'm not with a cheap insurer !

Colin


Should car insurance be compulsory ? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/292720-should-car-insurance-compulsory.html)

[DiscoMick]

Don't have to get a roadworthy to renew rego in Qld, which might be why there are so many one-eyed cars, so that might be why they are doing random mobile emissions tests instead.

[JDNSW]

Don't have to get a roadworthy to renew rego in Qld, which might be why there are so many one-eyed cars, so that might be why they are doing random mobile emissions tests instead.

Don't have to go to Qld to see one eyed cars! They vary enormously between brands in their frequency of blowing lights. The old citroen I had, I drove for fifteen years, I think, and it still had the original bulbs - my son's Hyundai I30 is guaranteed to blow a headlight bulb at leas st once every couple of months. In the thirty years or so I have been driving the 110, I doubt I have bought as many as five headlight bulbs.

I suspect that part of the issue is the automatic headlights, that are switched on and off far more frequently than in the past.

[scarry]

Don't have to go to Qld to see one eyed cars! They vary enormously between brands in their frequency of blowing lights. The old citroen I had, I drove for fifteen years, I think, and it still had the original bulbs - my son's Hyundai I30 is guaranteed to blow a headlight bulb at leas st once every couple of months. In the thirty years or so I have been driving the 110, I doubt I have bought as many as five headlight bulbs.

I suspect that part of the issue is the automatic headlights, that are switched on and off far more frequently than in the past.

The boys seem to always have blown tail light bulbs in the work utes,it is a frequent PITA.
Yet the vans seem fine,maybe a bulb every few years.
No issues with headlights.

Tyres,don’t go there,flats are also common,we are gradually changing over to higher load rated tyres,so hopefully that will sort them.Tyre trouble is also another PITA.

[V8Ian]

Don't have to go to Qld to see one eyed cars! They vary enormously between brands in their frequency of blowing lights. The old citroen I had, I drove for fifteen years, I think, and it still had the original bulbs - my son's Hyundai I30 is guaranteed to blow a headlight bulb at leas st once every couple of months. In the thirty years or so I have been driving the 110, I doubt I have bought as many as five headlight bulbs.

I suspect that part of the issue is the automatic headlights, that are switched on and off far more frequently than in the past.
John, I suspect your Godess had 35w bulbs. Modern cars are using 55/60w that are often upgraded to 100w +++, or more.
I'd suggest the higher wattage, ergo heat, is the cause of earlier globe failure. My observations, and I have taken notice since DM's last false claim on the subject, is that NSW cars have as many defective lights as Queensland and Victoria.

[JDNSW]

John, I suspect your Godess had 35w bulbs. Modern cars are using 55/60w that are often upgraded to 100w +++, or more.
I'd suggest the higher wattage, ergo heat, is the cause of earlier globe failure. My observations, and I have taken notice since DM's last false claim on the subject, is that NSW cars have as many defective lights as Queensland and Victoria.

The ID I am pretty certain had 45W bulbs, but I suspect you are right about heat being an issue. And also styling is a factor in reduced cooling of the lights in many cases. The I30 though, current models apparently do not suffer from the frequent bulb failures - and they are the same bulb. I am suspicious that the voltage regulation may be a factor.

[BradC]

I am suspicious that the voltage regulation may be a factor.

Incandescent bulbs have a really narrow operating window for maximum life. Variations on voltage, cooling, vibration and even supply impedance all contribute significantly to things moving away from the optimal parameters. A vehicle isn't exactly the most friendly environment for any of those. It becomes even more fragile when you move to the high temperature halogens.

My observation on defective lights is it seems about the same everywhere regardless of whether you live in a State with yearly checks, or WA where you can drive a vehicle that's more rust than car. I pulled up behind a Commodore the other day. No brake lights at all in the rear clusters, about 2 leds left working in the high-mount and a barely visible and rapidly flashing right rear indicator with no operating side marker or front indicator. Not unusual here, but I spotted enough when I was over East also.

[3toes]

The only major study done on the effectiveness of yearly checks found they made no difference long term.

There was an initial impact where people scrapped cars they were worried might not pass or cost too much to pass. There was no follow up on these vehicles to know if was real or imaginary that car would not pass

System of yearly checks is beloved by garages as is way to sell other work to people when they are in the mood to buy. Also by the be seen to be doing something brigade of pressure groups and their enablers

[JDNSW]

comparisons between states with and without annual checks show no measurable difference is accidents or deaths.

Part of this is because there are actually very few accidents where vehicle defects are a contributing factor, and nearly all where it is a contributing factor are faults that are likely to develop in a lot less than a year, with tyre wear and pressure leading. Lights would be there too, except these rarely seem to be a factor.

Another part is that the checks are simply not very effective.