Peering over the P38 fence

[Metoikos13]

Greetings all. As the title suggests I'm thinking about a P38. I've currently got a Disco 2a Td5, with which I'm very happy and I intend to keep, but I've always had a sneaking fancy for the P38. I've come across one locally, a '99 Thor 4.6 HSE, and I'm going to take look at it properly later in the week. So far, I've only been able to look at the body and interior, both of which are in excellent condition. It's a 2 owner car with 370,000 on the clock but I don't know yet if there's any service history. On the downside, it's been sitting in a shed for over 2 years without being started. The owner is going to change oil and filter before I check it over so I can start it up. The rego has long expired so it will have to go over the pits. From reading this forum I've got a pretty good idea of the potential problems that will need fixing so I'm not starting from a position of total ignorance, unlike my first Disco. I was going to get the P38 software for my Nanocom, which is only for the Disco at the moment, but I need the green ODB cable too and no chance of getting that before the weekend. So, 2 questions. Firstly, what would be a reasonable price for such a car? I'm thinkng somewhere between free and $1K depending on how many problems I find. The owner has no idea. Secondly, am I crazy for even thinking about it given that I've got a perfectly good Disco? I should add that I'm fairly competent on the mechanical side of things, having done a lot on my current Disco and the previous one, except for removing transmissions or engines for which I'm too bloody old. Not so good on electronic things but the Nanocom does help here. All comments gratefully received.

Lawrence

[prelude]

Lawrence,

Good for you for peering! :)

Personally, I would take the chance if you can do a lot yourself, however, some critical parts are becoming unobtainium like the viscous coupling unit in the transfer case. If they seize or otherwise give up, there are no new ones available and ashcroft who used to provide rebuild units no longer have those in stock either. No VCU is a bit of a show stopper, though if they are locked up you can always remove the front prop and drive it as RWD only.

A recent thread on the forum has suggested that rover V8's can run up to 500k's but it is fair to say that at 370k the V8 will most likely need some attention. These engines had the dropping liners problem but with that kind of mileage perhaps that has already been fixed or it has one of the very few engines without that particular problem (then it's a keeper for sure).

The ZF gearbox can go a long time without a rebuild so depending on how it was driven (lots of towing and such) should not be a huge risk. Also, those can be rebuild still without too much hassle.

Chances are the EAS components have perished and need replacing which is a DIY job that is quite some work but doable.

YMMV but if it is a good looker and has a decent service history, it might make a nice project car. Just expect some items that need replacing to be only available from the wreckers.

Cheers,
-P

[shack]

I nearly bought one recently, the only thing that stopped me buying it was knowing that they are possessed by Lord Lucas.

They are an electronic/electrical nightmare.

But I still want one..

[Metoikos13]

Thanks for the replies folks. It will all depend on my check over at the end of the week but if I can get it for nothing, which is quite possible as the owner wants to get rid of it, as long as it runs and there is nothing obviously major I'll take it. It would make a good project and I've spent enough time working on and under the Discos not to be frightened of most things other than taking out a gearbox. So, all will become clearer (or perhaps not) at the weekend. Anyway, I'll let you know what the outcome is.

[Metoikos13]

Well, I guess I'll have to keep on peering as I'm not crazy enough to take this one on. It's been lying around for nearly 3 years and the only good parts are the body and interior which are really good. However, it was put off the road when a coolant hose split when the owner's kid was driving it and it was towed home. Engine starts but, with no coolant in it, impossible to tell anything so I'm assuming it's cooked. Pity, because it had a new short motor fitted 120k ago. No way to check any of the other potential issues such as the viscous coupling but heater had been bypassed and HEVAC didn't seem to be working at all. Such is life and thanks for your input.

[shack]

Thanks for the update, I've never driven one but would like the opportunity, I do believe they are a massive headache to own though.

[chuck]

Metoikos

Might be worth grabbing if it is cheap enough.

Bought a 3 litre patrol a while ago which everyone had said blown the motor.

Turned out to be the turbo which we replaced for a few hundred dollars second hand.

Bought a $10,000 car for $500 because the owner wanted off his front lawn

if cheap enough take it home replace hoses put in coolant see what happens.

[PhilipA]

I wouldn't. If it's been overheated then a monty that liner has slipped, and or cracked block behind liner has caused the liner to slip.The 4.6 engines were better than the 4.0 as they were Xrayed to check that the liners were central to the block as there is so little alloy left between cylinders. The Blocks were graded with the best for 4.6, but they are still bad. And everthing else in the engine would need replacing such as cam lifters oil pump.It all adds up to a pretty penny and if you could buy a good one for say $8000 then I reckon you would be ahead. Regards PhilipA

[gavinwibrow]

I wouldn't. If it's been overheated then a monty that liner has slipped, and or cracked block behind liner has caused the liner to slip.The 4.6 engines were better than the 4.0 as they were Xrayed to check that the liners were central to the block as there is so little alloy left between cylinders. The Blocks were graded with the best for 4.6, but they are still bad. And everthing else in the engine would need replacing such as cam lifters oil pump.It all adds up to a pretty penny and if you could buy a good one for say $8000 then I reckon you would be ahead. Regards PhilipA



No interest in trying to track down an engine from a wrecked P38 - surely they must be around?

[Metoikos13]

What it comes down to folks, is that I don't have the time, the space or the possible money to take this thing on. It really is a potential money pit with lots of other problems I haven't detailed. I'll go back to improving the Disco. Also, the wife would kill me if I brought it home[bighmmm].

[Hoges]

I nearly bought one recently, the only thing that stopped me buying it was knowing that they are possessed by Lord Lucas.

They are an electronic/electrical nightmare.

But I still want one..

#"For what It's worth" The Thor engine upgrade brought with it all Bosch electrics with the EFI being Bosch Motronic -the same as in the 3-Series BMW of that era...
Good luck with your search! [thumbsupbig]

[shack]

#"For what It's worth" The Thor engine upgrade brought with it all Bosch electrics with the EFI being Bosch Motronic -the same as in the 3-Series BMW of that era...
Good luck with your search! [thumbsupbig]Thanks for that.

I think that most of the electrical issues were in every other system!

[RANDLOVER]

Well, I guess I'll have to keep on peering as I'm not crazy enough to take this one on. It's been lying around for nearly 3 years and the only good parts are the body and interior which are really good. However, it was put off the road when a coolant hose split when the owner's kid was driving it and it was towed home. Engine starts but, with no coolant in it, impossible to tell anything so I'm assuming it's cooked. Pity, because it had a new short motor fitted 120k ago. No way to check any of the other potential issues such as the viscous coupling but heater had been bypassed and HEVAC didn't seem to be working at all. Such is life and thanks for your input.

If anyone else is peering I know of a white P38 that formed part of a deceased estate, IIRC all it needs are welch plugs.

[Tins]

If anyone else is peering I know of a white P38 that formed part of a deceased estate, IIRC all it needs are welch plugs.

Or an LS.

[PhilipA]

IIRC all it needs are welch plugs.
Famous last words.
Regards PhilipA

[ozscott]

Famous last words.
Regards PhilipAI was thinking the same thing [emoji1787]. Cheers

[rar110]

If anyone else is peering I know of a white P38 that formed part of a deceased estate, IIRC all it needs are welch plugs.

In Brisbane?

[rar110]

Or an LS.

Or an OM606, 612 … with a ZF 6hp or S6-53.

I know I’m dreaming.

[RANDLOVER]

In Brisbane?
Yes Brisbane outer suburbs.

[Tins]

I know I’m dreaming.

My dreaming started at Wombat around 10 years ago when I got a lift in a 38 with an LS. It was so effortless. Usually i'm a bit of a purist, but IMO the P38/LS is almost perfect. Still, i have found myself wondering if a Barra might fit....

[RANDLOVER]

My dreaming started at Wombat around 10 years ago when I got a lift in a 38 with an LS. It was so effortless. Usually i'm a bit of a purist, but IMO the P38/LS is almost perfect. Still, i have found myself wondering if a Barra might fit....

I still think the perfect Rangie would have a V12 option.

[Tins]

I still think the perfect Rangie would have a V12 option.

In keeping with the known reliability of the cars the Jaguar 5.3 might be appropriate.

[prelude]

In keeping with the known reliability of the cars the Jaguar 5.3 might be appropriate.

not sure if sarcasm :) But yeah a jag V12 would do nicely. Thing is, de BMW 7 series (the old ones) came with a V12 lump mated to the same autobox that the P38 has so that might be easier to fit. If I weren't starting my RTW trip I would certainly be looking into building something like that!

-P

[PhilipA]

BMW made a couple of prototypes. They had to lengthen the front clip and guards.
It looks a bit strange.
Regards PhilipA

[Tins]

not sure if sarcasm :) But yeah a jag V12 would do nicely. Thing is, de BMW 7 series (the old ones) came with a V12 lump mated to the same autobox that the P38 has so that might be easier to fit. If I weren't starting my RTW trip I would certainly be looking into building something like that!

-P

There was some sarcasm, tongue in cheek, there. The Jag 5.3 was a truly magnificent engine, let down by all the same things that let down the whole British auto industry at the time.

As for the BMW, do you mean the M70? It would be nice....

[PhilipA]

Now this is one you should consider. Looks to have springs but wheels are cheap as.
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Regards PhilipA

[RANDLOVER]

If anyone else is peering I know of a white P38 that formed part of a deceased estate, IIRC all it needs are welch plugs.

The aforementioned P38 recently sold for $8000.