Shuttle valves

[DiscoMick]

Here's a little experience I had today, just in case it is helpful.
The ABS and TC lights stayed on after startup on our 2009 Defender 110 on Sunday.
Long story short, I ended up at a local garage today which had a code reader for our Puma Defender.
The reader said 'shuttle valve' and refused to clear.
So the mechanic rang a supplier and asked a price for a Puma shuttle valve, which was $4000!!!
Deep breath.
Then the supplier said TD5 shuttle valves also work on Defenders and were - wait for it - only (?) $1000!
Another breath, not quite so deep.
Then the mechanic asked if I ever slammed on the brakes really hard. I said I tried to avoid emergency braking.
'Give me the keys', he said, jumped in roared off, and did half a dozen full on emergency brake stops around the block.
Came back, and said 'All fixed, lights are off, I can hear the ABS working'. Demonstrated again and I could hear it working too.
So he saved me $1000 and I was happy to pay him the requested $55 for his time.
Turns out he and his wife are Landy nuts, have 6 Discoverys behind their workshop and she really wanted him to buy a Defender like ours, after she rolled her Disco.
So I've booked in to get the front brakes done later this month.
So if your ABS and TC lights come on, maybe that will help.
Clearly I need to stop driving like a granny and slam on the brakes more often!

[DazzaTD5]

That is a very rare fault for a Defender, I have not even had that on a last model Defender classic (2007 - 2016).
In all my years... I have had prolly 3 Defender TD5 with that fault.
BTW... a Discovery 2 ABS unit will work. We learnt that from Justin Cooper (tassie indy Land Rover mech)

Did anyone do a moisture test on the brake fluid? I suspect it might be well past due.

[Slunnie]

How hard do you need to slam on the brakes?
Is it the high brake pressure that gets it all moving again or is it the ABS getting triggered?
ie Can you just do it on your gravel driveway or does it need to be on a dry high traction road?

Great tip if I throw that fault though.

[DiscoMick]

Glad to hear its an unusual fault.
I was expecting it to be a wheel sensor, but not so.
No, no test on the brake fluid.
The mechanic just slammed on the brakes on concrete roadway.
His comment was everything needs to be operated occasionally or it might stick. I guess it's like shifting into low range occasionally just to keep it working.
I'm just happy to have avoided a big bill.
In future I better drive less like a granny and get the ABS working more often!


That is a very rare fault for a Defender, I have not even had that on a last model Defender classic (2007 - 2016).
In all my years... I have had prolly 3 Defender TD5 with that fault.
BTW... a Discovery 2 ABS unit will work. We learnt that from Justin Cooper (tassie indy Land Rover mech)

Did anyone do a moisture test on the brake fluid? I suspect it might be well past due.

[DiscoMick]

I spoke too soon. The ABS and TC lights are back on.
I tried a couple of emergency stops to try to release the shuttle valve, but no good. Will try some more.
Meanwhile, I don't suppose anyone has an ABS/shuttle valve unit from a TD5 suitable for a 2009 Defender 2.4 lying around they would be willing to sell for a reasonable sum, do they?
BTW what would a brake fluid moisture reveal?

[Xtreme]

I spoke too soon. The ABS and TC lights are back on.
I tried a couple of emergency stops to try to release the shuttle valve, but no good. Will try some more.
Meanwhile, I don't suppose anyone has an ABS/shuttle valve unit from a TD5 suitable for a 2009 Defender 2.4 lying around they would be willing to sell for a reasonable sum, do they?
BTW what would a brake fluid moisture reveal?
A break down of the brake fluid by absorbing moisture thereby rendering the fluid less effective.
How long since you've replaced your brake fluid? IIRC the recommended interval is something like 18 months. .......................................... which reminds me that I need to do mine as it's been a few years since it was done. :bangin:

[Xtreme]

...............................
His comment was everything needs to be operated occasionally or it might stick. I guess it's like shifting into low range occasionally just to keep it working.
I'm just happy to have avoided a big bill.
In future I better drive less like a granny and get the ABS working more often!
I agree with your mechanic re operating everything occassionally.
My windscreen wipers stopped working recently, I could hear the relay clicking in but no movement at all from the motor or wiper blades.
I had a (dodgy) auto electrician check them and he advised that I needed a new wiper motor which would require removal of the complete dash assembly - a very time consuming jod at his $140/hr rate. So I began investigating it myself and found the motor OK but one of the 'wiper boxes' where the shaft passes through the bulkhead below the windscreen had siezed. An easy but time consuming job and saved myself the hundreds of $$$'s which the dodgy auto elect would have charged, even without replacing the motor.
I now operate them more frequently ................. and I'll also give the brakes a good jab frequently. :thumbsup:

[DiscoMick]

Just an update. The ABS and TC lights are back on and staying on despite several crash stops.
I've rung around several well-known places and received conflicting advice on if a Disco 2 ABS will work on a Puma.
I've also been told there is a refurbishment kit, but it has a high failure rate.
So I'm ordering a genuine Puma used unit which has been tested to ensure it works from Triumph Rover Spares in SA for $1150 - ouch! It's a similar price to a Disco 2 unit.
Still, it will keep the vehicle standard and it has to be fixed.
Apparently this is a rare failure so I hope it doesn't happen to you, but if it does, this information might help.

[DiscoMick]

ABS unit arrived from Triumph Rover Spares today, so that's good service. Find out next week if it works, as promised.

[DiscoMick]

So, the update is the replacement ABS unit showed a different fault when fitted, saying there was a driver's side rear open circuit.
However that fault does not show when the original ABS unit is connected, as it shows shuttle valve.
My mechanic says the sensor is showing live readings and he can't find a wiring fault. Fluid has been bled. He thinks the fault is in the ABS unit. He tried 3 code readers and got the same result each time.
I went back to Triumph Rover who, to their credit, have offered to send another ABS unit, while saying the first unit had been tested and worked. They will also include fitting instructions, although my mechanic reckons he did it properly. Good on Triumph Rover for doing the right thing.
I will return their first unit to them.
In the middle of all this, my mechanic hurt his shoulder.
So, it's all a bit frustrating, but that's life. I'm not here to blame anyone - it is what it is. Life wasn't meant to be greasy, as they say.
At least the front brakes have been done with new rotors and pads, and the propshafts tightened, but I still have a new engine mount to be fitted.
Life goes on.