Q for the pilots…..

[W&KO]

Which way would you take off on this strip…..??

Dirt strip
Slopes down east to west
15kn wind west to east

We watched

two planes take off with the wind going up hill and

One taking off into the wind down hill, this guy seems to get into the air much quicker than the others.

Or is it more complex….to me, only ever a passenger in plane taking off into the wind down hill makes sense

planes look similar, small tourist planes generally carrying 4 passengers

Some of the pilots are getting impatient as the airstrip needs repairs after recent rain and landing is difficult…..three decent washouts across the strip and small ruts following the wheel tracks.

[JDNSW]

The answer is - it all depends! On the slope, the wind, and the terrain beyond the end of the airstrip.

As a general rule, takeoff should always be into wind unless the wind is very light, or the available takeoff run adequate - the required length can be calculated knowing the tailwind. Generally avoid taking off downwind as it increases distance required and groundspeed at liftoff.

But.....takeoff uphill should always be avoided unless there is no other option and there is a headwind that is a good proportion of the takeoff speed. Or if the slope is very slight.

[W&KO]

As a general rule, takeoff should always be into wind unless the wind is very light, or the available takeoff run adequate - the required length can be calculated knowing the tailwind. Generally avoid taking off downwind as it increases distance required and groundspeed at liftoff.

.

That’s what we were thinking, one plane wouldn’t have even been thinking about the damaged parts of tie run way while the other two would have been thinking about it a whole lot more….

Although all three got up, up and away with ease…….

Dunno why we are touching up the runway.

Oh hangon, may for the bigger planes, think they call them a caravan……they look like they need more runway to land and take off.

[Ronski]

But.....takeoff uphill should always be avoided unless there is no other option and there is a headwind that is a good proportion of the takeoff speed. Or if the slope is very slight.

Agree, but as said, if runway is long enough and tailwind is light, taking off downwind is fine, many Pilots of small aircraft opt for this, after calculating.
The main reason would be, they are heading in that direction, therefore do not need to climb out to min. 500ft agl. and then turn around to continue on their way. Basically saving fuel.

The caravan is a Cessna with single engine jet turbine powered prop. up to 12-15 seats.

[W&KO]

[B]

Agree, but as said, if runway is long enough and tailwind is light, taking off downwind is fine, many Pilots of small aircraft opt for this, after calculating.
The main reason would be, they are heading in that direction, therefore do not need to climb out to min. 500ft agl. and then turn around to continue on their way. Basically saving fuel.

The caravan is a Cessna with single engine jet turbine powered prop. up to 12-15 seats.

Cheers…..

Yeah thought I heard right when they called it a caravan. It looked like it had storage underneath as well.

[JDNSW]

Some of them do - its an option.

[superquag]

MANY Moons ago, a bright spark tried to import a couple of Antonov AN-2's ("Annie") for tourist & freight use in the far away outback, but - CENSORED - or the - REDACTED - kicked up a massive tantrum.... and it never got off the ground.


The CAA offered another excuse...


But I reckon nearly double the range and payload was in there somewhere, along with cost / ruggedness and a lower price tag...

Pardon Our Interruption (https://www.aviationtrader.com.au/listings/for-sale/antonov/an-2/aircraft).



Pity, radials sound much more...'Aircrafty' than whining thingies

[Barraman]

It depends, but as a general rule:
1) TO and LAND into wind
2) TO downhill, LAND uphill (even if it means landing with a tailwind)

That said, the only time I have thought I was going to bend a aeroplane was landing uphill with a tailwind! [bawl]

[superquag]

It depends, but as a general rule:
1) TO and LAND into wind
2) TO downhill, LAND uphill (even if it means landing with a tailwind)

That said, the only time I have thought I was going to bend a aeroplane was landing uphill with a tailwind! [bawl]

Part of my training was up/down hill. May not be applicable to vintage trucks (C-172 etc) but the Jabiru preferred up-hill for landing, and downhill for take-off. - Bonus if wind is co-operative. Everything was about keeping the nosewheel un-molested.
(And taking off downhill is the only time a Jabby pilot will ever feel ...."acceleration" [bigwhistle])

[W&KO]

Two off these landed today, seemed happy with the repairs to the strip…..

Awesome to see a female pilot as well

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221007/81af13e629e44af79df04031999287e2.jpg

[austastar]

Awesome to see a female pilot as well

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221007/81af13e629e44af79df04031999287e2.jpg

Hi,
Don't need a penis to fly an aeroplane.

Cheers

[Shonky]

Don't need a penis to fly an aeroplane.


No, but flaps certainly help.

[BradC]

There's a joke about the stick shaker in here somewhere.

[Fourgearsticks]

Unless the slope is no more than slight ALWAYS take off downhill !!!

[RANDLOVER]

For some reason we hardly ever see contrails in Brisbane, but I can see them this morning and IIRC yesterday as well.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Depends on everything.

This airoprt is so steep that there are no options. And the go around situation is pretty sketchy to non existent.

Knowing my luck i'd open the throttles and get rolling and remember the control lock was on. [bigsmile]



https://youtu.be/1_0_BT10gEs?si=vZGxxuCbqVl-lJ_a

[JDNSW]

Probably the most interesting airfield I have been into (not as pilot in command) is Nuku in the Toricelli Mountains in PNG. As with all sloped airstrips, land uphill, takeoff downhill.

My trip in was in the RH seat of a Cessna 402. The airstrip is up the side of a valley, and the approach is over the ridge on the other side of the valley. There is a village on the crest of the ridge, but in the middle of it is a gap about 30m wide with no buildings.

As we approached, with wheels and flaps down, props full fine, at about 100kts. We cleared the ridge by perhaps twenty feet, and as soon as the ridge flashed under us, the pillot closed the throttles and started a steep sideslip to increase the angle of descent, straightening out about 500ft from the threshold, before making a perfect touchdown - and immediately gave both engines full throttle, only throttling back as we approached the parking spot. As he pointed out - if you let it stop, you need to get the station tractor to tow the plane to the top. And you park crossways, not relying on the brakes to hold on that slope.

I have flown myself into a number of sloping strips in PNG, but none quite like that one.

(One we did not use in the same area, was MaiMai. This strip was built in the 1930s, and we only used it for helicopters. It was short, as well as sloped.

[RANDLOVER]

It depends, but as a general rule:
1) TO and LAND into wind
2) TO downhill, LAND uphill (even if it means landing with a tailwind)

That said, the only time I have thought I was going to bend a aeroplane was landing uphill with a tailwind! [bawl]

I surmise this is as a headwind translates into a higher airspeed over the wings.

[JDNSW]

I surmise this is as a headwind translates into a higher airspeed over the wings.

Yes. The speed at which an aircraft becomes airborne at is a direct function of the velocity of air over the wings, which is the vector sum of the aircraft ground speed and the wind velocity. Also depends on air density, which mostly translates into elevation above sea level and temperature, and to a minor extent on barometric pressure at sea level and humidity. And, of course, the aircraft design, flap settings and loaded mass.

How much runway it takes to reach this takeoff speed depends in turn on the aircraft design, available engine power (which in turn depends on air density and sometimes temperature), runway surface, and runway slope.

As can be seen, significant calculations must be made by the pilot before every takeoff, especially if the runway length available is short enough that safe takeoff is uncertain.

In the case of takeoff from an aircraft carrier, the speed of the ship is also a significant factor, as is the ship's catapult.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Yes. The speed at which an aircraft becomes airborne at is a direct function of the velocity of air over the wings, which is the vector sum of the aircraft ground speed and the wind velocity. Also depends on air density, which mostly translates into elevation above sea level and temperature, and to a minor extent on barometric pressure at sea level and humidity. And, of course, the aircraft design, flap settings and loaded mass.

How much runway it takes to reach this takeoff speed depends in turn on the aircraft design, available engine power (which in turn depends on air density and sometimes temperature), runway surface, and runway slope.

As can be seen, significant calculations must be made by the pilot before every takeoff, especially if the runway length available is short enough that safe takeoff is uncertain.

In the case of takeoff from an aircraft carrier, the speed of the ship is also a significant factor, as is the ship's catapult.
In passenger jets they sometimes have to be conscious of wheel speeds as there are maximums. A heavy ship on a downwind takeoff might have to consider that.

[RANDLOVER]

Speaking of wind and planes I knew a guy in southern Africa that repaired aircraft radios and he said the pilots that flew into little mountain villages in Lesotho or Swaziland (I forget which) would look at the trees or grass not the rwindsocks as the locals knew the planes wouldn't land if the windsock was blowing so would put rocks in them!

[JDNSW]

In passenger jets they sometimes have to be conscious of wheel speeds as there are maximums. A heavy ship on a downwind takeoff might have to consider that.

Yes, there are other factors as well, I simplified a bit. There may be tyre speed limitations as well, but downwind takeoffs where the speed is high enough to be a concern would be very rare as there are very few runways long enough for them to even be thought of by aircraft heavy enough for it to be an issue.

Not really covered in my summary is the issue of the effect of air density on engine performance and propeller efficiency. Both turbine and piston engines have reduced maximum power at lower air densities (primarily due to altitude), and in some cases the power handling capability of a propeller will be limited by the propeller tips reaching Mach 1.0 - when power is used to produce what is essentially a sonic boom, but sounds like a loud howl. Not uncommon with high powered light aircraft taking off in the PNG highlands, where density altitude can be around 10,000ft. I have heard it at Mt Hagen, Mendi and Goroka.