No power in reverse at morning startup

[Briar]

This has only occurred since last regular service 2 weeks ago but suspect it’s just coincidental. At first startup in morning when reversing out of shed the vehicle has very little power. Even if I put accelerator right down there is only a slow crawl backwards. It’s like the ECU is cutting power when in reverse at first startup. Going into Drive, everything is normal. After driving only a few hundred metres if I stop and go into reverse everything is normal again. I have had all fluids replaced every 75,000km including auto with a service. This has been done twice since new. Last auto service was about 35,000km ago. Seeing indie tomorrow to get his suggestion. What are your thoughts on where to look. Thanks.

[Briar]

Spoke to indie’s apprentice today 3 or 4th year who did service two weeks back. He said he checked auto transmission oil as part of service. Fluid level full and nothing abnormal about oil. He was a a bit of a loss as to what might be cause.

[josh.huber]

Check the steering angle, if I'm backing up with the wheels turned its the same

[josh.huber]

Brake switch

[DiscoJeffster]

EGR sticking open after start up tests? I’d have expected codes for that though.

[veebs]

Just an old car? I mean, I’m pretty slow getting up in the morning too…

[PerthDisco]

Try doing the exact same manoeuvre with DSC off. Just like in sand it may be seeing some slip or irregularity and killing the power. You’ll know for sure in this test.

[Briar]

Try doing the exact same manoeuvre with DSC off. Just like in sand it may be seeing some slip or irregularity and killing the power. You’ll know for sure in this test.

Saw indie today. Seeing him early next week. Thanks for all suggestions, hopefully will get a few more. He is going to check for codes. He doesn't reckon it would be steering angle or brake switch as it would happen in Drive as well, not just reverse. Shouldn't be EGR, the ECU was flashed 18 months ago and they were shut off. Will try the DSC, interesting idea. Car didn't do it this morning so will keep on searching. Thanks all so far.

[Tombie]

Saw indie today. Seeing him early next week. Thanks for all suggestions, hopefully will get a few more. He is going to check for codes. He doesn't reckon it would be steering angle or brake switch as it would happen in Drive as well, not just reverse. Shouldn't be EGR, the ECU was flashed 18 months ago and they were shut off. Will try the DSC, interesting idea. Car didn't do it this morning so will keep on searching. Thanks all so far.

Did you attempt to “drive through the handbrake” or had you disengaged manually?

[Briar]

Did you attempt to “drive through the handbrake” or had you disengaged manually?

My shed and driveway is totally flat. I don't use the handbrake at all when parked at home. My thought here is the less I use the EPB the fewer activations so hopefully that will help with longevity. So handbrake was not engaged any time when this occurred.

[DiscoJeffster]

Saw indie today. Seeing him early next week. Thanks for all suggestions, hopefully will get a few more. He is going to check for codes. He doesn't reckon it would be steering angle or brake switch as it would happen in Drive as well, not just reverse. Shouldn't be EGR, the ECU was flashed 18 months ago and they were shut off. Will try the DSC, interesting idea. Car didn't do it this morning so will keep on searching. Thanks all so far.

You can’t shut off the EGR in your vehicle. You apply new map that tells them to stay closed while you’re driving. They will still run their self test action which is a full open and close at startup and shutdown, so while it’s very unlikely to be your issue, your remap doesn’t preclude them being a problem.

Anyhow, leave until last as you should get an error for them.

[Farnarkler]

Dealer can't find any problem. I have been reporting it for years, ever since I had the car. In my case, the problem happens only every now and again. Regardless of engine speed, traction slowly comes back and all is normal. No clucking, just smooth return of connection after a few seconds. Feels like low oil levels but, like you, they are normal. My latest suspicion is slow electronics. My Nav system sometimes takes up to a minute to boot up correctly. Dunno. I'll report back if I can diagnose it. Cheers.

[Graeme]

Spoke to indie’s apprentice today 3 or 4th year who did service two weeks back. He said he checked auto transmission oil as part of service. Fluid level full and nothing abnormal about oil. He was a a bit of a loss as to what might be cause.Presumably the oil temperature was in the correct range and the gear selector correct for checking the oil level. There have been instances of similar behaviour when reversing cold up slight inclines caused by the oil level being a little low.

[Briar]

Presumably the oil temperature was in the correct range and the gear selector correct for checking the oil level. There have been instances of similar behaviour when reversing cold up slight inclines caused by the oil level being a little low.

Don't know the answer to that Graeme, Do you know what the settings are meant to be. I'll follow up this aspect with Indie on Tuesday morning when he's having a squiz.

[Graeme]

ZF's level checking procedure.
181348

Edit: Sorry, I assumed 6-speed.

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

As you have an early 8-speed, it might be worth checking if there is a software update available for the TCM.

I know a guy with an early L405 Vogue, he couldn't reverse up driveways, no power at all, took it to a dealer & they "updated" something, after that it was fine.

I don't have any further details unfortunately, but that's what he told me.

[Briar]

As you have an early 8-speed, it might be worth checking if there is a software update available for the TCM.

I know a guy with an early L405 Vogue, he couldn't reverse up driveways, no power at all, took it to a dealer & they "updated" something, after that it was fine.

I don't have any further details unfortunately, but that's what he told me.

Will follow up on that aspect as well. The more suggestions the better. Yes Graeme, 8 speed.

PerthDisco
Didn't do the sluggish reverse yesterday morning but did do it this morning. So I tried your suggestion, I turned off DSC. It didn't make any difference. Stayed sluggish. It's not that the engine revs higher but I don't go anywhere. The engine just refuses to rev up, just like the ECU is limiting power. After about a minute, all returns to normal and it's been fine all day having to do multiple trips to tip towing trailer.

[Graeme]

Try pushing the brake pedal a few times before trying to move in case the brake light switch is initially sticking, or holding light brake pedal pressure to check if always sluggish.

[DiscoJeffster]

Try pushing the brake pedal a few times before trying to move in case the brake light switch is initially sticking, or holding light brake pedal pressure to check if always sluggish.

Yeah if it’s not the gearbox program, it does feel like the brake light switch issue

[maxperformance]

I haven't had your issue, however this symptom is quite similar to one of the issue we have had with our customers cars (especially European cars) so might be my story can give you some ideas.

You know that we fit our headunit infotainment and High-End Full HD Digital reverse camera to our customers' cars. And with many European cars (some with Asian or American cars too) there is one similar issue:

1- Symptom:
Turn on the car and reverse immediately. Then:
- The camera might not show up intermittently.
- or the car will not show up Dynamic Steering Wheel Guideline on the screen
- or the car has flashing screen with less colour or less details than normal on the reverse camera screen

2- Explanation and Solution:
- in the old cars, this would be the problem of low Voltage to the reverse power (only about 10.5V+ at that moment). This is purely because of their car setup and power going through the reverse lights. Nothing was related to the computers because that was not with computers. It was mainly because of alternator, or just the way the car was designed for, not much we could do. Just wait a few seconds then power went through up to more than 12.5V+ then it would be fine, or install a separate wiring with relay directly from the front battery to the back and it would help.

- in the European cars (from ~2003 - present) , this is purely because of the Computers setup in the car, related to CANBUS and other parts. The delay or lost signal or interference signal was because of not enough time to communicate between modules in the car and the new setup and so on (wrong signal communication). In this case solution was trying to work around the CANBUS and Computers setup, rewire and adding different modules to stabilize the power and signal. Using deep scan with high level scanner to assist the process.

In your case, even though it is not directly about Computer signal and reverse camera power signal but your car reverse power is controlled by all CANBUS computers for reverse (not mechanically control as the old rig, so oil or fluids would not be the reason from your description as you can reverse the car normal soon after a while of drive), so my recommendation is you better have a real professional scanner and a LR specialist to have a deep scan first to diagnose the root causes, before you should apply any solutions.

[Briar]

I haven't had your issue, however this symptom is quite similar to one of the issue we have had with our customers cars (especially European cars) so might be my story can give you some ideas.

You know that we fit our headunit infotainment and High-End Full HD Digital reverse camera to our customers' cars. And with many European cars (some with Asian or American cars too) there is one similar issue:

1- Symptom:
Turn on the car and reverse immediately. Then:
- The camera might not show up intermittently.
- or the car will not show up Dynamic Steering Wheel Guideline on the screen
- or the car has flashing screen with less colour or less details than normal on the reverse camera screen

2- Explanation and Solution:
- in the old cars, this would be the problem of low Voltage to the reverse power (only about 10.5V+ at that moment). This is purely because of their car setup and power going through the reverse lights. Nothing was related to the computers because that was not with computers. It was mainly because of alternator, or just the way the car was designed for, not much we could do. Just wait a few seconds then power went through up to more than 12.5V+ then it would be fine, or install a separate wiring with relay directly from the front battery to the back and it would help.

- in the European cars (from ~2003 - present) , this is purely because of the Computers setup in the car, related to CANBUS and other parts. The delay or lost signal or interference signal was because of not enough time to communicate between modules in the car and the new setup and so on (wrong signal communication). In this case solution was trying to work around the CANBUS and Computers setup, rewire and adding different modules to stabilize the power and signal. Using deep scan with high level scanner to assist the process.

In your case, even though it is not directly about Computer signal and reverse camera power signal but your car reverse power is controlled by all CANBUS computers for reverse (not mechanically control as the old rig, so oil or fluids would not be the reason from your description as you can reverse the car normal soon after a while of drive), so my recommendation is you better have a real professional scanner and a LR specialist to have a deep scan first to diagnose the root causes, before you should apply any solutions.

Thanks James. Interesting idea. I'll mention it to Indie. I have been getting a lot of the "Low Battery" messages when I open the car after a few days. I haven't correlated the low battery message with the sluggish reverse at startup. I did have the main battery and Traxide (Optima d34) both checked at sparky for a load test and both are good (supposedly), so I don't know why I keep getting the low battery message after a few days of non use. After a lot of driving yesterday to tip multiple times, this morning there was no low batt message and also no issue with the reversing. I'll add it to the list to keep an eye on a mention it to Indie on Tues morning. Thanks. Will see what may (or may not) show up.

[maxperformance]

Thanks James. Interesting idea. I'll mention it to Indie. I have been getting a lot of the "Low Battery" messages when I open the car after a few days. I haven't correlated the low battery message with the sluggish reverse at startup. I did have the main battery and Traxide (Optima d34) both checked at sparky for a load test and both are good (supposedly), so I don't know why I keep getting the low battery message after a few days of non use. After a lot of driving yesterday to tip multiple times, this morning there was no low batt message and also no issue with the reversing. I'll add it to the list to keep an eye on a mention it to Indie on Tues morning. Thanks. Will see what may (or may not) show up.

This sounds, to me, related to the issue you have. Your car is very sensitive to low battery and it could upset many computer components with low power.

Your alternator might be good because it still could keep you going, but still need to test it to confirm.

However, your main battery needs to do load test independently. Main battery can crank and start your car does not mean it is in 100% healthy condition.

If your main battery is good, and alternator is good, then there is "something" in your car needs to be found that draining the batteries after a few days, or something faulty in the computer components that lead to "low battery warning". Generally, your car model if without any bad wiring/components that could drain batteries then it would last about 2 months parking on street without starting the engine and still could start it easily.

[Briar]

This sounds, to me, related to the issue you have. Your car is very sensitive to low battery and it could upset many computer components with low power.

Your alternator might be good because it still could keep you going, but still need to test it to confirm.

However, your main battery needs to do load test independently. Main battery can crank and start your car does not mean it is in 100% healthy condition.

If your main battery is good, and alternator is good, then there is "something" in your car needs to be found that draining the batteries after a few days, or something faulty in the computer components that lead to "low battery warning". Generally, your car model if without any bad wiring/components that could drain batteries then it would last about 2 months parking on street without starting the engine and still could start it easily.

Ahh, you've given me an idea. About 4 months back I started a thread about whether my Traxide system was playing up as my caravan batteries were not getting a proper charge when driving via the Victron Orion DCDC charger. After suspecting, the Orion unit or the Optima (D34 yellow top) battery for the Traxide system or the Traxide SC80 controller, I was managing on a month trip away with the van to SA and the Flinders. It was only when coming back near Yunta where I lost all power to everything connected to the Optima D34 battery, that I thought the Optima battery was the issue. Tim from Traxide suggested to me that it was more likely to be the SC80 circuit breaker. He allowed me to ring him, and talked me through how to by-pass the circuit breaker. This ended up putting lots of charge back into the D34. I later replaced the circuit breaker with a 50 amp Mega fuse.

My suspicion is that either there is a load coming off the D34 that I'm not aware of or the D34 is also still a problem and it continually is lowering the voltage on the main battery. Not enough to flatten the cranking battery as the Traxide SC80 disconnects in time. Tomorrow, I will totally disconnect the Optima D34 and all loads connected to it, so I'll be just back to a single battery for a week or so. Process of elimination. Thanks for the idea.

[josh.huber]

Check the steering angle is calibrated too, I went to back the trailer into the driveway with the steering wheel full lock yesterday and it sort of holds the brake as if to tell you the wheels are not Straight then off it goes

[LarsMW]

Hi
I have the same problem. 2012 8-speed.
Did you find any solution to the problem?