Does my oil pump need changing?

[Davetd5]

Hi Folks,
Just bought a D3 TDV6 SE with 206,000km. What an amazing difference from the D2a that served us for 14 years - smooth and powerful in comparison.
Getting a tune at TRS this week and taking time in checking over the basics.
My question is whether I need to change the oil pump? Its a 4/08 build, it had the timing belt done in 2018 at 166,000km so its done 40k since then, but there's no record whether the oil pump was done.
Is there a way to check if it has the upgraded pump without pulling it all apart? If in doubt I'll do it, but I'd like to know what I've got there first.
Thanks Dave

[loanrangie]

There is a way to ID the pump by the serial numbers on the casting, these are just visible on the left hand side in about the 10 o'clock position.

[PerthDisco]

I’d be 99% worried it was not changed and if not changed the old style break about 30-40k kms later. You’d very likely have the old style pump in that car from new.

In the most recent videos LR Time explain the pump serial numbers. You’d also see the pump was very shiny and clean still relative to the rest of the engine if it was changed.

You want to get onto this very fast.

Updating to the latest big rotor pump and 5-40W oil is a big lifesaving bonus for your engine for another 200k kms.

Do your oil cooler, valley coolant fitting and water pump and you’re fully done.

[Davetd5]

I took the fan cover and intake tube off and had a peek. Pump looks pretty old so I'll get onto that. I've read that the pump's cheaper from Ford?

[PerthDisco]

I took the fan cover and intake tube off and had a peek. Pump looks pretty old so I'll get onto that. I've read that the pump's cheaper from Ford?

Yes or UK - Advanced Factors or elsewhere. Needs a new genuine crank seal also.

There’s also the plastic coolant inlet fitting on the block passenger side needs replacement after this many years also, becomes brittle and leaks. A bugger to access. Original plastics after 10 years are done and dusted.

[Davetd5]

The water housing has been replaced with a billet alloy one, so winning on that one!

[scarry]

There is a way to ID the pump by the serial numbers on the casting, these are just visible on the left hand side in about the 10 o'clock position.

You can also tell by looking at the pump,the new style has more ribbing.

If you do a search on here you may find the thread and pics,i cant find them at the moment.

[PerthDisco]

You can also tell by looking at the pump,the new style has more ribbing.

If you do a search on here you may find the thread and pics,i cant find them at the moment.

Very hard to see the difference on the car with tensioner and belt on the car

[Davetd5]

I'm just going to change the oil pump and be done with it!

[loanrangie]

You can also tell by looking at the pump,the new style has more ribbing.

If you do a search on here you may find the thread and pics,i cant find them at the moment.

Not without removing the timing cover.

[DiscoDB]

As PerthDisco noted, the LR Time video from 3 weeks ago (Avoid Maintenance Backlog) shows how to confirm if you have an updated oil pump by viewing the pump version number, which can be seen without removing the timing cover.

You are looking for at least a 6600-AE version pump. If you see 6600-AC or AD don’t drive it until you replace it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221031/5e5adf8e4a5d568fe6b192dba9d3ecdc.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221031/b1fdb231b5b90539f851892e2c319d37.jpg

[PerthDisco]

View with timing cover on and all accessory pulleys removed.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221031/551ca5b25e393d84f6619759c50fe866.jpg

View with timing cover removed and tensioner and belt on

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221031/24ad6436ee77c5124d364de30611355c.jpg

With tensioner and belt removed

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221031/482088cc7e0652f0af78ea5fe86656f1.jpg

Note the AF genuine FoMoCo latest pump verified several times in writing is supplied with markings removed.

This is the gusset extra metal the early pump was missing you can see with tensioner and belt on.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221031/92f6311a237124f971151d690dc3c689.jpg

[Davetd5]

Thanks for that info. LR Time is gold! Well it turns out I have an AE on my pump.

[DiscoDB]

Thanks for that info. LR Time is gold! Well it turns out I have an AE on my pump.

Now that should mean you don’t need to worry about it failing catastrophically on you. 🤞

But the remaining checks now is to leave it parked up a few days and time how long it takes for the oil light to go off, plus also check it has the minimum oil pressure at idle and at 3000rpm when hot.

There were some early upgraded pumps that could drain oil faster when parked up as there was a cover plate that could come loose (PerthDisco would probably be able to correct me on this) and so they may struggle to achieve minimum pressure.

The latest version pump also has a larger (thicker) impeller which delivers more flow. PerthDisco has change the oil pump twice since new (with each timing belt change), and I intend to do the same with mine at my second timing belt change.

PerthDisco - did you compare the impeller thickness between the old and new pump fitted? What version pump was the one you removed?

[PerthDisco]

It’s very possible 4/08 build got the new one.

This pump on mine was changed in 2015 to the new model. It’s an AC.

I had not seen the LR Time video and did not check my latest one. It does turn off the oil light appreciably faster like in LR Time video now.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221031/879ff41fc6889c33e4307eca702001b8.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221031/56f05f9e68b6851c4f474ee6b8f1390f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221031/18211c6cf561553a6d4c23e3efdefaff.jpg

[DiscoDB]

It’s very possible 4/08 build got the new one.

This pump on mine was changed in 2015 to the new model. It’s an AC.


….and just for confusion, your removed AC version pump is reinforced at the critical point. I have seen pictures of both the AC and AD versions which did not have this reinforcement.

[PerthDisco]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221031/6dcabdd7f5546e5796b4ed7758c15225.jpg

This is the plate that ‘can’ come loose. It’s been a major problem on Subarus which run a similar design pump.

On the new pump these were all paint marked like a torque check

[Davetd5]

This is what I can see without taking the fan and belt off, so I assume I'm seeing the AE part of the number.
Can I assume that all AE's have the reinforcement?
It gives me a bit of time to check the oil pressure and order a new pump anyway.
Does anyone know what the actual part number is so I can order one from my friendly Ford dealer?

[DiscoDB]

Yes - that is the number you are looking for.

This link below is from Jefferson Ford in Victoria, but I would contact your local Ford dealer to see if they have in stock so you can look at and confirm what version pump it is. At the same time you can measure the impeller thickness and make sure it is the upgraded version.

The last of the JLR updates to the pump was for the 3.0TDV6 which Ford did not use in the Territory, so you just want to make sure the Ford stock is not old stock prior to the latest updates. It is the same pump, just depends on when the local dealer bought the stock - but you would expect they have the latest updated version.

Ford Oil Engine Pump Assembly For Territory Sz/Sz Mkii (https://www.jeffersonfordparts.com.au/ford-oil-engine-pump-assembly)

[Gravy]

If I have the misfortune to need this resource i would definitely be "Loctiting" those plate attachment fasteners based upon the content of previous posts.

Are there any definitive performance specs for the different version pumps? Be informative to have values for pressures and flows produced especially for the revised impeller model.

[RANDLOVER]

Yes - that is the number you are looking for.

This link below is from Jefferson Ford in Victoria, but I would contact your local Ford dealer to see if they have in stock so you can look at and confirm what version pump it is. At the same time you can measure the impeller thickness and make sure it is the upgraded version.

The last of the JLR updates to the pump was for the 3.0TDV6 which Ford did not use in the Territory, so you just want to make sure the Ford stock is not old stock prior to the latest updates. It is the same pump, just depends on when the local dealer bought the stock - but you would expect they have the latest updated version.

Ford Oil Engine Pump Assembly For Territory Sz/Sz Mkii (https://www.jeffersonfordparts.com.au/ford-oil-engine-pump-assembly)

I'd say the risk of old stock is low, as most dealers nowadays don't keep much more than consumables as stock, due to bean counters seeing parts on shelves as dead money.

[Gravy]

If I have the misfortune to need this resource i would definitely be "Loctiting" those plate attachment fasteners based upon the content of previous posts.

Are there any definitive performance specs for the different version pumps? Be informative to have values for pressures and flows produced especially for the revised impeller model.

Utube is my friend, its LR Time is the resource to provide this information. Also provides an explanation to stay clear of the Russian Version.

[fourteen8]

Hi Folks,
Just bought a D3 TDV6 SE with 206,000km. What an amazing difference from the D2a that served us for 14 years - smooth and powerful in comparison.
Getting a tune at TRS this week and taking time in checking over the basics.
My question is whether I need to change the oil pump? Its a 4/08 build, it had the timing belt done in 2018 at 166,000km so its done 40k since then, but there's no record whether the oil pump was done.
Is there a way to check if it has the upgraded pump without pulling it all apart? If in doubt I'll do it, but I'd like to know what I've got there first.
Thanks Dave

I had my timing belts changes when it was 156,000km but they didn't change the oil pump. Does it need to be replaced part of the timing belt change? what is the issue with the old oil pump? Sorry still new to D4. Thanks

[loanrangie]

I had my timing belts changes when it was 156,000km but they didn't change the oil pump. Does it need to be replaced part of the timing belt change? what is the issue with the old oil pump? Sorry still new to D4. Thanks

Not an issue on the D4.

[Discodicky]

I'd say the risk of old stock is low, as most dealers nowadays don't keep much more than consumables as stock, due to bean counters seeing parts on shelves as dead money.

Prior my retirement and when I was in the earthmoving industry, our Parts Dept would get notice of updated parts (say, an oil pump) and we'd be sent the new updated oil pump in the next fortnightly Stock Order from HO.

We'd have to destroy the superceded (oil pump) by damaging it so it was not possible to use it, forward relevant photographs of the destroyed oil pump back to Head Office Parts Manager and chuck it in the bin.

It also applied to "dead" stock such as an oil/air filter which had been sitting on the shelf for a year or two due to no further sales demand. We'd get the directive from HO and so punch a screwdriver through the filter, take a photo then turf it to the bin.

The photos were 'proof' to the Tax Man that the part/s had been written off in accordance to the Tax Dept's rules.

I wonder if that process is done in the Auto Industry. If so, then I guess one can purchase new parts in full confidence that they are the latest.

When I've read guys having repeat inlet manifold failures I've often wondered if they've been given the latest updated manifolds.....

[Davetd5]

Here's what my friendly parts guy said about a Territory oil pump. Part Number is listed as FO-4R8Z 6600A. Haven't opened the box yet to see if it has the thicker impellor but I assume so

Good morning Dave, See attached quote

There was a break point on the parts around 2014 so he has quoted the later options.

Have a look & see if this is the one you are looking for. If so, he can get ex melb in a day or so

181877

[loanrangie]

Here's what my friendly parts guy said about a Territory oil pump. Part Number is listed as FO-4R8Z 6600A. Haven't opened the box yet to see if it has the thicker impellor but I assume so

Good morning Dave, See attached quote

There was a break point on the parts around 2014 so he has quoted the later options.

Have a look & see if this is the one you are looking for. If so, he can get ex melb in a day or so

181877

Thats the part number i fitted in mine in 2020, $144 from the dealer.