The track ruts are getting too deep so 33" and flared guards to suit

[James NZ]

Hi all,
we recently had a public holiday so my son and I tacked on a few extra days. We had a great time, my son took lots of video footage so I'm expecting a great movie, but we did have one major problem. Along with many other countries we have been experiencing some extreme weather. The weather, and everybody else fitting what seems to be a minimum 35" tyre to their truck means we are struggling with the deep ruts on our 32's. My understanding is that we can fit 33's with a 2" lift and cut the guard and fit fender flares. I don't want to go over a 2" lift otherwise we have to get it certified and I think it will get very spendy very quickly. I intend to fit the Yokohama M/T G003 in 255/85R16 as being old school I like tall and narrow. Do I need to cut the guard as these are narrower than my currant 265's. Can anyone recommend some suitable fender flares?

Here's a couple of pictures. One of the ruts and one of our trucks. They both run 265/75R16 on a 2" lift, and both sport unfinished bumpers ;-). If anybodies interested I can see what photo's or video my son has and post that in the general section somewhere.

181626

181627

[Don 130]

You blokes will have to put a two coat seal on your tracks at that rate. You're wearing them out.
Don.

[Slunnie]

I read often that 2" and 33's is fine. I'll say now that they rubbed everywhere for me and my opinion is that it doesn't work. It rubs. We later did some more testing and even statically they rubbed, let alone boucing around on the tracks. If you can get 33's to fit with no rubbing, then I will go so far as to say that your suspension isn't working well at all.

[ramblingboy42]

I had similar situation on a track near the glasshouse mountains where I was locked into the wheel ruts which deepened as the track worsened until I was on the diffs and couldn't go back or forward .

Luckily I had aired down to 18 so inflated the tyres up to near 50 if I recall and took my hands off the wheel and reversed out until I could drive out of the ruts.

Unfortunately this is happening too often , we know who to blame, no need to name , you see them every weekend.

Stick to your rims and tyres you have , choose a "chicken track"(I do all the time)and don't become one of "THEM"

[Tombie]

Exactly. You’ll spend big on 33s. And then someone with 37s will tear it up more.
You’ll go 35s and still be just on par with them.

Law of diminishing returns.

[James NZ]

I agree with the opinions expressed about tracks being torn up. I remember when the old Firestone SAT in 7.50x16 was considered a big tyre when my first landy was shod with 6.50x16's. I've also taught my son to respect the track for future use as I was taught, and we always air down to minimise damage. I read on a web site once that because the landy has a smaller diff size than say the Nissan or Toyota, it comparatively speaking means the other makes need to be shod with the next tyre size up to get the diff clearance so the landy on 32"s and the other make on 33's.

So my thinking is that the difference between a 265/75R16 at 803mm dia. and a 255/85R16 at 841mm dia. might just make allow us to go further. The thing for me is that a lot of these tracks access old gold mining sites which I love to explore and old age has caught up and overtaking my knees so tramping is getting a bit harder! [bigsad]

I'll have to do a bit more thinking about this. Cheers for all the input.

[ozscott]

There are a few issues trying to keep up with the 34 plus brigade. A big one is that the vehicle becomes a dog on the road. Apart from gearing issues it is a lot of unsprung weight and braking and handling are all effected. I am not a fan. For me and the places I go I am not going over 32 (although each vehicle is different). Cheers

[Slunnie]

There are a few issues trying to keep up with the 34 plus brigade. A big one is that the vehicle becomes a dog on the road. Apart from gearing issues it is a lot of unsprung weight and braking and handling are all effected. I am not a fan. For me and the places I go I am not going over 32 (although each vehicle is different). Cheers

My experiences about being a dog on the road I think will has more to do with the type of tyre used rather than the size. Depending on how it is set up, the braking and handling can still be surprisingly really good, especially with ACE and a good set of brake pads. I'm pretty sure the industry found in testing that 2" lifts almost always handled better than standard 4WDs too (apart from the Hilux I think). I don't think there is a threshold where one size is good and the next size is bad. That said, we will always tinker and push the boundaries.

[ozscott]

My experiences about being a dog on the road I think will has more to do with the type of tyre used rather than the size. Depending on how it is set up, the braking and handling can still be surprisingly really good, especially with ACE and a good set of brake pads. I'm pretty sure the industry found in testing that 2" lifts almost always handled better than standard 4WDs too (apart from the Hilux I think). I don't think there is a threshold where one size is good and the next size is bad. That said, we will always tinker and push the boundaries.I take your point with the ACE Simon. Mine has a 2 inch lift and 31s, Bilsteins and a nicely mated set of Dobinson springs etc but (without ACE) as well set us as my suspension is and as good as the pads and rotors are, it doesn't brake or handle quite as sharply as when stock (much heavier LT 31s versus XPC 29.5 from memory) and sitting lower. I am used to it but every inch taller in lift over 2 and every inch bigger in tyres detracts (from a non ACE vehicle at least). I have driven even tallers Discos and some heavily modded 4wds and I have never been impressed when having to swerve or corner hard. I recognise that each to their own but for me I have a limit for the vehicles I have owned. I don't mind people chewing up tracks in parts running 34 plus tyres as there are always good tracks available that don't appeal to such drivers (normally) and also chicken tracks around such things. Cheers

[Slunnie]

I take your point with the ACE Simon. Mine has a 2 inch lift and 31s, Bilsteins and a nicely mated set of Dobinson springs etc but (without ACE) as well set us as my suspension is and as good as the pads and rotors are, it doesn't brake or handle quite as sharply as when stock (much heavier LT 31s versus XPC 29.5 from memory) and sitting lower. I am used to it but every inch taller in lift over 2 and every inch bigger in tyres detracts (from a non ACE vehicle at least). I have driven even tallers Discos and some heavily modded 4wds and I have never been impressed when having to swerve or corner hard. I recognise that each to their own but for me I have a limit for the vehicles I have owned. I don't mind people chewing up tracks in parts running 34 plus tyres as there are always good tracks available that don't appeal to such drivers (normally) and also chicken tracks around such things. Cheers
I think pads can make a big difference but only to a point as we've both found. I'm trying to develop something a bit better over the next year or so, but as LR have also found, at the end of the day to do it properly it needs bigger rotors amongst other things which then means bigger wheels and tyres. It's potentially a bit of a catch 22 cycle.

[PhilipA]

Methinks that this is a bit of wishful thinking. (or maybe evidence to show SWMBO when wanting to spend)

A Toyota or Nissan have centre diffs on the rear while LRS have both diffs offset.

The clearance of the rear diff of either is MUCH lower than a LR, So just keep to the right a bit and you should be good. I know on on RRC the diff was in line with the bonnet crease. Not sure if same on D2.
Either that or there must be a lot of Toyonissans destroying rear diffs or getting stuck.
Regards PhilipA

[lewy]

Well i am going to put my Karen hat on and say that any tyre over standard size should be banned,as people have stated the bigger the tyre the more damage to tracks the more damage to tracks the bigger tyre needed, gone are the days as the original poster said that you could take the fam out in a standard 4wd because of the insistence of the "modern" 4wd' that they can just go out and destroy tracks because they can get there with their big tyres and 4" lifts.I will just sit back now i have had my say.

[RANDLOVER]

Portal axles?

[admiralranga]

Well i am going to put my Karen hat on and say that any tyre over standard size should be banned.

33" is standard for a 70 series or patrol, we'd still have this problem when your disco is running 29's.

[Slunnie]

Well i am going to put my Karen hat on and say that any tyre over standard size should be banned,as people have stated the bigger the tyre the more damage to tracks the more damage to tracks the bigger tyre needed, gone are the days as the original poster said that you could take the fam out in a standard 4wd because of the insistence of the "modern" 4wd' that they can just go out and destroy tracks because they can get there with their big tyres and 4" lifts.I will just sit back now i have had my say.

What I like about big tyres and lift, is that I don't end up getting stuck in all of track damage caused by standard 4WDs and I don't add to the track damage either as I've got articulation and traction that allows me to just drive through without the drama.

This is Lithgow from years ago... this isn't the 4WD wearing the track into what it is today, this one idled through without destroying it.

http://www.slunnie.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/Overlander%201205%20ZigZag/P1010118.JPG

[RRT]

What I like about big tyres and lift, is that I don't end up getting stuck in all of track damage caused by standard 4WDs and I don't add to the track damage either as I've got articulation and traction that allows me to just drive through without the drama.

This is Lithgow from years ago... this isn't the 4WD wearing the track into what it is today, this one idled through without destroying it.



As a case in point, watching youtube with the 4wd shows which in the guise of a 'good' 4wd show sit and spin their wheels for effect, well the track managers have the evidence and should charge them for neglect and damage. Stopped watching them for this reason. Would hope and almost assuredly believe, that the good people on here are doing the right thing and minimizing their impact on the tracks.

[Slunnie]

As a case in point, watching youtube with the 4wd shows which in the guise of a 'good' 4wd show sit and spin their wheels for effect, well the track managers have the evidence and should charge them for neglect and damage. Stopped watching them for this reason. Would hope and almost assuredly believe, that the good people on here are doing the right thing and minimizing their impact on the tracks.

Yep, the driver is a factor too.

[Kaaaiju]

Yeah in the same boat in vic, that's why i went 35s treps and bead locks, makes harder tracks much more do-able

[lewy]

What I like about big tyres and lift, is that I don't end up getting stuck in all of track damage caused by standard 4WDs and I don't add to the track damage either as I've got articulation and traction that allows me to just drive through without the drama.

This is Lithgow from years ago... this isn't the 4WD wearing the track into what it is today, this one idled through without destroying it.

http://www.slunnie.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/Overlander%201205%20ZigZag/P1010118.JPG I used to maintain a lot of those track years ago for the forestry.Most damage was caused by people using the tracks in the rain,nothing like leaving a beautifully dozed and graded fire trail on Friday to return Monday to a set of wheel tracks straight through the drains.did you ever get down the bottom of the Wolgan,that was a fun track.

[Slunnie]

I used to maintain a lot of those track years ago for the forestry.Most damage was caused by people using the tracks in the rain,nothing like leaving a beautifully dozed and graded fire trail on Friday to return Monday to a set of wheel tracks straight through the drains.did you ever get down the bottom of the Wolgan,that was a fun track.
OMG that must have caused your head to explode!

Was that the track across to the Gardens of Stone? I had been through that way, also via Spanish Steps. It is a great area, thats for sure!

[lewy]

OMG that must have caused your head to explode!

Was that the track across to the Gardens of Stone? I had been through that way, also via Spanish Steps. It is a great area, thats for sure! all those fire trails when they were forestry commission we used to maintain to a standard that you could drive an izuzu fire truck over them,We had 2.4 hilux and later the 2.8 all standard trim used to travel all of these with no problems.all the trails from basically newnes junction to capertee best job i ever had,when the national parks took over they closed most of them and put gates on a lot of others.The wolgan track was below the pub the track was a dead end 29km below the pub,I beleive it is closed below the camp ground now.