Fuel Pressure Challenge 2010 D4 2.7

[Morris]

Hi all. I’m new to this, but am desperately seeking advice. Sorry for the long-winded post.

I purchased a 2010 D4 2.7 EU4 166000km privately in April from Gold Coast Qld to do an outback trip. Had a pre-purchase inspection and found a few things, which I had sorted. No problems. The independent who worked on it in Brisbane put around 160ks on it after the work, and had no problems.

Driving it home in southern NSW from Qld, at Coffs Harbour on freeway with cruise control,the restricted performance warning came on, and then transmission fault as well. Turned engine off and restarted, and as I’ve read in other threads, it cleared. No problem for the rest of the trip.

I had the vehicle looked at with a local independent LR specialist (who has a fantastic reputation), and he suspected low fuel pressure and at this stage to add a fuel cleaner and see how it goes. I drove it every day leading up to our trip with no further faults.

End of May heading out on our adventure, 160ks into trip, the same fault presented itself. Cruising between 90kph - 110kph around 2000 – 3000rpm triggers the restricted performance, then the transmission fault. I believe the transmission fault is a cascading fault. The car came with a Gap iiD and fault code identified as P0087-00 - Fuel rail/system pressure too low.

Towed back to the workshop. My indi suggested a sequence of repairs starting with low dollar fixes which included, new fuel filter, overlay wiring between HPFP and ECU. Checked earths. No Luck. ECU reprogram. No luck. Next decided to replace the HPFP. (at the time, I couldn’t get a new genuine LR HPFP pump and didn’t want to use a reman pump, so was able to source a new Ford Territory lion engine pump quickly, which I believe is identical). Drained the fuel tank, (incl long range auxiliary tank) and fitted another new fuel filter again. Still no Luck.

What I noticed after all these fixes, was that once reaching the rpm and speed it would only take a few klms for the problem to show up again and more frequently. I read in thread that once these problems start that the frequency increases.

Next we fitted a new ECU. After fitting the ECU it was great for a day or so with some freeway driving. I thought that we had fixed it, then whilst slowing down for some traffic lights, the restricted performance warning came on. Funnily no transmission fault this time and no drop in performance even though the red icon was still displayed. Fault code identified P0183-17, Fuel temperature sensor A circuit high input.

The next day I cleared the code, and travelled around 30ks freeway driving and again the restricted performance and trans fault presented. Fault code P2290-00 Injector control pressure too low and P0183-17 Fuel temperature sensor A circuit high input.

Drove the car back to indi, reset fault codes. Suggested trying a fuel rail pressure sensor, but unfortunately can’t buy that separately from the fuel rail. I sourced and fitted a Goss aftermarket sensor. No luck. Reset fault codes. Went for a drive and put a bit of load on a slight uphill and faulted with P2290-00 and P0183-17. Indi doesn’t feel confident with the Goss fuel pressure switch so we have ordered a new fuel rail, and we’ll just switch the switches over sometime this week.

One thing I did notice recently is that after I reset faults by turning the engine off, when it faulted (5 times over about 20kms), previously the restricted performance exclamation light would stay on after pressing OK. This time around, the light hasn’t stayed on.

Yesterday I plugged the Gap tool in to see what the fuel rail pressure indicated at point of faulting and it read 129990.0kPa which converts to 1299bars. This was under acceleration around 3000rpm. There was one point earlier that I saw 174650kPa, 1746.5bars, but not under heavy acceleration.

I'm struggling to understand this all. I’ve spent so much money and time on this car so far, and still haven’t enjoyed it. I feel I’m in a rabbit hole and can’t find my way out. Very frustrating. Did I buy a dud or just unlucky with timing? The car drives very well if I keep it around 2000rpm. I’ve read threads with alternator, battery and brake light issues (haven't gone down these tracks). I’m now at my wits end.

So here I am seeking any help/advice that may be different from the other threads, even a little, as I’ve pretty much done everything suggested in those threads. The independent LR specialist I’m using is great and helping out. Any suggestions please?

[BradC]

Woah, wall of text.

I don't think I read in there any diagnostics on the low pressure pump. Have you checked the delivery and flow of the low pressure fuel system? When I was diagnosing my P2290-00 and P0087-00 faults I cable-tied a gauge to the windscreen wiper and drove around until it faulted to rule out insufficient fuel to the HPFP. Sounds like yours is going out under load, and that'd be the first place I'd look.

And yes, a VDO pump for a "Lion upgrade" (EU4 2.7) is the same whether it's LR or Ford. I bought a VDO locally.

[d2dave]

I would suggest to the OP that he enlarges the text and paragraphs it.

Did my head in after reading 2 lines, so did not read any more.

[Morris]

Thanks for your advice Dave. I've adjusted text accordingly. I'm new to the Aulro and forum. Can only get better.

[Morris]

Thanks Brad for your advice. I don't think we've discussed LPFP. I'll check that out with him. I've seen it mentioned in other threads, but would expected the it had been considered.

Re under load issue. I'm not sure, but could be. It presents itself both under load/acceleration and freeway cruising.

Thanks

[BradC]

When ours went the predominant symptom was a very mild acceleration at freeway cruise. Think cruise control on and the freeway takes a very slight upward gradient.

I could watch it happen on the IID. The ECU would call for more fuel and command the PCV open a bit more, the pressure wouldn't increase, so it'd ask the valve to open further.. and so on. If I was watching for it and not on cruise I could get off the throttle and then stamp on the pedal which would cause the valve to close then re-open and it would un-stick. Really obvious if you graph. Check the graph here : 08 D3 TDV6 P117D-00 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/262242-08-d3-tdv6-p117d-00-a-post2850736.html#post2850736)

When it did happen, I found I had a couple of seconds from the first "bong" to the cascade failures, so at first bong I'd turn the key off, then back on again. That'd reset the ECU before the downstream units (TCM, Park Brake, Suspension) had time to register faults.

One run to Margaret River and back it probably happened ~90 times each way, which is when I finally bit the bullet to replace the pump. You've already replaced the HPFP with a new one, so it's not very likely it is that.

[Morris]

Brad.

Did you eventually solve the problem?

I've attached my Gap Tool mapping from yesterday. I'm relatively new to all this. It's apparent that after looking at your map I need to add some more criteria i.e fuel rail temp, Volume control valve, etc. I'll have another go tomorrow.

Looking at my map you can see where I accelerated around 561 requesting more fuel, then the fuel pressure dropped just after 564, and spiralled down from there. From 557 I was just cruising and from 559 I slowed down to allow a truck in front of me get ahead to give me space so that I could accelerate up to it.

Brad, again thank you for taking interest in this.

182000

[BradC]

G'day Morris,

Yes, I solved the problem by replacing the HPFP. Having said that, my symptoms were very specific and I spent months diagnosing until I had a reproducible test case that definitively pointed at the PCV in the HPFP.

In your case given you've put a brand new genuine HPFP in I'd be more inclined to look at the fuel delivery to the HPFP, but that's only because your first post didn't mention it had been examined.

[Morris]

Well at least you had luck.

I'm investigating the LPFP and I'll let you know how it all works out. So frustrating. It seems the only way to fix these faults is to throw parts at them, which doesn't seem right to me. Anyway, back into the rabbit hole we go.

On parts, who have you found to be a good and reasonably price LR parts supplier?

Thanks Brad.

[BradC]

Well at least you had luck.

Oh there was no luck involved. I spent months doing the diagnostics. If I were to charge for my time it'd have been cheaper to replace every single element of the fuel system.
Having said that, if I had taken it to a mechanic, the first part out of the canon would have been the HPFP, so I'd have won on the first go anyway.


I'm investigating the LPFP and I'll let you know how it all works out. So frustrating. It seems the only way to fix these faults is to throw parts at them, which doesn't seem right to me. Anyway, back into the rabbit hole we go.

On parts, who have you found to be a good and reasonably price LR parts supplier?

If I need it *now* I call around, but if I can wait a couple of days I usually buy from LRDirect in the UK.

With the HPFP I bought a rail pressure sensor on-line (which I didn't use). I bought a belt kit and bolts from the UK, the pump itself from United Fuel Injection locally and the high pressure pipes and block seals for the oil sep from my local indy. Bits from all over the place.

The HPFP has a rotary vane feed pump, and provided its primed it'll suck fuel from the tank even if the low pressure pump isn't running. It'll crap out under load though and its posited that cavitation of the feed pump from insufficient supply pressure is one of the contributors to HPFP failure. I tested that as part of my diagnostics and drove around with the LPFP fuse out.

This is why anything from the tank, through the low pressure pump, filter and high pressure pump can cause those fault codes.

This is absolutely worth a read : DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Robbie's Guide To The Low Pressure Fuel System (https://disco3.co.uk/forum/robbies-guide-low-pressure-fuel-system-130062.html)

My pump is not to spec (lazy, old, worn, whatever...), but it retains positive pressure under most conditions and hasn't caused an issue.

[Morris]

Hi Brad.

You've been very helpful. Thank you.

I checked with my guy today and he said that one of the first things he does is check the LPFP, which he said in my case that it was well within all the required specs, so thats good. So I'll give the fuel rail pressure sensor a go and hopefully resolves the problem and I can start enjoying the car as well as get my wife off my back.

Thanks again.

[Morris]

So I thought I would give an update on my plight to resolve P2290-00 Injector control fuel pressure too low. Since my last post I have had LPFP tested and all ok. Replace the fuel rail pressure sensor as well as all 6 injectors.

Picked up the car today and about 2ks Restricted Performance and Tran Fault showed up. Turned the engine off and reset. Drove straight back to the workshop and same fault code presented itself. P2290-00 Injector control fuel pressure too low.

So far I've replaced Fuel filter (several times). HPFP. ECU. Fuel rail pressure sensor. 6 injectors. Also overlaid wiring to the fuel pump.

I'm now completely stressed and frustrated. Does anyone have any thoughts please? I'm desperate.

Thanks

[DiscoJeffster]

So I thought I would give an update on my plight to resolve P2290-00 Injector control fuel pressure too low. Since my last post I have had LPFP tested and all ok. Replace the fuel rail pressure sensor as well as all 6 injectors.

Picked up the car today and about 2ks Restricted Performance and Tran Fault showed up. Turned the engine off and reset. Drove straight back to the workshop and same fault code presented itself. P2290-00 Injector control fuel pressure too low.

So far I've replaced Fuel filter (several times). HPFP. ECU. Fuel rail pressure sensor. 6 injectors. Also overlaid wiring to the fuel pump.

I'm now completely stressed and frustrated. Does anyone have any thoughts please? I'm desperate.

Thanks

I guess one of the assumptions that’s not always valid is that the new parts are actually good. I suspect you still have a dud HPFP despite its replacement.

[BradC]

I guess one of the assumptions that’s not always valid is that the new parts are actually good. I suspect you still have a dud HPFP despite its replacement.

I recall that happened to Bulletman with a "known good but second hand HPFP" (I have his original one here awaiting a teardown along side mine). I note that Morris said he used a new Ford Terry pump, so it was a brand new pump anyway and the part numbers cross-referenced.

The only other thing I recall ever being mentioned is the return line from the filter to the tank which has a restrictor in it that can come loose, but that would cause noticeably low fuel pressure at the schraeder and the low pressure system would fail testing.

Given you've replaced practically everything else, as inconceivable (yes I keep using that word, and yes I think it means what I think it means) as it seems I'd concur with Jeff.
I see the graph of fuel pressure, but have you managed to graph the fuel pressure against the PCV and VCV requested positions when the fault occurs? If it's a sticky valve it's absolutely obvious in the data.

[Morris]

Thank you for your responses. Yes you are right Brad it is a new Ford Territory pump, but I believe the only difference is the branding.

So I dropped the car back to the mechanic and he took the car for a long drive monitoring the fuel pressures and injectors and the cat didn't fault. Everything was fine according to his diagnostic instrument.

I collected the car and about 500m down the road at low speed, 40-60kph, low rpm it faulted. I pulled over and restarted. The car reset itself, then I couldn't reproduce the problem. I drove it low speed & low rpm. Drove it like I stole it. Stop go under harsh acceleration. Nothing. Clocked about 45kls. So now it appears it's doing the opposite. Faulting on low speed low rpm and not under rpm load.

I've parked it for the night and try again in to morning with my gap tool connected. See what happens. Is it possible the fuel system including the ECU is resetting itself after the new injectors. The car goes like a bullet.

I'm really lost now.

Thanks

[DiscoJeffster]

Is it possible the fuel system including the ECU is resetting itself after the new injectors.



No

[RANDLOVER]

I'd check that someone hasn't fitted a 2nd fuel filter/pre-filter and not told you or recorded it in the manual or service book, although that would show up as fuel starvation under full throttle, or look for a blocked, pinched or kinked fuel line.

Also the LP pump tests fine when there is no fault, but might be something intermittent, so not excessively worn but losing 12volt power, or seizing/binding?

[BradC]

Also the LP pump tests fine when there is no fault, but might be something intermittent, so not excessively worn but losing 12volt power, or seizing/binding?

That’s why I drove around with a fuel pressure gauge cable tied to the drivers side wiper arm. Not pretty, but absolutely definitive.

[Tins]

That’s why I drove around with a fuel pressure gauge cable tied to the drivers side wiper arm.

Good thing you don't live in Melbourne.

[Morris]

Thanks agin everyone. My wife is fed up with me and this car.

My mechanic assures me the LPFP is working correctly.

Took it out tonight and clocked up about 60ks of city driving and freeway driving. No fault. I'll give it another go tomorrow.

Thanks again everyone.

[Graeme]

A similar low pressure fault but also an excessive pressure fault can occur with the 4.4TDV8 in the L322, L494 and L405 which is caused by a poor contact in a connector in the circuit to the pressure sensor. Your sensor wiring might need to be checked back to the PCM but start with a critical check of the connector at the sensor.

[RANDLOVER]

That’s why I drove around with a fuel pressure gauge cable tied to the drivers side wiper arm. Not pretty, but absolutely definitive.


Good thing you don't live in Melbourne.

Tru dat, can't see the gauge with the rain, but also can't see the gauge with the wipers on as it's going too fast.

[BradC]

Good thing you don't live in Melbourne.

I did June to Dec in Melb back in 2020. Nice place, but if I wanted that sort of weather I'd move to Scotland. Same weather but better Scotch and a better availability of Disco parts.

[josh.huber]

A similar low pressure fault but also an excessive pressure fault can occur with the 4.4TDV8 in the L322, L494 and L405 which is caused by a poor contact in a connector in the circuit to the pressure sensor. Your sensor wiring might need to be checked back to the PCM but start with a critical check of the connector at the sensor.

Shake the wiring with it running and see if that causes it. Can be useful to log gap while doing that

[Tins]

I did June to Dec in Melb back in 2020. Nice place, but if I wanted that sort of weather I'd move to Scotland. Same weather but better Scotch and a better availability of Disco parts.

Now now, Edindurgh is further north than Moscow, and most of Scotland is further north than that. Melbourne never gets that cold... For a given definition of never.

Can't argue about the Scotch though.

[RANDLOVER]

Now now, Edindurgh is further north than Moscow, and most of Scotland is further north than that. Melbourne never gets that cold... For a given definition of never.

Can't argue about the Scotch though.

Scotland is warmed by the Gulf Stream otherwise it'd be 10-15 degrees colder.

How the ocean current that keeps Scotland warm could collapse – Dr Richard Dixon | The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/how-ocean-current-keeps-scotland-warm-could-collapse-dr-richard-dixon-1395248)

[DazzaTD5]

This is not really a criticism at what has been done or the mechanic...

Unfortunately once one starts shooting both barrels of the parts cannon you get so far off the original fault with potentially more variables then when you started.

This bit is a criticism...
*what? 6 injectors? changed because? .... thats more injectors on a 3.0 than I have ever changed in my life.
*the low pressure pump should be round 8 psi ? is it?
*the pressure sensor on the rail can be purchased separately, yes its a bit of a **** around to get the correct one, but cheaper than a complete rail.
*and a HPFP ....
*So after all these parts have been changed it still faults, zero progress then, except as already mentioned your mechanic has added a whole lot of potential variables.

items already mentioned by others...
*A blockage or more likely a kink or squashed line on EITHER the feed line or return line.
*potentially a electrical fault, i'd be pulling the battery out and going through all the plugs.
*Is the HPFP actually the correct one? sooooo the reason why I bring that up is, the OEM one really isnt that expensive and I cant image what? a Ford or otherwise is going to be that much cheaper. I supplied one to another workshop a few months ago. Only to go out to their workshop and find the fault was one of the plugs on the HPFP, again I'd be checking these plugs.

Sitting here, I have nothing clever to add
its a fuel supply or electrical continuity issue (which by the way would have been the start point)

P.S unbolt the fuse box next to the battery, look underneath it for any faulty plugs, wires, melty bits.

[shack]

once one starts shooting both barrels of the parts cannon

There is a DOUBLE BARREL parts cannon?

I'm a bit shook up at this revelation!

Surely a single barrel is problematic enough by itself.

[BradC]

There is a DOUBLE BARREL parts cannon?

With sufficient duct tape and cable ties, anything is possible. Recoil be damned.

[wizzle10]

Did you get anywhere with a solution to the issue?

I have a very similar problem.

Picked up a car from the auctions over east, got it back to Perth and got about 20km before it went into limp mode etc.

Took it to a highly recommended garage on this forum, they changed out the HPFP, got about 20km home and it all lit up again.

Decided to change the fuel filter, fuel sensor and brake light switch myself after reading this forum, still no luck.

Speaking to a friend back in the UK he said to get a multimeter remove the relay and test the pump, which i did, i can hear it running and it returns a reading of 3.1amps, not sure if this is the issue or not as i am being told to replace the LPFP.

Annoying but self inflicted after buying a car from auction i guess.

[Morris]

I feel your pain. At this stage all seems ok, but I'm still anxious when I drive the car. I still need to take it for a long drive.

I'm not sure what LPFP amps should be. I'm sure someone can shed some light here. I think the injectors sorted it out in the end. If you don't have a GAP Tool then I recommend you get one. This was a big help for me, along with other members suggestions.

I got caught in the double barrel parts bomb, so be careful of that. There appears to be so many variables that can cause the fault. Very frustrating.

I'll let the group know the outcome once I've put some decent k's on it.

Good luck.

[Morris]

I feel your pain. At this stage all seems ok, but I'm still anxious when I drive the car. I still need to take it for a long drive.

I'm not sure what LPFP amps should be. I'm sure someone can shed some light here. I think the injectors sorted it out in the end. If you don't have a GAP Tool then I recommend you get one. This was a big help for me, along with other members suggestions.

I got caught in the double barrel parts bomb, so be careful of that. There appears to be so many variables that can cause the fault. Very frustrating.

I'll let the group know the outcome once I've put some decent k's on it.

Good luck.

[wizzle10]

I feel your pain. At this stage all seems ok, but I'm still anxious when I drive the car. I still need to take it for a long drive.

I'm not sure what LPFP amps should be. I'm sure someone can shed some light here. I think the injectors sorted it out in the end. If you don't have a GAP Tool then I recommend you get one. This was a big help for me, along with other members suggestions.

I got caught in the double barrel parts bomb, so be careful of that. There appears to be so many variables that can cause the fault. Very frustrating.

I'll let the group know the outcome once I've put some decent k's on it.

Good luck.


I have a GAP tool, great bit of kit, unfortunately doesn't help out with the issue I've been facing, but i will get it in to a garage again over the coming weeks and hopefully get to enjoy the vehicle soon

[Morris]

Hi all.

I thought it would be good to give you an update on the fuel pressure outcome.

A week before Christmas I had all 6 injectors replaced. I sent my old ones for testing and they found 2 faulty injectors.

Since the injectors have been replaced, I've driven 2000ks of city, freeway and hilly country driving and so far the fuel pressure fault has no longer showed its ugly head. I did a quick trip to Batemans Bay on the weekend and all good. I gave it a good test on The Clyde Mountain on the way home.

Unfortunately today another fault developed. The dash lit up with all sorts of failures. Trans Failure. ABS Failure. Emergency Brake Failure. Lowered for Safety warning. Hand Brake. Just a crazy list. Connected my Gap tool and faults codes:



P1335-21 (28) Exhaust gas recirculation position sensor minimum stop performance - General signal failure.
P0571-61 (6C) Brake switch A circuit - Algorithm based failure - signal compare failure.


I dropped into my Indi and he said EGR valves are shot, which I understand is a common problem. Cleared fault codes and off I went. Fault hasn't shown up again.

Any thoughts around this?

Thanks again.

[veebs]

Hi all.

I thought it would be good to give you an update on the fuel pressure outcome.

A week before Christmas I had all 6 injectors replaced. I sent my old ones for testing and they found 2 faulty injectors.

Since the injectors have been replaced, I've driven 2000ks of city, freeway and hilly country driving and so far the fuel pressure fault has no longer showed its ugly head. I did a quick trip to Batemans Bay on the weekend and all good. I gave it a good test on The Clyde Mountain on the way home.

Unfortunately today another fault developed. The dash lit up with all sorts of failures. Trans Failure. ABS Failure. Emergency Brake Failure. Lowered for Safety warning. Hand Brake. Just a crazy list. Connected my Gap tool and faults codes:



P1335-21 (28) Exhaust gas recirculation position sensor minimum stop performance - General signal failure.
P0571-61 (6C) Brake switch A circuit - Algorithm based failure - signal compare failure.


I dropped into my Indi and he said EGR valves are shot, which I understand is a common problem. Cleared fault codes and off I went. Fault hasn't shown up again.

Any thoughts around this?

Thanks again.

If I was a betting man, I’d say the brake switch is the problem.

That, or power - is your battery healthy?

[Graeme]

A brake switch fault will trigger all those ABS faults and the suspension ecu will lower to its safe (access) height.

[Morris]

Thanks for your responses.

I often left foot brake to keep the power on and was told that this could confuse the ECU and trigger the faults. The brake switch seems an easy job (I think) so worthwhile doing that anyway.

Battery. Not sure. I'll get it checked. I've had no problems with it so far.

I doubt the brake switch would trigger an EGR fault, so this is the concerning and costly one.

I'll repost in a new post with the relevant heading so as to avoid confusion with fuel issues. EGR Fault Code

Thanks again.

[DiscoDB]

Left foot braking is a definite no no - if it detects brake and throttle at same time it is known to throw faults as it assumes one of the conflicting signals is wrong and has failed.

[Graeme]

That issue was addressed a long time ago but perhaps some vehicles are still using old firmware.

The switches have 2 sets of contacts and if they don't switch simultaneously then a fault can be registered. I always carried a spare switch.

[veebs]

I didn't think it was possible to use the brake and throttle pedals at once - I tried to drive through the brake in reverse, and the car ignored the throttle input when my foot was on the brake.

May just be a reverse thing?

[Graeme]

I used to reverse my 3.0 D4 with a box trailer up a sharp slope to a load-out gate on a sheep shed with the brakes lightly applied to be able to jump on them quickly. Due to the slope the TC wouldn't engage enough without significant engine revs and when it did engage enough the D4 would lunge, hence the need to ride the brakes.

[veebs]

I used to reverse my 3.0 D4 with a box trailer up a sharp slope to a load-out gate on a sheep shed with the brakes lightly applied to be able to jump on them quickly. Due to the slope the TC wouldn't engage enough without significant engine revs and when it did engage enough the D4 would lunge, hence the need to ride the brakes.

Maybe there was a firmware update at some point - with the brakes touched on (enough to turn the lights on) the accelerator is completely ignored in my 3.0 D4. Were you in low range? maybe that changes things (I haven't tried), or possibly the trailer made a difference

[Graeme]

The firmware was kept up to date and low range would have been used. The trailer had LED globes but no load resistors - the trailer indicator didn't work with that trailer.
I recall that there was a firmware update quite early to address the issue. I used a Faultmate to keep firmware up to date, downloading the latest versions from the Blackbox site.

[veebs]

I haven’t heard of that site - I’ve used the gap process, though not for everything. If it ain’t broke…